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Games without manual? Collector's Edition without the actual game? wtf is going on...

It makes it easier for publishers to deal with multi plat games and stock issues if CE's don't sell well. Much easier creating 10k collector units for all 4 platforms and sell the game separately, physical or digital, than creating 2k units for each platform and having irate customers when the PS4 or switch version is way more popular than another platform.
 

Compbros

Member
Spoken like somebody who has never had an old PC game manual.

*old* being the operative word there. They used to have all types of backstory, character profiles, full color art, etc. But we get all that in game now minus the art and a lot of things have art books. We've lost the need for manuals.
 

Imbarkus

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
I can live without manuals.

This "Collector's Edition" malarky where you are collecting the online remnants of a code redemption as long as you have the access, etc... complete and utter bullshit.
 

Acerac

Banned
*old* being the operative word there. They used to have all types of backstory, character profiles, full color art, etc. But we get all that in game now minus the art and a lot of things have art books. We've lost the need for manuals.
That's not actually true, but if you wish to claim it is I won't stop you from doing so.
 

snap

Banned
Vote with your wallet, I absolutely love Life is Strange, but I won't buy LIS: Before the Storm because they're locking Max episode behind premium edition.

don't worry, it doesn't seem very good anyways.

also, that episode just also seems like they're reusing the young Max and young Chloe assets from the first game, so i wouldn't expect it to be particularly meaningful
 

Jaraghan

Member
Vote with your wallet, I absolutely love Life is Strange, but I won't buy LIS: Before the Storm because they're locking Max episode behind premium edition.
Wait, really? The fuck? Well guess I am not getting the game now. Loved the first season.
 

Koren

Member
Precisely, everything in a manual is learned/shown in-game. They've become unneeded.
They should ditch the booklet in CD albums, too, and put the lyrics and pictures in CD data area (as some of them already do)...

It's not a matter of usefulness, or you could go full digital...
 

Olengie

Member
If you're going to have a Collector's Edition, you should at least get a physical copy. Not sure about the Physical Copy, just make it CE exclusive like with the Arno Surge Plus CE. But that's what I think.

Would've been all over that Sonic Mania CE but the Digital Only Code just put me off
 

Acerac

Banned
No, I'm willing to be informed it I'm mistaken.
Fair enough, if you're willing to stand by your words I'd like to compare classic Sim manuals to the information available in the most recent games. Any classic v any modern title would be fine, from what I remember the amount of related reading (from poetry to documents about how the simulation reflects the real world) was extremely impressive, and certainly worth my time to read. This info is available in modern titles?

Perhaps there are some devs that still give sufficient info, but please do not act like the sheer depth that was available then is common now.
 

Compbros

Member
They should ditch the booklet in CD albums, too, and put the lyrics and pictures in CD data area (as some of them already do)...

It's not a matter of usefulness, or you could go full digital...

It's still useful to go physical for games because game sizes are huge. Regardless, that picture stuff is only useful if you're at the computer. If you pop it into your stereo you can't access those pics but your game can only be played on your game system so you always have access to your manual and such.
 

Imbarkus

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
i find it weird anyone would think Sonic mania would have a physical disc

Good games should have some way for you to keep and access them after all the authentication and download services have moved on.

10499302_556758064457293_882671795_n.jpg
 

Compbros

Member
Fair enough, if you're willing to stand by your words I'd like to compare classic Sim manuals to the information available in the most recent games. Any classic v any modern title would be fine, from what I remember the amount of related reading (from poetry to documents about how the simulation reflects the real world) was extremely impressive, and certainly worth my time to read. This info is available in modern titles?

Perhaps there are some devs that still give sufficient info, but please do not act like the sheer depth that was available then is common now.


More than likely not but I also have to ask was that the norm then? My heavy gaming started mid-90s and the games I got were always nice but far from what I'd call extrodinary. Then again I've never been a fan of Sim stuff so I've definitely missed anything they did.
 

Koren

Member
It's still useful to go physical for games because game sizes are huge. Regardless, that picture stuff is only useful if you're at the computer. If you pop it into your stereo you can't access those pics but your game can only be played on your game system so you always have access to your manual and such.
Fair enough, but I really don't think people like booklets in CD albums because it's "useful" or more convenient.

We're back at the start: people who like manuals in video games don't like them because they find controls in it.
 

Compbros

Member
Fair enough, but I really don't think people like booklets in CD albums because it's "useful" or more convenient.

We're back at the start: people who like manuals in video games don't like them because they find controls in it.

The thing is a lot of the stuff they found in manuals is in game with collectibles like codecs or journals or what have you telling stories you woulda saw in manuals. I'm not faulting anyone for preferring the manuals, I just don't think they're needed anymore.
 
More than likely not but I also have to ask was that the norm then? My heavy gaming started mid-90s and the games I got were always nice but far from what I'd call extrodinary. Then again I've never been a fan of Sim stuff so I've definitely missed anything they did.

PC strategy, simulation and RPG manuals ranged anywhere from substantial to enormous.
 

Compbros

Member
PC strategy, simulation and RPG manuals ranged anywhere from substantial to enormous.

Strategy is literally my least favorite genre, like I said I never liked the sim stuff, didn't get into RPGs until early-mid 2000s thanks to Dragoon/Legaia. So it's not hard to see why I missed stuff.
 

Samaritan

Member
Collector's editions without copies of the game inside of them seem like a really gross idea at first blush, but it's actually convenient in some instances if you think about it. Oftentimes big collector's editions aren't made for PC versions of games, so for PC players it's a nice alternative to having to buy two copies of the game essentially. It's also convenient if you want a digital copy of the game instead of physical.
 

sotojuan

Member
I always look back to manuals fondly and with nostalgia but then I realize I never open them either now or back then aside from a quick skim. If I need help with the game I go straight to GameFAQs.
 

Acerac

Banned
More than likely not but I also have to ask was that the norm then? My heavy gaming started mid-90s and the games I got were always nice but far from what I'd call extrodinary. Then again I've never been a fan of Sim stuff so I've definitely missed anything they did.

They were beyond the norm, but not in any way that would make them exceptional. It was just a damned good manual, one of many that existed at the time.

I follow when you say that much of the needed information is available in game, in depth lore about why gargoyles function the way they do isn't necessary to play Diablo. That said, I sure as fuck do appreciate the stories about enemies, the world, and how we have gotten to where we are as a primer for a game, and can say with confidence that this is an aspect of games that I loved, but hasn't been replaced.
The thing is a lot of the stuff they found in manuals is in game with collectibles like codecs or journals or what have you telling stories you woulda saw in manuals. I'm not faulting anyone for preferring the manuals, I just don't think they're needed anymore.

They're not NEEDED. A lot of stuff isn't necessarily required. That said it is something that many people enjoyed about video games that is no longer there, and it is fair to mourn the passing of.
 

v0rtikal

Member
my bad, but I never talked about the manual in relation to its usefulness but mainly because of the artwork included, brief descriptions of characters within the game, etc.
 

Compbros

Member
They were beyond the norm, but not in any way that would make them exceptional. It was just a damned good manual, one of many that existed at the time.

I follow when you say that much of the needed information is available in game, in depth lore about why gargoyles function the way they do isn't necessary to play Diablo. That said, I sure as fuck do appreciate the stories about enemies, the world, and how we have gotten to where we are as a primer for a game, and can say with confidence that this is an aspect of games that I loved, but hasn't been replaced.


They're not NEEDED. A lot of stuff isn't necessarily required. That said it is something that many people enjoyed about video games that is no longer there, and it is fair to mourn the passing of.


I definitely understand the primer for the game you're about to play, especially in this age of installs/downloads taking a bit it'd be nice to have that. I just personally don't see it as worth the paper/money to print. Maybe my perspective is skewed because I've only had a handful of lush manuals or maybe it's because I've never cared that much for them to begin with.


my bad, but I never talked about the manual in relation to its usefulness but mainly because of the artwork included, brief descriptions of characters within the game, etc.

Again, that all comes in the game now though. I can pop in MKX right now and see concept art, see descriptions of characters/the story, even just some dumb fun stuff. I see why people would like to have manuals though but to me it's not a point of contention where everything they provide minus having the stuff physically is provided for you.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
I think its nice that digital only games also gets collectors editions sometimes. The manuals back in the days were nice in several of cases, but its been a long time since i've really checked out any manuals.
 

dracula_x

Member
Manuals not needed anymore, games can explain controls or have tutorials themselves.

CE without a game just stupid though.

Disagree. Street Fighter V, for example:



sure, "very explained". I mean, what I'm suppose to do with that? Hit the pause button every time when I need to learn a new special move or combo? It's a very distracting and annoying. In this case, manual would be very helpful.

---

for OP – I think that thread can be useful → http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1090467
 

Petrae

Member
Manuals became victims of publisher cost-cutting, though publishers like to claim that it's "better for the environment" for optics reasons.

I used to always read manuals, cover to cover, when new games came with them. I liked reading about the characters, the backstory, and the little tips and tricks that were sprinkled in. When playing a game, I liked having the manual out in front of me to quickly check on play controls or how to pull off certain moves. I was always happy when publishers added maps or posters in the game package, too.

In-game manuals are a pain in the ass, and you can't read them unless your console is on. Internet resources are a better solution, though looking down at a small smartphone screen to try and decipher how to pull off certain moves can be a chore-- not to mention the extra time it takes to pull up the appropriate website and navigate to where you need to go.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Disagree. Street Fighter V, for example:





sure, "very explained". I mean, what I'm suppose to do with that? Hit the pause button every time when I need to learn a new special move or combo? It's a very distracting and annoying. In this case, manual would be very helpful.

---

for OP – I think that thread can be useful → http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1090467
Wouldnt it be more distracting and annoying reading the manual while playing (i.e not pausing the game)?
 

KiraXD

Member
Manuals not needed anymore, games can explain controls or have tutorials themselves.

CE without a game just stupid though.

Imagine how much money a dev could save by not developing an in-game tutorial and go back to manuals.

You remove the entire cost of developing pointless tutorial levels or intros.
 

snap

Banned
Disagree. Street Fighter V, for example:





sure, "very explained". I mean, what I'm suppose to do with that? Hit the pause button every time when I need to learn a new special move or combo? It's a very distracting and annoying. In this case, manual would be very helpful.

---

for OP – I think that thread can be useful → http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1090467

I think a better argument is why have a manual that requires nailing down gameplay mechanics and controls weeks out to get them printed in time if you can just adjust an online digital one and make it live on release date?
 

DesiacX

Member
For those of you who disagree with gameless CEs, can you explain to me why i should pay $250 for the Titanfall 2 CE (Amazon) and triple dip on the game as opposed to just buying the stuff (The helmet, in particular) without the game for $170 (Amazon)?

At the end of the day its all merchandise/junk, the only difference with the merch in CEs being that you get the game with it. In limited editions with prints that won't last a week past launch, if it even gets there, yeah a copy of the game should be included. But for ones by AAA developers that are gonna sit on shelves anyways? The option is only a good one.

Problem is that they price the CE as if the game was included, because it'll sit in shelves alongside CE *with* games. In theory, it's fine, but I still find it's nearly a scam when it's done like it is now.

Which games have done that?
 

hzsn724

Member
Yea this is getting ridiculous. I didn't buy the Sonic Mania CE because of this. Wanted to support the game so I bought it on Switch.

The only and last CE I bought like that was the Lara Croft and the Temple of Osiris CE and got just a case with a code in it. It's like why? Should truly make it for collectors with a limited printed disc/cart.
 

dracula_x

Member
So when reading the manual, you're getting your ass beaten in the game because you're paying attention the manual instead of on the screen :p

Training mode.

Also, in SFV to reach Command List menu you need:

1. press Options button
2. press Down button
3. press X

three steps.


And then you have like 5 sections within Command List menu, so you need to scroll every time when you open it.


In this case, printed manual would be much more convenient. So my answer to your question is still no.
 

BigEmil

Junior Member
They're just focusing on maximising their profits no matter how small

On top of your $60 game also they want to nickel and dime you on top with DLC/Microtransactions

They want all the money they can achieve
 

Nictel

Member
What are your thoughts? I really can't stand it anymore, it feels like we're approaching a 100% digital world.

100% digital is not an option as long as not everyone is 100% connected and data-cap free.

The underlying real problem is:

T18IA1S.gif


So many games require big patches that including the game is mute if you can't play it..
 

Compbros

Member
Training mode.

Also, in SFV to reach Command List menu you need:

1. press Options button
2. press Down button
3. press X

three steps.


And then you have like 5 sections within Command List menu, so you need to scroll every time when you open it.



In this case, printed manual would be much more convenient. So my answer to your question is still no.


How about SFV get better then. NRS games allow you to map moves to the screen so you can see what you want.

 
Gaming is still in its early stages compared to movies, music, and especially books. It is forming into what it was always destined to become once it became mainstream. Developers had to try hard to get into the mainstream and then once they did, they abandoned their supporters for new fans. This happens to everything that goes to mainstream.
 
Manuals not needed anymore, games can explain controls or have tutorials themselves.

I'd take a manual I can look at any time, learning things at my own pace, rather than be forced to sit through a poorly-designed tutorial that wastes an hour or two of my time before I can even begin playing the game I bought. And web manuals? If I'm remembering, the Persona 5 online manual wasn't even available yet at launch. Often games don't even have one, and if they do, it's the least amount of effort possible.

Also, well-done manuals can really enhance your immersion in the game, bringing its digital aesthetic into your physical space. The Homeworld manual is almost a work of art, and feels like a tactical manual that could have lived in-universe:
 

DesiacX

Member
Well, for example, you think this
we_happy_few_retail.jpg

has a value of $149?

I've seen collector editions with better stuff and a $60 game included for less than that.

The image is/was broken, but quoting got me this. The CE comes with a lamp, an alarm clock, the games soundtrack on vinyl, 3 posters, a game handbook, a mask bust (Can't tell if that's wearable or not), and stickers. I wouldn't spend $150 on it myself, but i can see how it got there, and agree that other CEs offer better value. However, If it had the game, it would be $200, and this particular one doesn't look like its going to have a large enough print to sit on the shelves next to the game.
 
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