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Messi is the GOAT
- Thread starter Perfect Blue
- Start date
Benjamin1981
Member
Dude has achieved nothing with his national team which disqualifies him from the goat discussion.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Not even like he didn't have the opportunity. He's just one of the mother of all chokers at that level.
Haunted
Member
To be fair, Argentina had the bad luck to always get matched up against a certain team...
2006: Germany (QF)
2010: Germany (QF)
2014: Germany (F)
RocknRola
Member
GOAT team would have to be either Brasil or Germany. IMO at least. I'd be happy with either taking the crown, per say.
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
It really isn't that hard to have discussions on who is the greatest footballer fo time.
It only becomes hard when people try to limit it to numbers.
It is why you have debates like Messi vs Ronaldo. You take away the numbers and it is clear who is the better player.
People think greatness comes down to numbers. Shit like Linekar and Inzaghi have 100s of goals to their names.
Greatness transcends numbers. It comes down to making those around you better than they are, changing the way the game is played, doing the impossible, and not just for years, but for decades.
It is why Totti is simply the greatest of all time. He took an irrelevant team and kept them near the top of Italian football for 25 years, all the while counting on one hand the amount of top players he had with him during his career. Totti changed the way the modern game is played. Fergie, Pep, and Spain all copied what he showed could be done in the strikerless formation. The guy is the most complete passer the game has seen. He was at the top of the game during the 90s, the 00s, and the 10s, singhandedly helping his team qualify for a CL(playoff) spot at the age of 39 when he had the best goal to minute ratio in the top leagues(They then fucked the playoffs because they didn't play him, ha)
Plus the guy helped win the World Cup when he risked his career to play at half fitness after coming back from a serious injury in only a few months.
Mario Götze must be the greatest German player to walk the earth then.
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...zil-or-have-we-just-become-numb-to-his-genius
He missed a free kick at the last minute of extra times of a long World Cup. Still he made Argentina reach finals. Germany was just a better team.
CheDominik
Member
(W.) Germany's 1974 team is probably the best team ever on paper. But for teams I have seen play I would have to say Spain during the 2008 EC. They were just amazing to watch.
Completely subjectivity is one way to engage in these discussions sure
Pelé has 3 WC, almost 1300 goals. First WC when he was 17. It will be hard for another player to achieve as much as Pelé during the whole carrer.
If you want to talk about 'moments', then yes Messi have seasons of pure awesomeness (as does CR7), but then many other players also (Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Romario, Zico just to name some Brazilian ones). Messi and CR7 just keep playing at the highest standard for 10 years now, which is impressive ofc, but they lack (Messi specially) international titles (with their national teams). CR got the Euro which is a good beginning, but cant compare it with the WC. Or with 3 WC...
I think a good starting point is to determine if Messi is better than Maradona.
If you want to talk about 'moments', then yes Messi have seasons of pure awesomeness (as does CR7), but then many other players also (Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Romario, Zico just to name some Brazilian ones). Messi and CR7 just keep playing at the highest standard for 10 years now, which is impressive ofc, but they lack (Messi specially) international titles (with their national teams). CR got the Euro which is a good beginning, but cant compare it with the WC. Or with 3 WC...
I think a good starting point is to determine if Messi is better than Maradona.
Hmmm, thinking Shanks might be onto something here.
Totti top of this era no question.
But put prime Maradona in that position and the results could have been the same or better no? Or Pele, etc.
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
Maradona and Pele could never agree on anything, except when it came to Totti. Both acknowledged him as the best in the world.
To be fair, Argentina had the bad luck to always get matched up against a certain team...
2006: Germany (QF)
2010: Germany (QF)
2014: Germany (F)
"Football is a simple game ; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans always win."
True, Maradona could well take Roma to titles etc..
But like I said, this era. I don't know if prime Pele would be the same in the current football landscape as in his time.
Is there documented evidence of this, it's interesting and not something I've seen (my knowledge of Italian football is limited and I don't confess to being all that up on my old interviews etc)
Not to take anything from Pele, but seriously. Football is tougher and more competitive than it's ever been. Legends from the past would have trouble keeping up.
Arguably it would have been easier for him and he would have been more protected. On the other hand he may have not handled the media/fame side of it as well. It's why it's a very difficult conversation to have
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
Maradona: http://www.espnfc.com/as-roma/story...francesco-totti-is-the-best-player-i-ever-saw
As for Pele, he said it back in 06 and I don't have a source that is worth posting.
Impressive, though Maradona wouldn't call himself the best would he
Like I said I haven't followed Italian football so that's my loss.
To be fair, Argentina had the bad luck to always get matched up against a certain team...
2006: Germany (QF)
2010: Germany (QF)
2014: Germany (F)
Same as Chile. Certain team screwed over them all the time...
Starts with B.
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
Impressive, though Maradona wouldn't call himself the best would he
Like I said I haven't followed Italian football so that's my loss.
That is fair enough. Maradona played in Serie A during the 80s, when Serie A was maybe at its second hardest. World class players on several teams. Totti grew up playing in Serie A in the 90s when it was at its hardest ever, dominating Europe, and with world class players on half the teams in the league. Both won the league during their respective era, but Totti kept up the performances for nearly 25 years, while Maradona only did it for around a dozen before he started having issues.
SplitYourInfinities
Member
No one that knows about football doubts that.
Perfect Blue
Banned
Well said.
CheDominik
Member
Speaking of Serie A football. Javier Zanetti bascially was the prototype for the modern full back. Yet nobody ever mentions defensive players in these conversations. It's why the whole GOAT discussion is quite silly.
Mehssi Fanboys disgust me.
goat who can't do shit with his NT? 3 goals against a team who had nothing to play for? A team whom are on the lower spectrum of SA football?
Where was mehssi against Chile? Germany?
What a joke. That loser is only delaying the inevitable. Argentina barely qualified to the World Cup. can't imagine how they'll survive the group stages.
There will be no dawn for frauds like messi.
goat who can't do shit with his NT? 3 goals against a team who had nothing to play for? A team whom are on the lower spectrum of SA football?
Where was mehssi against Chile? Germany?
What a joke. That loser is only delaying the inevitable. Argentina barely qualified to the World Cup. can't imagine how they'll survive the group stages.
There will be no dawn for frauds like messi.
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
Cafu too.
I think people use to consider defenders, but the Messi/Ronaldo time has seen people become more obssessed with numbers. From now on, it is gonna come down to the guy who scores the most on the best side. It is pretty much why Neymar left Barca. He knew his only chance to win the Balloon is to do it on a team where he can be top dog, as oppossed to showing he is better than Messi in the same team.
Let's cut the crap and end this discussion.
Rijkaard was so good.
Spuck-uk
Banned
A good post.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Wow Messi managed to get by in Argentina with a team of scrubs featuring Di Maria, Higuain, Icardi, Dybala, Aguero, Mascherano, Rojo and Otamendi against the mighty Ecuador.
GOAT
GOAT
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Legit can't tell if it's satire, but this turned in a Shyamalan twist at the last 2 paragraphs
A guy was arguing how incredible Messi was at the footy board because of how good he was in the group stages in 2014. You can't make this shit up vs the stans lol
Frustrated_me
Member
This.
And this so much.
That bait, ouf, well done sir
They really are scrubs without Messi.
Insane Metal
Member
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
Legit can't tell if it's satire, but this turned in a Shyamalan twist at the last 2 paragraphs
Fanboys argue over who is the greatest, legends already agree.
*. Pelé : "Totti is the best player in the world. He has just been a little unlucky in the past."
*Diego Maradona : "Totti is the world's number one." "He is a great player and he will keep on showing that. He representsItalian soccer and the Italian fans will have fun with him."
*. Michel Platini : "Totti is an artist of football, atrue Number 10, just like I was." "If I was playing today I'd be like Totti, who's become an out-and-out striker. There aren'tany Number 10s in the old playmaker role anyway."
*. Franz Beckenbauer : "There are many star players in Italy, but the only one I would bring to Bayern Munich would be Totti. I know him well and he deserves to win the Ballon d'Or ."
*. Roberto Baggio : "I want to compliment Francesco Totti, scoring 206 goals is a greatachievement. It does not matter that he has beat me as he is a great player." "He fought so hard and is now reaping the rewards. He always picked himself back up with pride and courage. Totti set an example with his achievements and his passion for this sport, proving you can push beyond your limits. He has the quality and ability to keep going and catch the nextplayers in the all-time scorers charts. He is one of the last few real Number 10s and while he has the strength, he should keep playing."
*. Jose Mourinho : "You know more than me what Totti means for Roma, for the Serie A, and for his team-mates. I want him to play because he's the best player in the Italian championship in terms of spectacle and quality of play."
*. Alex Ferguson : "Of course I know Totti is the fantastic player." "Totti is the symbol of Roma, hed never want to leave the club just like Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes at Manchester United. He needs to be kept at a certain level for Roma, just as I do at United." "Totti is the architect of everything they (Roma) do and we have to decide how best to deal with him. The issueis what we do with our centre-backs and whether we push one on to Totti but we can't let him control the game. It's a tricky one but we have to resolve it as best we can."
*. Arsene Wenger : "Totti is a top, top class player. He is typical of the Roman game and Im sure he will never move outside of Roma. He used to play in behind the strikersand then one day they had no central striker so they played him up front and wongame after game. He suddenly became the topscorer in Italy as a central striker. That means this guy has absolutely everything. He has a fantastic protection of the ball, he has a quick turn and then he has a very good pass in the final third of the pitch. He can be deadly with every single pass. He willcertainly be the most dangerous provider inthe final third for them in this game. He is not the only player who can be dangerous but he can open the defence with any pass at any moment of the day if you give him the freedom."
*. Carlo Ancelotti : "Totti is a great player who gave so much for Roma and still can give. He is the player who managed the best, especially from the physical point of view, he can remain a very important player to the team." "Francesco remains the undisputed symbol of Roma."
*. Alessandro Del Piero : "Above all on the eve of a match like this one, when on the other side, wearing a captain band on his arm, theres a player like Francesco Totti. If we put together our goals scored, it's over 500.If we sum up the years of career, wearing the same shirt it comes up to 35. We won the World Cup together and those memories unite us forever" . "We have a great relationship with plenty of admirationon both sides even if we don't call each other up. Francesco is great."
*. Pep Guardiola : "Totti is a fantastic player." "I am proud to play in a team with a player like him who is the symbol of Roma"
* Florentino Pérez : "I spent a lot of money in my life to build a powerful team like Real Madrid, but my desire, I always liked the captain of Roma, Francesco Totti. Unfortunately, it was impossible to reach him because Totti always want to remain with his club and his city." "It is very difficult for players like him to leave their clubs."
*. Eusebio Di Francesco : "Totti has great football intelligence, experience and seems to have four eyes to spot all potential passes." "Francesco has always been the added value for Roma. I am proud to still have an extraordinary rapport with himand every Christmas we exchange gifts."
*. Laurent Blanc : "Totti is more than a simple player for Roma. He is outstanding, the team's real standard bearer." "With Totti on the field, he brings something special to Roma. He is not just a great player, but also their Colosseum."
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
ya..not his fault. he has a shitty team, hes been the only one trying to make it work.
also, south american qualifiers are the hardest and thats been proven many times over. one day venezuela can trash you 4-0, the other day you can beat brasil with ease. u never know in south america cause all teamsjust keep getting better and better. its a hrd qualifiers period.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Ronaldinho never performed in a match in which we were against the ropes like Messi. There isnt a single great comeback recorded for Ronaldinho either for Barcelona or Brazil. It was always his teammates, Etoo in Barca and Adriano/Rivalso in Brazil that bailed him out.