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U.S. to Recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s Capital

P

Pomerlaw

Member
Dunki said:
You forgot that also Obama wanted to do this. In the last 20 years every US President wanted to do this.
Click to expand...

But he didn't.

Sometimes when you are rational, sane person, you realize some of you wishes can't be realized. I'm sure a lot of politicians do not proceed with their campaign promises because when they get in charge and realize there are other consequences, they do not go ahead. Yeah it pisses off some people but only dictators and insane leaders never change their minds.
 
L

Lynn616

Member
Usobuko said:
What's the problem with violence then?

Killing other life forms for the betterment of oneself has been the nature of life since the very beginning.

What makes you and your family lives so special compare to the ant I just crushed for fun?
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I have no idea what you are trying to say here.
 
R

Resident_UA

Member
Dunki said:
If you can not read the articles I posted or the sources I quoted it is not my problem. And honestly I do not care if this is a racist statement in your opinion because when it is the truth why should I not say it?

I personally consider Christianity and Islam as the ideologies who were (Islam still is) are the most vile form of oppressors through out history and I backed up this claim. And no it is #notallmuslim but a vast majority of it since I again showed with the pew research which consists of 15 pages full of statistics to back up my claims.

So maybe just maybe it is your turn now to show that I am wrong with other statistics and maybe then we can have a discussion about it.
Click to expand...

What is there to discuss? I'm accusing you of being racist and you are telling me it's OK to be racist if statistics support it. It's like Nazis with measurement tape proving intelligence.

There's nothing in the statement below that is just an innocent opinion. You are painting with broad brush in an attempt to dehumanize a whole group of people.


1. Muslims are probably Number 1 at oppressing others through out history. Let us not forget this. I am sorry I give you the white men and we can argue who is worse in this regard but Muslims did not better and most importantly they are doing it today like they did before.
Click to expand...
 
K

KiLLaDeZo

Member
Dunki said:
And I gave you sources and articles staing its true and not unfounded. How is this not clear? Also there is a probably and that you can argue about it so it means it debatable. And this has nothing to do with racism. Islam or religion in general is something you choose not something you are born with.
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I am sorry to say but after reading your posts you make no sense at all. Other than the fact that you have some serious hate for muslims. And no, your links dont prove anything.
 
X

Xtyle

Member
CampbellzSoup said:
Isn’t that sad? Like think about how sad that is. So we appease people or they’ll be violent?
Click to expand...

This is stupid as hell and I just have to come out and say it.

I am not very knowledgeable with this whole middle East thing and Isreal/Palestine but I have read about it here and there over the years and Israel is without a fucking doubt the evil side. Sure both sides cause violence but Israel is the oppresser.
 
CampbellzSoup

CampbellzSoup

Member
Xtyle said:
This is stupid as hell and I just have to come out and say it.

I am not very knowledgeable with this whole middle East thing and Isreal/Palestine but I have read about it here and there over the years and Israel is without a fucking doubt the evil side. Sure both sides cause violence but Israel is the oppresser.
Click to expand...

Israel is the oppresser? Oh boy...
 
O

oliander

Member
Xtyle said:
This is stupid as hell and I just have to come out and say it.

I am not very knowledgeable with this whole middle East thing and Isreal/Palestine but I have read about it here and there over the years and Israel is without a fucking doubt the evil side. Sure both sides cause violence but Israel is the oppresser.
Click to expand...

Not very knowledgeable, yet you know who 'da bad guy' is without a doubt?
 
gunslikewhoa

gunslikewhoa

Member
Xtyle said:
This is stupid as hell and I just have to come out and say it.

I am not very knowledgeable with this whole middle East thing and Isreal/Palestine but I have read about it here and there over the years and Israel is without a fucking doubt the evil side. Sure both sides cause violence but Israel is the oppresser.
Click to expand...

This is what you see when you look up 'hot take' in the dictionary.

'I don't know much about this, but here's my super strong opinion.'
 
D

Dunki

Member
Resident_UA said:
What is there to discuss? I'm accusing you of being racist and you are telling me it's OK to be racist if statistics support it. It's like Nazis with measurement tape proving intelligence.

There's nothing in the statement below that is just an innocent opinion. You are painting with broad brush in an attempt to dehumanize a whole group of people.
Click to expand...

I "dehumanize" an ideology not a group of people. And there is a huge difference here in my opinion. Also as I said before #notallmuslims but the vast majority. And please if you can not prove me wrong I think we do not have anything to discuss. My statistics for this claim are legit.

Also I do not categorize people as subhuman I am not even attacking people. I am "attacking" or judge an ideology which I think is vile and has become over the last 40 years extrem dangerous.
 
D

Dunki

Member
RastaMentality said:
itt: gaffers approve of theocracies so long as they aren't muslim
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who does this? Gov and church MUST always be seprated in my opinion.And I am sorry but if the Sharia is your law. then this needs to end more than anything else because you are not better than ISIS

859.jpg
 
MisterFalcon

MisterFalcon

Member
RastaMentality said:
itt: gaffers approve of theocracies so long as they aren't muslim
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Israel is not a theocracy. There are many forms of state and religious functions overlapping:
-A state church funded by taxes. Iceland has one for instance
-Head of state is head of the church. Like Queen Elizabeth.
-States with an official religion. This is where Israel comes in although 'Jewish' can be both ethnic and religious and it's not clear what it is. Syria and Egypt for instance clearly identify themselves as both ethnic (Arab Republics) and religious (islamic) states
-States where religious law is part of or entirely in state law. This can be shops having to close on sunday or the death penalty for blasphemy.
-States where the government is wholly or partially run by religious clerics. This is a the basic theorcracy and there are only The Vatican, Iran and the Tibetan government in exile that fit that description.

When it comes to Jerusalem it's useful to compare the access provided to the holy places by Jordan and Israel. Compared to the zero access allowed by Jordan to any Jews the Israeli policy is very accomodating.
 
A

Ashes

Banned
MisterFalcon said:
When it comes to Jerusalem it's useful to compare the access provided to the holy places by Jordan and Israel. Compared to the zero access allowed by Jordan to any Jews the Israeli policy is very accomodating.
Click to expand...

Are Jews allowed to access the Temple Mount?
 
kittoo

kittoo

Cretinously credulous
Xtyle said:
This is stupid as hell and I just have to come out and say it.

I am not very knowledgeable with this whole middle East thing and Isreal/Palestine but I have read about it here and there over the years and Israel is without a fucking doubt the evil side. Sure both sides cause violence but Israel is the oppresser.
Click to expand...

So you don't know much but according to you, Israel is the 'evil side, without a fucking doubt'?
 
B

burnjanso

Member
kittoo said:
So you don't know much but according to you, Israel is the 'evil side, without a fucking doubt'?
Click to expand...

How much do you need to know about a situation to decide which side is the 'evil side?' We can't all be experts. Israel makes me think about George Zimmerman. I don't know much about the facts presented in the trial. Doesn't stop me from thinking that George is 'evil.'
 
Vigilant Walrus

Vigilant Walrus

Member
U.S. envoy Nikki Haley said that for many years, the United Nations “has outrageously been one of the world’s foremost centers of hostility towards Israel.”

The United States found itself isolated at a special United Nations Security Council meeting in its recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, a move that set off alarms about the risk of escalating conflict in the Middle East.

Eight of the 15 members of the UN Security Council, the organisation which looks out for peace and security around the world, had called for an urgent meeting on Friday to analyse the decision taken by Washington, Efe news agency reported.

A sense of how isolated the United States had become was in the air due to the decision announced by President Donald Trump, who since his electoral campaign had expressed an obvious favouritism for Israel’s stance on the matter.
 
M

Moneal

Member
burnjanso said:
How much do you need to know about a situation to decide which side is the 'evil side?' We can't all be experts. Israel makes me think about George Zimmerman. I don't know much about the facts presented in the trial. Doesn't stop me from thinking that George is 'evil.'
Click to expand...

Feels over facts am I right.
 
B

burnjanso

Member
monegames said:
Feels over facts am I right.
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It's more like I'm probably not going to be able to research all the facts by myself on every freaking issues on the internet, and so I rely on arguments in op-eds from both sides, read public statements from organizations such as EU and UN, and then take a side on the issue.

edit: Also, by 'facts' i am referring to fact-checking claims in arguments used in op-eds.
 
M

Moneal

Member
burnjanso said:
It's more like I'm probably not going to be able to research all the facts by myself on every freaking issues on the internet, and so I rely on arguments in op-eds from both sides, read public statements from organizations such as EU and UN, and then take a side on the issue.
Click to expand...

So you read how rockets were shot at them, because the President of The US said something, and they shot back, making them the evil side right.
 
B

burnjanso

Member
monegames said:
So you read how rockets were shot at them, because the President of The US said something, and they shot back, making them the evil side right.
Click to expand...

Yeah sounds just about right. Almost exactly like what Israel side was claiming. Israel really must hire better writers because their arguments are not in the least compelling. As a Korean, having lived through all the crap NK has done, it really takes a special kind of effort in their part to have me leaning against them.
 
kittoo

kittoo

Cretinously credulous
burnjanso said:
How much do you need to know about a situation to decide which side is the 'evil side?' We can't all be experts. Israel makes me think about George Zimmerman. I don't know much about the facts presented in the trial. Doesn't stop me from thinking that George is 'evil.'
Click to expand...

Bro I am really not able to see what you are saying. Israel makes you think of George Zimmerman? Why? And what relevance does this have? These two aren't related in any way. If I said that South Korea reminds me of North Korea and hence South Korea is bad, would that be ok? And south korea and north korea have far more connection than Israel and Zimmerman. I am boggled as to what kind of logic this is.
Though if you are saying that 'i just feel Israel is guilty and that's it', it's irrational but I can't give any facts that will change anything for you as your whole assertion is based on 'feelings'
 
gunslikewhoa

gunslikewhoa

Member
Vigilant Walrus said:
U.S. envoy Nikki Haley said that for many years, the United Nations “has outrageously been one of the world’s foremost centers of hostility towards Israel.”

The United States found itself isolated at a special United Nations Security Council meeting in its recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, a move that set off alarms about the risk of escalating conflict in the Middle East.

Eight of the 15 members of the UN Security Council, the organisation which looks out for peace and security around the world, had called for an urgent meeting on Friday to analyse the decision taken by Washington, Efe news agency reported.

A sense of how isolated the United States had become was in the air due to the decision announced by President Donald Trump, who since his electoral campaign had expressed an obvious favouritism for Israel’s stance on the matter.
Click to expand...

Should just say, 'UN continues doing UN things.'
 
Y

You Know Nothing

Member
TTOOLL said:
I thought Trump was a Nazi, people here told me this. Why is he helping Jews?
Click to expand...

Do you ever contribute anything but snide one liners about how Above It All™ you are or nah? Just wondering for a friend.

ANYWAY, it's almost as if this action could send the region into further chaos or something and Trump is doing this simply to pander to batshit evangelicals. Weird how that works.
 
Boss Mog

Boss Mog

Member
Usobuko said:
Realize your kind has no alliance from every other groups residing in this world, your numbers are going down and rising powers will follow your footsteps to dictate the future.

It will be a slow agonizing death and quite frankly you deserve it.

The funny part is you and your kind probably believe you're doing a good deed. Being that insular is a disease and fret not, there are plenty of similarly illed people in your society.
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Are you quoting the official ISIS playbook there? I mean seriously, do you even hear yourself?
 
A

AllIsOneIsNone

Banned
burnjanso said:
How much do you need to know about a situation to decide which side is the 'evil side?' We can't all be experts. Israel makes me think about George Zimmerman. I don't know much about the facts presented in the trial. Doesn't stop me from thinking that George is 'evil.'
Click to expand...

Let's just all be glad you aren't part of any judicial system.

The Israel conflict exposes ignorance like yours so easily precisely because it's such a complex topic; it's not some movie where you're trying to guess the villian. You can't feel this one out, bud. Life is more complicated than your tiny corner of existence, get over it.
 
D

Dunki

Member
burnjanso said:
How much do you need to know about a situation to decide which side is the 'evil side?' We can't all be experts. Israel makes me think about George Zimmerman. I don't know much about the facts presented in the trial. Doesn't stop me from thinking that George is 'evil.'
Click to expand...

You could also look at the reactions to this. People who want other people dead because of this are not worth protecting. Erdogan who just went to Greece to talk about the extension of his borders (demanding) is not worth listen to when he is upset. Iran is not worth listen to when they are upset. People in Germany who just went on a small angry protest here burning isreal flags are not worth listen to. People who are defending the HAMAS are not worth listening to. And most important. People who want genocide are not worth listening to.

But these are just some small points you should take a look at.
 
kittoo

kittoo

Cretinously credulous
Usobuko said:
The only group that has a free past of atrocities in the world of the recent history are western nations lead by white people.

Get this straight in your mind first.

I'm not here to contest whether your decision is moral or not but at the end of the day people like you antagonize 1b+ Muslims with your xenophobic drivel and by the numbers they have they will fight back. Good luck dealing with the repercussions. Is it morally wrong if the extremists punch out with utter disregard of morals / laws set by western humanity in western society? Probably not according to their morals.

This is how you sound to them.

You're not even winning the war among white people yourself in Europe at least.

The more connected the world is, the more light it shown on people of you kind with arbitrary flip-flopping morals that serve your prerogative.

At the end of the day, we are all nothing more but life forms residing on earth. If you poke the hornets nest, prepare to get sting.

Realize your kind has no alliance from every other groups residing in this world, your numbers are going down and rising powers will follow your footsteps to dictate the future.

It will be a slow agonizing death and quite frankly you deserve it.

The funny part is you and your kind probably believe you're doing a good deed. Being that insular is a disease and fret not, there are plenty of similarly illed people in your society.
Click to expand...

Holy shit dude! Wtf is wrong with you?
 
B

burnjanso

Member
AllIsOneIsNone said:
Let's just all be glad you aren't part of any judicial system.

The Israel conflict exposes ignorance like yours so easily precisely because it's such a complex topic; it's not some movie where you're trying to guess the villian. You can't feel this one out, bud. Life is more complicated than your tiny corner of existence, get over it.
Click to expand...

Rubbish I say. I don't need to be a part of any judicial system to be moral or to think ethically. And yes I will have my own ethical standards under my 'tiny corner of existence.' I will also try whenever I can to persuade my country's politicians to consider the atrocity being committed in the area.
 
B

burnjanso

Member
Dunki said:
You could also look at the reactions to this. People who want other people dead because of this are not worth protecting. Erdogan who just went to Greece to talk about the extension of his borders (demanding) is not worth listen to when he is upset. Iran is not worth listen to when they are upset. People in Germany who just went on a small angry protest here burning isreal flags are not worth listen to. People who are defending the HAMAS are not worth listening to. And most important. People who want genocide are not worth listening to.

But these are just some small points you should take a look at.
Click to expand...

If your points are true then the same could be said for people who support Zionism.
 
A

Ashes

Banned
kittoo said:
As far as I know, they are allowed to go in (with some restrictions), but aren't allowed to pray in any form.
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DEATH™;253104330 said:
IIRC they are actually restricted. The closes they can go is the west wall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount_entry_restrictions
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Ah I see. So that link says:

"While it has formally recognized that the responsibility for the site, an Islamic religious endowment, lies under the management of the Jordanian government through the Waqf in Amman,[3][4] the Israeli government imposes entry limits to Temple Mount for political and security reasons. In addition, Jewish law imposes restrictions on entering Temple Mount."

But... MisterFalcon.... they said:

When it comes to Jerusalem it's useful to compare the access provided to the holy places by Jordan and Israel. Compared to the zero access allowed by Jordan to any Jews the Israeli policy is very accomodating.
Click to expand...
 
llien

llien

Member
Wording in OP left me wondering, what "recognizing as capital" means.
It actually does not make sense.

What USA did was recognize Jerusalem as part of Israel. (according to UN resolution 181 that led to creation of the modern state of Israel, it is a city with special status, back then, it was deep in Palestinian territory).

XTcGmgm.png
 
MisterFalcon

MisterFalcon

Member
Ashes said:
Ah I see. So that link says:

"While it has formally recognized that the responsibility for the site, an Islamic religious endowment, lies under the management of the Jordanian government through the Waqf in Amman,[3][4] the Israeli government imposes entry limits to Temple Mount for political and security reasons. In addition, Jewish law imposes restrictions on entering Temple Mount."

But... MisterFalcon.... they said:
Click to expand...

Jordan denied access to all Jewish holy sites in East Jerusalem including the Wailing wall. Compare this to Al-Aqsa who got to be run by the same organization whose leader claims the Temple Mount has been an Islamic holy site since the creation of the world.
 
EverydayBeast

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
All of this could have been avoided if you’d just give them part of Alaska but you know, warm weather and all.
 
A

Ashes

Banned
MisterFalcon said:
Jordan denied access to all Jewish holy sites in East Jerusalem including the Wailing wall. Compare this to Al-Aqsa who got to be run by the same organization whose leader claims the Temple Mount has been an Islamic holy site since the creation of the world.
Click to expand...

Ah shucks. Why don't we just meet in the middle and agree that its a whole lot more complicated than you're letting on.
 
M

Moneal

Member
llien said:
Wording in OP left me wondering, what "recognizing as capital" means.
It actually does not make sense.

What USA did was recognize Jerusalem as part of Israel. (according to UN resolution 181 that led to creation of the modern state of Israel, it is a city with special status, back then, it was deep in Palestinian territory).

XTcGmgm.png
Click to expand...

yea 2 years later, after 2 wars, in 1949, Israel signed separate armistices with Egypt on 24 February, Lebanon on 23 March, Transjordan on 3 April, and Syria on 20 July. This is the map and I believe its pretty close to the borders today.
Cia-is-map2.png
 
base

base

Banned
Trump did what he promised earlier.

Europeans should back up this move because Israel is a strategic country. I don't care if Muslims agree with him. More violence? Did it ever stop? Won't change anything.
 
R

RefigeKru

Banned
.rain said:
Trump did what he promised earlier.

Europeans should back up this move because Israel is a strategic country. I don't care if Muslims agree with him. More violence? Did it ever stop? Won't change anything.
Click to expand...

The European Union and United Nations also voiced alarm at U.S. President Donald Trump’s decision to move the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem and its repercussions for any chances of reviving Israeli-Palestinian peacemaking.

Major U.S. allies came out against Trump’s reversal of decades of U.S. and broad international policy on Jerusalem.

France rejected the “unilateral” decision while appealing for calm in the region. Britain said the move would not help peace efforts and Jerusalem should ultimately be shared by Israel and a future Palestinian state. Germany said Jerusalem’s status could only be resolved on the basis of a two-state solution.
Click to expand...

Sounds like we're pretty against this.
 
R

RefigeKru

Banned
Dunki said:
The question is why. My guess is that they A. Do not want anymore refugees and B they do not want angry Muslims because thats bothersome. They are not against it because its wrong.
Click to expand...

It's not much of a question since they've already said why, you can google real quick.

French President Emmanuel Macron said he did not support Trump’s “unilateral” move.

“The status of Jerusalem is a question of international security that concerns the entire international community. The status of Jerusalem must be determined by Israelis and Palestinians in the framework of negotiations under the auspices of the United Nations,” Macron told reporters in Algiers.

“France and Europe are attached to a two-state solution - Israel and Palestine - living side by side in peace and security within recognised international borders with Jerusalem the capital of both states,” he said.

“For now, I urge for calm and for everyone to be responsible. We must avoid at all costs avoid violence and foster dialogue,” he said.

U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said there was no alternative to a two-state solution and Jerusalem was a final-status matter only to be settled through direct talks.

“I have consistently spoken out against any unilateral measures that would jeopardize the prospect of peace for Israelis and Palestinians,” Guterres said. “I will do everything in my power to support the Israeli and Palestinian leaders to return to meaningful negotiations.”
Click to expand...

Plus, no one aside from Trump really wants to wade too deep into Israel's conflict with the Palestinian's - a real problem being that our elected officials are incapable of directly condemning the state's atrocities.

Since you asked though Dunki, if you don't believe any of the European countries condemning this move or say, the UN, actually believe this is say "wrong", do you really believe Trump is doing this because it's "right"?
 
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