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David Wise leaves Rare

R

Rad-

Member
Bebpo said:
So I don't get it. Someone explain it to me.

MS spends all this money getting these first party studios together. Assembling a lineup of quality exclusive software. Thanks to these games in part, the X360 is where it is today. Then they fire them or the team leaves or whatever.

X360 is still in a fierce software battle with PS3 for every exclusive they can get. What good does it do MS to lose these studios who could be making kickass exclusive 1st party games in many genres to battle the PS3 1st parties? It's one thing if X360 had one the generation and was so far ahead MS could fire everyone and sit back and enjoy profits, but they're in the middle of a major heated battle. This would be the dumbest time to lose 1st party titles.

What is going on?
Click to expand...

They realized going first party is not as profitable. For maximum profits, going second party or exclusive third party is the way to go. This way you don't have to pay all those extra costs that owning a studio creates.

Also MS doesn't seem to want to keep studios that just create good games. They only seem to want studios that either create hugely profitable games or studios that can help the company in more ways than just games.
 
S

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
grandjedi6 said:
ACES Game Studio - DEAD

Ensemble Studios - DEAD

Digital Anvil - DEAD

Hired Gun - DEAD

FASA Studio - DEAD

Indie Built - DEAD

Carbonated Games - DEAD

Wingnut Interactive - Basically DEAD

Mistwalker - Give It Another Year

Bungie - Running Away As Fast As They Can

Rare - Not Looking Too Good

Lionhead Studios - Fate Worse Than Death: Stuck With Molyneux

Xbox Live Productions - As Doomed as Carbonated Games

Turn 10 - It's Inevitable, Isn't It?
Click to expand...


Mistwalker is not a Microsoft Game Studio, they are an independent studio currently alligned with Microsoft. Bungie already "ran away" by getting their freedom, though I do recall they are still sort of locked in via a long-term publishing agreement with first rights-and-refusal. Indie Built was killed off by Take 2 and not Microsoft. Lionhead owes its existence to Molyneux since its foundation. Rare is I would say probably save from the axe, if only due to the fortune Microsoft payed out for it. Missing from the list are three new Microsoft Game Studios, BigPark, Spawnpoint Studios and 343 Industries.
 
S

slaughterking

Member
Good thing if this allows him to create full soundtracks for games again. He's an incredibly talented guy and I was actually listiening to a YouTube playlist of the DKC2 OST right before I saw this news -- there's such amazing ambient music to be found there.
 
J

Jocchan

Ὁ μεμβερος -ου
grandjedi6 said:
ACES Game Studio - DEAD

Ensemble Studios - DEAD

Digital Anvil - DEAD

Hired Gun - DEAD

FASA Studio - DEAD

Indie Built - DEAD

Carbonated Games - DEAD

Wingnut Interactive - Basically DEAD

Mistwalker - Give It Another Year

Bungie - Running Away As Fast As They Can

Rare - Not Looking Too Good

Lionhead Studios - Fate Worse Than Death: Stuck With Molyneux

Xbox Live Productions - As Doomed as Carbonated Games

Turn 10 - It's Inevitable, Isn't It?
Click to expand...
Killing the game industry from the inside, one studio at a time, since 2001.
 
S

Shiggy

Member
Pretty sad to see him leave. But what should he have done? Starting with Sabreman Stampede, 7 years of work remained unpublished as projects were cancelled.

Nirolak said:
Perhaps they're astoundingly casual and they want a Wii Sports or Wii System menu like soundtrack.
Click to expand...

5564179_610x382.jpg

They need a soundtrack for Avatar Tennis!


I'm also a little bit concerned with the quality of their Natal products:
"Manage a large team of engineers working on a tight schedule to go from pre-production to finished product in a year."
Making a product in only one year when Rare normally needs at least three years.
 
M

Michan

Member
Shard said:
Indie Games Channel.
Click to expand...
Oh alright. Nice presentation; doesn't look half bad. Are those the XBL avatars or just some rip-offs? Because if the former, Rare probably isn't working on a Wii Tennis clone as I doubt Microsoft would permit their use in a competitive "avatar tennis" game.
 
T

Toski

Member
Rad- said:
They realized going first party is not as profitable. For maximum profits, going second party or exclusive third party is the way to go. This way you don't have to pay all those extra costs that owning a studio creates.

Also MS doesn't seem to want to keep studios that just create good games. They only seem to want studios that either create hugely profitable games or studios that can help the company in more ways than just games.
Click to expand...
This is the truth, combined with the fact of Nintendo's success with the Wii, Microsoft is out for marketshare and profit at the expense of their own development studios. Bungie opted out because they did not want to be a Halo factory for the rest of their days, and Microsoft has hemorrhaged too much money on the Xbox project for them to care about studios that the current route of paying for timed third party exclusives or exclusive content is the profit maximizing way at this time.

Next gen (if it ever comes after Natal) will probably see Microsoft trying to rebuild what first party studios they had. Right now though they are running barebones trying to create as much short term profit out of the 360/Natal that their current course is probably the best for their goals.
 
N

[Nintex]

Member
Toski said:
Next gen (if it ever comes after Natal) will probably see Microsoft trying to rebuild what first party studios they had. Right now though they are running barebones trying to create as much short term profit out of the 360/Natal that their current course is probably the best for their goals.
Click to expand...
It's stupid because Rare's tech is unrivaled. Outside of Alan Wake, MS's games don't look that hot. Crackdown is the same engine(the same city even), leaked Reach shots weren't that impressive and Fable 2 graphics were 'meh'. Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts pretty much maxed out the Xbox 360(they had to cut some parts from Showdown town to make it fit into the memory). A Perfect Dark 2 for Xbox 360 could be the best looking 360 game yet.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
[Nintex] said:
It's stupid because Rare's tech is unrivaled. Outside of Alan Wake, MS's games don't look that hot. Crackdown is the same engine(the same city even), leaked Reach shots weren't that impressive and Fable 2 graphics were 'meh'. Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts pretty much maxed out the Xbox 360(they had to cut some parts from Showdown town to make it fit into the memory). A Perfect Dark 2 for Xbox 360 could be the best looking 360 game yet.
Click to expand...

Perfect Dark Zero, while subHD, was a fine looking game. Great textures, great lighting, great guns. A sequel would have had Re5 level image quality and amazing graphics...certainly more impressive than anything Epic produces with UE3.
 
T

Toski

Member
[Nintex] said:
It's stupid because Rare's tech is unrivaled. Outside of Alan Wake, MS's games don't look that hot. Crackdown is the same engine(the same city even), leaked Reach shots weren't that impressive and Fable 2 graphics were 'meh'. Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts pretty much maxed out the Xbox 360(they had to cut some parts from Showdown town to make it fit into the memory). A Perfect Dark 2 for Xbox 360 could be the best looking 360 game yet.
Click to expand...
The Wii changed everything. The graphics just have to be good enough, not top of the line. Graphics whores already have PS3s or PC which have teams dedicated to producing top tier graphics.

It is a little unfair to call out Reach because it is no where near done though. If Perfect Dark 2 does come out, I hope they get Kirkhope as a freelancer to do the music.
 
K

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
-PXG- said:
Fucking Rare. *spits*
Click to expand...

God knows I hate many things at Rare, but I think this has more to do with Microsoft.

Good luck to you, David Wise. I wonder what a guy like Koji Kondo and him could create together.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Solo said:
Yea, lets lol at the guy who wrote the immensely memorable Goldeneye, Perfect Dark and Banjo Kazooie scores.

sm-mf-h
Click to expand...

Sorry but Kirkhope doesn't compare to David Wise.
 
U

upandaway

Member
Reading the Rare revival stuff, I just put my hand on my forehead and let out a huge sigh.

This is intense, man. You're making me believe.
 
S

Solo

Member
jett said:
Sorry but Kirkhope doesn't compare to David Wise.
Click to expand...

Well, you've convinved me with your argument (which I might add is basically "I like Donkey Kongs music more than GE/BK/PD's!").

Anyways, I should amend my first comment to say that they already lost their best talent when they lost Kirkhope AND Graem Norgate.
 
S

Solo

Member
upandaway said:
Reading the Rare revival stuff, I just put my hand on my forehead and let out a huge sigh.

This is intense, man. You're making me believe.
Click to expand...

The Rare revivial stuff?
 
B

Bluemercury

Member
Bebpo said:
So I don't get it. Someone explain it to me.

MS spends all this money getting these first party studios together. Assembling a lineup of quality exclusive software. Thanks to these games in part, the X360 is where it is today. Then they fire them or the team leaves or whatever.

X360 is still in a fierce software battle with PS3 for every exclusive they can get. What good does it do MS to lose these studios who could be making kickass exclusive 1st party games in many genres to battle the PS3 1st parties? It's one thing if X360 had one the generation and was so far ahead MS could fire everyone and sit back and enjoy profits, but they're in the middle of a major heated battle. This would be the dumbest time to lose 1st party titles.

What is going on?
Click to expand...


Well i remember Iwata saying something about buying a company not the same thing of buying their talent, because they can always leave like this Wise guy.....
 
E

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
That's a shame. Banjo-Land's/Vina Pinata's music are the only thing I'm enjoying out of anything Rare's done in the last 9 years.
 
F

Flying_Phoenix

Banned
TunaLover said:
Let's hope Banjo doesn't left the company too...
Click to expand...

What? That would be ideal. Maybe we can get a true sequel to the games as well as see them have a release on the Virtual Console?

grandjedi6 said:
ACES Game Studio - DEAD

Ensemble Studios - DEAD

Digital Anvil - DEAD

Hired Gun - DEAD

FASA Studio - DEAD

Indie Built - DEAD

Carbonated Games - DEAD

Wingnut Interactive - Basically DEAD

Mistwalker - Give It Another Year

Bungie - Running Away As Fast As They Can

Rare - Not Looking Too Good

Lionhead Studios - Fate Worse Than Death: Stuck With Molyneux

Xbox Live Productions - As Doomed as Carbonated Games

Turn 10 - It's Inevitable, Isn't It?
Click to expand...

Yet another reason why I want Microsoft out of the console race.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
Flying_Phoenix said:
What? That would be ideal. Maybe we can get a true sequel to the games as well as see them have a release on the Virtual Console?
Click to expand...

In case you were wondering, Dante, here's a fine reason why I stay out of these threads now.
 
D

Dubble

Member
NOOOO D:

I was just listening to some Battletoads stuff from him the other day. We already know he'll probably never do a Donkey Kong soundtrack again and now this.

That sucks
 
T

TunaLover

Member
Flying_Phoenix said:
What? That would be ideal. Maybe we can get a true sequel to the games as well as see them have a release on the Virtual Console?
Yet another reason why I want Microsoft out of the console race.
Click to expand...

That´s a pretty selfish reason!
I completely agree with you! :lol
 
E

evilromero

Member
Haunted said:
:(

Well, 1 promising studio out of 14 isn't so bad! Right guys?


guys?


oh no you didn't

beelze, what shall we do with this one?
Click to expand...
I still play this game regularly. The soundtrack, level design and controls all came together to form a very unique experience. I just like driving around the levels.
 
H

Hero of Legend

Member
Dubble said:
NOOOO D:

I was just listening to some Battletoads stuff from him the other day. We already know he'll probably never do a Donkey Kong soundtrack again and now this.

That sucks
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be MORE likely now? I mean his involvement was only with ports, Nintendo never seemed supportive of Rare under MS making original DK games, hence why Diddy Kong Pilot and Coconut Crackers got a facelift.

Now there's actually a shot of him composing for a future, ORIGINAL DK game on the Wii even.

Paon's not too shabby as I kinda liked Barrel Blast's soundtrack from what I've heard of it (never bought it), but lord would I have bought it day 1 if Wise compaosed it! :D

FYI, Nintendo owns Diddy Kong Racing's soundtrack, the DS version's credits showed that. Why they don't own Taj, Timber, or the other crew is beyond me, hell Taj was in Donkey Kong Racing's trailer, what the hell happened there? You'd think at that point he was part of the IP.

The promo art for the original also pointed in that direction:

scene11.jpg
scene2.jpg


Sure it's not like he was THAT important, but I miss him. :(

Since Nintendo owns the soundtrack, why has it been pretty much been locked away? The closest we ever got was that DK/Diddy's track theme in Double Dash sounds kinda like Jungle Falls.

May as well say it, a dream game would be:

EAD + Galaxy-style 3D DK game that uses the franchises characters unlike Jungle Beat + David Wise composing = AWW YEAH!!! :D
 
A

Ad Infinitum

Member
louis89 said:
Haven't heard that name in a while. I remember reading N64 Magazine as a kid when he was one of the writers... holy shit with all these Youtube clips this thread is bringing back my childhood so much ;_;
.
Click to expand...

FuSoYa™ :)

N64 magazine was awesome...


And old Rare, too. *sniff*
 
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