• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Is there a weirder game than Ecco The Dolphin? both in content and context

Krejlooc

Banned
I like how the games have "Dolphin speak," a way of phrasing things that sounded odd. Like Dolphins called themselves "Singers," and the general way things were phrased to sound odd and slightly alien.

I also liked the way the Asterite talked. "Hello little one, I haven't felt your thoughts in quite some time"
 

Silvawuff

Member
Probably Dynamite Headdy for me, or Silhouette Mirage (both developed by Treasure). I feel like both games had some kind of allegory internal dialogue going on as you played them, but I could never quite pin it.
 
Impressive stuff in this thread. I bought Dreamcast's Ecco a few weeks ago due a thread right here in Neogaf about OSTs. I dropped in second level because I find myself lost.

I wanna give to this game a second chance to experience the develpment of the story by myself. Probably I'm gonna buy Ecco 1 on 3DS too!
 

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
This always seemed like a game that should have a Ulillillia YouTube play through associated with it, or at least some creepypasta shenanigans. It's just so strange.
 

Disgraced

Member
This always seemed like a game that should have a Ulillillia YouTube play through associated with it, or at least some creepypasta shenanigans. It's just so strange.
Found one.

Highlight:
I still remember the game and news report by heart today. I haven't played Ecco ever since. I never want to play Ecco. Ecco maybe good on the inside but a murderer outside. He will kill the whole population of dolphins in the world. If you see Ecco the dolphin merchandise, get rid of it. If you see any Ecco games, destroy them. The more you play Ecco, the more he kills. He is a Satanist.
 

Eppy Thatcher

God's had his chance.
Jump into every Ecco thread cause of course but then instantly see a Chakan reference and the full insanity of both sequels brought to the party! Lol

I only beat the first one and never fuckin beat Chakan but I love both of these games almost more than any other in my nostalgia. Definitely defining "what in the fuck am I holding..." in both these games that made impressions for different reasons.

Great stuff. And LSD is just the best. It's no wonder it had a small part in this fantastic game :-D
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Probably Dynamite Headdy for me, or Silhouette Mirage (both developed by Treasure). I feel like both games had some kind of allegory internal dialogue going on as you played them, but I could never quite pin it.

Dynamite Headdy had quite a bit of dialog in the japanese version, actually, that got entirely cut from western releases. Dynamite Headdy is slightly more coherent than it lets on.
 

DarkOneX

Member
Long time ago I saw some gameplay video of a game where you are like a killer whale in a swimming pool fighting Jesus or something and now for the life of me I cannot find it.
 

Surta

Member
there's a new (2013) 3DS version now with added 3D and some tinkered difficulty

it's easily the defintiive version
It's been posted a few times but I'll say it again: the recent 3DS version of Ecco added an optional toggle for "super dolphin mode" which makes you invincible and gives you infinite air, so if you want to play the game but don't feel up to the challenge, that's the version to get.

I'd say the definitive version still is the Windows 95 PC version. The fanmade "Fixed and Enhanced Edition" (download easy to find) restores it to working order in modern Windows, and has a hidden "Super Dolphin Mode" as well.
Oh, and in the original revision 00 Genesis release, you can simply hold A+Start in the black loading screen before a level starts to become unkillable (you still lose health and air, but don't die). Might even work after exiting a sonar map screen, if I remember correctly.


Looks like I have these games on steam.
If you have the first game on Steam, give the revision 01 "mod" a try. It's an official but unreleased version of the game, based on the Japanese one, with reduced difficulty.
 

Khaz

Member
The 8-bit ports of these games were really good too, all things considered. They may have looked incredibly ugly, but they played very faithfully and had the level layouts intact.

I was cool enough to have a Game Gear and I bought the game because dolphins. The screenshots in the magazines looked amazing (and the review was probably a massive shill) and I'm sure my parents were delighted to buy me a peaceful game. Eh.

The 8bit ports hold up very well. Obviously the graphics are downgraded but not by much, and the core of the game is intact. The gameplay is also spot on, jumping through the waves is just as exciting as the Megadrive version. Once I finished it I immediately got the tides of time. I didn't found either were especially hard, they took me a bunch of tries but they didn't feel harder than other contemporary games. they are also one of the few games I beat back in the day. They should have been on the 3DS VC.
 

Surta

Member
Here's a brilliant Ecco retrospective, deserving some more views! Contains some story spoilers, of course.


It wasn't until a couple years ago when I played Ecco on the Steam Genesis/ Mega Drive collection where I discovered how different the Genesis version was. The Genesis game is harder, it doesn't have the mid level checkpoints and it is missing levels from the Sega CD version. The game feels a little less polished overall in its original state.
The Genesis version is not that different. But yeah, the first release is definitely less polished and harder. Checkpoints were introduced for the Japanese / revision 01 release, which also had two new levels, but they're nothing special (Open Ocean 2 and the already mentioned The Stomach). The additional levels in the CD version use a new tileset from Ecco 2. I guess that tileset didn't exist yet when revision 01 was made and would have required a larger ROM anyway.

Also, Sega really needs to embrace GOG and release a lot of their old Windows 95 games on their store front. What would Sega have to lose by doing this? They have a lot of old games from the Windows 9x era that they could release on GOG.
Ecco PC was developed by Novotrade, just like the originals. Sega PC was the publisher, but they might not have the source code. GOG cannot do miracles with old games, sometimes they simply copy existing fanmade patches. Anyway, the original Ecco PC still works in Windows 8 and 10, actually better than ever, thanks to a fanmade launcher/patcher.

Also, There were a game based on the movie Jaws that was developed by Appaloosa Interactive. I'm pretty sure the game used the same engine as Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future.
Yes, it did. Was released for PS2 and PC, if I remember correctly.




So I guess to expand on Salsa and Het nkik's synopsis, a few things to note:

-The vortex actually devours the entire ocean every 500 years, not just dolphin. You find this out from an ancient blue whale who had the knowledge passed down to him.
I wouldn't say the entire ocean, after all nobody would be left to tell the tale and repopulate the seas. ;)

-The helix being you meet is called the Asterite. What it exactly is, is never explained, but it seems to act as a god of sort for Earth. when you first meet the Asterite deep in the middle of the ocean, he is weakened and dying because one of his globes is missing.
Its origins are never explained, but the name might be a clue: aster is Latin and Greek for star, and -ite can mean "from / descendant of", among other things. Anyway, considering what happens in Ecco 2, I don't think it was dying because of a single missing globe, just weakened.


-The Asterite grants Ecco the ability to live without breathing. He no longer has to take breaths of air under water and can survive in space thanks to this. From this point on in the game, you no longer have an air meter.
Ecco still needs oxygen. The Asterite simply "gave Ecco the ability to grow gills", says Ed.


Ecco: The Tides of Time also ends on a cliffhanger and had hooks for a third game. Midway through the game you were given a useless password - it was supposed to be entered at the beginning of the third game to continue some progress and slight choice changes you made in Tides of Time.
You get the "secret password" at the end of the game, not midway. Ecco passwords are fun, they aren't actual words, but certain information encoded as an 8 character string (letters A to Z). One character is a checksum, that leaves 7 for data, just enough to encode 32 bits of data.
There's a program that can decode and encode Ecco passwords, including the "secret" ones from Ecco 2. Which turned out to be less mysterious than I had hoped.

Nice Ecco collection, by the way!
 
The Genesis version is not that different. But yeah, the first release is definitely less polished and harder. Checkpoints were introduced for the Japanese / revision 01 release, which also had two new levels, but they're nothing special (Open Ocean 2 and the already mentioned The Stomach). The additional levels in the CD version use a new tileset from Ecco 2. I guess that tileset didn't exist yet when revision 01 was made and would have required a larger ROM anyway.

There were still more changes than what I initially thought there were when I first played the Sega CD version.


Ecco PC was developed by Novotrade, just like the originals. Sega PC was the publisher, but they might not have the source code. GOG cannot do miracles with old games, sometimes they simply copy existing fanmade patches. Anyway, the original Ecco PC still works in Windows 8 and 10, actually better than ever, thanks to a fanmade launcher/patcher.

It's rare that they ever need a source code for anything when it comes to re-releases old games on GOG. DOS games are pretty trivial as they are all handled through DOSBox. Windows 9x games might be a little trickier, but Windows 10 does seem to have better compatibility for the 9x kernels, and there are generally some pretty good workarounds for a lot of these older games. On Linux and OSx Win9x can be taken care of through Wine and Cedega fairly easily if you know what you are doing.

There are a lot of old Sega PC that they could resell. Ecco PC, Sonic and Knukcles Collection, Sonic 3D Blast, Virtua Fighter PC, Virtua Fighter 2, Last Bronx, Bug!, Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Cop, The House of the Dead, Typing of the Dead, Manx TT Super Bike, Sega Rally '95, Daytona USA, Daytona USA Deluxe (Maybe not because of licensing rights), Sega Touring Car Championship, Sonic R and a bunch of others.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
The Genesis version is not that different. But yeah, the first release is definitely less polished and harder. Checkpoints were introduced for the Japanese / revision 01 release, which also had two new levels, but they're nothing special (Open Ocean 2 and the already mentioned The Stomach). The additional levels in the CD version use a new tileset from Ecco 2. I guess that tileset didn't exist yet when revision 01 was made and would have required a larger ROM anyway.

The Stomach actually features tiles from Ecco 2. It's more likely that those tiles were being made while Revision 01 was in the works, while the Sega CD version, coming later, got a more complete version of those tiles.
 
I personally never got past the first few stages. I thought the game was fascinating, but too hard for me at the time.

HOWEVER, to say that the game's soundtrack on my SegaCD was anything less than life-altering would be a misrepresentation it had on me. I first popped it into my CD player as a kid, deciding it would be great to fall asleep to. Decades later, I still put on the soundtracks to Ecco and Tides of Time to drift off into sleep when I'm struggling to fall asleep. Even when I'm not struggling, really. It's so relaxing.
 

Surta

Member
On Linux and OSx Win9x can be taken care of through Wine and Cedega fairly easily if you know what you are doing.
Then people must not know what they are doing, because nobody has gotten Ecco PC to work through Wine or Cedega in all those years, as far as I know.

There are a lot of old Sega PC that they could resell. Ecco PC, Sonic and Knukcles Collection, Sonic 3D Blast, Virtua Fighter PC, Virtua Fighter 2, Last Bronx, Bug!, Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Cop, The House of the Dead, Typing of the Dead, Manx TT Super Bike, Sega Rally '95, Daytona USA, Daytona USA Deluxe (Maybe not because of licensing rights), Sega Touring Car Championship, Sonic R and a bunch of others.
True, but Sega doesn't appear to care much about old PC ports, particularly if the games are available in other formats, e.g. through emulation.
Some of the games you cited are handled by Sega PC Reloaded, maybe more will be added someday.
 
Is that a woman helicopter-flying with giant breasts? What's the context?

There's almost literally no context. The main draw of the game, to me, is the physics engine being use where you can grab anything in the area, including walls, floors, the giant-breasted women (Bonitas), and snap them to do a variety of things like movement or destruction. It was made by Treasure and I really, really wished that they had used it for something less silly.

You can only hurt the Bonitas on their head or butt. You also get bonus points when killing one if you do it without touching their breasts.
 
Here's an old post I made about Ecco the Dolphin:

The game is atmospheric, beautiful, difficult, frustrating, terrifying, claustrophobic, and chilling. But I have nostalgia for the game, as I am aware a lot of people have a hard time getting the controls down at first, and the game can be very tricky.

(this post may contain some spoilers, its hard to talk about the game without spoiling it, as the user below me mentions.)

Ecco the Dolphin is the first game in a series composed of 3 games, with the last entry being on the Dreamcast (first two on the Genesis). There was also a SEGA CD version of the first Ecco game, but the only real difference was the music. But both the Genesis and CD soundtracks are amazing in their own ways, though I personally prefer the SEGA CD soundtrack.

In Ecco, you play as a dolphin, but right at the very beginning of the game, all of your dolphin friends vanish. And its up to you to go find and rescue them, and figure out what's going on. The game has you swimming around and using you Ecco Radar, which creates a pulse you can use to expel things, but must be recharged at blue crystals. You solve puzzles, rescue dolphins, and survive the hostilities of the ocean.

And the ocean is hostile. The game is very atmospheric, but also very tense. As a dolphin, you must breathe every once in a while, and so oxygen is important. On top of this, the sea is full of danger, from sharks that will come up and gobble you up, to angler fish that you see in the murky and dark depths, to other things I would rather not spoil.

But the game has an amazing atmosphere, is quite challenging, and let's say there's a very good reason the game is one of the prime examples on TV Tropes for nightmare fuel in video games, but I shall say no more.

Originally Posted by Allforce

Someone go ahead and spoil all the great/unnerving parts and/or the ending. I'm never gonna seek this out but the thread has me intrigued.
Obvious spoilers.

The game is about Ecco the Dolphin, who one day all of his dolphin friends disappear, and to find them he needs to go to where no Dolphin should ever go, the depths of the ocean. The music is very ethereal, in both versions, and you have a constant concern of hostilities in the ocean (for health) and getting oxygen before you run out. Which gets harder the deeper in the ocean you go. And the music and sort of bleak graphic style help this, as well as the fact the ocean gets darker and darker the further down you go. And there comes enemies that are tricky, can gobble you up in one bite, and just look pretty creepy (like the real ocean~).

However, what you ultimately find is artifacts way under the deep of the sea that were left here by things that used to be stationed here many many years ago. And Ecco's friends were abducted by an alien race who visits Earth every 500 years for food. They have wasted their own natural food sources, and feed upon Dolphins as they're determined to be the most intelligent animals on Earth, and intelligence is sort of a nutrient for them. You ultimately make your way into an alien ship, which is a giant cyberpunk Alien Meatgrinder where they grind up your Dolphin friends into food, and fight the Alien Queen, who looks like this. And the only way to defeat her is to mutilate her body, by takes out her jaw, tearing at her head, destroying her eyes, etc.

The second game gets more surrealistic than the first game. and starts off immediately where the first game took off. Even though the Queen has been brutally mutilated, she wasn't dead, in part that her body was being used to make something like a Hive back on Earth, as the aliens had planned to move to Earth more permanently to use its own resources for their own gain. However, Ecco meets a Dolphin with unusually large fins, and she claims she is a descendant of Ecco from a ruined future. She takes him to this future.

In the second Ecco game, you travel through time periods. The ocean apparently gains a conscious somewhere in the future, after what humans and the aliens eventually end up doing, and it is Ecco who awakens this closed consciousness. The ocean was once alive, but its consciousness was killed by the aliens many years ago. But by something Ecco did in the depths of the ocean in the first game, he has awakened in ever-so-slightly from the ancient things he found deep in the ocean. Ecco is referred to the one who "the stone that split the stream of time in two," as he has brought forth two possible futures from his actions in the first game, and he can cause either one to happen now.

There are two possible futures for the Dolphins, that you see glimpses of both through the game. One is a bright and colorful world, where dolphins have evolved into the ability to fly and have become the dominant animal on the planet who tries to hold the planets peace. The other is a dead, nightmarish, mechanical world where the aliens win. Ecco travels to the past to collect the pieces of the Ocean's consciousness, and ultimately must also travel to the dystopian future by being willingly captures and then going through strange levels. As the ocean gains it consciousness back, the ocean also creates these sky water bridges that you can take between different oceans.

The game is scarier than the first, partially as its harder somehow, but you deal with ancient huge creatures, more twisted aliens, and more twisted levels.

There's a lot of small moments in Ecco 2, I can't remember when it happens but there's this blood-looking boss that has these really long arms that you have to defeat. There's this one sky water stage where you are chased by a giant unkillable jellyfish that has some pretty scary music, and if you get hit out of the tube, you go to some previous level and have to make your way back. At the end of the game, there are some really creepy-looking enemies that can kill you in one hit and make this noise, as well as when they spot you they get glowing eyes and start chasing you.

And the game ends with the queen escaping in a larva form and escaping to the past, but she can't rule over the fearsome monsters of the ancient sea in her current state, so instead she combines with them, and becomes intergrated with Earths ecosystem, and becomes the basis for life with exosekeltons, such as insects, lobsters, and spiders.

However, the scariest game is actually probably the 3rd game, the 3D one for the Dreamcast and PS2. Firstly, the game is set in 3-dimensions, And the monsters can silently creep up from you from behind, the ocean got a lot darker and had moments of almost absolute silence, and the goals they make you do in the game are far more tense. Like there's this one where you have to sneak up on this shark that can gobble you up and get an item that is stuck in its mouth. And the music is far-more horror like.

This game bears a story in the new continuity that Ecco has created at the end of Ecco 2, which as the alien queen never evades Earth as it was destroyed in the past, but now exists as an Earth element, what happened in the first two games both never happened, but also happened as the changes made exist in this universe. The game is split into four different possible futures, and Ecco finds himself and the world in the best possible future.

In the first future, humans and Dolphins have co-existed and live in a time of tranquility for 500 years, but a new alien race, known as the Foe, are attracted to Earth by the remains of the previous alien race and want what the humans and Dolphins have. They hold the aliens off, but they are not deterred, and suicidally try to find a weakpoint in a barrier that the humans and Dolphins made. They eventually make a weakpoint in a Dolphin city, and Ecco needs to go repair it, but is too late. However, the ship of the Foe creates a gate through time, and the Foe destroy the consciousness of the ocean again, though Ecco manages to defeat them. However, when Ecco returns to his time, he finds Dolphins have become a barely sentimental being and are weak, stupid, and gullible. and that humans are long-extinct.

In this future, man killed themselves off and left the planet in a wreck, with murky water, leftovers of machines, and Dolphins have split into different tribes sort of at war with each other for the last resources on Earth. Ecco restores two of the Oceans consciousness pieces though, which in turn changes the future again.

Ecco restores Intelligence and Ambition to Dolphins, but have made this future where Dolphins are tyrants of the Sea. They have forced humans off the oceans, and banished them unless they wish to be killed. They also look down on all other sea life, especially whales, and capture and use whales to be a source of energy for their cities. They also banish Dolphins who don't believe the general Dolphins beliefs in a banished village, which Ecco starts off in. Ecco restores two more pieces, Compassion and Wisdom, and changes the future once again.

In the last future possibility, Dolphins and Humans once again live in piece, but the last piece needed has caused Humans and Dolphins to lose the war, and the Foe to have won over the Earth.

This game has far more nightmarish elements in my opinion. There's a level where you're in a nearly black cave and there's this giant Eel who's hunting you and can eat you in one gulp, and can come out of holes in the walls. There's a later-game stage where Sharks have become ghostly creatures with sunken faces and glowing eyes in the dark tat wait and slowly come at you, soundless. Then there's a level where you find Dolphin skeletons and there's these shadow Dolphins that go across the walls. And then in the final levels you go through an area full of alien eggs, and break into the alien queen, and I shit you not, through tearing through her vagina. You then go through her body, tear back out through her bladder, then burrow through her rib-cage, and have to go destroy her heart. And there's more, but that's what I recalled and TV Tropes helped me remember some.

Only game I haven't played, and I just remembered existed, is Ecco Jr.. And all games rated E for Everyone.

There we go.

Yeah ok, Ecco The Dolphin wins.
 

Tizoc

Member
Well, the Sega CD version is also missing the exclusive level in the Japanese version of Ecco 1: The Stomach. That is a bizarre level that kind of feels unfinished. It's weird given the release schedule too:

Genesis/EU Ecco -> JPN Megadrive Ecco -> World Sega CD release

That means they added a level after the Genesis/EU release of ecco, then removed it again for the world sega CD release. But in it's place, lots of other levels got small tweaks and 6 extra levels not in the other versions.

The Sega PC version of Ecco the Dolphin 1 is the ultimate release, however. It has everything the Sega CD version has, plus some of the graphics were redrawn, it has extra use of color, and the game itself uses the superior Ecco the Tides of Time sprite:

CZTy9fn.png

Genesis/Sega CD sprites

So8kqBz.png

Ecco PC

it also has the videos from Ecco: The Tides of Time CD, but they use 256 color.

I was watching a video about the Ecco series when I cam to this thread...and your post.
What about Ecco 2, what's the best ver.?
 
The 8-bit ports of these games were really good too, all things considered. They may have looked incredibly ugly, but they played very faithfully and had the level layouts intact.

BTW:

ryJBJE6.jpg

This isn't a complete Ecco collection!
Ecco_Jr.jpg


I had Jr as a kid and liked it, mostly because I liked the ocean. It's not as trippy as the "real" game.
 

mr_chun

Member
I must not have gotten very far as a kid, cause I don't remember a damn thing about aliens being in this game. All I remember doing is swimming around, headbutting stuff, talking to dolphins, and not knowing where or what or who the hell I was supposed to be doing.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
I played this a ton when I was just a bit too young to understand what the heck was going on. The game meant a lot to me, it was incredibly atmospheric, and I had a huge amount of fun just screwing around and barely making it through the early levels (I think the furthest I ever made it until I was older was getting to the Big Blue). The best was when I started using the level select codes that I found in GamePro to jump around to random levels. Oh wow, Atlantis... Jurassic Beach... Imagine my surprise once I started going past certain parts...
 
Top Bottom