This is the formula for fucking Friday the 13th.
Alien Covenant is a nicely shot Friday the 13th movie. Congrats Ridley Scott.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS
- Thread starter Toa TAK
- Start date
Alien Covenant is a nicely shot Friday the 13th movie. Congrats Ridley Scott.
Dash_Riprock
Member
The aliens' intelligence in this movie is bizarre as fuck. When Neomorphs are born they go straight into kill-anything-that-moves mode and just bum rush everything on sight. Then one just randomly seems to gain some intelligence: it seems intrigued at first by that one chick before it rips her head off, then its whole baby-talk scene with David.
Yet the Xenomorph is the reverse; when the first one is born it seems to have some intelligence as it raises its arms towards David, yet later it and the second one are just mindless killing machines.
Well then he failed utterly if Alien and Aliens is anything to go by. So much for his "Perfect" creatures.
Why the fuck should any care or ponder about Daniels' fate at all when Shaw was dumped off screen?
What were the gooey things in David's mouth at the end? It wasn't the black goo that made stuff
Why when all your crew mates were just brutally murdered would you go and have sex in a shower?
Why would you land 8km from where the signal was on the planet, then walk? We saw flat terrain during their walk that looked the same as where they landed?
Why would the Captain walk into a dark room with David and stick his head in an egg when the Captain just saw him talking to an Alien and allowing it to rip apart that women. The Captain equally just said out loud "I DO NOT TRUST YOU"
Would they not have to kinda call management on Earth to get a yay or nay on going to a whole new planet nowhere near the one they chose?
The pacing. The characters. The 'Ill do the fingering'. Any outlet that gave this anywhere near a decent review deserves to be ignored. It's amusing Daniels was being referred to as the 'lead' of the film. The way the film was structured this is just not true, she's just one of the ones that didn't die - and there is a difference, despite that often being one and the same.
Prometheus was by far a better film and that was a dumb film.
What were the gooey things in David's mouth at the end? It wasn't the black goo that made stuff
Why when all your crew mates were just brutally murdered would you go and have sex in a shower?
Why would you land 8km from where the signal was on the planet, then walk? We saw flat terrain during their walk that looked the same as where they landed?
Why would the Captain walk into a dark room with David and stick his head in an egg when the Captain just saw him talking to an Alien and allowing it to rip apart that women. The Captain equally just said out loud "I DO NOT TRUST YOU"
Would they not have to kinda call management on Earth to get a yay or nay on going to a whole new planet nowhere near the one they chose?
The pacing. The characters. The 'Ill do the fingering'. Any outlet that gave this anywhere near a decent review deserves to be ignored. It's amusing Daniels was being referred to as the 'lead' of the film. The way the film was structured this is just not true, she's just one of the ones that didn't die - and there is a difference, despite that often being one and the same.
Prometheus was by far a better film and that was a dumb film.
There are a huge number of Alien call backs in this, but one that really annoyed me was David calling it "the perfect organism". Why? What made it perfect? How was it better than the white ones? It has a more complex life cycle and appears to be *much* dumber, given it charges straight ahead and falls into traps three times as a result. The original alien was a curious, methodical, relentless creature. Seemingly indestructable.
When Ash called it that, he had a specific reason.
"You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? The perfect organism. A survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality."
That described the alien we saw in that film. The ones in this one are dumb, hyper active attack dogs. There's nothing perfect about them.
When Ash called it that, he had a specific reason.
"You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? The perfect organism. A survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality."
That described the alien we saw in that film. The ones in this one are dumb, hyper active attack dogs. There's nothing perfect about them.
well no not really. i mean it seems to go pretty well in line with his character, really. embittered that his creator did not think him an equal, lacking a soul, the creative human spark... and what have you. so he lashes out against humans, thinking theyre a dead and doomed species, genocides THEIR creators, and creates a creature that is a pure destructive force. this is all in movie isnt it?
how so?
Well, you see, the reason is that David didn't actually create the perfect organism in Alien Covenant. This was just a flawed prototype. David's gonna succeed in the next Alien movie using the body of Daniels.
David is angry that his creators assume he lacks a creative spark...
So he intentionally makes a monster dumber than a sack of bricks? Is this part of the same amazing characterization that made him spike a drink out of the blue with some unknown alien substance?
I mean, ffs, he practically made a virus that can fuck people up throughout whatever orifice it enters in the body THAT THEN makes a physical creature that will follow suit.
What more do you want?
Astral Dog
Member
David wanted to feel special
Dash_Riprock
Member
How about keep it as a virus and not turn it into a stupid facehugger that makes infecting people and creating more aliens ten times harder?
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
Why is the OG Xenomorph created by David the only variant of Alien that visually embodies the aesthetics, architecture, and technology of the engineers?
It makes no goddamn sense why David's variant would look like that. If anything, THAT would be what the goo virus creates, because at least all the tubes and ridges on its body have a reason for looking like the Derelict ship interior.
Does anyone understand this?
It makes no goddamn sense why David's variant would look like that. If anything, THAT would be what the goo virus creates, because at least all the tubes and ridges on its body have a reason for looking like the Derelict ship interior.
Does anyone understand this?
well the monster's intelligence is somewhat irrelevant isnt it? he clearly seems some beauty in it i guess. theres a line somewhere in Prometheus where he asks Shaw's boyfriend (i forgot his name lol) something to the effect of, wouldnt you be disappointed if you found out your creator made you just because he could? seems like david creates what he wants because he can
as for the drink spiking in Prometheus yeah, his motivations arent well established there. its definitely something of a flaw in that movie. whether his characterization is amazing or not is partly your judgment but to say he acts irrationally, or more accurately, incoherently isnt exaaactly true. there's SOMETHING there
Astral Dog
Member
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
Why couldn't they just keep these fucking movies simple?
All we wanted to see was what happened at LV 426, and hopefully what monstrosity bursted out of the Space Jockey.
That would have been an infinitely more interesting story to me. Think about it.
One human born Alien took out the entire Nostromo. One Space Jockey Alien would be TERRIFYING. I know its supposed to be the "Deacon" but thats just more horse shit to me. I'm done considering this new plot canon.
All we wanted to see was what happened at LV 426, and hopefully what monstrosity bursted out of the Space Jockey.
That would have been an infinitely more interesting story to me. Think about it.
One human born Alien took out the entire Nostromo. One Space Jockey Alien would be TERRIFYING. I know its supposed to be the "Deacon" but thats just more horse shit to me. I'm done considering this new plot canon.
Starting with the Engineer version of the alien and having David experimenting it down to white ones (neomorphs?) would actually make sense. Too much sense for Scott.
That's exactly what the original script for Alien: Engineers was. It wasn't great but at least it was an actual prequel.
Basically how I felt about this movie. I cannot stand movies that rely on the characters being stupid to advance the plot. Hated the movie.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS
pants
Member
Osama Bot Laden strikes again
Shaw being killed off-screen isn't even a big issue for me. Didn't like her one bit, partly because she suffered from the annoying-couple-syndrome.
The thing that happened off-screen which bothers me tho, is David's arc. Man, that guy likes "Lawrence of Arabia". What made him go mad?
Oh btw, Ripley was in Prometheus, too, but she got split into two characters.
The religious subtext in the sequels is also executed poorly. They shouldn't have used the "creator" idea the way they did. Didn't they reveal that life in the universe has been "engineered"? Which means there's bascially no more room for religion. It's all over the place, which would have been fine in a philosophical art-house movie, but that's not what we've got. Maybe Scott was going for a nihilistic theme, where David does what he does, because he can (like a toddler building a sand castle just to destroy it later) vs. Shaw choosing to believe....cool, but both movies in their execution kinda distract from such complex topics.
The thing that happened off-screen which bothers me tho, is David's arc. Man, that guy likes "Lawrence of Arabia". What made him go mad?
Oh btw, Ripley was in Prometheus, too, but she got split into two characters.
The religious subtext in the sequels is also executed poorly. They shouldn't have used the "creator" idea the way they did. Didn't they reveal that life in the universe has been "engineered"? Which means there's bascially no more room for religion. It's all over the place, which would have been fine in a philosophical art-house movie, but that's not what we've got. Maybe Scott was going for a nihilistic theme, where David does what he does, because he can (like a toddler building a sand castle just to destroy it later) vs. Shaw choosing to believe....cool, but both movies in their execution kinda distract from such complex topics.
Again I think the point of the monster's intelligence is irrelevant. David could have simply built another android if that's what he wanted. That's why I think his motivations are just that of an artist, which is clearly the image he's trying to project. He motivated simply to create and destroy, to create something that will only destroy. You know, the whole bit that Ash goes on about unclouded by guilt or remorse or whatever it is he says. They appear to be the same thing to him.
Oh, speaking of "Lawrence of Arabia". Any ideas why they chose it as David's favourite film?
I mean LoA had this "nothing is written" theme and a protagonist who kinda looses his "place in the world" and tries to find a new one. But that's far fetched, I guess.
I think they chose the wrong scene of LoA in Prometheus, though. If they'd gone with the scene where Lawrence executes that one guy it could've explained David's vanishing sense of (human) morality. Missed opportunity.
I mean LoA had this "nothing is written" theme and a protagonist who kinda looses his "place in the world" and tries to find a new one. But that's far fetched, I guess.
I think they chose the wrong scene of LoA in Prometheus, though. If they'd gone with the scene where Lawrence executes that one guy it could've explained David's vanishing sense of (human) morality. Missed opportunity.
Tony Redgrave
Member
I don't get why people are discussing the intelligence of the Xeno, it isn't supossed to be a hyper intelligent and crafty creature, it's supossed to be the definitive feral apex predator.
David considers both humans and Engineers failures, their civilizations are just monuments to their vanity and delusions of grandeur (hence the link to Shelley's Ozymandias) and he's out to create a new, pure lifeform.
Ash describes it perfectly in Alien, perfect organism, it's structural perfection only matched by its hostility, no conscience, remorse or delusions of morality. The Alien is supossed to lack reason, that's David's whole point, that's why it is pure. It won't ever create a civilization or literature, or art or anything it will just exist for hunting and preserving it's species. Seems stupidly nihilistic but that's David's reasoning.
Was the 'big chap' more intelligent? Supossedly yes but he's not only more advanced, it also found itself in different circumstances, it always had the upper hand and the crew of the Nostromo were mostly unarmed. The Xeno's behaviour it this movie is similar to the ones in Aliens, I see no problem with it.
David considers both humans and Engineers failures, their civilizations are just monuments to their vanity and delusions of grandeur (hence the link to Shelley's Ozymandias) and he's out to create a new, pure lifeform.
Ash describes it perfectly in Alien, perfect organism, it's structural perfection only matched by its hostility, no conscience, remorse or delusions of morality. The Alien is supossed to lack reason, that's David's whole point, that's why it is pure. It won't ever create a civilization or literature, or art or anything it will just exist for hunting and preserving it's species. Seems stupidly nihilistic but that's David's reasoning.
Was the 'big chap' more intelligent? Supossedly yes but he's not only more advanced, it also found itself in different circumstances, it always had the upper hand and the crew of the Nostromo were mostly unarmed. The Xeno's behaviour it this movie is similar to the ones in Aliens, I see no problem with it.
Fancy Clown
Member
I think it's less the lack of intelligence that bothered me about the Alien in this movie (although I could have done with less "jumping into heavy machinery to off themselves, and more power cutting) and more the lack of grace. What made the alien so creepy in the first movie is how elegant and graceful it is. It moves slowly and seductively, which plays on its sexual and mysterious nature. This movie captured that with the goofy but oddly beautiful chestbursting scene, but then it was just a feral creature like the neomorph once it's grown. The movie didn't make a case for it being an improvement, or even a distinction, from the neomorph at all. David is an aesthete, so his perfect organism would be something "beautiful" in its behavior as well as design.
I also wouldn't have minded so much the feral behavior if the action were staged and shot better, but in the end the xenomorph sequences were weaksauce compared to the neomorph set-pieces.
I also wouldn't have minded so much the feral behavior if the action were staged and shot better, but in the end the xenomorph sequences were weaksauce compared to the neomorph set-pieces.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
So what happened to the Aliens on the Engineer planet? David infected all the engineers so shouldn't hundreds of Aliens be running around?
Black cum just kills and breaks down your DNA,Neomorphs come from the goo evolving over the years and David's tinkering
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Didn't it turn someone into an alien in promethius?
Also I thought david implied that there was no life on the planet because aliens killed everything
Looked like facehugger fetuses to me.
Yes I suppose, but it would make more sense to me for an egg to gestate the hugger, rather the just visually have a facehugger fetuse.
charliebear
Neo Member
I walked out the cinema pretty much not knowing how I felt about it. It was okay. Guess I wanted more alien or more Prometheus. Not sure this satisfied either.
I saw David, now looking back at Prometheus, as lost and resenting humans. Finding the black liquid and testing it in the drink in Prometheus meant he had found a way to create. Maybe not perfection as such but like in the way he was built because humans could, he could now do the same. The goo has given the freedom of creativity afforded by humans to him. And I guess he will just keep playing until he gets to the original Alien. Which I can see being part him. Perhaps realising upon his death as it bursts out of him that he got what he wanted. Managed to make his own 'son' like Weyland.
I saw David, now looking back at Prometheus, as lost and resenting humans. Finding the black liquid and testing it in the drink in Prometheus meant he had found a way to create. Maybe not perfection as such but like in the way he was built because humans could, he could now do the same. The goo has given the freedom of creativity afforded by humans to him. And I guess he will just keep playing until he gets to the original Alien. Which I can see being part him. Perhaps realising upon his death as it bursts out of him that he got what he wanted. Managed to make his own 'son' like Weyland.
No, it just mutated him. That's the DNA breakdown part, same with the worms becoming Hammerpedes
And technically Neomorphs did kill every life on that planet, but David controlled every death and Alien birth, that's how he got his horror fair in his room. When he ran out of Subjects, he decides to "wake" Shaw.
Warm Machine
Member
And ten times less direct and controllable.
According to this book the planet in the film IS the Engineer homeworld and the hooded people on the planet were in fact Engineers.
It kinda fits if you look at the extended Prometheus opening, which had several of them wearing similar hoods.
I guess maybe they send out the best most top of the line Engineers out on missions is why they looks a bit slimmer and not so "perfect" as the Engineers in Prometheus?
NealMcCauley
Member
Maybe it's a roundabout way to return to the Dallas turning into an egg idea. When the fetus is implanted the body breaks down and turns into an egg as the facehugger grows. Maybe xenos are able to create these fetuses, and the purpose of the second jaw is to pass the fetus to a host.
Just spitballing though.
Fancy Clown
Member
I think it was probably a budget thing. All the makeup/prosthetics it took to create the engineers in Prometheus weren't worth it for such a brief large scale scene. That, or they tweaked the design because people made fun of how the engineer looked in Prometheus.
NealMcCauley
Member
The engineer in Prometheus is presumably 2,000 years old too. Maybe they just evolved slightly.
Artbook worth picking up?
At this point it's unclear if Scott even considers Aliens to be canon. I doubt he's really taking AvP into consideration at all. Though if David discovers a time machine and uses it to plant xenomorph eggs on Earth in early 21st century, that would be quite a development
I don't think Ridley Scott considers Alien canon.
bigsnack
Member
Maybe the beefy engineers in Prometheus represent the Engineer's military? It was referenced as such in Prometheus I believe.
That thought has also crossed my mind, though as you see in the alternate opening the Engineers do look quite different from each other. But yeah, it's quite possible it was just a budget question since we see them only for a flash in Alien Covenant.
Not sure, that pic and info was from the Alien subreddit, I'm thinking about picking up the book though. Love making of books.
I just listened to the EMPIRE film podcast the other day and Ridley Scott Was a guest. Apparently he never once mentioned any of the other Alien films part from Alien and Prometheus to anybody on set. I guess he very possibly doesn't even consider what happens in them.
Yeah, something like that is what I was speculating.
We see aliens popping out of the engineers in the David bombing scene.
This was actually the cause of a lot of debate earlier in the thread because a lot of people remember it like that while a lot of people remember the goo just sort of petrifying the engineers (I'm one of the latter).
Fancy Clown
Member
Yeah I definitely didn't see any aliens popping out of the engineers. It looked like more or less what happened to the engineer at the beginning of Prometheus, except getting covered in goo instead of being totally broken down.
I was promised suspense like the first alien movie and I got none of that. Just more lore nonsense that was extremely disappointing distraction from what I thought this series was about. I even prefer alien vs predator to this filth.
Shower scene, alien inside burned face guy, even David or Walter 'surprise' - it's amateur hour at the movies. What happened to quality movie making?
Yuck.
Shower scene, alien inside burned face guy, even David or Walter 'surprise' - it's amateur hour at the movies. What happened to quality movie making?
Yuck.
Chozoman
Banned
He doesn't spike the drink out of nowhere. He spikes it after Weyland tell him to "Try Harder" to understand the workings of the alien "goo" tech and only after Holloway says he's willing to do "Anything and everything" to get the answers he came for.
https://youtu.be/AffWSEMuJ8A
https://youtu.be/jRa_xmJ4zXg
s_mirage
Member
I've seen the film twice now, and I made sure to pay particular attention to this scene the second time. It definitely gave me the impression that something was bursting out of some of the engineers, but it could just be black ooze jetting out/solidifying. I didn't see anything identifiable as an alien.
To be honest the scene moves so quickly that they could have hidden something in there, so it might be interesting to examine when there's a home release.