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SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion

DangerStepp

DangerStepp

Member
I have trouble reconciling Booker's memories throughout the game versus his revelation at the end.

He knows he gave his daughter up (shown in his refusal to discuss "Anna" when asked by Elizabeth), but can't remember Comstock taking Anna or the fact that Elizabeth could be her? I realize that he is formulating memories from his alternate universe and what not, but his blatant refusal to discuss his daughter is weird. It makes you wonder what memories were constructed in order to fill the void of what he didn't remember.

I understand everything else (for the most part), but these details are eating at me.

You would think, at least, Elizabeth's age being the same length of time since he sold Anna would raise some questions within Booker.

Again, sorry if I'm late with this but this thread is enormous--even at 100 ppp
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
Yea wouldn't Comstock and forces know Booker named his daughter Anna? Ok I get it, then they were just checking her name, then you meet the guy on the phone asking what to do with the situation.
 
T

Trigger

Member
DangerStepp said:
I have trouble reconciling Booker's memories throughout the game versus his revelation at the end.

He knows he gave his daughter up (shown in his refusal to discuss "Anna" when asked by Elizabeth), but can't remember Comstock taking Anna or the fact that Elizabeth could be her?

You would think the evidence such as Elizabeth's age being the same length of time since he sold Anna would raise some questions within Booker.

Again, sorry if I'm late with this but this thread is enormous--even at 100 ppp
Click to expand...

"The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist..."

He more than likely suppressed that knowledge subconsciously and filled in the gaps with his own explanations.

xxjuicesxx said:
Yea wouldn't Comstock and forces know Booker named his daughter Anna? Ok I get it, then they were just checking her name, then you meet the guy on the phone asking what to do with the situation.
Click to expand...

Most of Colombia is in the dark about Elizabeth/Anna's true origins. If they knew the truth they's lose faith in him.
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
DangerStepp said:
I have trouble reconciling Booker's memories throughout the game versus his revelation at the end.

He knows he gave his daughter up (shown in his refusal to discuss "Anna" when asked by Elizabeth), but can't remember Comstock taking Anna or the fact that Elizabeth could be her?

You would think the evidence such as Elizabeth's age being the same length of time since he sold Anna would raise some questions within Booker.

Again, sorry if I'm late with this but this thread is enormous--even at 100 ppp
Click to expand...

Booker being pulled into a different timeline with an existing Booker (i.e. Comstock) messed him up. His memories got jumbled up and the only thing he held onto was the "bring us the girl and wipe away the debt" mantra and a vague person by the name of "Anna," and made stuff up to fill in the gaps everywhere else.

The Luteces kept that charade going willingly as it was a way for them to control the situation (specifically the variables). They manipulated him further with threats and such to keep him on mission.
 
M

Metroidvania

People called Romanes they go the house?
Trigger said:
"The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist..."

He more than likely suppressed that knowledge subconsciously and filled in the gaps with his own explanations.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the disjointed memory effect of transferring universes through the tear machine (which appears to be much more unfinished/complete compared to Liz's tears due to it causing cancer/tumors/premature aging and such, potentially adding more confusion) combined with Booker's guilt (i.e. carving AD into his hand) seem to be the explanation
 
M

McBradders

NeoGAF: my new HOME
Salamando said:
Part of me wondered if the Lutece's were forcing Booker to make a choice, and thus create a branch. One where he picked the bird, one where he picked the cage. An additional branch doubles the likelihood some Booker succeeds.
Click to expand...

Damn that's good and satisfying. I'll take it, thanks :D
 
E

Escape Goat

Member
Trigger said:
"The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist..."

He more than likely suppressed that knowledge subconsciously and filled in the gaps with his own explanations.



Most of Colombia is in the dark about Elizabeth/Anna's true origins. If they knew the truth they's lose faith in him.
Click to expand...

They think Lady Comstock gave birth after being pregnant 7 days. I'd say the people of Columbia is in the dark about a lot of things.
 
S

SmithnCo

Member
From the artbook:

"The artists agonized over every visual detail, striving to make each Vigor bottle something you'd be delighted to have as a real object on your shelf."

I wish. I love the design of the bottles.
 
T

Truant

Member
What's weird to me is that Liz didn't know Comstock.

She says she always hated her mom, but she never knew about Comstock? Her childhood and upbringing seems a little fuzzy to me. I mean, she was in her tower, but she never really questioned why.
 
S

Salamando

Member
Metroidvania said:
Yeah, the disjointed memory effect of transferring universes through the tear machine (which appears to be much more unfinished/complete compared to Liz's tears due to it causing cancer/tumors/premature aging and such, potentially adding more confusion) combined with Booker's guilt (i.e. carving AD into his hand) seem to be the explanation
Click to expand...

The disjointed memory/cognitive dissonance from entering new universes is the main thing that confuses me now. Seems like the universe "universe-stamps" itself onto a persons mind, and should a universe find an entity with a wrong "universe-stamp", it overwrites some of the entity's memories with those of the entity native to that universe. The physical indicator of this being the bloody nose. Mostly evident from guards remembering they were dead and Dewitt remembering working with the Vox/Slate.

However, when Dewitt is brought to the Comstock timeline, he initially has that "has to create memories where none exist". Is this because Dewitt and Comstock are initially different enough that the universe doesn't recognize them as the same entity? Later, after Dewitt's "baptism", he remembers Comstock's vision of Columbia scorching New York. Did the baptism render him similar enough to Comstock that the universe decided it was a good time to give him some memories?
 
B

blindrocket

Member
Why was Slate (I think that his name was Slate) saying that Comstock never fought in the battles?

Fake edit:
Perhaps it just clicked with me. Was it because Slate knew him as Booker, but did not know him as this Comstock fellow?

MIND BLOWN
 
T

Trigger

Member
SmithnCo said:
From the artbook:

"The artists agonized over every visual detail, striving to make each Vigor bottle something you'd be delighted to have as a real object on your shelf."

I wish. I love the design of the bottles.
Click to expand...

I was highly disappointed to find out there aren't any available for purchase. The designs are sick.

Escape Goat said:
They think Lady Comstock gave birth after being pregnant 7 days. I'd say the people of Columbia is in the dark about a lot of things.
Click to expand...

Spoken like a true heretic!
 
U

ultron87

Member
blindrocket said:
Why was Slate (I think that his name was Slate) saying that Comstock never fought in the battles?

Fake edit:
Perhaps it just clicked with me. Was it because Slate knew him as Booker, but did not know him as this Comstock fellow?

MIND BLOWN
Click to expand...

Yep! I was really impressed when I figured this detail out. Though that only works for Wounded Knee.

Comstock was in charge of Columbia during the Boxer Revolt but apparently just wasn't ever on the ground.
 
G

Guevara

Member
logo.png


Did you know Lutèce was a French restaurant in Manhattan that operated for more than 40 years before closing in early 2004. Julia Child and a panel of food critics for Playboy magazine each proclaimed Lutèce the best restaurant in the United States, a rank it held in the Zagat's survey for six consecutive years in the 1980s. It's been mentioned in:

  • Mad Men
  • James Bond
  • And a few movies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lut%C3%A8ce_(restaurant)
 
M

Metroidvania

People called Romanes they go the house?
Truant said:
What's weird to me is that Liz didn't know Comstock.

She says she always hated her mom, but she never knew about Comstock? Her childhood and upbringing seems a little fuzzy to me. I mean, she was in her tower, but she never really questioned why.
Click to expand...

I believe that somewhere around the Lady Comstock fight states that Liz was in Comstock's house for a while before Lady Comstock couldn't stand Liz being around. Could be wrong, though.

It could also be that Comstock used Lady Comstock's hatred of Liz as an excuse to tell Liz why she had to be locked in the tower, hence Liz's rage at her.

The disjointed memory/cognitive dissonance from entering new universes is the main thing that confuses me now. Seems like the universe "universe-stamps" itself onto a persons mind, and should a universe find an entity with a wrong "universe-stamp", it overwrites some of the entity's memories with those of the entity native to that universe. The physical indicator of this being the bloody nose. Mostly evident from guards remembering they were dead and Dewitt remembering working with the Vox/Slate.

However, when Dewitt is brought to the Comstock timeline, he initially has that "has to create memories where none exist". Is this because Dewitt and Comstock are initially different enough that the universe doesn't recognize them as the same entity? Later, after Dewitt's "baptism", he remembers Comstock's vision of Columbia scorching New York. Did the baptism render him similar enough to Comstock that the universe decided it was a good time to give him some memories?
Click to expand...

The whole 'how many/which' memories get transferred over is not well understood. On the entering of Comstock's universe, Booker was smacked in the metaphorical head with Comstock's memories, which mixed with his own to create his narrative of 'save the girl, wipe away the debt' to mean Elizabeth (after being 'briefed' by the Luteces)

Another partial contradiction is that when Booker kills Comstock, he himself does not suddenly get hit with the memory of dying thusly and go catatonic, but instead only has a memory nosebleed which could be from the details of a memory regarding Liz's finger arising. Whether or not it's plot armor or Comstock is 'separate' enough from Booker to not inspire the same level of memory overload is unknown.

edit: Also, where does it say the preacher at the beginning is blind? It obviously makes sense, but I must have missed it being pointed out in the beginning?
 
L

lingiii

Banned
ilnadmy said:
Well, Comstock never was at the Boxer Rebellion. He wasn't Booker anymore at that point, and he was in charge of Columbia.
Click to expand...

?? Comstock flew Columbia to the Boxer Rebellion. that's the whole reason it seceded then: Washington wasn't happy about it.
 
U

ultron87

Member
lingiii said:
?? Comstock flew Columbia to the Boxer Rebellion. that's the whole reason it seceded then: Washington wasn't happy about it.
Click to expand...

Slate's issue seems to be that he led the Columbia troops on the ground but got no credit for it while Comstock gave himself all the glory in the Boxer Revolt exhibit. Slate also thinks Comstock is just outright lying about Wounded Knee, but that exhibit is actually closer to the truth.
 
P

pixelat3d

Member
Guevara said:
Did you know gaming:

Did you know Lutèce was a French restaurant in Manhattan that operated for more than 40 years before closing in early 2004. Julia Child and a panel of food critics for Playboy magazine each proclaimed Lutèce the best restaurant in the United States, a rank it held in the Zagat's survey for six consecutive years in the 1980s. It's been mentioned in:

  • Mad Men
  • James Bond
  • And a few movies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lut%C3%A8ce_(restaurant)
Click to expand...

Wrong significance ; )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutetia
 
S

sappyday

Member
Everything in 1999 mode has been fairly easy, not even the Handyman caused me that much trouble, however, the Lady Comstock ghost is really goddamn annoying and frustrating. Anyone have any tips on how to defeat her?
 
T

Trigger

Member
Crunched said:
Booker says that explicitly, and I don't think he's an unreliable narrator in the sense that he outright lies about his past. He's always honest, he's just not always right.
Click to expand...

Ah, ok. I probably forgot that after going through several tears this morning. :p

sappyday said:
Everything in 1999 mode has been fairly easy, not even the Handyman caused me that much trouble, however, the Lady Comstock ghost is really goddamn annoying and frustrating. Anyone have any tips on how to defeat her?
Click to expand...

Cheeeeeese that bitch.

Fight 1) Hide in the crypt with the medkits.
Fight 2)Snipe at her from the vault entrance.
Fight 3) Grab the sniper rifle and pick at her from a safe corner (there's a safe corner near the vending machines).

Lady Comstock is a real low point gameplay wise.
 
S

sn00zer

Member
I owuld just like to say the names in this game were very well done
Booker Dewitt is probably the best videogame main character name Ive ever heard
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
Loved the multiverse angle (I'm a sucker for time travel stories, and this fit the mold).

Most memorable moments/vistas: first tear into modernity, NY getting fucked in 1984 and, obviously, Rapture. Last one caught me completely off guard, kudos for that, game!


The gameplay is serviceable, but you can't help but feel disappointed compared to the smart story. Because it is smart, and it's interesting, and you want to see it through, but there's all this shooting and filler you have to go through to get there. I can't help but feel that I agree with Evilore and others that this game probably would've been better served (as in, the piece of art/statement, not its financial viability as a product) if it had ditched much of the conventional shooter gameplay.

I liked it.


edit: special shoutout to the Lutece dialogues, great voice work there.
 
E

Escape Goat

Member
sn00zer said:
I owuld just like to say the names in this game were very well done
Booker Dewitt is probably the best videogame main character name Ive ever heard
Click to expand...

Bryce Dewitt

He systematically approached the quantization of general relativity, in particular, developed canonical quantum gravity and manifestly covariant methods that use the heat kernel. B. DeWitt formulated the Wheeler-deWitt equation for the wavefunction of the Universe with John Archibald Wheeler and advanced the formulation of the Hugh Everett's many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. With his student Larry Smarr he originated the field of numerical relativity.

history is fun!. Also, Comstock was some religious nut that actually existed as well.
 
G

Guevara

Member
I was thinking Anthony Comstock

Anthony Comstock (March 7, 1844 – September 21, 1915) was a United States Postal Inspector and politician dedicated to ideas of Victorian morality....The Comstock Act,[1] enacted March 3, 1873, was a United States federal law which amended the Post Office Act[2] and made it illegal to send any "obscene, lewd, and/or lascivious" materials through the mail, including contraceptive devices and information. In addition to banning contraceptives, this act also banned the distribution of information on abortion for educational purposes. Twenty-four states passed similar prohibitions on materials distributed within the states.[3] These state and federal restrictions are collectively known as the Comstock laws.
​
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Comstock
 
Q

Quesa

Member
On last question: How are the Luteces not dead? How can they live long enough (especially since tears/radiation would age them) to see 122/123+ bookers through the Columbia "process"?
 
D

Dance Inferno

Unconfirmed Member
Haunted said:
The gameplay is serviceable, but you can't help but feel disappointed compared to the smart story. Because it is smart, and it's interesting, and you want to see it through, but there's all this shooting and filler you have to go through to get there. I can't help but feel that I agree with Evilore and others that this game probably would've been better served (as in, the piece of art/statement, not its financial viability as a product) if it had ditched much of the conventional shooter gameplay.
Click to expand...

Am I the only one who really enjoyed its shooter mechanics? I would much rather play an FPS with Infinite's mechanics than your average COD/Battlefield clone. Zipping around skylines doing flying strikes, unleashing murders of crows to stunlock your enemies, clearing airships by jumping onto them and Undertowing everyone off the edge, that shit never gets old.
 
E

ElzarTheBam

Member
ilnadmy said:
Am I the only one who really enjoyed its shooter mechanics? I would much rather play an FPS with Infinite's mechanics than your average COD/Battlefield clone. Zipping around skylines doing flying strikes, unleashing murders of crows to stunlock your enemies, clearing airships by jumping onto them and Undertowing everyone off the edge, that shit never gets old.
Click to expand...

When every element of the sandbox was in play. I enjoyed it more then the majority of the shooters this gen.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
ilnadmy said:
Am I the only one who really enjoyed its shooter mechanics? I would much rather play an FPS with Infinite's mechanics than your average COD/Battlefield clone. Zipping around skylines doing flying strikes, unleashing murders of crows to stunlock your enemies, clearing airships by jumping onto them and Undertowing everyone off the edge, that shit never gets old.
Click to expand...
Oh, it's absolutely much better than your average CoD/BF clone.

But I can't help feel it's kinda pedestrian compared to the intelligence and depth of the story.
 
T

Team Klimt

Member
Ape_Agape said:
On last question: How are the Luteces not dead? How can they live long enough (especially since tears/radiation would age them) to see 122/123+ bookers through the Columbia "process"?
Click to expand...

They reveal in one of the voxophones that they were dissolved into the ether or somesuch because Fink destroyed their machine while they were using it. They are basically apparitions that can travel freely between any of the universes.
 
S

sssstententen

Member
Is the complete lack of sexual or romantic tension between Booker and Elizabeth a deliberate hint to their relation? Because obviously Elizabeth is stunning, and is canonically pretty. And Booker is practically sex on legs if you take it from the rest of female columbia (can't recall how many times women made remarks about his looks or flirting with him).

If you put the two together it doesn't make any sense other than the fact they feel a familial connection. I think the breast size change was deliberate in making her seem like a daughter figure as well.

Would've been interesting to see them have some sort of tension, however small, even intellectually. Would have thrown me off the trail for a while longer had they pulled a Luke and Leia on us.

Sure didn't stop me the player from falling in love with her character though.

Edit: I want to make it clear that I don't feel games require romance or sex appeal to round out character development, only that its the game that draws the attention to it, in its frequent comments on Bookers attractiveness and the obvious fact Elizabeth is appealing from the way she acts to the way she dresses.
 
R

Red

Member
sersteven said:
Is the complete lack of sexual or romantic tension between Booker and Elizabeth a deliberate hint to their relation? Because obviously Elizabeth is stunning, and is canonically pretty. And Booker is practically sex on legs if you take it from the rest of female columbia (can't recall how many times women made remarks about his looks or flirting with him).

If you put the two together it doesn't make any sense other than the fact they feel a familial connection. I think the breast size change was deliberate in making her seem like a daughter figure as well.

Would've been interesting to see them have some sort of tension, however small, even intellectually. Would have thrown me off the trail for a while longer had they pulled a Luke and Leia on us.

Sure didn't stop me the player from falling in love with her character though.
Click to expand...
Any other game would have pulled the romantic interest. That's standard fare. Creatively bankrupt... It's exactly what you'd expect. Really glad it didn't happen.
 
S

sssstententen

Member
Crunched said:
Any other game would have pulled the romantic interest. That's standard fare. Creatively bankrupt... It's exactly what you'd expect. Really glad it didn't happen.
Click to expand...

Just added an edit to my post before I saw your response. I completely agree. But the game sure does put some effort into making you think about the way the two main characters look aesthetically.
 
TriniTrin

TriniTrin

war of titties grampa
Playing through bioshock one again and I forgot bout the parts that seem like illusions and are like flashbacks. I was thinking. What if those are some sorta tears!!?
 
S

SpacePirate Ridley

Member
SmithnCo said:
From the artbook:

"The artists agonized over every visual detail, striving to make each Vigor bottle something you'd be delighted to have as a real object on your shelf."

I wish. I love the design of the bottles.
Click to expand...

Its the artbook good enough?
I want to buy it becuase I love the art of the game, but I would have to get it from amazon usa to get the best price and Ive been ordering too many books last month from amazon lol
 
DangerStepp

DangerStepp

Member
pixelat3d said:
This is why the priest is blind btw. He would've blown the whole thing.
Click to expand...
Holy shit! I just realized that Comstock used the same priest in Columbia as the one who baptized him.

I knew it was the same priest/character model, just thought the one from memory was constructed from Booker's run-in with him on Columbia.
 
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