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Dark Souls II (PS3/360/PC) - Edge Magazine details (Prepare yourself)
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vikingvessel
Member
Such a fantastic community. So much positivity for the series. The Wikis, OTs here, and in a major way, EpicNameBro, greatly enhanced the experience. We can all look forward to more of the same with a following so deeply rooted in passion, as opposed to hype.
Opus Angelorum
Member
It becoming increasingly obvious that there will be quite a few cross generation titles releasing in 2013/14.
Community Forum
Member
Good. If you want to play the same damn game you've already played, go play Dark Souls.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Shitty parts like the awesomely told backstory and being able to go wherever you want ten minutes into the game?
FairXchange
Member
Starting to get worried. Dark Souls is the highlight of this generation, it would be a disaster if Namco ruins this franchise with too many changes. I think the biggest problem of anything is the removal of Miyazaki, it's literally his vision that brought the game to life. How could removing him produce something positive for the franchise?
When it's ready.
Shitty parts like needing to hit the wiki or forums to make sure you don't fuck up your build, or to understand covenants. There are changes that will make the game better and changes that will make it worse. All current signs point towards the game being better.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Not saying anything about their devving abilities until we see the PC version.
EternalGamer
Banned
Only thing that concerns me is the "enchanced action" line and the dude from action game background. Dark Souls is not an action game. It should not beco e one. The pace of the gameplay is what makes it great.
TimeEffect
Member
More action? I am scared. Hold me GAF.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
So making it impossible to get lost early on and telling the backstory in a straightforward manner are somehow improvements? I'm not saying that the game couldn't use maybe one or two more messages in the tutorial area to clearly explain some mechanics, but nothing in the article suggests that they're going the right direction with this.
Better action. You know, like addressing this stuff:
Making it harder to accidentally wander into the New Londo Ruins or graveyard at the start of the game wouldn't exactly have made Dark Souls worse. And while I love From Software's "show, don't tell" philosophy with regard to story, it could have been made a little easier to tell what was going on.
Can't blame them. The industry has always betrayed its core audience in favor of the casuals whenever they have talked about 'fresh direction' or 'wider audience'. Bethesda, Bioware, Blizzard, etc basically any maker of old school AAA RPG's today except FROM Soft.
I think FROM Software deserves more credibility and trust. Yeah they are changing the directors, but not the devs. And whenever FROM has a made a medieval game, it has always been hardcore and mystic.
We might get more cutscenes, codex pages/book lore scattered around in the world this time that explain the lore more, which might be good or bad given the lore itself, but other than that, this game is looking good.
FROM has never given a chance for their core audience to be disappointed in them, and I don't believe they'll start now. Even with Bamco around them.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
As long as something awesome happens every time I press a button.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Player agency and responsibility is so rare nowadays in games beyond a small budget, some don't know how to react when confronted by it outside of indies. They even forget to mention dropped coop connections, frame rate issues, and a weakened final act narrative in their rush to strike an argument for player enfeeblement in one of those very few decent-budged series that actually do this.
Action is guaranteed, awesome is earned. Seriously, read it again and realize that they're not making Dragon Age II or DmC here.
Did you find it rewarding and interesting to have a stupidly limited palette of messages compared to Demon's Souls, not start with the Orange Sign Soapstone, and not to receive any suggestion about what many of the covenants even did?
Meh, they've always been console developers. They're new to the platform, the fact that they are even here as a result of some petition online is a big deal. They could use some slack if it doesn't turn out like Crysis 3 until they get more experience. I'll be judging them from the console versions.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I'm actually looking forward to it since it could be addressing some of the things I didn't like in the move from Demons -> Dark Souls (not to mention the potential for a proper PC version that doesn't require mods).
Just poking fun at all the negative people here. And I thought I had a tendency to be negative!
So perhaps the PC version might have some extra graphical features? DX11? Watch_Dogs is after all coming out on current gen consoles too. If this slips into 2014 though, I don't know why there can't at least be a next gen version.
I find this to be pretty strange, most people who give up seem to give up instantly. I'd imagine after 30 hours you'd have to be pretty familliar with the game and it's mechanics..
If better action means making non-boss enemies more exciting and complex I'm interested in seeing what they put together.
Improving the covenant and messaging systems from Dark Souls would also be appreciated. The messaging wasn't nearly as interesting or helpful as it was in Demons, and the way they handled covenants made it feel like an afterthought that got rushed in.
The other things either sound fine to me or I don't really have much of an opinion until I see more.
Improving the covenant and messaging systems from Dark Souls would also be appreciated. The messaging wasn't nearly as interesting or helpful as it was in Demons, and the way they handled covenants made it feel like an afterthought that got rushed in.
The other things either sound fine to me or I don't really have much of an opinion until I see more.
Sentenza
Member
Yeah, let's hope for more locked down exclusives, because everyone being able to enjoy the game sucks so much.
What would be the point of it? Dark Souls is supposed to be Demon's Souls 2. They changed the name and some other stuff just because they didn't own the rights for that game.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
I don't think the graveyard thing needed to be addressed at all. I mean, first off, it's an open-world-ish game, so it should be easy for new players to go the wrong way and get slaughtered early on. Although this is a cliche phrase, that really is part of the experience. Anything less would be unnecessary dumbing down. Also, if you talk to the crestfallen warrior, he spells out exactly where to go and what to do, which is pretty generous anyway. It's not like the game didn't give you a huge amount of guidance there.
I disagree on the story. I think that even if you don't go and read item descriptions, the basic plot of the game still makes sense and the game does a good enough job at suggesting what's going on that there's no reason people should be confused by
the ending
It's all well and good that they're addressing Dark Souls' technical issues, but that was to be expected and I don't feel like it's anything to get excited over. I think that things like the games' storytelling style and the way they turn you loose without explicitly railroading you are integral enough to Dark Souls' identity that it's not worth losing them and making the game an inferior product just to gain extra sales.
Because this way we could have both the new and old formula?
As long as it still retains the brooding atmosphere of despair and requires you to pace yourself and learn or get crushed, then I am good. I will not mind if they just add a more coherent story and make some of the underlying mechanics less cryptic.
The Covenant System in Dark Souls was something I really did not give a shit about other than trying to join them all, lol. Further, the world tendency system in Demon's Souls was quite unique and had an interesting way of handling difficulty and giving you access to items, but I never missed it in Dark Souls and was actually relieved that I did not have to worry about it.
In short, I can see why they might want to make the game 'more accessible and easier to understand' as far things like that go. I don't think it would hurt the core experience at all as long as they just trim the fat in these areas, while adding more of a story and retaining the meat of the gameplay. Sounds like it could be an improvement actually.
The Covenant System in Dark Souls was something I really did not give a shit about other than trying to join them all, lol. Further, the world tendency system in Demon's Souls was quite unique and had an interesting way of handling difficulty and giving you access to items, but I never missed it in Dark Souls and was actually relieved that I did not have to worry about it.
In short, I can see why they might want to make the game 'more accessible and easier to understand' as far things like that go. I don't think it would hurt the core experience at all as long as they just trim the fat in these areas, while adding more of a story and retaining the meat of the gameplay. Sounds like it could be an improvement actually.
I'm all for multiplatform releases especially for amazing/must play games like Dark Souls but if a locked down exclusive means a less compromised vision of a man like Miyazaki I'd gladly take this over a dumbed down version that I can play everywhere.
Miyazaki's next game can be a PC, PS4, next Xbox or a Wii U exclusive and I seriously don't give a fuck, I love the man's previous efforts and I'll be where his game will be.
Now about the Edge interview all I have to say is that all these quotes remind me of the BS that Hayashi said about NG3 and that's definitely not a good sign.
Yeah... it's sure sounding like this is going to be a lot more then simply, "Let's teach the newcomers the basics a whole lot better."
I don't mind a more straight forward story or even longer funneling period to make sure players get out on the right path. But I'm almost certain it won't stop there.
I don't mind a more straight forward story or even longer funneling period to make sure players get out on the right path. But I'm almost certain it won't stop there.
I disagree with this point. I feel that any attempt to make it feel more guided would certainly have made it worse. Part of the beauty of the game was how the player is thrown into this world, and you learn very quickly to be careful and consider where you go. It is already impossible as it is to "accidentally" wander into the graveyard or New Londo Ruins. By simply looking at the areas, you gather that something bad might happen if you go there.
In the case of the New Londo Ruins, you would have to be VERY stupid to actually proceed all the way to the point of your demise. I think the game makes it perfectly clear without actually saying anything directly, that the entire area is... a bad place to linger. In the case of the graveyard, even if you do wander there accidentally, there are so many ways to escape from the skeletons and return to the bonfire without fighting. It's not an issue at all. If a player does die there, it's not a harsh penalty either.
Trying to make the experience more simplistic or linear or guided would have absolutely made it a worse game. Would it have made it a more "accessible" game for many mainstream gamers? Sure. But that's hardly a good thing for people who actually appreciate the design that Souls caters to.
I like getting my first firekeeper soul in the New Londo Ruins, yes it would have made it worse for me.
Besides that, every path taken away is a possibility taken away for alternative speedrun routes, and since I get quiet some entertainment value out of watching speedruns, it would make it worse again.
The game tells you where to go, and that those two places are dangerous, so how should they have done it, without sacrificing things which are possible the way the game is now?
H_Prestige
Banned
You do realize they created an entirely new world/lore/characters for Dark Souls, right? Not to mention a pretty obvious shift in aesthetics. It's not Demon's Souls 2. It's a spiritual successor, nothing more. The fact that Dark Souls 2 now exists should make that fact pretty clear.
Given that there is a high probability of DS2 being ruined thanks to Namco and these new directors, I don't see why it's a bad thing to hope for a Sony/Miyazaki collaboration on Demon's Souls 2. At least they wouldn't mess with the man's vision.
GotchaForce
Member
I'd just get wore out and feel I've gotten enough of it. I'd also look at stuff like "world tendency" and other systems and feel like to get the most out of the game I'd have to play it several times and decode a bunch of systems I'm not interested in. If they make a game where I can foresee the end and not having nagging thoughts about cryptic systems in place then good on them.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
That is the inspiration for my point, they addressed two of these, but such actual integral flaws are an afterthought compared with flavors of game design deemed "bad" by one dev daring to do that. That hubris and avarice warping the quality of game design criticism and stunting the variety in the end products is what's far more angering to me than a series potentially not making a quality end product due to no good reasons, and I've seen this faaaaaaaaaaaaar too often this generation than is healthy.
Sentenza
Member
Probably because they wanted to?
Even if that was the reasoning behind it, the rumored King's Field reboot not being a locked down exclusive would make it far more appealing as an option.
Beside, I'm not even against a statement like "I'd want a new game more close to Demon's Souls". It's "I want Demon's Souls 2" which sounds pointless.
Given they don't own the rights for that franchise, why should they go back making an exclusive, exactly?
A game can be unforgiving without completely giving up on teaching the player. I personally don't understand how people missed the correct route at the beginning of the game, but an automatically triggered bit of dialog from the Crestfallen Warrior telling you that going to the graveyard will only get you killed and that the Bell of Awakening is beyond the waterway and staircase wouldn't have been "dumbing down," just a friendly nudge.
Demon's Souls had a more straightforward plot ("Destroy the archdemons and help the Maiden in Black put the Old One back to sleep to save Boletaria from the fog.") and more traditional storytelling in the form of allied characters whose arcs that ran through each world and were generally pretty hard to miss. Dark Souls making the main story more vague and scattering those characters into random nooks and crannies certainly made things less straightforward, but I wouldn't say they were improvements.
I ignored all those systems (world tendency, covenants etc) as they didn't matter to me, still loved the games from start to finish.
you people are overreacting, accessibility doesn't equal shit.
seriously how many of you actually discovered the covenants and all their intricacies by yourself? I wouldn't mind stuff like that being more accessible to the player.
I'm sure the game will still offer the same brutal challange, dark fantasy setting as the others.
this game is going to be grossly incandescent I'm hyped for it.
seriously how many of you actually discovered the covenants and all their intricacies by yourself? I wouldn't mind stuff like that being more accessible to the player.
I'm sure the game will still offer the same brutal challange, dark fantasy setting as the others.
this game is going to be grossly incandescent I'm hyped for it.
I can't believe I actually have to reply to something like this seriously, but I guess here we are. Yes, what you described would absolutely be "dumbing down". There is no other way to interpret it. You already admit that you personally don't understand how people can miss the correct route. Then you suggest that the developer should make it even MORE obvious what the player should be doing. That's dumbing down. That's the game treating the player like someone dumber than it does now. That's dumbing it down. It means the game now has less respect for the gamer. No thanks.
CountAntonius
Member
Damnit Namco if you fuck this up...
Some of these things are really worrying.
Some of these things are really worrying.
I suggest people read through the EDGE magazine piece on this. Specially their interview with the director. Doesn't look like he's set out to butcher the series, really if you just read the comments in between.
Also some good news is that Miyazaki is working on directing a new game (which we don't know if its connected to Dark's universe or not) which he said will NOT be casual (yay?!) but it will be a lot 'warmer' than Dark Souls. This is for next-gen consoles I guess, and will basically a more happier RPG. Also, it really was Namco who came up with the decision to change directors, and Miyakaki isn't too happy about it, but he says he can't hold on to the series forever.
Also some good news is that Miyazaki is working on directing a new game (which we don't know if its connected to Dark's universe or not) which he said will NOT be casual (yay?!) but it will be a lot 'warmer' than Dark Souls. This is for next-gen consoles I guess, and will basically a more happier RPG. Also, it really was Namco who came up with the decision to change directors, and Miyakaki isn't too happy about it, but he says he can't hold on to the series forever.
Freakinchair
Member
Yeah - It looks like they're changing what makes the Souls games good. I'll reserve my judgement for when actual game footage comes out but fuck them if they ruin this series.