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LifEndz · Oct 16, 2017

I dont want to accuse Ballard of lying, but I have my doubts about the veracity of his accusation. If any good comes of this, its that ND probably reviewed its internal policies for prevention of this behavior at work. More companies should in light of how widespread this type of abuse is in the workplace.

Sjefen · Oct 16, 2017

I am glad more info is coming out, many was quick to judge after some tweets from Ballard. I am sure more will be revealed as time passes.

Marcel · Oct 16, 2017

jellies_two said:
Maybe I am wrong but I feel this whole thing is getting turbo charged by the incorrect hope/idea that sexual harassment is a "both sides" issue, and therefore not usable in the culture/sex counter-war that seems to be raging under trump.

If a group hates "SJWs" and "political correctness" and "affirmative action" then nothing could be better than a female, or gay, Weinstein right about now. And then of course platform wars play into it as well.

Can't people let this play out to a stop before live blogging early conclusions, and demands?

Am I reading you correctly when you imply that men can't be sexually harassed?

MisterR · Oct 16, 2017

orochi91 said:
This almost seems like a hit-piece against Ballard.

What's the point of including this in the article?

Hes made serious allegations. I think his state of mind is relevant.

Jaguar Victory · Oct 16, 2017

I hope they work it out. Should be handled privately.

Inuhanyou · Oct 16, 2017

it would be a lot easier if he said who did it and when...i would not be surprised at all if it was a cover up by Sony to stop bad press from leaking. But his story can't be verified appropriately unless he comes forward with the full account of the whens, whys and under what exact reasoning Sony gave for his ejection.

Maybe legal action can be taken in that case

jellies_two · Oct 16, 2017

Marcel said:
Am I reading you correctly when you imply that men can't be sexually harassed?

They can of course.
However consulting my magical statistics book of harassment shows that since men are primarily in all the positions where they can harass safely, it is disproportinatly aimed at women. Can't give you a ratio. Might vary from country to country. My guess is
90:10 though.

timberger · Oct 16, 2017

Inuhanyou said:
it would be a lot easier if he said who did it and when...i would not be surprised at all if it was a cover up by Sony to stop bad press from leaking. But his story can't be verified appropriately unless he comes forward with the full account

Naming names would only land him in legal trouble.

Pastry · Oct 16, 2017

Jaguar Victory said:
I hope they work it out. Should be handled privately.

Correct, I am conflicted on how the situation is playing out. I hope at this point he has lawyers as I doubt he did when he wrote the initial tweets. If he does have lawyers now then they have probably told him that he should no longer speak about this publically.

Marcel · Oct 16, 2017

Inuhanyou said:
it would be a lot easier if he said who did it and when...i would not be surprised at all if it was a cover up by Sony to stop bad press from leaking. But his story can't be verified appropriately unless he comes forward with the full account

Maybe legal action can be taken in that case

If Ballard names names he is opening himself up to a defamation lawsuit. As someone else has said in the thread, it's possible he has sought legal council and was advised not to speak to the press or social media.

Fisty · Oct 16, 2017

I will hold out hope that Naughty Dog isnt the bad guy until all the facts roll in. I love their games and really respect the artists, but these allegations are very troubling if they do end up true.

Kyoufu · Oct 16, 2017

Deku Tree said:
Are they suggesting the other tech artist is the harraser?

I'm not sure how you're arriving at that conclusion...

Jonneh3003 · Oct 16, 2017

jellies_two said:
They can of course.
However consulting my magical statistics book of harassment shows that since men are primarily in all the positions where they can harass safely, it is disproportinatly aimed at women. Can't give you a ratio. Might vary from country to country. My guess is
90:10 though.

Maybe fewer men come forward because it's less commonly spoken about and therefore more humiliating?

Servbot24 · Oct 16, 2017

I don't personally have reason to believe one way or the other. However I'm not sure why random employees would have any knowledge about the situation.

JP · Oct 16, 2017

I've avoided commenting on these threads so far and I'm really not sure if it's even a good idea to get involved now.

I assume that none on here were present when the alleged incident or incidents took place so I've at times had issues with some people apportioning blame without really knowing anything about what happened. It's an incredibly dangerous thing to do with any sorts of allegation but perhaps more so with this type of thing in particular.

Sexual harassment of any kind is unforgivable and I would hope that it would always be dealt with appropriately. I'm in no way suggesting that it did happen or even that it didn't happen because I obviously have no idea at all and that's why I've not been willing to chastise any of the involved parties.

I think that it's such a shame that this was dealt with publicly because I feel that it's been really counter productive and I'm sure that Mr Ballard is feeling that right now as things seem to be falling apart. Again, I'm not doubting either side, I'm in no position to say what has or hasn't happened.

This is almost separate to this whole thing in many ways but I can't imagine that any of us here doubt the pain that he is in at the moment, irrelevant of the cause of that pain and I really do hope that he manages to find some peace in whatever it is that has made him as ill as he appears to be to people who really don't know him.

I really hope that this is resolved quickly and privately for everybody involved in it.

potatohead · Oct 16, 2017

As a note to all this new information does not confirm or deny anything nor does it means we stop addressing allegations of abuse of all kinds in the workplace nor does it means we burn the accused at the torch immediately.

It's nice to hear more from the studio personnel but again no quick judgements should be he made.

And yes regardless of what happened this person appears to be in significant distress and that is at least deserving of sympathy.

Boke1879 · Oct 16, 2017

Inuhanyou said:
it would be a lot easier if he said who did it and when...i would not be surprised at all if it was a cover up by Sony to stop bad press from leaking. But his story can't be verified appropriately unless he comes forward with the full account

Maybe legal action can be taken in that case

He doesn't have to though. He's done more than he needed to.

Even though it's the logical conclusion. He may not have expected this to "blow up" like this and be contacted like this. It's still probably hard for him to talk about.

Inuhanyou · Oct 16, 2017

timberger said:
Naming names would only land him in legal trouble.

If he didnt do anything wrong and it was clear the person he is attacking is in the wrong, he should take him to court.

I think its wrong if the guy just is allowed to continue on, normalizing this kind of behavior at ND

zsynqx · Oct 16, 2017

Servbot24 said:
I don't personally have reason to believe one way or the other. However I'm not sure why random employees would have any knowledge about the situation.

I guess the point here is that it wasn't some big open secret throughout the company.

But yeah, doesn't disprove Ballard's claims.

Sho_Nuff82 · Oct 16, 2017

formasymphonic said:
I dont know why people ITT are surprised that he didnt say anything to his colleagues.

Hasnt anyone learnt anything from all the stories people have finally been able to get off their chests in t e last few weeks?

Its hard enough for a lot of victims to be able to speak up about these things in private as it is. Would any of you readily be able to vocalise that you were victimised? On top of that, we all know there are additional stigmas that male sexual abuse victims have to overcome.

I dont think we should be writing off his claims just yet.

This is all very true, but Allards accusations include the claim that Sony/ND deliberately fostered this kind of behavior by covering it up. People like Weinstein were an open secret because his behavior was so widespread and shameless. These employees are saying they werent aware of anything of the sort.

Its within the realm of possibility that he wasnt as forthcoming to HR about what was bothering him as he now claims. Being a male victim actually makes that more believable.

Quasar said:
See that makes it seem worse to me. They should have been looking after the guy, having him on sick leave or whatever not kicking him to the curb.

If you bully a coworker in front of everyone and put it in writing, youre toast.

timberger · Oct 16, 2017

Servbot24 said:
I don't personally have reason to believe one way or the other. However I'm not sure why random employees would have any knowledge about the situation.

Who else can you really ask besides Ballard himself other than people who worked with him at the time though?

Stormblessed · Oct 16, 2017

Servbot24 said:
I don't personally have reason to believe one way or the other. However I'm not sure why random employees would have any knowledge about the situation.

There was a chance that, in approaching these employees, they might feel emboldened enough to share their own accounts or to talk about an underlying corporate culture that either encouraged or ignored the problem. I don't think it was valueless, although I doubt many would seriously share this kind of story with Kotaku.

Inuhanyou · Oct 16, 2017

Boke1879 said:
He doesn't have to though. He's done more than he needed to.

Even though it's the logical conclusion. He may not have expected this to "blow up" like this and be contacted like this. It's still probably hard for him to talk about.

unless authorities know the accused in question, he's off the hook, and i dont see how that is good for anyone in the situation

Dmax3901 · Oct 16, 2017

”There definitely is not a culture of covering up bad behavior," that person said. ”I and quite a lot of other people wouldn't be here if there was."

Couldn't this just be because the cover up was... well... covered up? The whole point of cover ups is that no-one knows about them lol.

whatsinaname · Oct 16, 2017

Servbot24 said:
I don't personally have reason to believe one way or the other. However I'm not sure why random employees would have any knowledge about the situation.

I agree here. However the whole thing plays out, something like this without either party involved reads more like a Daily Mail type of "of interest to public" gossip piece.

Especially considering they wouldn't even name themselves.

all speaking under condition of anonymity so as not to jeopardize their careers

jellies_two · Oct 16, 2017

Jonneh3003 said:
Maybe fewer men come forward because it's less commonly spoken about and therefore more humiliating?

My guess at 90:10 is not reported cases but actual events, reported or not. I have worked in enough offices and talked to enough people over decades to be comfortable with that guess, but it's just a guess, and I also worked in Japan where I reckon sexual harassment of females vs males was more like 99 to 1.

Sho_Nuff82 · Oct 16, 2017

jellies_two said:
They can of course.
However consulting my magical statistics book of harassment shows that since men are primarily in all the positions where they can harass safely, it is disproportinatly aimed at women. Can't give you a ratio. Might vary from country to country. My guess is
90:10 though.

Men can be harassed by women and men.

DR2K · Oct 16, 2017

I didnt know anything about sexual harassment happening in my office of 10 employees. It wasnt until HR started interviewing employees and asking us questions that we realized what was going on.

Primethius · Oct 16, 2017

Inuhanyou said:
If he didnt do anything wrong and it was clear the person he is attacking is in the wrong, he should take him to court.

I think its wrong if the guy just is allowed to continue on, normalizing this kind of behavior at ND

How's he gonna win in court without proof?

gundamkyoukai · Oct 16, 2017

Quasar said:
See that makes it seem worse to me. They should have been looking after the guy, having him on sick leave or whatever not kicking him to the curb.

I don't know where you work or have worked before but you really think most companies would do that ?
I am not talking about the gaming industry but any .

Marcel · Oct 16, 2017

jellies_two said:
They can of course.
However consulting my magical statistics book of harassment shows that since men are primarily in all the positions where they can harass safely, it is disproportinatly aimed at women. Can't give you a ratio. Might vary from country to country. My guess is
90:10 though.

It seems like you're more worried about the optics of a "gay or female Weinstein" as you say than you are about a potential victim of sexual assault, which is pretty scummy way to feel if you ask me. This isn't some baton in a culture relay race against good and bad actors. This is about a person.

RRockman · Oct 16, 2017

This isnt good at all. The email could have been reported. Is it possible Sony didn't believe him cause he had a "record" and they let him go? I really hope Ballard can present something so it doesnt look like he was having a tantrum, this could be the end of his career.

Principate · Oct 16, 2017

Inuhanyou said:
If he didnt do anything wrong and it was clear the person he is attacking is in the wrong, he should take him to court.

I think its wrong if the guy just is allowed to continue on, normalizing this kind of behavior at ND

That's not how this works. There's a reasons why these sorts of cases are notorious as it comes down to your word against theirs. If there's not enough evidence or he can't afford a good lawyer he could very very easily lose regardless of the accuracy of his claims.

It would be very unwise to do so, very unwise.

They could then countersuit for libel after winning the case and you betcha does that happen often.

Yjynx · Oct 16, 2017

Quasar said:
See that makes it seem worse to me. They should have been looking after the guy, having him on sick leave or whatever not kicking him to the curb.

I've seen HR involved and get someone fired for just something less. Toxic environment is a BIG NO NO in some company. Seriously guys this isn't some American Drama film....

So was that second claim by alleged ND employee unverified?

jellies_two · Oct 16, 2017

Marcel said:
It seems like you're more worried about the optics of a "gay or female Weinstein" as you say than you are about a potential victim of sexual assault, which is pretty scummy way to feel if you ask me. This isn't some baton in a culture relay race against good and bad guys. This is about a person.

Not worried about "optics".
Just observing this particular issue is clearly turbo charged by a culture war.

Justified · Oct 16, 2017

Inuhanyou said:
If he didnt do anything wrong and it was clear the person he is attacking is in the wrong, he should take him to court.

I think its wrong if the guy just is allowed to continue on, normalizing this kind of behavior at ND

Under California State law You only have 1 Year to sue for Sexual Harassment after the last incident, 180 days if you want to fill an EEOC ( Wrongful Termination, which would fall under be fired in a hostile work environment) 300 days is you want to take it to the Federal level

legend166 · Oct 16, 2017

"We didn't know he was sexually harassed, we just thought it was due to the horrific work conditions! We swear!"

That made me laugh. What a joke this industry is.

Marcel · Oct 16, 2017

jellies_two said:
Not worried about "optics".
Just observing this particular issue is clearly turbo charged by a culture war.

How about you just be concerned for a person's well being instead of worrying about how this looks in your "culture war"? Jesus christ. Have some compassion you nut.

Boke1879 · Oct 16, 2017

Dmax3901 said:
Couldn't this just be because the cover up was... well... covered up?

I mean maybe, but with all the information we have no one knew of Ballards claim either.

Inuhanyou · Oct 16, 2017

Primethius said:
How's he gonna win in court without proof?

....i see your point.

But...can't he atleast sue sony? I mean he said they responded unethically to his claims. If he has a copy of those documents, sure he could use that against them at the very least

Principate said:
That's not how this works. There's a reasons why these sorts of cases are notorious as it comes down to your word against theirs. If there's not enough evidence or he can't afford a good lawyer he could very very easily lose regardless of the accuracy of his claims.

It would be very unwise to do so, very unwise.

They could then countersuit for libel after winning the case and you betcha does that happen often.

Justified said:
Under California State law You only have 1 Year to sue for Sexual Harassment after the last incident, 180 days if you want to fill an EEOC ( Wrongful Termination, which would fall under be fired in a hostile work environment) 300 days is you wan to take it to the Federal level

Damn. i didn't even know there was a time limit for how long you could sue for sexual harassment, why is that even a thing

jxN3 · Oct 16, 2017

Writing a hostile email and it being CC'd to the entire company -- depending on what was said, could absolutely be enough to be terminated.

He had his mental breakdown in Feb, the same month the email was sent. It's not that hard to imagine that the email was his "mental breakdown" and it being CC'd through the entire company is why Sony HR became involved.

Sony HR calls to get some information, and that's when he explains the situation, and more importantly; the sexual assault. The next day he was fired for the email, and was offered a $20,000 severance as long as he keeps the information of his termination private.

I'm not sure how HR works, but if they already have the go-head from Naughty Dog to let him go, whatever David tells them wouldn't stop them from firing him, right?

He absolutely could have been sexually assaulted, but the article now gives a new possible reason for his termination. Thus the "doesn't look good for David" comments.

mrk8885 · Oct 16, 2017

Quasar said:
See that makes it seem worse to me. They should have been looking after the guy, having him on sick leave or whatever not kicking him to the curb.

Woah woah woah. Wait a minute.

So let me get this straight. For a couple days, weve had many threads and posters claiming a follow up and conspiracy and concern that ND inadequately responded to a harassment concern. Pitchforks ready. Burn it down.

Now details come out that Ballard actually sent a hostile email to a coworker that got sent to the whole company....and now youre claiming the company acted TOO boldly terminating him for that?

Make up your mind people.

ScientificPizza · Oct 16, 2017

Inuhanyou said:
If he didnt do anything wrong and it was clear the person he is attacking is in the wrong, he should take him to court.

I think its wrong if the guy just is allowed to continue on, normalizing this kind of behavior at ND

If he cannot unequivocally prove it happened (which without witnesses or recorded proof is difficult to do) then he opens himself up to a libel suit from his harasser

People saying that he should just name names really dont understand the complexity of these kinds of situations. Too much (in a lot of cases all) of the power resides with the abuser. Unless the victim was savvy enough *in the moment* to record something its always going to be their word against yours. And thats a lot to ask of someone who is in the middle of being abused

Principate · Oct 16, 2017

Inuhanyou said:
....i see your point.

But...can't he atleast sue sony? I mean he said they responded unethically to his claims. If he has a copy of those documents, sure he could use that against them at the very least

Do you think they worded his severance in such a way that'd leave them liable? Unless they were incredibly incompetant tbat thing should be extremely tight legally.

ElephantShell · Oct 17, 2017

legend166 said:
"We didn't know he was sexually harassed, we just thought it was due to the horrific work conditions! We swear!"

That made me laugh. What a joke this industry is.

Yeah both these things shouldn't be in the workplace but one is acceptable because "passion" or some shit. I don't know how game devs survive I really don't.

rpmurphy · Oct 17, 2017

Sony said:
We value every single person who works at Naughty Dog and Sony Interactive Entertainment. It is of utmost importance to us that we maintain a safe, productive workplace environment that allows us all to channel our shared passion for making games.

Except, you know, the awful crunch culture that helped drive Ballard to a mental breakdown that your other developers also attest to. Even if the case is that he wasn't assaulted. Yuh huh.

Inuhanyou · Oct 17, 2017

ScientificPizza said:
If he cannot unequivocally prove it happened (which without witnesses or recorded proof is difficult to do) then he opens himself up to a libel suit from his harasser

People saying that he should just name names really dont understand the complexity of these kinds of situations. Too much (in a lot of cases all) of the power resides with the abuser. Unless the victim was savvy enough *in the moment* to record something its always going to be their word against yours. And thats a lot to ask of someone who is in the middle of being abused

That's a good point, yeah.

Yjynx · Oct 17, 2017

whatsinaname said:
I agree here. However the whole thing plays out, something like this without either party involved reads more like a Daily Mail type of "of interest to public" gossip piece.

Especially considering they wouldn't even name themselves.

Are you fo real?

And by being in cover of anonymity they should be even more truthful without worrying about any persecution. This isn't Hollywood celebrity with their own army of lawyers. Gaffer can be.... Sometimes...

RRockman · Oct 17, 2017

legend166 said:
"We didn't know he was sexually harassed, we just thought it was due to the horrific work conditions! We swear!"

That made me laugh. What a joke this industry is.

Indeed, the fact that this is phrase exists is simply terrible.

Inuhanyou · Oct 17, 2017

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