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Gestault · Jul 21, 2017

Derpot said:
Yup yup. She doesn't even have tights, dammit lol.

It reminds me of Dawn's design in Pokémon Platinum:

Like, wtf, I have never (or rarely??) seen in my life a woman dressing like that in winter lol.
And of course, people will use the excuse "but it's a video game, not reality", but come on. That doesn't work when male characters have normal, coherent clothes in comparison (Guile vs Cammy who are both militaries for example).

If it weren't for the the length of the jacket, Dawn's outfit would be totally realistic. Like, surprisingly close to some full outfits I see in my circles. Skirt plus navy-style jacket in shin-high boots would be great. Tights would be ideal to cut the wind, but the jacket barely dropping past the her nethers just feels silly for what's otherwise a cool outfit.

ec0ec0 · Jul 21, 2017

Sn4ke_911 said:
it's time to grow up, america

and turn your eyes towards violence and guns while you're at it (both in videogames and real life).

sixteen-bit · Jul 21, 2017

How did they handle the Kazunoko match on the Disney XD rebroadcast?

Ferr986 · Jul 21, 2017

Derpot said:
Yup yup. She doesn't even have tights, dammit lol.

It reminds me of Dawn's design in Pokémon Platinum:

Like, wtf, I have never (or rarely??) seen in my life a woman dressing like that in winter lol.
And of course, people will use the excuse "but it's a video game, not reality", but come on. That doesn't work when male characters have normal, coherent clothes in comparison (Guile vs Cammy who are both militaries for example).

Totally agree. There is some progress in female representation, but there are still some issues here and there. "Fanservice" can keep existing, there is a market for it, alright. But more and better representations that don't exist to titillate are needed too.

God saves me to protect shit like this but this reminds me, when I was in Japan, I saw a girl like this while fucking snowing during winter. Her legs were about to turn friggin blue because it was freezing cold lol

I do agree with you though.

NahaNago · Jul 21, 2017

BudokaiMR2 said:
You'd be surprised actually. It's fairly common to see that during winter in Japan, which isn't mild at all.

I have no idea why they do, but it really is fairly common.

I've seen women wear similar outfits in the states during winter. I always find it shocking since i tend to wear several layers of pants and shirts during the winter but i guess they really want to show off them legs.

Mufausa The 3rd · Jul 21, 2017

Some of you have probably never seen competitive DOA5 (Dead or Alive 5). The amount banned costumes that game has is ridiculous lol.

Korigama · Jul 21, 2017

Busaiku said:
Nope.
Initially it was just King, then Yuri and King, then most of the cast, including the males.
But then it got worse with The King of Fighters XIII.

Ah, so it was AoF3 where the men started to be accounted for then (never paid that one much attention, admittedly). I had only taken King in AoF1, then both her and Yuri in AoF2 into account. Very well, I stand corrected.

Mufausa The 3rd said:
Some of you have probably never seen competitive DOA5 (Dead or Alive 5). The amount banned costumes that game has is ridiculous lol.

Last recent example of competitive DoA5 I've seen was at Final Round earlier this year, but none of the costumes were banned there (not that they had any of the DLC ones available to exclude beyond ones in the base game). That said, I have heard of outfit bans in tournament play for it, but have also seen criticisms of inconsistency about what is and isn't approved. According to the summary on the matter here, this is considered okay with those specific organizers, but this isn't.

Derpot · Jul 21, 2017

BudokaiMR2 said:
You'd be surprised actually. It's fairly common to see that during winter in Japan, which isn't mild at all.

I have no idea why they do, but it really is fairly common.

Ferr986 said:
God saves me to protect shit like this but this reminds me, when I was in Japan, I saw a girl like this while fucking snowing during winter. Her legs were about to turn friggin blue because it was freezing cold lol

I do agree with you though.

Alright lol, fair enough, I've never been in Japan, and I'm not an expert in Japanese winter fashion, so what do I know. I think Sinnoh is based on Japan too, so that would make sense. As Gestault said, her jacket is quite short, it looks like she doesn't have anything under it.
But anyway, I don't think Dawn was designed to be sexualized, she's a character in a family-friendly series. It's just that her design kinda "shocked" me at the time, because I thought it was stupid to wear that in the cold. Kolin from SF on the other hand, I think the intention is clear, she was designed to be sexually appealing (even her victory pose).

SixMachine · Jul 21, 2017

Mufausa The 3rd said:
Some of you have probably never seen competitive DOA5 (Dead or Alive 5). The amount banned costumes that game has is ridiculous lol.

Wasn't that only for some select ones because of some TO trying tp be more esports? After that blew up I remember seeing costumes like the Nights of Azure one where Kasumi (or Phase 4, couldn't tell) turn into the demon form of the heroine in that game and stuff like Senran Kagura costumes. These were in like Top 8 too.

Amneisac · Jul 21, 2017

ec0ec0 said:
and turn your eyes towards violence and guns while you're at it (both in videogames and real life).

This idea that prudish Americans are just too backwards to accept the artistic beauty of the female form is ridiculous. It's about context and representation. A real flesh and blood woman makes a decision about how she represents herself. A game designer makes that decision for the female characters in a game. If that vision (in the singular sense) is sexualized, okay. But when that is the overwhelmingly most common way that women are portrayed in games, and it's egregious, it becomes a problem.

Korigama · Jul 21, 2017

SixMachine said:
Wasn't that only for some select ones because of some TO trying tp be more esports? After that blew up I remember seeing costumes like the Nights of Azure one where Kasumi (or Phase 4, couldn't tell) turn into the demon form of the heroine in that game and stuff like Senran Kagura costumes. These were in like Top 8 too.

It was Phase 4 who got the Arnice one from Nights of Azure.

Skronk · Jul 21, 2017

Game designers should probably just have female members of staff (if they have any) design the female characters and men design the men characters.

We'll all be a lot happier and deviant art still exists for the thirsty goobers out there.

Pompadour · Jul 21, 2017

Skronk said:
Game designers should probably just have female members of staff (if they have any) design the female characters and men design the men characters.

We'll all be a lot happier and deviant art still exists for the thirsty goobers out there.

I don't know if that would do anything. Bayonetta was designed by a woman and that character got a lot of flack.

Puruzi · Jul 21, 2017

Skronk said:
Game designers should probably just have female members of staff (if they have any) design the female characters and men design the men characters.

We'll all be a lot happier and deviant art still exists for the thirsty goobers out there.

women do perverted female designs too

DrArchon · Jul 21, 2017

Pompadour said:
I don't know if that would do anything. Bayonetta was designed by a woman and that character got a lot of flack.

Did a woman decide on the camera work and the shots in Bayonetta? Because Bayonetta's actually design isn't that bad, it's the camera zooming up her crotch that gets most people.

LordGorchnik · Jul 21, 2017

Puruzi said:
women do perverted female designs too

In fact, in Japan I know more women designers who make sexy/perverted/ecchi designs than some male designers.

Male or female designer they know who they are trying to target.

Theonik · Jul 21, 2017

Puruzi said:
women do perverted female designs too

Women do the best perverted female designs in fact.

LordGorchnik said:
Male or female designer they know who they are trying to target.

Or you know, maybe they like it.

Forward · Jul 21, 2017

Derpot said:
It reminds me of Dawn's design in Pokémon Platinum:

Like, wtf, I have never (or rarely??) seen in my life a woman dressing like that in winter lol.

Chi Burbs.

.

T.O.P · Jul 21, 2017

Village said:
One of my favorites

Oh hey its laura's battle outfit, but good

Christ that's ugly af

BudokaiMR2 · Jul 21, 2017

Yeah, I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread (or maybe another one?) but the idea that all of these lewd designs are the result of male designers is definitely off base.

I'm sure its still heavily weighted that way, but I have known plenty of female designers who live for that kind of stuff.

dawgparty · Jul 21, 2017

Village said:
Oh hey its laura's battle outfit, but good

PFFFFFT. Wow, Laura went to Target! Slay.

Forward · Jul 21, 2017

T.O.P said:
Christ that's ugly af

I'd never seen that before. I want to un-see it. It's like it was designed specifically to serve as a pseudo-intellectual counter-point to the topic at hand.

Steve Youngblood · Jul 21, 2017

ec0ec0 said:
and turn your eyes towards violence and guns while you're at it (both in videogames and real life).

This is honestly a "why not both?" suggestion to me. Like if Mortal Kombat was more well received as a competitive game vying for esports attention I would absolutely agree that the violence should be toned down.

zoukka · Jul 21, 2017

Amneisac said:
But when that stylization allows for a large variation in the appearance of men, but all women are styled to be sexually appealing we have an obvious target for criticism.

What are the completely new characters in the game, Kolin and Karin? Both are way less exploitative designs than the old classics like Cammy imo.

Korigama · Jul 21, 2017

zoukka said:
What are the completely new characters in the game, Kolin and Karin? Both are way less exploitative designs than the old classics like Cammy imo.

Neither Kolin nor Karin are completely new (Kolin counts a bit more since she was never playable before in spite of showing up back in SFIII, and Karin's been around since SFA3). Of the current roster, Laura's the only completely new female character so far.

Gestault · Jul 21, 2017

T.O.P said:
Christ that's ugly af

dawgparty said:
PFFFFFT. Wow, Laura went to Target! Slay.

Laura looks like a human wearing human clothes.

sibarraz · Jul 21, 2017

Gestault said:
Laura looks like a human wearing human clothes.

Human wearing human clothes doesn't exclude having terrible fashion sense

dawgparty · Jul 21, 2017

Gestault said:
Laura looks like a human wearing human clothes.

Oh geez. Get over yourself. The problem with this isn't that she's wearing less revealing clothes.

Mister Wilhelm · Jul 21, 2017

No, America needs to not be fucking hypocrites about broadcasting rules.

I guarantee you they would have had zero problem broadcasting girls sprinting in the Olympics where they barely wear anything at all but put a woman in a leather wrestling outfit with a little bit of booty and they lose their damn minds.

Fan service is not the issue here.

T.O.P · Jul 21, 2017

Gestault said:
Laura looks like a human wearing human clothes.

Kysen · Jul 21, 2017

TV is a dying medium, fuck em. Devs should do whatever they want.

RM8 · Jul 21, 2017

sibarraz said:
Human wearing human clothes doesn't exclude having terrible fashion sense

In what context are you "better" dressed wearing one of Laura's default costumes instead of that mod? Lol, I guess the Bonita costume is super fashionable.

Puruzi · Jul 21, 2017

Gestault said:
Laura looks like a human wearing human clothes.

right, because Laura somehow doesn't look like a human with clothes on that show skin

wait

Steve Youngblood · Jul 21, 2017

Kysen said:
TV is a dying medium, fuck em. Devs should do whatever they want.

I think TV's decline sort of ignores the broader premise here. Sure, maybe ESPN2 and Disney XD aren't the perfect vehicles for getting esports to the next level. But even if you stick with streaming, when you start talking about increased viewership, you're probably also looking at more sponsorship and sponsorship concerns. Some of these sponsors might be the same ones that you'd be worried about offending on ESPN2 and Disney XD.

Now maybe you say "fuck that!" and conclude that esports is doing just fine forging its own path into the mainstream. Very well then.

I'll stick to my guns though and continue to argue that I think there's an easily workable compromise solution that can be employed. I don't really think you immediately have to jump to either one or the other position wherein we must pick sides. It doesn't have to be the extremes of "fuck prudes and fuck change! I don't want soccer moms telling me sexy video game girls are bad!" vs. "now that we have a chance at going mainstream it's time to completely sell out our past. Sorry Cammy outfit that's been around for almost 25 year, but you're now banned. And for those of you that don't care about esports or ESPN, too bad. You're coming along for the ride."

thumb · Jul 21, 2017

Pompadour said:
I don't know if that would do anything. Bayonetta was designed by a woman and that character got a lot of flack.

This really needs more context. Bayonetta had many possible designs that were crafted under Kamiya's direction. He made the call on what she should look like, not the artist.

unknownhero · Jul 21, 2017

no, it sounds like espn needs to stop being such cowards about it. fan service is fine as long as it doesn't overshadow the important things like gameplay and the like. Let the devs do as they please and let players choose the costumes they want.

LotusHD · Jul 21, 2017

Amneisac said:
What always amazes me in these threads is how people line up to defend "their" game's hypersexualization of women and fail to recognize that this is an industry wide problem.

You go into a Vanillaware thread, or a SF5 thread, or a Fire Emblem thread, etc. and there are people trying to defend the "art" or "creator's vision", or whatever else and fail to recognize that this exact same topic is surfacing in almost every game that has female characters.

Folks, there is a pervasive problem with how video game designers portray women. Ok, men buy a lot of video games and men like looking at attractive women, that's fine, but men are also capable of consuming media without having to be sexually attracted to every female character.

No one cares if you want to have your DoA spinoffs, or your waifu games or whatever else, but admit what it is: titilation. You aren't admiring art or having some academic appreciation for the female form, it's sexual. Ok, that's fine! But if a game aspires to have an audience beyond that niche it needs to step out from these tired sexualized tropes at least a little bit. Otherwise you can't expect the world at large, and that's not just ESPN or corporate sponsors, that's also people who appreciate a woman who can dress "like a man" in a fighting sport and not traipse around in her underwear, to take your game seriously.

Well said.

Gestault · Jul 21, 2017

sibarraz said:
Human wearing human clothes doesn't exclude having terrible fashion sense

dawgparty said:
Oh geez. Get over yourself. The problem with this isn't that she's wearing less revealing clothes.

T.O.P said:
[Lazy, overused gif]

Puruzi said:
right, because Laura somehow doesn't look like a human with clothes on that show skin

wait

I'm sorry casual workout clothes disgust you. It's a topic about options for more mainstream-friendly getups for characters, and that's a look that fits the bill with Laura. The fact that apparently her d-tier detault costume is prefereable may say more about your taste than mine.

Sami+ · Jul 21, 2017

Mister Wilhelm said:
No, America needs to not be fucking hypocrites about broadcasting rules.

I guarantee you they would have had zero problem broadcasting girls sprinting in the Olympics where they barely wear anything at all but put a woman in a leather wrestling outfit with a little bit of booty and they lose their damn minds.

Fan service is not the issue here.

Call me when Olympic sprinters have ass and titty holes cut into their outfits

Hehe a lil something for the boys am I right

Lyte Edge · Jul 21, 2017

Pompadour said:
I don't know if that would do anything. Bayonetta was designed by a woman and that character got a lot of flack.

IIRC, a number of the costumes in Dead Or Alive are also designed by women.

dawgparty · Jul 21, 2017

Gestault said:
I'm sorry casual workout clothes disgust you. It's a topic about options for more mainstream-friendly getups for characters, and that's a look that fits the bill with Laura. The fact that apparently her d-tier detault costume is prefereable may say more about your taste than mine.

Theonik · Jul 21, 2017

Gestault said:
I'm sorry casual workout clothes disgust you. It's a topic about options for more mainstream-friendly getups for characters, and that's a look that fits the bill with Laura. The fact that apparently her d-tier detault costume is prefereable may say more about your taste than mine.

It says a lot about both of your tastes. I am judging you. Silently.

thumb · Jul 21, 2017

Lyte Edge said:
IIRC, a number of the costumes in Dead Or Alive are also designed by women.

Which means nothing if the women are artists who are beholden to the creative director's vision. And it's not as though every woman cares about these issues automatically.

Puruzi · Jul 21, 2017

Gestault said:
I'm sorry casual workout clothes disgust you. It's a topic about options for more mainstream-friendly getups for characters, and that's a look that fits the bill with Laura. The fact that apparently her d-tier detault costume is prefereable may say more about your taste than mine.

Stallion Dan · Jul 21, 2017

Amneisac said:
This idea that prudish Americans are just too backwards to accept the artistic beauty of the female form is ridiculous. It's about context and representation. A real flesh and blood woman makes a decision about how she represents herself. A game designer makes that decision for the female characters in a game. If that vision (in the singular sense) is sexualized, okay. But when that is the overwhelmingly most common way that women are portrayed in games, and it's egregious, it becomes a problem.

The context is it is a video game so they think it is for kids, they've not realised that stopped being a thing decades ago.

They show more revealing real women on ESPN so it isn't a skin issue.

Devs shouldn't change shit.

DrArchon · Jul 21, 2017

Kysen said:
TV is a dying medium, fuck em. Devs should do whatever they want.

Whether or not TV's dying is irrelevant. Capcom clearly thinks it isn't, otherwise they wouldn't keep looking towards ESPN and now Disney XD to show SFV on their channels.

Sami+ · Jul 21, 2017

Psh, haven't you Puritans ever watched women's sports? Just last night I was watching a wrestling match on pornhub where the competitors were wearing cloth vests tied in a knot over their giant d-cups

ART imitates life

RM8 · Jul 21, 2017

Gestault said:
I'm sorry casual workout clothes disgust you. It's a topic about options for more mainstream-friendly getups for characters, and that's a look that fits the bill with Laura. The fact that apparently her d-tier detault costume is prefereable may say more about your taste than mine.

Some people think not adhering to "Sexy Halloween version / Porn Parody" is unacceptable.

OMG literally burka. I can see people screaming CENSAAAWWRRRSHIP if Laura and Mika looked like this. Once again - this is not acceptable for many people, it's beyond silly.

Lyte Edge · Jul 21, 2017

thumb said:
Which means nothing if the women are artists who are beholden to the creative director's vision. And it's not as though every woman cares about these issues automatically.

In DOA5's case, they started out wanting to tone down everything compared to the previous titles, but received overwhelming amounts of negative feedback from fans and went right back to the "sexy."

Gestault · Jul 21, 2017

RM8 said:
Some people think not adhering to "Sexy Halloween version / Porn Parody" is unacceptable.

OMG literally burka. I can see people screaming CENSAAAWWRRRSHIP if Laura and Mika looked like this. Once again - this is not acceptable for many people, it's beyond silly.

Laura with the getup from the UFC fighter on the left with the jacket from the community skin could be pretty rad with the right colorblocking. I'm still a big fan of the teacher's gi belt on the casual capris though.

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