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V_Arnold · Apr 18, 2012

1. WoW has ten times more detail than anything PS2 could handle. Or even more. And that keeps improving with every expansion.

2. WoW character models >>> Diablo 3 character models. Diablo 3 DOES have insanely good textures, however. Just look at all the real detail on the ground, in the forests, on the enviromental part.

Just because not every stone is having 10,000 cracks, that does not mean textures are suddenly bad and low rez. They went for a clean paint look with good details. Good for them.

Moaradin · Apr 18, 2012

There is nothing plain or clean about the character models. They are just extremely low res. This is all on max graphical settings as well. If you want really nice looking character models that are nice and clean, look at DOTA 2. Everything about that game looks great. Maybe I'm just spoiled coming from that.

Boken · Apr 18, 2012

Upgrade now!

I guess the rumours about it being a trial thingy is true

sazzy · Apr 18, 2012

Moaradin said:
Do you consider these textures normal for the average PC game that comes out in 2012? Looks a lot like WoW in 2004.

the textures in d3 don't seem low-res, they look highly stylized, like a pastel painting.

because of the style, the game will continue to look phenomenal in 10+ years.

either way, i'm not sure about this because i've been having too much fun playing the game to notice silly things like this.

V_Arnold · Apr 18, 2012

Moaradin said:
There is nothing plain or clean about the character models. They are just extremely low res. This is all on max graphical settings as well.

Luckily, I was talking about that 98% other part of the game, the enviroment you play in. Not the character models

Outdoor Miner · Apr 18, 2012

The graphics debate will never end. My 2 cents, I initially was disappointed with the graphics but having played some of Act I it is starting to grow on me. My only hope is that the art in the later parts of the game really open up and blow me away. I don't mind the scaled back graphics if there is a performance gain, which tbh I'm not seeing so far.

Oh and I'll be rolling a male Monk for launch. Witch Doctor for my ranged class alt.

sazzy · Apr 18, 2012

Moaradin said:
There is nothing plain or clean about the character models. They are just extremely low res. This is all on max graphical settings as well.

urgh.

they can't make very high poly models for high end machines and low poly models for low end machines and have them co-exist. why? because of gear. they would have to tune the gear to fit both (or range) of models to appease 1% of the player base.

that's twice (or more) as much work for 1%. its not worth it.

its the same problem with wow. old races can't just be updated - every single piece of gear has to be upgraded as well.

the d3 models/art/environments/overall graphics look excellent for the widest range of people and will do so probably for the longest period of time.

end of story.

edit- if you want a game which only looks OMGWTFSPLOOGE good for a year, you're playing the wrong game

Raide · Apr 18, 2012

Outdoor Miner said:
The graphics debate will never end. My 2 cents, I initially was disappointed with the graphics but having played some of Act I it is starting to grow on me. My only hope is that the art in the later parts of the game really open up and blow me away. I also don't mind the scaled back graphics but the performance gain has to be there, which I'm not seeing so far tbh.

Oh and I'll be rolling a male Monk for launch. Witch Doctor for my ranged class alt.

Considering what they have planned for later on, I am sure later stuff will look damn awesome.

Moaradin · Apr 18, 2012

V_Arnold said:
Luckily, I was talking about that 98% other part of the game, the enviroment you play in. Not the character models

Environments looked simple and nothing too impressive or bad about them. Though character models, be it player models and/or NPCs, are what you will focus on the majority of the time. Seems like a very important aspect that you would want to get right.

Fallout-NL · Apr 18, 2012

Outdoor Miner said:
The graphics debate will never end. My 2 cents, I initially was disappointed with the graphics but having played some of Act I it is starting to grow on me. My only hope is that the art in the later parts of the game really open up and blow me away. I don't mind the scaled back graphics if there is a performance gain, which tbh I'm not seeing so far.

True, it wouldn't be so bad then. Though they say the retail version should be much better.

/edit: Although, as always, my problem isn't so much with fidelity, more with style. It looks nothing like the first two games, and I think that's a shame. But we've been over this so many times for the last 4 years. Time to let go.

Raide · Apr 18, 2012

Moaradin said:
Environments looked simple and nothing too impressive or bad about them. Though character models, be it player models and/or NPCs, are what you will focus on the majority of the time. Seems like a very important aspect that you would want to get right.

You get covered in gear, so what you initially look like is pointless. Also, since you will be clicking and murdering demons around the world, what you look like fades into the background of exploding monsters, bodies flying all over the place and fountains of loot bursting forth.

Mengy · Apr 18, 2012

Moaradin said:
Path of Exile's Art style looks more like the previous Diablo games than Diablo 3 does. It looks better than Diablo 3 on a technical level as well. I never said anything about what Diablo 3 SHOULD look like. I'm just simply stating my observations of the game with the amount of time I got to play it. I don't hold any biased opinions towards either of the games. Both of them weren't on my radar a week ago.

I'd agree with the observation that PoE's style and general look is more like D2 than D3 is, and is better at a technical level. Most people agree that the art style of D3 is a departure from the previous Diablo games. D3's look definitely has a heavy WoW influence, that much is certain. That's not to say that PoE has a better art style than D3, just that it is closer to D2 than D3 is.

However, the fact that I have zero interest in playing PoE and will not be buying it, versus the fact that I will be buying D3 day one and playing it for most likely the next decade, should speak to the point of just how important graphics really are to a game. Blizzard has always understood this fact, that making a good game is not synonymous with making a graphically superior game. So yeah, Diablo 3 is not the best looking Diablo clone out there, nor will it win any technical graphic achievements awards. Who cares. The game is going to rock and be fun to play, for years to come. In the end, that's all I really care about.

sazzy · Apr 18, 2012

Mengy said:
I'd agree with the observation that PoE's style and general look is more like D2 than D3 is, and is better at a technical level. Most people agree that the art style of D3 is a departure from the previous Diablo games. D3's look definitely has a heavy WoW influence, that much is certain. That's not to say that PoE has a better art style than D3, just that it is closer to D2 than D3 is.

However, the fact that I have zero interest in playing PoE and will not be buying it, versus the fact that I will be buying D3 day one and playing it for most likely the next decade, should speak to the point of just how important graphics really are to a game. Blizzard has always understood this fact, that making a good game is not synonymous with making a graphically superior game. So yeah, Diablo 3 is not the best looking Diablo clone out there, nor will it win any technical graphic achievements awards. Who cares. The game is going to rock and be fun to play, for years to come. In the end, that's all I really care about.

^this

blizzard has hit gold with making their games look great years down the line, even if they aren't technically great. why? because people actually play their games in very significant numbers years down the line.

V_Arnold · Apr 18, 2012

Moaradin said:
Environments looked simple and nothing too impressive or bad about them. Though character models, be it player models and/or NPCs, are what you will focus on the majority of the time. Seems like a very important aspect that you would want to get right.

Yeah, they are getting it just right on the distance that the game is played from. Their only mistake is deciding to have a zoomed-in view when selecting a character instead of not zooming in, or not showing a model at all (like with Path of Exile, hehe), because there is no point in making assets for something that you will never play with - as opposed to what is in World of Warcraft, where players see the characters zoomed in a lot more.

undu · Apr 18, 2012

Mengy said:
However, the fact that I have zero interest in playing PoE and will not be buying it, versus the fact that I will be buying D3 day one and playing it for most likely the next decade, should speak to the point of just how important graphics really are to a game.

It shows, it's a a F2P game.

Fallout-NL · Apr 18, 2012

Mengy said:
I'd agree with the observation that PoE's style and general look is more like D2 than D3 is, and is better at a technical level. Most people agree that the art style of D3 is a departure from the previous Diablo games. D3's look definitely has a heavy WoW influence, that much is certain. That's not to say that PoE has a better art style than D3, just that it is closer to D2 than D3 is.

Yeah, this statement is accurate.

Aesthet1c · Apr 18, 2012

I guess I have my blinders on because I have never felt that Diablo 3 looks dated. It's very stylized with a painted look. I think the graphics are awesome, the spell effects are amazing, and the animations really shine.

Seriously, people that are complaining, have you seen the Barbarian spotlight video?

Boken · Apr 18, 2012

Look guys, I am the most reasonable and objective person in the world and so I shall settle this.

Yes, sadly Diablo 3 is lacking in the technical department - texture blurriness, lower than expected polycounts and the game overall is a little blurry for some reason. However, the art style is so cohesive, stylised and different it makes up for the technical flaws completely.

Also, PoE art style is only closer to D2 than D3 is because D3 tries to create its own art style. D2's art style is much much better than PoE's.

V_Arnold · Apr 18, 2012

I do not feel like PoE looks anything like Diablo II, and I play them almost side by side regularly. The only thing that makes it similar is the Light Radius. Apply it to Diablo 3, and bam, so darky, so edgy, so hell yeah....

...and I am not even joking.

sazzy · Apr 18, 2012

Boken said:
Look guys, I am the most reasonable and objective person in the world and so I shall settle this.

Yes, sadly Diablo 3 is lacking in the technical department - texture blurriness, lower than expected polycounts and the game overall is a little blurry for some reason. However, the art style is so cohesive, stylised and different it makes up for the technical flaws completely.

at 1080p i haven't noticed any blurry textures.

Boken · Apr 18, 2012

Maybe blurry is too strong a word, but they certainly could be higher res

KKRT00 · Apr 18, 2012

Aesthet1c said:
and the animations are laughable at best.

No. I have even proven it in other thread.
People should stop talking things out of their asses or repeat PR bullshit like 'this art style will make this game looking 10 years from now!' or 'Blizzard make the best art and animations in industry'.

If game dont look good now [for many people it doesnt], it wont look better 10 years from now. And why will Diablo 3 look better than for example Mass Effect 2, Dark Souls, or Crysis 2 10 years from now?
And why are we even talking about 10 years span? Its not like Diablo 3 was planned to be released 12 years after D2, they just mismanaged franchise.

sazzy said:
blizzard has hit gold with making their games look great years down the line, even if they aren't technically great. why? because people actually play their games in very significant numbers years down the line.

Or maybe, because they dont make sequels for 10+ years? Its not like people dont demand new games from them. How long have You waited for D3? 9 years?

Raide · Apr 18, 2012

KKRT00 said:
No. I have even proven it in other thread.
People should stop talking things out of their asses or repeat PR bullshit like 'this art style will make this game looking 10 years from now!' or 'Blizzard make the best art and animations in industry'.

If game dont look good now [for many people it doesnt], it wont look better 10 years from now. And why will Diablo 3 look better than for example Mass Effect 2, Dark Souls, or Crysis 2 10 years from now?
And why are we even talking about 10 years span? Its not like Diablo 3 was planned to be released 12 years after D2, they just mismanaged franchise.

WoW proves you wrong. What it looked like on launch is utterly different to what it looks like now, in terms of scale, art and overall design.

Boken · Apr 18, 2012

Because art styles hold whereas purely technical aspects will always be bettered by time. It's not PR to say that good art styles are timeless. Whether or not you think it's good art is a different matter.

Moaradin · Apr 18, 2012

Good art style and good graphics are not mutually exclusive. Diablo 3's art style being good is debatable, but the game would certainly look a lot better with higher res textures at the very least.

Mr. Luchador · Apr 18, 2012

Looks like the accidentally open beta has been closed up.

forrest · Apr 18, 2012

KKRT00 said:
No. I have even proven it in other thread.
People should stop talking things out of their asses or repeat PR bullshit like 'this art style will make this game looking 10 years from now!' or 'Blizzard make the best art and animations in industry'.

If game dont look good now [for many people it doesnt], it wont look better 10 years from now. And why will Diablo 3 look better than for example Mass Effect 2, Dark Souls, or Crysis 2 10 years from now?
And why are we even talking about 10 years span? Its not like Diablo 3 was planned to be released 12 years after D2,they just mismanaged franchise.

Or maybe, because they dont make sequels for 10+ years? Its not like people dont demand new games from them. How long have You waited for D3? 9 years?

Please continue, your insight and insider knowledge intrigues me.

Mengy · Apr 18, 2012

KKRT00 said:
People should stop talking things out of their asses ...

...

Its not like Diablo 3 was planned to be released 12 years after D2, they just mismanaged franchise.

Blizzard mismanaged their Diablo franchise? REALLY??? How exactly? Speaking of people talking out of their asses. I know you love PoE and think it is miles above D3 but come on KKRT00, you don't need to talk nonsense like that...

Tacitus_ · Apr 18, 2012

Moaradin said:
Do you consider these textures normal for the average PC game that comes out in 2012? Looks a lot like WoW in 2004.

So you're moving the goalposts then?

Lothars · Apr 18, 2012

Moaradin said:
Good art style and good graphics are not mutually exclusive. Diablo 3's art style being good is debatable, but the game would certainly look a lot better with higher res textures at the very least.

I don't think it is debatable at all, The Art Style is good. There's things about the game that are debateable but I feel the Art Style isn't one of them.

AllIsOneIsNone · Apr 18, 2012

I haven't played the d3 beta, but I have played PoE and while the graphics look crisp, thats almost the problem. Everything looks very disjointed and static; the environments don't look good as a whole. From what I've seen, diablo definitely holds up better even if it isn't that sharp. Everything looks more like a painting, everything feels like it belongs together.

Aesthet1c · Apr 18, 2012

KKRT00 said:
No. I have even proven it in other thread.
People should stop talking things out of their asses or repeat PR bullshit like 'this art style will make this game looking 10 years from now!' or 'Blizzard make the best art and animations in industry'.

If game dont look good now [for many people it doesnt], it wont look better 10 years from now. And why will Diablo 3 look better than for example Mass Effect 2, Dark Souls, or Crysis 2 10 years from now?
And why are we even talking about 10 years span? Its not like Diablo 3 was planned to be released 12 years after D2, they just mismanaged franchise.

Or maybe, because they dont make sequels for 10+ years? Its not like people dont demand new games from them. How long have You waited for D3? 9 years?

My opinion on PoE's animations aren't coming from my ass, they are coming from playing the beta. Their animations are shit.

KKRT00 · Apr 18, 2012

Raide said:
WoW proves you wrong. What it looked like on launch is utterly different to what it looks like now, in terms of scale, art and overall design.

WoW is a MMO. Many MMOs that lasted for years got graphical overhauls.

Aesthet1c said:
My opinion on PoE's animations aren't coming from my ass, they are coming from playing the beta. Their animations are shit.

http://i.minus.com/ibfXV2Zo3q2RTr.gif
http://i.minus.com/ibdh7MuamXXoqA.gif

Mengy said:
Blizzard mismanaged their Diablo franchise? REALLY??? How exactly? Speaking of people talking out of their asses. I know you love PoE and think it is miles above D3 but come on KKRT00, you don't need to talk nonsense like that...

They fired first team and then delayed game for 2 years and cut like 5 big features? Not mismanaged at all.

Raide · Apr 18, 2012

KKRT00 said:
WoW is a MMO. Many MMOs that lasted for years got graphical overhauls.

Diablo 2 lasted for 10 years and it got graphical upgrades and tweaks over the years. Not being an MMO does not mean it won't get upgrades. Even the community will make graphical upgrades in the opening weeks of launch.

If Diablo 3 makes it 10 years (I am sure it will) we can expect plenty of updates, especially when Expansion packs are involved (Like D2)

Yoshichan · Apr 18, 2012

Your PoE.gif isn't working, brah.

Ahhh, it's gonna be so nice to have an OT for this thread. No more of these repetitive, boring comparisons.

V_Arnold · Apr 18, 2012

KKRT00 said:
They fired first team and then delayed game for 2 years and cut like 5 big features? Not mismanaged at all.

Not at all.

Raide · Apr 18, 2012

Yoshichan said:
Your PoE.gif isn't working, brah.

Ahhh, it's gonna be so nice to have an OT for this thread. No more of these repetitive, boring comparisons.

This.

I am playing PoE now and its a fun diversion but once D3 hits, everything gets shelved.

Thrakier · Apr 18, 2012

I like the artstyle of POE a lot more and I do agree that DIII should've looked like that. Let's be honest, blizzard obviously tries to cater to the WoW community as well, so they made something that, in a sense, is "similar" when you look at it first. Also they didn't want you to need a highend pc to play it, their WoW community is huge and there are probably some pcs last upgraded 2004 so...

POE though is a no go for me, because it's f2p AND you can't zoom out the camera. I lost interest in it after 10 minutes in the beta just because of that.

Artadius · Apr 18, 2012

KKRT00 said:
WoW is a MMO. Many MMOs that lasted for years got graphical overhauls.

http://i.minus.com/ibfXV2Zo3q2RTr.gif
http://i.minus.com/jbdh7MuamXXoqA.gif

They fired first team and then delayed game for 2 years and cut like 5 big features? Not mismanaged at all.

D3 is more like an MMO than D2 was. Online only and with a sustainable income method (RMAH). It'll be in their best interest to update this game more than they did with D2 over the years.

So, for your gifs. The D3 one is zoomed in (not how you play the game) and the PoE isn't? That's objective? Plus your PoE gif is broken. And it looks like Shit Mountain from Dragon Age 2. And, quite frankly, the D3 animations look pretty good to me...especially when playing and at proper zoom and speed.

Firing the first team, delaying the game, and cutting features is called management... not mismanagement. Look at plenty of other cases around the video game industry where companies are forced to release games in buggy states with features promised but under delivered. That is mismanagement.

AllIsOneIsNone · Apr 18, 2012

Thrakier said:
I like the artstyle of POE a lot more and I do agree that DIII should've looked like that. Let's be honest, blizzard obviously try to cater to the WoW community as well, so they made something that, in a sense, is "similar" when you look at it first. Also they didn't want you to need a highend pc to play it, there WoW community is huge and there are probably some pcs last upgraded 2004 so...

POE though is a no go for me, because it's f2p AND you can't zoom out the camera. I lost interest in it after 10 minutes in the beta just because of that.

The developers said they're probably going to make it an option to zoom out, and f2p is the future, brah. Its not pay 2 win, they're trying very hard to make that clear.

Yoshichan · Apr 18, 2012

Raide said:
This.

I am playing PoE now and its a fun diversion but once D3 hits, everything gets shelved.

Although I do remember just now that you can still talk and compare graphics/animations/particles-on-specific-demon-balls in the OT... so yeah KK and his minions will probably join the thread as-well. Because remember guys, he's still buying D3 - and probably going to play it more than half of you in this thread! He just loves comparing like it's PS3 vs 360 in 2005 all over again, baby!

SteveWD40 · Apr 18, 2012

There is room for all the ARPG's on my HDD, and since only D3 is premium pricing (TL2 is £15, POE is f2p) then I will never want for one again.

It's good to have alternatives for when Blizzards servers are down after all

sazzy · Apr 18, 2012

there should be rules for the OT to not bring in BS about graphics

Aesthet1c · Apr 18, 2012

Thrakier said:
I like the artstyle of POE a lot more and I do agree that DIII should've looked like that. Let's be honest, blizzard obviously tries to cater to the WoW community as well, so they made something that, in a sense, is "similar" when you look at it first. Also they didn't want you to need a highend pc to play it, their WoW community is huge and there are probably some pcs last upgraded 2004 so...

POE though is a no go for me, because it's f2p AND you can't zoom out the camera. I lost interest in it after 10 minutes in the beta just because of that.

I think it's not so much that they cater to the WoW audience, I think it's more that's just how Blizzards team designs art assets. All of Blizzards 3D games have the same look. (see Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3)

KKRT00 · Apr 18, 2012

Raide said:
Diablo 2 lasted for 10 years and it got graphical upgrades and tweaks over the years. Not being an MMO does not mean it won't get upgrades. Even the community will make graphical upgrades in the opening weeks of launch.

WoW got new renderer and overhauled assets for every region, Diablo 2 got new resolution support and upscaling in window mode, great comparison indeed ...
What about Warcraft 3 upgrades? You know, there werent any.

Yoshichan said:
Your PoE.gif isn't working, brah.

How its not working? Link or You just dont see the difference? Both arent amazing [like those from Dragon Dogma for example], but without a doubt PoE one got more detailed animation. Calling animation shit when one has detailed hand animation that reach quicker and other dont, its simple bs.

Yoshichan said:
Although I do remember just now that you can still talk and compare graphics/animations/particles-on-specific-demon-balls in the OT... so yeah KK and his minions will probably join the thread as-well. Because remember guys, he's still buying D3 - and probably going to play it more than half of you in this thread! He just loves comparing like it's PS3 vs 360 in 2005 all over again, baby!

I havent started this discussion, but i dont like BS and false informations.

--edit--
Link is fixed.

forrest · Apr 18, 2012

I'll just share this again for anyone who may have missed it. It's the entire GDC presentation "The Art of Diablo III" in its entirety including slides.

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1015306/The-Art-of-Diablo

What I find hilarious, is that many of the arguments made regarding the look of Diablo 3, especially when compared to PoE, is that Blizzard is some how incapable of producing what people are considering technically superior graphical techniques. In fact, there isn't one decision regarding Diablo 3's graphical approach that wasn't an extremely calculated decision be it technical or artistic.

Have you ever looked at the list of those employed at Blizzard? It's a veritable who's who of the industry's best artists, programmers, animators, etc. Still think Blizzard is incapable of creating what you think is superior art or graphical techniques? If so, I think you may be thinking a little naively.

So the archer in PoE pulls an arrow and notches it while in D3 the demon hunter does not. Wow, Blizzard's art department must be full of a bunch of inadequate animators. Seriously? Do you think this is a huge priority for Blizzard in the bigger scope of things right now? Never mind that the Ranger in PoE has a static quiver that never moves while the demon hunter has a huge array of quivers located in different positions based on the armor worn. Never mind that in the second GIF of the PoE animation examples the Ranger actually has the arrow backwards in her hand and it instantly flips in the right direction. Think priority and scope here. I mean PoE isn't going to have both genders for each class. Is it because they are incapable? No, they just don't have the resources for it at the moment. Again, priority and scope.

Do you really think Blizzard is incapable of producing excessively noisy textures with an overblown specular map so that the normal maps look more pronounced? While you may see technical achievement, I see poor decisions and rookie mistakes. Visually, while the lighting in the caves with spec and normal maps make look cool, there is a lot of immaturity in regards to screen readability when everything is equally high detailed and viewed from a distance.

In the end I could really give two fucks which game your going to play, but jesus christ can we just end with all of the idiocy being stated as if it were some fact?

And yes, at this point...I'm mad bro!

-ps- This is the gif I was referring to. It came from the other D3 bashing thread.

kvn · Apr 18, 2012

Moaradin said:
Because I just played Diablo 3 for the first time and I wanted to try and give my unbiased opinion on the game itself in the official Diablo 3 thread? I was mostly positive about the game, but I thought the graphics and art style were a flaw. Sorry if my one complaint doesn't fit your regularly scheduled circlejerk.

I was somehow meaning to defend you.

AllIsOneIsNone · Apr 18, 2012

KKRT00 said:
WoW got new renderer and overhauled assets for every region, Diablo 2 got new resolution support and upscaling in window mode, great comparison indeed ...
What about Warcraft 3 upgrades? You know, there wasnt any.

How its not working? Link or You just dont see the difference? Both arent amazing [like those from Dragon Dogma for example], but without a doubt PoE one got more detailed animation.

I havent started this discussion, but i dont like BS and false information.

the PoE gif is just a picture, no animation.

Yoshichan · Apr 18, 2012

KKRT00 said:
How its not working? Link or You just dont see the difference? Both arent amazing [like those from Dragon Dogma for example], but without a doubt PoE one got more detailed animation.

I mean, the .gif isn't moving. It's completely stopped (your D3.gif works).

VGChampion · Apr 18, 2012

sazzy said:
there should be rules for the OT to not bring in BS about graphics

As annoying as it is, it would make sense to talk about it in the game thread.

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