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fvng
Member
(11-02-2017, 01:19 PM)
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The switch uses cartridges? So all the games have instant loading like games in the 90s? that's awesome
tsab
Member
(11-02-2017, 01:27 PM)
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Yeah this is ridiculous. I wanted to double dip on games that I haven't finished (for the portability) but I'll skip this one.
Yoshi
Member
(11-02-2017, 01:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nikana

The hell does this have to do with anything?

All console vendors allow disfunctional games releasing to retail. More than one publisher making use of this.

It is supremely disgusting and I will certainly never buy a game that use such a horrendous "trick".
Rellik
Member
(11-02-2017, 02:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by MetalSlug

Might not bother getting it then. Be as well waiting for Steam Xmas sale.

Just a warning. The PC version is terrible and not being updated.
Harlock
Member
(11-02-2017, 02:15 PM)
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You need to download the extra data?
Nicktendo86
Member
(11-02-2017, 02:16 PM)
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I've not got a switch (had a go on my brother's though) and it seems that skimping on the onboard memory seems to be the one glaring hardware misstep Nintendo made.
Nosgotham
Junior Member
(11-02-2017, 02:18 PM)

Originally Posted by fvng

The switch uses cartridges? So all the games have instant loading like games in the 90s? that's awesome

the system itself OS is crazy instant fast too. i went back to xbox one and cringed at how slow everything is
nkarafo
Member
(11-02-2017, 03:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by PuppetMaster

Will not buy this. This is inexcuseable for a game this old.

How big is this game on other consoles?
JimboJones
Member
(11-02-2017, 03:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rellik

Just a warning. The PC version is terrible and not being updated.

Plays fine , there is even a 60fps mod.
Big Blue
Member
(11-02-2017, 03:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by PuppetMaster

Will not buy this. This is inexcuseable for a game this old.

I don't understand how people can blame Rockstar for this. It's Nintendo that deserves flack for 32 GB in a console released in 2017. THAT's inexcusable.
tkscz
Member
(11-02-2017, 03:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nicktendo86

I've not got a switch (had a go on my brother's though) and it seems that skimping on the onboard memory seems to be the one glaring hardware misstep Nintendo made.

But we all know the price of the Switch would've shot up from it, so sacrifices had to be made.
Fbh
Member
(11-02-2017, 03:57 PM)
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Yeah this sucks. Has Nintendo said anything about bigger cartridges ? I know it would increase the price of games but I'd take that over physical games that don't even start without tens of GB of data that has to be downloaded.

Originally Posted by BenjaminBeaumont

Why isnít there the same level of outrage for the billion gig daybone patches that are required for all AAA games released on PS4 and XBOX?

Because the vast majority of AAA games on PC/Ps4/Xb1 are actually playable without the day one patch (at least the single player portion)

Games like COD WW2 that actually need a day one patch to be played have gotten the same reactions as this.
Yoshi
Member
(11-02-2017, 04:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Big Blue

I don't understand how people can blame Rockstar for this. It's Nintendo that deserves flack for 32 GB in a console released in 2017. THAT's inexcusable.

Rockstar could just get a bigger cartridge? Even if Switch had 10 TB of memory, it would still be shit to have a physical game that does not work out of the box - it's hell for preservation.
Horsemama1956
Member
(11-02-2017, 04:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Rockstar could just get a bigger cartridge? Even if Switch had 10 TB of memory, it would still be shit to have a physical game that does not work out of the box - it's hell for preservation.

Well, that's still on Nintendo for releasing their consoles the way they do. I would imagine Publishers will just not even bother with higher end games on the switch, like they did with the N64, GCN, Wii and Wii U. There may be a pattern here.

But Portable!
Bickle2
Member
(11-02-2017, 04:34 PM)

Originally Posted by prag16

That's the issue. Somebody's pocketing something. There's no way a 16GB cartridge vs 8GB justifies a price tag $10 higher. It's almost certainly less than $5 difference in terms of actual manufacturing cost.

Who is pocketing the difference? The manufacturer? Nintendo? The publisher? Some combination thereof?

Really Nintendo should be eating the cost in order to drive up 3rd party sales and make it up on volume while also increasing the viability of their platform.

Nintendo is the manufacturer. All cartridges have to be made in Japan, just like the good old days. Blu-ray Discs have local factories. Sony presses most NA product in California, Germany in Europe, and so on. So thatís why I hit on $3-4. $3 more for the card, and probably the same in additional distribution costs assuming theyíre tossing it on a boat, which they seem to be given the delays.

While Nintendoís manufacturing team has a small likelyhood of being unbelievably incompetent, mysteriously causing shortages on all their products for the last thirty years, I feel their experience with thr DS should have had them well prepared for sourcing components, even in the (and I emphasize how small the likelyhood is theyíre not deliberately shorting hardware). Companies like Nintendo will typically reserve components months or years in advance. I would give educated speculation that Nintendo simply looked at their games and said ďmeh, 16gb will workĒ, as all they were doing is porting WiiU games, and didnít bother to order bigger cards, and they wonít get orders of them in probably until after the first of the year. And even when they do, id count on a lot of companies using the smaller cards anyway to save money.

Nintendo has little motivation mind you, as theyíd prefer you buy digital to keep games out of the used market and to give them much bigger pieces of the pie. First party games are 90% instead of 50-60, and third party close to $20 instead of $7-10 on a cart (before gouge, could they be looking to close that gap? Maybe, but seems more complex than they usually go for)

The bigger question no one is addressing is this: can the Switch even use cards bigger than 32GB? The 360 canít, and there are a lot of parallels between them
Bickle2
Member
(11-02-2017, 04:36 PM)

Originally Posted by Big Blue

I don't understand how people can blame Rockstar for this. It's Nintendo that deserves flack for 32 GB in a console released in 2017. THAT's inexcusable.

Theybreleased a 2007 console with an incomplete set 2007 features. Are you really that surprised?
lensoftruth
Member
(11-02-2017, 04:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by nkarafo

How big is this game on other consoles?

16GB on steam
Camaway2
Member
(11-02-2017, 04:47 PM)
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I am not buying it then. I was on the fence but this pushes me over. It's not like they need to patch the game, it's purely a cynical ploy to put the costs on the shoulders of the consumers.

Nintendo needs to lower the margins on manufacturing 32GB cartridges.

We, the Switch users, need to vote with our wallets.
JimboJones
Member
(11-02-2017, 05:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bickle2

Nintendo is the manufacturer. All cartridges have to be made in Japan, just like the good old days. Blu-ray Discs have local factories. Sony presses most NA product in California, Germany in Europe, and so on. So thatís why I hit on $3-4. $3 more for the card, and probably the same in additional distribution costs assuming theyíre tossing it on a boat, which they seem to be given the delays.

While Nintendoís manufacturing team has a small likelyhood of being unbelievably incompetent, mysteriously causing shortages on all their products for the last thirty years, I feel their experience with thr DS should have had them well prepared for sourcing components, even in the (and I emphasize how small the likelyhood is theyíre not deliberately shorting hardware). Companies like Nintendo will typically reserve components months or years in advance. I would give educated speculation that Nintendo simply looked at their games and said ďmeh, 16gb will workĒ, as all they were doing is porting WiiU games, and didnít bother to order bigger cards, and they wonít get orders of them in probably until after the first of the year. And even when they do, id count on a lot of companies using the smaller cards anyway to save money.

Nintendo has little motivation mind you, as theyíd prefer you buy digital to keep games out of the used market and to give them much bigger pieces of the pie. First party games are 90% instead of 50-60, and third party close to $20 instead of $7-10 on a cart (before gouge, could they be looking to close that gap? Maybe, but seems more complex than they usually go for)

The bigger question no one is addressing is this: can the Switch even use cards bigger than 32GB? The 360 canít, and there are a lot of parallels between them

Since when did the 360 use cards?
MyNameIsRamo
Junior Member
(11-02-2017, 05:09 PM)
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As someone who never played it on 360 or ps3 I'm riding my one man hype train into the sunset regardless
Sakura
Foreigners: Give them an inch (of animu panties), and they'll take a mile.

DO NOT CONSORT WITH FOREIGNERS.
(11-02-2017, 05:27 PM)
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Why didn't they just use a bigger cart...?
They are already charging a premium price yet choose to skimp on the cartridge size seems silly.
Why are you paying for the 'cartridge tax' when you have to download have the game anyway. Might as well just sell you a box with a download code in it.
Bickle2
Member
(11-02-2017, 05:36 PM)

Originally Posted by JimboJones

Since when did the 360 use cards?

FAT32 has a 32GB partition size limit, and the WiiU was designed to basically ape it for ease of porting. The Switch was designed, st least right now for easy WiiU porting so they could recycle as much tech as possible. Both systems (so Iím told on Switch, havenít verified myself, though existing evidence supports it) partition the volume into 32GB chunks and read them as a single volume.

Microsoft did patch it a year or so ago so tha USB volumes are treated the same as the internal drives.

Nintendo likely would not have done something similar
Sir_Stoo
Member
(11-02-2017, 05:51 PM)
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By all accounts the game is bad. And like, 6 years old now?

Download size and price is the least of the problems here. The game itself is flat-out undesirable given the competition it will be facing this xmas.

Especially when Rockstar are sat on the last-gen version of GTAV ready for porting.
Ryu Hayabusa
Member
(11-02-2017, 05:58 PM)
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Preorder cancelled.
Futaleufu
Member
(11-02-2017, 05:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lyriell

That's some feedback.

How is this Nintendos fault?

They designed the hardware without considering the 3rd parties needs. It suits their own games because none features extensive audio files or textures.
KingV
Member
(11-02-2017, 06:21 PM)

Originally Posted by Bickle2

Theybreleased a 2007 console with an incomplete set 2007 features. Are you really that surprised?

This is a hot ass take. The first iPhone came out in 2007 with 128MB of memory and 4GB of storage for like $600 with a 2 year phone contract.

The switch is several orders of magnitude better device than anything available in 2007.
Ganondolf
Member
(11-02-2017, 06:27 PM)
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the 32GB chips are probably expensive. Till chip prices reduce I expect this to be the standard. Publishers don't want to cut into their margins and probably Nintendo does not have much leeway to reduce prices on their side.

I think Nintendo probably sales them as close to purchase price as they can as I don't think they want the bad press every time a game is over 16GB. Also you would think Nintendo would be bending backwards to keep Rockster and Bethesda happy.
KingV
Member
(11-02-2017, 06:31 PM)

Originally Posted by Bickle2

FAT32 has a 32GB partition size limit, and the WiiU was designed to basically ape it for ease of porting. The Switch was designed, st least right now for easy WiiU porting so they could recycle as much tech as possible. Both systems (so Iím told on Switch, havenít verified myself, though existing evidence supports it) partition the volume into 32GB chunks and read them as a single volume.

Microsoft did patch it a year or so ago so tha USB volumes are treated the same as the internal drives.

Nintendo likely would not have done something similar

Nintendo Switch specifically says it supports SDXC cards, which probably means the file system is exFAT and not FAT32, since that is the standard on the spec.

Edit: i suspect what is actually happening is that 8GB cards are much cheaper than 16 and 32GB cards because they existed on the 3DS as well and companies are trying to avoid the higher costs. Though Iím sure those costs will also come down over time, and in a year or two the day 1 patches will be lesser, or not at all.
Bickle2
Member
(11-02-2017, 06:31 PM)

Originally Posted by KingV

This is a hot ass take. The first iPhone came out in 2007 with 128MB of memory and 4GB of storage for like $600 with a 2 year phone contract.

The switch is several orders of magnitude better device than anything available in 2007.

Itís maybe 20-30% faster than an Xbox 360. A 2005 console. And please donít cite the teraflop BS. That is on the full powered X1 chip, the Switch is downclocked, using FP16 operations (Switch games are made with FP32, which is twice the work), and under extremely ideal and hyper cooled circumstances.

And an iPhone is a completely different beast with vastly different design goals. It was designed to be a smart phone. Not a game console, especially in the early models when Jobs was still in charge. He hated games. Nintendo considers it a console, not a handheld and so itís judged as one.
Nikana
Member
(11-02-2017, 06:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bickle2

Itís maybe 20-30% faster than an Xbox 360. A 2005 console. And please donít cite the teraflop BS. That is on the full powered X1 chip, the Switch is downclocked, using FP16 operations (Switch games are made with FP32, which is twice the work), and under extremely ideal and hyper cooled circumstances.

And an iPhone is a completely different beast with vastly different design goals. It was designed to be a smart phone. Not a game console, especially in the early models when Jobs was still in charge. He hated games. Nintendo considers it a console, not a handheld and so itís judged as one.

You'll last long here.
Osukaa
Member
(11-02-2017, 06:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by prag16

That's the issue. Somebody's pocketing something. There's no way a 16GB cartridge vs 8GB justifies a price tag $10 higher. It's almost certainly less than $5 difference in terms of actual manufacturing cost.

Who is pocketing the difference? The manufacturer? Nintendo? The publisher? Some combination thereof?

Really Nintendo should be eating the cost in order to drive up 3rd party sales and make it up on volume while also increasing the viability of their platform.

I was thinking the same thing. I know Nintendo is on a roll right now but jeeze come on Nintendo, step in and say ok let us eat the the cost to encourage more 3rd party developers on board.
Shifty1897
Member
(11-02-2017, 06:47 PM)
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The only 2 games I currently have on my Switch is Zelda and Mario, so I've got plenty of storage for LA Noire. Remember when people threw a fit that the Vita had proprietary storage? Then Nintendo tries to dodge a bullet and announces SD storage on Switch... and people still throw a fit. You just can't win with entitled gamers.
MindCollizion
Member
(11-02-2017, 07:35 PM)

Originally Posted by Shifty1897

The only 2 games I currently have on my Switch is Zelda and Mario, so I've got plenty of storage for LA Noire. Remember when people threw a fit that the Vita had proprietary storage? Then Nintendo tries to dodge a bullet and announces SD storage on Switch... and people still throw a fit. You just can't win with entitled gamers.

By the looks of it, there's still plenty of those entitled gamers whom stayed here on GAF. I sometimes wonder if they just bitch about everything in life and nothing is ever good enough for them.
jts
...hate me...
(11-02-2017, 07:38 PM)
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That's a hard pass from me.

I might have closed an eye to such shit practices for GTA V, not for god damn LA Noire.
leburn98
Member
(11-02-2017, 07:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Big Blue

I don't understand how people can blame Rockstar for this. It's Nintendo that deserves flack for 32 GB in a console released in 2017. THAT's inexcusable.

The amount of storage on the console has zero to do with the complaints people are having with this. It's the fact that those who purchase a physical version of the game are forced to download 14GB of data before you can even play the game. That's what people are taking issue with.

Anyways, I have canceled my pre-order after this news. I have a 128GB SD card for my Switch so space isn't an issue for me, it's the principle of the thing. If I wanted a digital copy I would have purchased a digital copy. If Rockstar wants to charge a Switch tax while simultaneously opting for the lower capacity card, I simply can't support this business practice. In comparison, while 2K made you download data to play NBA 2K18, they didn't add a Switch tax to it. Despite the horrendous MTs in that game, I can at least commend 2K for keeping the game the same price across all three platforms.
Gamezone
Member
(11-02-2017, 07:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sir_Stoo

By all accounts the game is bad. And like, 6 years old now?

Download size and price is the least of the problems here. The game itself is flat-out undesirable given the competition it will be facing this xmas.

Especially when Rockstar are sat on the last-gen version of GTAV ready for porting.

A popular game like FIFA 18, complete on the cartrige sold next to nothing on the Switch. This game is 6 years and incomplete, and requires an SD card. There's no hope.
MarcelDG88
Junior Member
(11-14-2017, 01:27 PM)
huh, just got my retail copy in and it seems that LA noire doesn't need 14gb of free space but just 7gb according to the game box

(its dutch so if you want to know what all the text means)
Toadthemushroom
Member
(11-14-2017, 02:06 PM)

Originally Posted by MarcelDG88

huh, just got my retail copy in and it seems that LA noire doesn't need 14gb of free space but just 7gb according to the game box

(its dutch so if you want to know what all the text means)

If you boot the game without downloading the update it says 6.45GB as well. You can start a new game without the download but I wonder how far you can play?

FYI - installed patch takes 14GB of space. Not sure if the 7GB figure is correct since Rocket League (5GB) took me less than half the time to download than the LA Noire update.
Spukc
Member
(11-14-2017, 02:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by MarcelDG88

huh, just got my retail copy in and it seems that LA noire doesn't need 14gb of free space but just 7gb according to the game box

(its dutch so if you want to know what all the text means)

I used google translate on your picture.

at least 7 GB. A microSD card is recommended (available separately). The storage requirements can be changed. For more information go to rockstargames.com/lanoire/storage Important. We recommend using a microSD card with a minimum read speed of 60 MB / sec. In order to be able to use online services, you need wireless internet and you must agree to the network-related terms and conditions and privacy policy. You may also need to create or link a Nintendo account. Some online services may not be available in all countries.

But they warn you they can change storage requirements
So this is shit.
Bickle2
Member
(11-14-2017, 04:32 PM)

Originally Posted by Spukc

I used google translate on your picture.



But they warn you they can change storage requirements
So this is shit.

Itís just CYA lawyer speak. Thereís no additional content to be had for the gMe, itís just that future patches could, but not necessarily will, change the game size
protomouse
Member
(11-14-2017, 08:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bickle2

FAT32 has a 32GB partition size limit

No it doesn't. It's a limitation, likely arbitrary, with the Windows formatting utility since Windows 2000. My guess is that Microsoft wanted to turn people away from FAT32 and onto NTFS. You can create larger partitions using a third party tool, or with the standard tools on another OS. Source: I have a 64 GB card in my 3DS.
WiiU0706
Member
(11-14-2017, 08:41 PM)
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I had thought the Switch Digital Version would be the same price as the others but it is the exact same price of the physical version
Poppyseed
Member
(11-14-2017, 08:52 PM)

Originally Posted by Shifty1897

The only 2 games I currently have on my Switch is Zelda and Mario, so I've got plenty of storage for LA Noire. Remember when people threw a fit that the Vita had proprietary storage? Then Nintendo tries to dodge a bullet and announces SD storage on Switch... and people still throw a fit. You just can't win with entitled gamers.

Originally Posted by MindCollizion

By the looks of it, there's still plenty of those entitled gamers whom stayed here on GAF. I sometimes wonder if they just bitch about everything in life and nothing is ever good enough for them.

If you really canít see the difference between what Sony did (wrong) and what Nintendo is doing here (also wrong, for different reasons) I donít know what to tell you.
Gamezone
Member
(11-14-2017, 08:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by MarcelDG88

huh, just got my retail copy in and it seems that LA noire doesn't need 14gb of free space but just 7gb according to the game box

(its dutch so if you want to know what all the text means)

I still don't see the point in these digital/physical hybrid games they are pushing out.
BANGS
Member
(11-14-2017, 09:29 PM)
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Why even buy physical if you can't play physical? Might as well just download the whole thing, right?
MarcelDG88
Junior Member
(11-14-2017, 10:00 PM)

Originally Posted by BANGS

Why even buy physical if you can't play physical? Might as well just download the whole thing, right?

Well you can play it without the download, there is a yt video that proof's it. But it clearly states that you need to dload 6,75gb to enjoy the full experience whatever that means.
mikeebi3
Member
(11-14-2017, 10:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ganondolf

the 32GB chips are probably expensive. Till chip prices reduce I expect this to be the standard. Publishers don't want to cut into their margins and probably Nintendo does not have much leeway to reduce prices on their side.

I think Nintendo probably sales them as close to purchase price as they can as I don't think they want the bad press every time a game is over 16GB. Also you would think Nintendo would be bending backwards to keep Rockster and Bethesda happy.

this

Would any of you be fine with paying a $20 premium on Switch cartridge games?
Bickle2
Member
(11-14-2017, 11:07 PM)

Originally Posted by mikeebi3

this

Would any of you be fine with paying a $20 premium on Switch cartridge games?

I can ourchase a 32GB MicroSD card better than the ones used for switch carts for $6.99 on sale In no way is it plausible they need to charge that much. Iíve manufactured merchandise on SD cards as well as disc, while thr manufacturing premium is easily 3x for the cards, it in no way is representative of the premiums hitting retail
Zog
Junior Member
(11-15-2017, 01:06 AM)

Originally Posted by mikeebi3

this

Would any of you be fine with paying a $20 premium on Switch cartridge games?

I would be ok with them being $20 more, then I would personally wait for a price drop or a sale price to buy it at $60 or less.

Thinking about the future, I would only want physical games that do not rely on a download to be complete. Patches are a thing that we can't avoid but the whole game should always be on the physical media at the very least.

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