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it_wasn't_me
Junior Member
(11-12-2017, 05:01 PM)

Originally Posted by tryDEATH

Your clueless Masayasu Ito the executive VP of SIE said this in regards to skipping on a UDH player for the PS4P "It's a balancing act, you have to look at the cost and a 4K Blu-ray disc player would be costly," So clearly its a considerable expense and its coming from a authority in the know. Again they are using the same exact main components pushing the system and the price difference is minimal, because they are buying these parts in mass quantities where they are already getting the best possible price.

You're clueless. Do some research how much UHD cost before spewing shit. Pushing higher clocks, pushing more FLOPS, pushing more bandwidth and also add a more RAM even if it is the "same" tech, all that cost more. Period.

This is a FACT. Again :

Sony aimed for 399, MS aimed for 499. That's a fact and 100$ and year later release are big difference and it can allow to put a more components with higher clocks, FLOPS etc. and some components become cheaper through time, even in a few months.
DESTROYA
Member
(11-12-2017, 05:25 PM)
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While I love the extra performance of the One X , I canít justify paying $500 just to play better multiplats and exclusives that Iím not really into,I love what MS did with the X and if I didnít already have a pretty good PC setup Iíd probably get One.
SONY is killing it with there upcoming exclusives in 2018 maybe when I was younger and had more time on my hands Iíd be able to juggle 3 consoles but those days are long gone.
Congrats on MS for clearly having the most powerful console but for me my PS4 Pro is more than good enough.
thelastword
Junior Member
(11-12-2017, 06:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Space_nut

Significant improvements over pro :)

Xbox One X is a BEAST

DOUBLE the pixel res count!!
Matches closely to PC highest settings on a 1080ti!!
Better shading effects over pro

Wasn't this using fp16 ;)

I thought they would have made use of it on consoles, but sadly it's not there....I think it's mainly used on Vega Cards on the PC side....

Originally Posted by CassidyIzABeast

VGTech comment on the PS4Pro video says "The PS4 Pro version uses a dynamic resolution with the lowest pixel count found being 1280x1296"

Ok fair enough, they must have edited some new information the last time I checked the PRO stats, I just used DF's lowest pixel count on PRO...Also, wasn't aware that base PS4 falls below 1080p too, so some important information from Vgtech here all round...It just shows that these stats can change when dealing with Dynamic Rez, as you're not always privy to every aspect of the game or the most tasking parts of the game for a typical benchmark run. I guess that's why VGtech found a lower rez on XBONEX than DF because they covered a wider spread of gameplay.....

Dynamic Rez analysis is certainly more tricky in nailing stats, that's for sure. Yet, I'm not sure DF ever mentioned there was any scaling taking place on vanilla PS4 in their original Wolfenstein 2 video....Hey watching Thomas's analysis, he said that Pro was 1440p, Base PS4 was 1080p and XBOX One S was 810p....So now that we know that there's DR on every platform, it still baffles me that framerate is not locked at 60fps seeing that these framerates were just the highest possible rez ceiling....Moreover, looking at the XBONEX, I think the devs are trying to push rez too far, hence why it's not as consistent in the framerate department as the PRO...

Overall, I feel the Dynamic Rez in Wolfenstein is not that great, but then again, every time you fire a gun you get slowdown....If all these effects are GPU driven, I could then understand why the slowdown happens, especially trying to sustain all these GPU driven effects + a higher resolution on these consoles....
Liliana Eileen
Member
(11-12-2017, 06:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Memnoch

Worth every penny. I'm not using my Pro anymore since the X showed up. The Pro is off to the glue factory.

Originally Posted by solis74

Agree :)

Same here. What an incredible piece of tech!
forgedbygeeks
Junior Member
(11-12-2017, 06:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Space_nut

Things like Alexa, bigsbi, google, etc spawned off Kinect. Right now I use Alexa to play music, turn on tv, etc with my voice. All started with Kinect in 2010

I would like to see MS release a version of Cortana that looks like Amazon Dot Echo that connects to Xbox and everything in the house

It isn't as small, but they just released the Harmon Kardon Invoke which is powered by Cortana.
forgedbygeeks
Junior Member
(11-12-2017, 06:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lord Malachite

The Xbox One X is a beast of a console, I don't think anyone is questioning that. But for the majority of the market, the performance that the Xbox One S and vanilla PS4 offer are plenty good enough and cheap enough, and the PS4 Pro is a viable option for those that do want a higher end console--with significantly more exclusive content handily making up for it being not on par with the X in terms of horsepower. Time will tell if there is a market for a mid-gen upgrade of this magnitude or not.

The same argument could have been made for any console generation transition. Why buy the PS4 or X1 for $400 when you could get a 360 for $130. The 360 had a lot more games and the performance was good enough for most gamers....

Yet oddly, it turns out that gamers really do like having more powerful systems with better graphics.

What I am looking forward to finding out is how having a new system that also improves older games as much as the 1X does changes things. Not having to buy "Definitive Editions" or other re-released of games just to play them on the new system or to get better graphics is something that kept me playing on PC for a long time.
A.M_Light
Junior Member
(11-12-2017, 07:39 PM)

Originally Posted by forgedbygeeks

The same argument could have been made for any console generation transition. Why buy the PS4 or X1 for $400 when you could get a 360 for $130. The 360 had a lot more games and the performance was good enough for most gamers....

Yet oddly, it turns out that gamers really do like having more powerful systems with better graphics.

What I am looking forward to finding out is how having a new system that also improves older games as much as the 1X does changes things. Not having to buy "Definitive Editions" or other re-released of games just to play them on the new system or to get better graphics is something that kept me playing on PC for a long time.

This is not a valid comparsion the base systems get all the games you get on the pro systems minus the resolution and assets improvements which you need a 4k tv to take advantage of in the first place . The games are not generations apart most people will be happy with their base systems and 1080p screens. Base ps4 at 200$ this black Friday offers the best value same goes for the xbox S.
Lort
Junior Member
(11-12-2017, 08:41 PM)

Originally Posted by solis74

Agree :)

Also agree. Playing my old and new games with the ease of console with the graphics of a high end pc is what i wanted and it sure does that :)
BlitzerRadic
Member
(11-12-2017, 09:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by tryDEATH

Yes, the RAM is pretty expensive, but it sure isn't $100 more expensive. You take out the UHD player and MS would probably be selling the X1X at $450. Sony just didn't try and half-assed.

Well, if "half-assed" means what I think you're implying, then MS didn't try and half-assed 1x by including only a 1TB HDD, especially considering how much bigger 1x enhanced games are.

Or maybe both companies had a target price point and made compromises accordingly. *shrug*
solis74
Member
(11-12-2017, 09:47 PM)

Originally Posted by Liliana Eileen

Same here. What an incredible piece of tech!

indeed.
forgedbygeeks
Junior Member
(11-12-2017, 10:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by A.M_Light

This is not a valid comparsion the base systems get all the games you get on the pro systems minus the resolution and assets improvements which you need a 4k tv to take advantage of in the first place . The games are not generations apart most people will be happy with their base systems and 1080p screens. Base ps4 at 200$ this black Friday offers the best value same goes for the xbox S.

There are 2 fundamental problems with this argument.

1) The 1X is actually a generational leap in many ways, but there are several me diminishing returns happening.

For example, we saw just a 5.5x increase in GPU power from Xbox360 to XboxOne and are now seeing a 4.5x increase from X1 to 1X. By most standards, especially since this is just 4 years later instead of 8 years like last generation, this is a pretty big leap in raw power.

I know that personally, I see a big difference in my 1X over both my X1 and and PS4Pro (though to be fair I have less games on Pro to compare with).

2) New products don't have to have huge noticeable leaps in graphics to sell tens of millions of units at significantly higher prices to consumers.

Yes, gaming has felt different for decades with rare system releases, but that doesn't mean that products can't release faster and for significantly higher price points. If you look at other markets like those for laptops, tablets, and phones; all of them have yearly cycles with customers that regularly upgrade every 2-3 years. Consoles have been the exception to this rule.

The biggest drivers of the sales in these markets is extra performance, some new features, and sexier / more modern designs. The 1X checks all the boxes needed.

Now the question that remains is whether or not the console market is ready to adopt systems more frequently. The price difference of $200 to $500 doesn't really matter honestly. Just like in other markets, price conscious consumers will adopt at low end while the early adopters and hard core will hit the high end.
AmyS
Member
(11-12-2017, 10:46 PM)
Xbox One X is awesome (love my Scorpio Edition!) but in no way is it a generational leap, even from the original 2013 Xbox One.
shpankey
not an idiot
(11-12-2017, 10:59 PM)
Loving my 1x and couldnít be happier w/ the upgrade. I really feel this is the best designed console since PS2, even overtaking it tbh. Looks like it even. Very beautifully designed, engineered and thought out on every single aspect. If this is any indication of the future of Xbox, then it is very, very bright indeed and it wonít be long for them to win back the American gamer stronghold they once had.

The ONLY missed opportunity they had was on the HDD. Should have done 2TB w/ the SSD/HDD combo like they had in the Elite. With Sata III this would have had an enormous effect on speed/load times and overall snappiness. Not sure why they didnít do it as thatís something I feel all consoles need to do from now on and 2TB was needed for the patch sizes. Only mistake they made though and itís not something a hardcore gamer canít overcome on their own w/ an external drive. Which is prob why they chose not to.
onQ123
Junior Member
(11-12-2017, 11:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by AmyS

Xbox One X is awesome (love my Scorpio Edition!) but in no way is it a generational leap, even from the original 2013 Xbox One.

That's by design but the GPU upgrade from Xbox One to One X is pretty close to the jump from Xbox 360 to Xbox One. If a dev decided to detach Xbox One X from Xbox One they could make the game look like it's from a different generation than Xbox One.
Stealthcobra
Member
(11-13-2017, 12:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Leviticus

I was actually watching this comparison video on my 4k TV and have to say that we are now entering the realms of diminishing returns when comparing 2052p to 1440p content. This becomes apparent as we now need to use a zoom to spot the differences. We would not need a zoom to tell 1080p from 720p.

While Wolfenstein on the X looks superior when zoomed in, the difference is not as dramatic as the narrator suggests. But I'm happy for all Xowners, anything below 1080p is just not acceptable anymore.

I agree.. I barely can tell a difference...
The X really shines with xbox and xbox 360 games.
tryDEATH
Junior Member
(11-13-2017, 12:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by it_wasn't_me

You're clueless. Do some research how much UHD cost before spewing shit. Pushing higher clocks, pushing more FLOPS, pushing more bandwidth and also add a more RAM even if it is the "same" tech, all that cost more. Period.

This is a FACT. Again :

Sony aimed for 399, MS aimed for 499. That's a fact and 100$ and year later release are big difference and it can allow to put a more components with higher clocks, FLOPS etc. and some components become cheaper through time, even in a few months.

Do you know even know how OCing works and how they get higher clocks? The parts are same you basically just adjusting and pumping up voltage of a part to be able to perform higher Hertz at a stable state while maintaining its temperature. The only effect an OC would have cost wise on would be on a power supply as it would draw more power. According to IHS's breakdown of the Xbox One S the 2TB HD and UHD player were a combined cost of $88.50 considering the price take into consideration the bulk brice of the HDD and you will end up with the the UHD players costing close to $50 possibly even more as it is still a relatively new and expensive technology.

Also the whole 1 year later shill talk is nonsense the console was finished around April/May they just didn't release it strategically until the holiday season. Units were being manufacture considerably sooner then the 1 year difference you try and claim.

But you know what you keep doing you, stick those fingers in your ears and just keep on scream your excuses from the top of a mountain, because in your eyes Sony can't do wrong as there will always be one excuse after another. Reality is that just like Xbox One was weaker when it released compared to the PS4 with almost identical parts, MS winged it and offered an inferior product, just like the PS4P did last year. Only difference is I can see and call out the bullshit companies try with out blindly giving them my loyalty. I want a superior product because that is when consumers benefit from them not the other way around.

Have fun shilling your crap around the forum.


Originally Posted by BlitzerRadic

Well, if "half-assed" means what I think you're implying, then MS didn't try and half-assed 1x by including only a 1TB HDD, especially considering how much bigger 1x enhanced games are.

Or maybe both companies had a target price point and made compromises accordingly. *shrug*

That is 100% a half-assed, but at least with that you can personally increase it with an external drive if you wish to do so. I rather they compromise on something I can address my self down the line if I wish to do so then to be stuck with something for the duration of the system helplessly.
Golgo 13
Member
(11-13-2017, 12:30 AM)
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Played both versions for a significant amount of time. The X1 is definitely noticeably sharper, but the Pro version still looks pretty damn good. I fear for my eyes when I go back to playing a 1080p game at this point.
solis74
Member
(11-13-2017, 12:32 AM)

Originally Posted by shpankey

Loving my 1x and couldnít be happier w/ the upgrade. I really feel this is the best designed console since PS2, even overtaking it tbh. Looks like it even. Very beautifully designed, engineered and thought out on every single aspect. If this is any indication of the future of Xbox, then it is very, very bright indeed and it wonít be long for them to win back the American gamer stronghold they once had.

The ONLY missed opportunity they had was on the HDD. Should have done 2TB w/ the SSD/HDD combo like they had in the Elite. With Sata III this would have had an enormous effect on speed/load times and overall snappiness. Not sure why they didnít do it as thatís something I feel all consoles need to do from now on and 2TB was needed for the patch sizes. Only mistake they made though and itís not something a hardcore gamer canít overcome on their own w/ an external drive. Which is prob why they chose not to.

agree, but would have been even more money.
Gaenor
Member
(11-13-2017, 12:54 AM)
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First time I logged into this place in quite a while and holy shit !! How has Neogaf fallen. Warriors are all over the place and they donít even try to hide a bit anymore.
TheFarter
Junior Member
(11-13-2017, 12:56 AM)

Originally Posted by AmyS

Xbox One X is awesome (love my Scorpio Edition!) but in no way is it a generational leap, even from the original 2013 Xbox One.

It's for sure a leap from my Xbox Day One Edition. I'll agree to disagree.
it_wasn't_me
Junior Member
(11-13-2017, 01:22 AM)

Originally Posted by tryDEATH

Do you know even know how OCing works and how they get higher clocks? The parts are same you basically just adjusting and pumping up voltage of a part to be able to perform higher Hertz at a stable state while maintaining its temperature. The only effect an OC would have cost wise on would be on a power supply as it would draw more power. According to IHS's breakdown of the Xbox One S the 2TB HD and UHD player were a combined cost of $88.50 considering the price take into consideration the bulk brice of the HDD and you will end up with the the UHD players costing close to $50 possibly even more as it is still a relatively new and expensive technology.

Also the whole 1 year later shill talk is nonsense the console was finished around April/May they just didn't release it strategically until the holiday season. Units were being manufacture considerably sooner then the 1 year difference you try and claim.

But you know what you keep doing you, stick those fingers in your ears and just keep on scream your excuses from the top of a mountain, because in your eyes Sony can't do wrong as there will always be one excuse after another. Reality is that just like Xbox One was weaker when it released compared to the PS4 with almost identical parts, MS winged it and offered an inferior product, just like the PS4P did last year. Only difference is I can see and call out the bullshit companies try with out blindly giving them my loyalty. I want a superior product because that is when consumers benefit from them not the other way around.

Well, at least i proved that you're dumb!

The new console also includes a UHD BD-ROM player, with a bill of materials (BOM) cost of $33.50, versus the previous $18 conventional Blu-Ray drive.

50$, 80$, 90$....? You mentioned IHS. So, WTF did you read? No, it's barely over 30$, not 50$. So, basically 70$ remained for adding more memory, flops, higher clocks and so on for a year later release.

http://news.ihsmarkit.com/press-rele...t-value?page=1

Again :

Sony aimed for 399, MS aimed for 499. That's a fact and 100$ and year later release are big difference and it can allow to put a more components with higher clocks, FLOPS etc. and some components become cheaper through time, even in a few months.

If Pro was finished in April/May last year, then XboneX is finished this year in April/May too. Oh, look, a one year difference.
Reality is MS release weaker Xbone because ESRAM ate a huge chunk of APU and GPU need to be smaller ( weaker ) than PS4's GPU. And ESRAM is a damn expensive memory. Again, you really have no clue what you're talking about.
NoMoChokeSJ
Member
(11-13-2017, 01:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gaenor

First time I logged into this place in quite a while and holy shit !! How has Neogaf fallen. Warriors are all over the place and they donít even try to hide a bit anymore.

Naw... Warriors were already here, there was just more denial about it. Plus a lot of more one sided moderation, IMO.
tryDEATH
Junior Member
(11-13-2017, 01:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by it_wasn't_me

Well, at least i proved that you're dumb!



50$, 80$, 90$....? You mentioned IHS. So, WTF did you read? No, it's barely over 30$, not 50$. So, basically 70$ remained for adding more memory, flops, higher clocks and so on for a year later release.

http://news.ihsmarkit.com/press-rele...t-value?page=1

Again :

Sony aimed for 399, MS aimed for 499. That's a fact and 100$ and year later release are big difference and it can allow to put a more components with higher clocks, FLOPS etc. and some components become cheaper through time, even in a few months.

If Pro was finished in April/May last year, then XboneX is finished this year in April/May too. Oh, look, a one year difference.
Reality is MS release weaker Xbone because ESRAM ate a huge chunk of APU and GPU need to be smaller ( weaker ) than PS4's GPU. And ESRAM is a damn expensive memory. Again, you really have no clue what you're talking about.

There is a difference between dumb and being slightly misinformed. My point still stands that the difference of $100 between the systems still has to do with a good chunk due to the UHD player almost 33%. And As I mentioned earlier had they removed it they could have launched it at $450.

I admitted the Xbox One had made some bad decision when it came to engineering the system. Just like the PS4P did that is why it is weaker and they released an inferior product. I just learned how to bold my statement too and i will just start repeating it until it becomes true.
thelastword
Junior Member
(11-13-2017, 02:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by forgedbygeeks

There are 2 fundamental problems with this argument.

1) The 1X is actually a generational leap in many ways, but there are several me diminishing returns happening.

For example, we saw just a 5.5x increase in GPU power from Xbox360 to XboxOne and are now seeing a 4.5x increase from X1 to 1X. By most standards, especially since this is just 4 years later instead of 8 years like last generation, this is a pretty big leap in raw power.

The Xbonex is not a generational leap in any way or form, neither is the PRO for that matter. You have to remember the XBOX one was just a weak piece of kit, had it not been for MS ditching kinect and releasing more hardware resources to devcelopers, can you imagine what the 2013 version of the XBOX ONE would be running games right now? I mean Wolfenstein 2 is running at 810p in 2017 on the souped up XBOX ONE....


What you have to recognize is that there were other pieces of hardware on the market that were stronger than XBOX ONE and delivered on games at the rez (1080p), of most TV owners in 2013?

A generational leap cannot imply only a rez boost....Assets and materials, Ai, player count, Draw Distance, LOD, framerate and gameplay all need to assume a major upgrade...On top of image quality and the like....


You look at games like battlefield, it went full 64 players from the prior console numbers with a pretty great graphical leap in 2013, lots improved along with that vs something like battlefield 3 on PS3/360. Killzone 2-3 to shadowfall was massive in terms of technology...All we're seeing with the mid gen refreshes is a bump to rez for the most part, but nothing massive in terms of perf against the vanilla consoles. In essence, we don't have a CPU that will make us play all 30fps PS4 and XBOX ONE games at 60fps with a total overhaul on graphics at 4k rez and 8xMSAA, 16xAF with better A.I and simulations.......That we will have to wait for next generation.


XBOX ONE owners to XBONEX are the biggest recipients and draw for XBONEX, I always called it, yet, it's still not a generational leap from vanilla XBOX ONE. I mean, Halo 5 looks razor on a 4k screen, but we still have the halfrate animations of the XBOX ONE version, the gameplay is still the same and yet you still have IQ issues like heavy aliasing/shimmering at 4k, I imagine a generational leap would do much more...... Yes, the graphical assets shine much better at 4k, much more detail is resolved , better AF is great....but If our idea of a generational leap is based on these patches, then perhaps PC players were right in tooting their horns about their version of games all this time...At least they have the option of forcing 16xAF in every title, even at 4k and adding loads of AA in the graphics panel...supersampling even.....I think we should wait for XBOX TWO and PS5 to really blow this current gen out of the water..As for me, I'm into the mid gen refreshes, because I have a 4k screen, and I'd be damned If I'm still playing these games at 1080p and below if the framerate targets are still bottomed out by the CPU's....
forgedbygeeks
Junior Member
(11-13-2017, 05:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by thelastword

The Xbonex is not a generational leap in any way or form, neither is the PRO for that matter. You have to remember the XBOX one was just a weak piece of kit, had it not been for MS ditching kinect and releasesing more hardware resources to devcelopers, can you imagine what the 2013 version of the XBOX ONE would be running games right now? I mean Wolfenstein 2 is running at 810p in 2017 on the souped up XBOX ONE....


What you have to recognize is that were other pieces of hardware on the market that were stronger than XBOX ONE and delivered on games at the rez (1080p), of most TV owners in 2013?

A generational leap cannot imply only a rez boost....Assets and materials, Ai, player count, Draw Distance, LOD, framerate and gameplay all need to assume a major upgrade...On top of image quality and the like....


You look at games like battlefield, it went full 64 players from the prior console numbers with pretty great graphical leap in 2013, lots improved along with that vs someting like battlefield 3 on PS3/360. Killzone 2-3 to shadowfall was massive in terms of technology...All we're seeing with the mid gen refreshes is a bump to rez for the most part, but nothing massive in terms of perf against the vanilla consoles. In essence, we don't have a CPU that will make us play all 30fps PS4 and XBOX ONE games at 60fps with a total overhaul on graphics at 4k rez and 8xMSAA, 16xAF with better A.I and simulations.......That we will have to wait for next generation.


XBOX ONE owners to XBONEX are the biggest recipients and draw for XBONEX, I always called it, yet, it's still not a generational leap from vanilla XBOX ONE. I mean, Halo 5 looks razor on a 4k screen, but we still have the halfrate animations of the XBOX ONE version, the gameplay is still the same and yet you still have IQ issues like heavy aliasing/shimmering at 4k, I imagine a generational leap would do much more. Yes, the graphical assets shine much better at 4k, much more detail is resolved , better AF is great....but If our idea of a generational leap is based on these patches, then perhaps PC players were right in tooting their horns about their version of games all this time...At least they have the option of forcing 16xAF in every title, even at 4k and adding loads of AA in the graphics panel...supersampling even.....I think we should wait for XBOX TWO and PS5 to really blow this current gen out of the water..As for me, I'm into the mid gen refreshes, because I have a 4k screen, and I'd be damned If I'm still playing these games at 1080p and below if the framerate targets are still bottomed out by the CPU's....

I remember when the 360 first released and everyone claimed DOA3 looked barely any better than original Xbox games. Or the endless screens hots of the ugly grass in Oblivion. Or the 2D trees in all the racing games.

Then a year later Gears of War released.

The point is that it takes a while for developing to get a handle on new systems and take advantage of them. This is getting even harder as the systems get more and more powerful as well.

Right now, games released within the past year are getting resolution bumps and some quick texture bumps, but within the next 1-2 years we will really start to see what the deck can do with the system.

The same is already obvious with the Pro. At launch, most games were simple resolution bumps that frequently hurt framerate. But, within a year, there are now games like Horizon that do a great job of using the new power and this is even without any extra RAM like the 1X has.

Also, you are lying. You obviously haven't played Halo5 on 1X. Claiming it has lots of juggles and shimmering at 4k.... Hahaha haha haha. No.

At least it appears you accepted the argument that $500 will sell well even with $200 systems available.
Night.Ninja
One really creepy thing I do is just repeatedly shit on GAF while sarcastically calling it a "top tier gaming forum" so feel free to report me if I keep doing this.
(11-13-2017, 06:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gaenor

First time I logged into this place in quite a while and holy shit !! How has Neogaf fallen. Warriors are all over the place and they donít even try to hide a bit anymore.

When did they ever try to hide it 🤔

DF threads were always like this on neogaf and it's the same on the new forum. Warriors will be warriors
it_wasn't_me
Junior Member
(11-13-2017, 06:37 AM)

Originally Posted by tryDEATH

Just like the PS4P did that is why it is weaker and they released an inferior product. I just learned how to bold my statement too and i will just start repeating it until it becomes true.

Of course Pro is inferior cuz it came out a year earlier an cost 399. Sony aimed for 399.

Neither of your points stands. UHD is just a small portion. I gave you links, you said it wrong. UHD is 50$! In the end it is barely over 30$

Yes, 70$ remained for more, as i said, FLOPS, Bandwidth...etc.

Let's see for example this one :

Nvidia 1070 is 6.5 TFLOPS for 379 MSRP, Nvidia 1070ti is 8.5 TFLOPS for 70$ more and it came out a year later. 70$ more really do wonders a year later.
MaulerX
Member
(11-13-2017, 08:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by it_wasn't_me

Of course Pro is inferior cuz it came out a year earlier an cost 399. Sony aimed for 399.

Neither of your points stands. UHD is just a small portion. I gave you links, you said it wrong. UHD is 50$! In the end it is barely over 30$

Yes, 70$ remained for more, as i said, FLOPS, Bandwidth...etc.

Let's see for example this one :

Nvidia 1070 is 6.5 TFLOPS for 379 MSRP, Nvidia 1070ti is 8.5 TFLOPS for 70$ more and it came out a year later. 70$ more really do wonders a year later.




When you analyze what you get for the extra $100, the argument can be made that what you're getting is a bargain. 4K UHD Blu-ray drive, upgrades to CPU, GPU, RAM and Bandwidth are all nothing to sneeze at. But while you can attribute all that to it being released a year later, there is something you can't and are leaving out of the equation: Quality Craftsmanship.

They could have released all that at the size of the OG Xbox One and nobody would have complained much given its power. But give credit where credit is due. What their engineers accomplished with cramming all that power into a relative sleek tiny box with it's sophisticated cooling solution and being pretty damn quiet to boot is nothing short of a marvel. Make no mistake the X is a premium box and I very much doubt Sony would have gone through the great lengths that Microsoft did in this department even if they had released simultaneously.
BlitzerRadic
Member
(11-13-2017, 08:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by tryDEATH

That is 100% a half-assed, but at least with that you can personally increase it with an external drive if you wish to do so. I rather they compromise on something I can address my self down the line if I wish to do so

like buying a standalone UHD player

then to be stuck with something for the duration of the system
helplessly

You mean like a UHD BD player that most people will never use?
Liliana Eileen
Member
(11-13-2017, 08:52 AM)
Liliana Eileen's Avatar

Originally Posted by forgedbygeeks

Also, you are lying. You obviously haven't played Halo5 on 1X. Claiming it has lots of juggles and shimmering at 4k.... Hahaha haha haha. No.

Dude, it's thelastword you're quoting. He has never owned an Xbox console in his life and his whole shtick is to shill as hard as possible in behalf of Papa Sony while downplaying anything Xbox related.
Kittehkraken
Member
(11-13-2017, 09:16 AM)

Originally Posted by sunofsam

Yup, if not interested in the best version of multiplats (which you "likely" were 3 years ago like the rest of the salty dogs in here) then yeah, the X is not for you!

I keep seeing this floating around. PC has the best versions of multiplats, not the One X.

A high end CPU with a 1080ti (if not two) might cost you a small country, but its unrivaled in terms of performance. If you want the BEST, the One X shouldn't be for you.
BlitzerRadic
Member
(11-13-2017, 09:21 AM)
BlitzerRadic's Avatar

Originally Posted by tryDEATH

Do you know even know how OCing works and how they get higher clocks? The parts are same you basically just adjusting and pumping up voltage of a part to be able to perform higher Hertz at a stable state while maintaining its temperature. The only effect an OC would have cost wise on would be on a power supply as it would draw more power.

Also, stop saying the 1x apu is an overclocked part. These are highly optimized (binned) dies.
thelastword
Junior Member
(11-13-2017, 01:20 PM)
thelastword's Avatar

Originally Posted by forgedbygeeks

I remember when the 360 first released and everyone claimed DOA3 looked barely any better than original Xbox games. Or the endless screens hots of the ugly grass in Oblivion. Or the 2D trees in all the racing games.

You mean DOA4? Not 3...Played the hell out of DOA3 on OG XBOX, I still have that game amongst others mind you......

As for those comparisons, people believed that the character models were not the huge uplift they expected for a new gen, Itagaki claimed he wanted to maintian "a special look for the girls", so people complained that they looked like dolls and were not shooting for realism with the better hardware.....I also think that DOA3's environments were already pretty amazing, loved the colors, the textures etc...(forest, snow stage, japanese garden, wasn't there a stage where they threw you down a flight of stairs? these were my favourites)...So DOA4's stages had more effects, but it was not transformational per se, but it was a much prettier game in terms of IQ, DOA4 was one of the cleanest looking games (AA) at the 360 launch/window and I always liked how it looked. Tbh, I prefer how the environments look in DOA3/4 over 5, the models are better in 5, effects are better, but don't like the subdued colors and some of the weak textures.....This is the area where Itagaki really nailed it IMO, colors and textures, same can be said of his NG games as opposed to Razors'd edge. Environments looked a bit more organic in his titles.....

Originally Posted by forgedbygeeks


Then a year later Gears of War released.

The point is that it takes a while for developing to get a handle on new systems and take advantage of them. This is getting even harder as the systems get more and more powerful as well.

Right now, games released within the past year are getting resolution bumps and some quick texture bumps, but within the next 1-2 years we will really start to see what the deck can do with the system.

The same is already obvious with the Pro. At launch, most games were simple resolution bumps that frequently hurt framerate. But, within a year, there are now games like Horizon that do a great job of using the new power and this is even without any extra RAM like the 1X has.

What you fail to realize is that this is not a new console in the traditional sense...Which games do you think are going to be developed ground up for the XBONEX in the future? The base consoles are the top priority and have the market domination, it's what development targets atm. Even HZD, as great as it looks is not a ground up PRO game, the vanilla PS4 version looks awesome too, so the extra power of the PRO was utilized to boost IQ for the most part...Also, GG are just tech wizards, but it's not like the vanilla version looks like a different gamne tahn the PRO version..GG made a great looking/performing game on Base PS4...is all...

So yes, I don't think we will see special games made for the PRO or XBONEX as such, ground up games that is.....Don't get me wrong, we will have some amazing PRO and XBONEX versions over base PS4/XB1, but it wont be generational and the installbase of these consoles prevents that. Perhaps, if PRO and XBONEX sells half or on par with vanilla consoles that will be a reality, but we all know that's not happeneing. You said in two years you expect great things? but in two years what installbase do you expect for these consoles?....and in two tears the new consoles will already be upon us in some way or form...

I think the biggest opportunity for the mid-gen refreshes would be if they implmented a better CPU, that would have improved current gen console experiences to a much higher degree...

Originally Posted by forgedbygeeks

Also, you are lying. You obviously haven't played Halo5 on 1X. Claiming it has lots of juggles and shimmering at 4k.... Hahaha haha haha. No.

At least it appears you accepted the argument that $500 will sell well even with $200 systems available.

Don't be that guy, there are jaggies in Halo 5 on XBONEX, I dont like shimmering tbh, so it' something I see right away.....You think because it's rendering at 4k, it has no jaggies? Just look at the DF video at 4k and tell me there's no shimmering/jaggies.....It's not a knock on the XBONEX version, I just want jaggies gone in my titles. The pristine 4k on XBONEX is a massive leap from XBOX ONE, but there are still areas where it could improve or it could have been better, and I guess that's what we decipher in tech threads....

It's the same thing with Fifa 2017, I hate the shimmering you see at times on PRO, yes at 4k, that's why I'm a big proponent of TAA at high resolutions to clean these up....Also, people said the same thing about Forza 7 and how clean it was, but on PC at 4k with 4xMSAA, you don't have anything close to a jaggie free game or shimmering free game in that title.....and yes, there are jaggies in the XBONEX version just the same, even more-so as opposed to the PC version. These are just areas, where the devs can perhaps pay attention for future patches...
mad597
Member
(11-13-2017, 02:15 PM)

Originally Posted by thelastword

You mean DOA4? Not 3...Played the hell out of DOA3 on OG XBOX, I still have that game amongst others mind you......

As for those comparisons, people believed that the character models were not the huge uplift they expected for a new gen, Itagaki claimed he wanted to maintian "a special look for the girls", so people complained that they looked like dolls and were not shooting for realism with the better hardware.....I also think that DOA3's environments were already pretty amazing, loved the colors, the textures etc...(forest, snow stage, japanese garden, wasn't there a stage where they threw you down a flight of stairs? these were my favourites)...So DOA4's stages had more effects, but it was not transformational per se, but it was a much prettier game in terms of IQ, DOA4 was one of the cleanest looking games (AA) at the 360 launch/window and I always liked how it looked. Tbh, I prefer how the environments look in DOA3/4 over 5, the models are better in 5, effects are better, but don't like the subdued colors and some of the weak textures.....This is the area where Itagaki really nailed it IMO, colors and textures, same can be said of his NG games as opposed to Razors'd edge. Environments looked a bit more organic in his titles.....


What you fail to realize is that this is not a new console in the traditional sense...Which games do you think are going to be developed ground up for the XBONEX in the future? The base consoles are the top priority and have the market domination, it's what development targets atm. Even HZD, as great as it looks is not a ground up PRO game, the vanilla PS4 version looks awesome too, so the extra power of the PRO was utilized to boost IQ for the most part...Also, GG are just tech wizards, but it's not like the vanilla version looks like a different gamne tahn the PRO version..GG made a great looking/performing game on Base PS4...is all...

So yes, I don't think we will see special games made for the PRO or XBONEX as such, ground up games that is.....Don't get me wrong, we will have some amazing PRO and XBONEX versions over base PS4/XB1, but it wont be generational and the installbase of these consoles prevents that. Perhaps, if PRO and XBONEX sells half or on par with vanilla consoles that will be a reality, but we all know that's not happeneing. You said in two years you expect great things? but in two years what installbase do you expect for these consoles?....and in two tears the new consoles will already be upon us in some way or form...

I think the biggest opportunity for the mid-gen refreshes would be if they implmented a better CPU, that would have improved current gen console experiences to a much higher degree...

Don't be that guy, there are jaggies in Halo 5 on XBONEX, I dont like shimmering tbh, so it' something I see right away.....You think because it's rendering at 4k, it has no jaggies? Just look at the DF video at 4k and tell me there's no shimmering/jaggies.....It's not a knock on the XBONEX version, I just want jaggies gone in my titles. The pristine 4k on XBONEX is a massive leap from XBOX ONE, but there are still areas where it could improve or it could have been better, and I guess that's what we decipher in tech threads....

It's the same thing with Fifa 2017, I hate the shimmering you see at times on PRO, yes at 4k, that's why I'm a big proponent of TAA at high resolutions to clean these up....Also, people said the same thing about Forza 7 and how clean it was, but on PC at 4k with 4xMSAA, you don't have anything close to a jaggie free game or shimmering free game in that title.....and yes, there are jaggies in the XBONEX version just the same, even more-so as opposed to the PC version. These are just areas, where the devs can perhaps pay attention for future patches...

Holy shit I could literally write a browser plugin that replaced all your posts with

Sony = good
MS = bad

And it wouldn't change the content of any of your posts. Writing fucking novels for years here just to cape for Sony, hope they are paying you well.
mad597
Member
(11-13-2017, 02:17 PM)

Originally Posted by Liliana Eileen

Dude, it's thelastword you're quoting. He has never owned an Xbox console in his life and his whole shtick is to shill as hard as possible in behalf of Papa Sony while downplaying anything Xbox related.

Yea even people outside this forum know he is a sonygaf shill. I hope he is getting paid cause if he's not that's even more pathetic.
solis74
Member
(11-13-2017, 02:17 PM)

Originally Posted by TheFarter

It's for sure a leap from my Xbox Day One Edition. I'll agree to disagree.

its an awesome bit of kit!
AbandonedTrolley
Member
(11-13-2017, 02:33 PM)
AbandonedTrolley's Avatar

Originally Posted by DESTROYA

While I love the extra performance of the One X , I canít justify paying $500 just to play better multiplats and exclusives that Iím not really into,I love what MS did with the X and if I didnít already have a pretty good PC setup Iíd probably get One.
SONY is killing it with there upcoming exclusives in 2018 maybe when I was younger and had more time on my hands Iíd be able to juggle 3 consoles but those days are long gone.
Congrats on MS for clearly having the most powerful console but for me my PS4 Pro is more than good enough.

Pretty much this, the X is clearly a great machine, but my eyes are firmly on exclusives for the Sony machine and with a PS4 Pro already I see no need to get this for slightly better games.
GTR R35_Supra RZ
Member
(11-13-2017, 02:52 PM)
GTR R35_Supra RZ's Avatar

Originally Posted by Memnoch

Worth every penny. I'm not using my Pro anymore since the X showed up. The Pro is off to the glue factory.


Say no more. It's a wrap for PRO, it will not get any use except for maybe occasional exclusive I might like. Traded in all Sony multi-plat gms for X enhanced copys like RE7, Mafia, AC:O and the list goes on.

GOW 4 looks fn stunning BTW so is Hitman..so freaking breathtaking and clean looking on 4k+HDR..

LEGIT, X worth every goddamn penny.
tryDEATH
Junior Member
(11-13-2017, 04:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by BlitzerRadic

like buying a standalone UHD player



You mean like a UHD BD player that most people will never use?

Price difference between extra storage and a stand alone UDH player I would say are significant.

But hey, you just keep on doing you just don't let all that fanboy-ism leak out too fast.
it_wasn't_me
Junior Member
(11-13-2017, 08:01 PM)

Originally Posted by tryDEATH

Price difference between extra storage and a stand alone UDH player I would say are significant.

But hey, you just keep on doing you just don't let all that fanboy-ism leak out too fast.

You calling other people a fanboy. Explain to us what are you then.

Originally Posted by MaulerX

Make no mistake the X is a premium box and I very much doubt Sony would have gone through the great lengths that Microsoft did in this department even if they had released simultaneously.

Sony released PS4 at the same time as Xbone ( week earlier precisely ) and it was smaller and more powerful with power supply built in. Yes, you should doubt.
Journey
Member
(11-13-2017, 08:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by it_wasn't_me


Sony released PS4 at the same time as Xbone ( week earlier precisely ) and it was smaller and more powerful with power supply built in. Yes, you should doubt.


To be fair, MS released Xbox 360 a FULL year before PS3, was $100 cheaper and had a better GPU that pretty much ended up outperforming PS3 in most of the multi-platform comparisons. That's a much bigger feat than same year, same price, more power example. Just pointing out that both companies are very capable of producing to notch hardware. Especially now that MS has the surface team, whereas some time ago, Sony had an edge, but not the playing field is pretty level, if not MS producing better products when you consider the engineering inside Xbox One X.
ShapeGSX
Member
(11-13-2017, 08:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by it_wasn't_me

Sony released PS4 at the same time as Xbone ( week earlier precisely ) and it was smaller and more powerful with power supply built in. Yes, you should doubt.

Microsoft put a lot of work into backwards compatibility for the Xbox One and Xbox One X that Sony hasn't. They even put hooks into the hardware to support it.

A lot of the amazing stuff that Microsoft has done with the Xbox One X is also in the software.
Nategc20
Banned
(11-13-2017, 08:51 PM)
Damn
tryDEATH
Junior Member
(11-13-2017, 08:51 PM)
tryDEATH's Avatar

Originally Posted by it_wasn't_me

You calling other people a fanboy. Explain to us what are you then.



Sony released PS4 at the same time as Xbone ( week earlier precisely ) and it was smaller and more powerful with power supply built in. Yes, you should doubt.

I am not a fanboy, I repeatedly shited on the Xbox One in our exchange and even called them out on the shifty 1TB HD in the X1X. No where I am making outlandish claims, or throwing petty shots. Our whole discussion started on the basis that the PS4P in my opinion was a mistake and a year after it released it lost it relevance, due to a lackluster strategy and execution and in the future will be seen as bad move by Sony as it lost it footing as viable product in the market relatively quickly. For the additional cost of the X1X of $100/20%($67 w/ UHD/16.5%) more in many games your getting gains of at least 40% and even more in other games. The X1X's strategy and execution has simply been better and offer more buck for you dollar.

I am for video games and always will be I had a Playstation 1 in 97' in Germany and some of my fondest memories in video games are on the PS. What I don't understand is the undying loyalty many give to companies blindly and then refuse to acknowledge any possible wrong doings they make. I never said the PS4P was shit, I just believe it was badly executed.
Nategc20
Banned
(11-13-2017, 08:53 PM)

Originally Posted by AbandonedTrolley

Pretty much this, the X is clearly a great machine, but my eyes are firmly on exclusives for the Sony machine and with a PS4 Pro already I see no need to get this for slightly better games.

Slightly better games? Tomb raider, hitman, and several titles are light years better on the X.
Malcolm9
Member
(11-13-2017, 08:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nategc20

Slightly better games? Tomb raider, hitman, and several titles are light years better on the X.

Better yes, light years no.
MaulerX
Member
(11-13-2017, 09:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by it_wasn't_me



Sony released PS4 at the same time as Xbone ( week earlier precisely ) and it was smaller and more powerful with power supply built in. Yes, you should doubt.



MS clearly overcompensated with fears of having a repeat Red rings of death fiasco. And guess what, that bigger box was and still is a million times more silent than the PS4. You should doubt too.
shinnn
Member
(11-13-2017, 09:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by ShapeGSX

Microsoft put a lot of work into backwards compatibility for the Xbox One and Xbox One X that Sony hasn't. They even put hooks into the hardware to support it.

A lot of the amazing stuff that Microsoft has done with the Xbox One X is also in the software.

In the X360 too. MS has been strong about BC since the beginning.
Hendrick's
Member
(11-13-2017, 09:02 PM)
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If this is the biggest difference yet...well I guess it's still early.
f@luS
More than a member.
(11-13-2017, 09:02 PM)

Originally Posted by Nategc20

Slightly better games? Tomb raider, hitman, and several titles are light years better on the X.

I love my X and I double dipped on many games I had on PS4 pro but didnít have time to play.
Diminishing return seriously. At some point I hardly see difference between 1400-1600p and 4K. I mean there are some obviously but if you have money go ahead and own both. If ure stuck with the pro youíre nowhere far from the X. I want the best so I have both but still pro is a great machine. X is fantastic though

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