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HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(12-07-2017, 03:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Woo-Fu

No, you pour gasoline on it and toss a match. If you leave the hornets' nest there somebody is going to get stung sooner or later regardless of how far you go out of your way to not piss off the hornets. They start pissed off.

Or you don't poke the hornets nest in the first place especially when everyone that is standing right next to and around the nest telling you not to because they will get stung.
CampbellzSoup
Member
(12-07-2017, 04:02 AM)
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You get rid of the hornets nest...why are we appeasing it?
<+)O Robido O(+>
(12-07-2017, 04:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by CampbellzSoup

You get rid of the hornets nest...why are we appeasing it?

So... genocide then?
Ubername
Member
(12-07-2017, 04:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by CampbellzSoup

Someone needed to do this....

Yeah what page are we on with this? Do some people call it Palestine? Like wtf. What culture did you grow up with to think the capital of Israel is Palestine
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-07-2017, 04:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dunki

That is also what he has promised. And Trump also has a very strong connection Jewish people not only because of his Jewish family members. Again Prob terrible Time and political decision but on a human and morrally standpoint it is understandable IMO.

Yeah, this decision shouldn't surprise anyone. And more than anything, people talking about a violent response as some kind of undesired side effect instead of his intent in doing this have a naive world view. He's expecting a violent response and that's partly why he did it.
Martinski43
Member
(12-07-2017, 04:52 AM)
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Watched the speech by the_donald and does he usually slur this much? Also seemed out of breath during the speech.

Seems not to be in great health.
Lynn616
Member
(12-07-2017, 05:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Damerman

That plus all the other bullshit he is trying to pass off as diplomacy.

If you think todayís decision isnít a catalyst for trouble in the future, you havenít been paying attention to history and arguably know next to nothing about the situation.

If Trump saying that he agrees with Israel on the capitol causes some idiots to commit violence then they are the problem not Trump.
Xisiqomelir
Member
(12-07-2017, 05:39 AM)
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Good to see the Executive branch finally administer the will of the American people expressed in PUBLIC LAW 104Ė45. It's been more than 20 years of dodging by Presidents from both parties till now.
Usobuko
Banned
(12-07-2017, 05:43 AM)

Originally Posted by Lynn616

If Trump saying that he agrees with Israel on the capitol causes some idiots to commit violence then they are the problem not Trump.

What's the problem with violence then?

Killing other life forms for the betterment of oneself has been the nature of life since the very beginning.

What makes you and your family lives so special compare to the ant I just crushed for fun?
BuddyTheBestPuppy
Member
(12-07-2017, 11:53 AM)
He just does this for attention and to deviate from other issues. Anyone else see the pattern here

The FBI stuff regarding Mike was gaining traction so he did this.

Man is dangerous
Dunki
Member
(12-07-2017, 12:03 PM)

Originally Posted by BuddyTheBestPuppy

He just does this for attention and to deviate from other issues. Anyone else see the pattern here

The FBI stuff regarding Mike was gaining traction so he did this.

Man is dangerous

While this could be one of the reasons for this. I do not think it is the main reason. As I said before Trump cares about Jewish people and presidents before him also wanted to do this. This is also not something you do for the heck of it. This needs serious plannings as well. People try to think that he does this just because he is Trump. If this is the first big thing he promised to do in his election that does not seem like a reaction.
bad guy
Member
(12-07-2017, 12:11 PM)
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I think it's a bad idea. On the other hand how often do politicians keep their promises? It's what the people voted for.
HighResTomato
Member
(12-07-2017, 12:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dunki

Honestly I think it is the right decision however it is not a decision for peace.



Of course it is because Muslims hate jewish people. But should this be our argument for such a decision? So that Muslims can be at ease?

Oh itís because the hate Jewish people. Not because theyíve been subject to sub human living conditions and driven from their homes by an extremist regime.

Thatís cool because God promised them.
gunslikewhoa
Member
(12-07-2017, 12:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by BuddyTheBestPuppy

He just does this for attention and to deviate from other issues. Anyone else see the pattern here

The FBI stuff regarding Mike was gaining traction so he did this.

Man is dangerous

Laughably ridiculous.
Ashes
Member
(12-07-2017, 12:51 PM)
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Only the ignorant will be for this.
#keepfuckingup
DoctorEkkoUK
Member
(12-07-2017, 01:23 PM)

Originally Posted by LordOfChaos

This is the red line for a lot of Muslims. If this goes through, there will be violence, guaranteed.

Why do you assume Muslims will react with violence? Islam is a peaceful religion and teaches not to react with violence.
Damerman
Member
(12-07-2017, 01:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lynn616

If Trump saying that he agrees with Israel on the capitol causes some idiots to commit violence then they are the problem not Trump.

So annexing peoples lands and subjugating them to inhumane living conditions as second class citizens for over half a century would never cause you to revolt in violence?

I bet you are white... and its because you are white that u are not able to empathize with the palistinians as much as you can with the jews.
Dunki
Member
(12-07-2017, 01:58 PM)

Originally Posted by Damerman

So annexing peoples lands and subjugating them to inhumane living conditions as second class citizens for over half a century would never cause you to revolt in violence?

I bet you are white... and its because you are white that u are not able to empathize with the palistinians as much as you can with the jews.

You forgot that also Obama wanted to do this. In the last 20 years every US President wanted to do this. And there are also people who see this as a chance for peace. It all depends now how the violent fractions of Muslims will react to this. Do you really believe that except the radical site muslims would care eitherway?
Dude Abides
Member
(12-07-2017, 02:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dunki

You forgot that also Obama wanted to do this. In the last 20 years every US President wanted to do this. And there are also people who see this as a chance for peace. It all depends now how the violent fractions of Muslims will react to this. Do you really believe that except the radical site muslims would care eitherway?

Youd have to be a real idiot to see this as a chance for peace. Unless the notion is to provoke palestinian violence and use that as a reason to kill all of them.
Mohonky
Junior Member
(12-07-2017, 02:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by DoctorEkkoUK

Why do you assume Muslims will react with violence? Islam is a peaceful religion and teaches not to react with violence.

You're being facetious.

Anyway, I have never understood the Jewish 'right' to Isreal. Countries and borders have changed over time, all conquering civilizations have displaced or absorbed entire ethnic groups and societies....yet we always end up on this 'but God gave Isreal and Judea to the Jews.'

I have no idea how this became a thing that a 3000yr old text is somehow relevant to geopolitics in the 21st century. There are indigenous people that exhausted for over 50 thousand years that were displaced in the past 400yrs that would get laughed at for even trying to argue for country back, but for some reason Isreal is the only country I can think of where they actively displaced an ethnic group in the past century on the notion that that land belonged to them thousands of years ago.

The whole thing is utterly baffling to me.
MisterFalcon
Member
(12-07-2017, 02:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mohonky

You're being facetious.

Anyway, I have never understood the Jewish 'right' to Isreal. Countries and borders have changed over time, all conquering civilizations have displaced or absorbed entire ethnic groups and societies....yet we always end up on this 'but God gave Isreal and Judea to the Jews.'

I have no idea how this became a thing that a 3000yr old text is somehow relevant to geopolitics in the 21st century. There are indigenous people that exhausted for over 50 thousand years that were displaced in the past 400yrs that would get laughed at for even trying to argue for country back, but for some reason Isreal is the only country I can think of where they actively displaced an ethnic group in the past century on the notion that that land belonged to them thousands of years ago.

The whole thing is utterly baffling to me.

There are also a bunch of times surrounding countries attacked them and lost. Like how East Jerusalem got to be in Israeli hands.
llien
Member
(12-07-2017, 02:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

Yeah, this decision shouldn't surprise anyone. And more than anything, people talking about a violent response as some kind of undesired side effect instead of his intent in doing this have a naive world view. He's expecting a violent response and that's partly why he did it.

But why don't you see it as an attempt to get votes of the Jewish voters? Note that he promised to do it before the election.
Dunki
Member
(12-07-2017, 02:27 PM)

Originally Posted by Dude Abides

Youd have to be a real idiot to see this as a chance for peace. Unless the notion is to provoke palestinian violence and use that as a reason to kill all of them.

Even Trump said there is no other solution than a 2 state one. Again if there is now violence I would blame the radical Islam for it. But that is just me. And yes I am maybe a bit biased since I am German.
gunslikewhoa
Member
(12-07-2017, 02:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by llien

But why don't you see it as an attempt to get votes of the Jewish voters? Note that he promised to do it before the election.

That had nothing to do with Jewish voters. The vast majority of American Jews are liberal and couldn't care less about Jerusalem being the capital.
Mohonky
Junior Member
(12-07-2017, 02:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by gunslikewhoa

That had nothing to do with Jewish voters. The vast majority of American Jews are liberal and couldn't care less about Jerusalem being the capital.

I think you might be a bit off on that. God gave the Jews Isreal, you cant really be Jewish without believing that Jewish ownership of Isreal is an ordained right.
gunslikewhoa
Member
(12-07-2017, 02:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mohonky

I think you might be a bit off on that. God gave the Jews Isreal, you cant really be Jewish without believing that Jewish ownership of Isreal is an ordained right.

You can be Jewish and believe whatever you want. You can also certainly decide for yourself how much you care about those beliefs.
Dunki
Member
(12-07-2017, 02:59 PM)

Originally Posted by gunslikewhoa

You can be Jewish and believe whatever you want. You can also certainly decide for yourself how much you care about those beliefs.

But this also goes for the other side. Again the only ones really angry about this are radical Muslims. Should we just listen to them so they shut up and be peaceful?

Example Erdogan: He just went to Greece and was talking how the borders are not acceptable anymore and that they want some areas "back" Should we listen to the Iran and Hamas who are both far from reasonable voices in anything.
llien
Member
(12-07-2017, 03:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by gunslikewhoa

That had nothing to do with Jewish voters. The vast majority of American Jews are liberal and couldn't care less about Jerusalem being the capital.

I don't live in the USA and don't know that many to challenge official statistic (if there is any)) but most of my Jewish classmates who are now in the US are conservative, all welcome this step.
gunslikewhoa
Member
(12-07-2017, 03:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dunki

But this also goes for the other side. Again the only ones really angry about this are radical Muslims. Should we just listen to them so they shut up and be peaceful?

Example Erdogan: He just went to Greece and was talking how the borders are not acceptable anymore and that they want some areas "back" Should we listen to the Iran and Hamas who are both far from reasonable voices in anything.

I have no idea why you are asking me this. None of this has anything to do with my point regarding American Jewish voter attitudes toward Israel and Trump not doing this for votes.
gunslikewhoa
Member
(12-07-2017, 03:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by llien

I don't live in the USA and don't know that many to challenge official statistic (if there is any)) but most of my Jewish classmates who are now in the US are conservative, all welcome this step.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that the majority of Jews everywhere but America are conservative.
Dude Abides
Member
(12-07-2017, 03:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dunki

Even Trump said there is no other solution than a 2 state one. Again if there is now violence I would blame the radical Islam for it. But that is just me. And yes I am maybe a bit biased since I am German.

Who cares what Trump says? Trump lies all the time about everything. Youíd blame radical Islam if you got a hangnail so your second statement means little.

Originally Posted by Mohonky

I think you might be a bit off on that. God gave the Jews Isreal, you cant really be Jewish without believing that Jewish ownership of Isreal is an ordained right.

This is untrue. Jewish is an ethnicity. A lot of Jewish people arenít even religious.
oliander
Member
(12-07-2017, 03:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by gunslikewhoa

I'm certain the timing of this is somewhat related to the current shakeup in SA. There are things happening that we are not seeing yet.

Indeed. SA lurching into modernity might prove to be the key to conflicts in the Middle East come to an end. If any country over there can spearhead a new more westernized wave of Islam, it'll be SA.
llien
Member
(12-07-2017, 03:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by gunslikewhoa

It wouldn't surprise me to find that the majority of Jews everywhere but America are conservative.

Interesting, exit polls actually show only 25%-26 of American Jewish voting for Trump (67-70% for Clinton).
Very surprised.

PS
Chatted with Jewish friends.
"Fake news". (lol) "Haaretz is as left as it gets".
Let me dig the actual poll.
Lynn616
Member
(12-07-2017, 03:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Damerman

So annexing peoples lands and subjugating them to inhumane living conditions as second class citizens for over half a century would never cause you to revolt in violence?

I bet you are white... and its because you are white that u are not able to empathize with the palistinians as much as you can with the jews.

I said that recognizing Jerusalem as the capitol is not justification for violence.
gunslikewhoa
Member
(12-07-2017, 03:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by llien

Interesting, exit polls actually show only 25%-26 of American Jewish voting for Trump (67-70% for Clinton).
Very surprised.

Yeah. The majority have voted democrat in presidential elections since the early 1900s.

I just saw your PS. Tell your friends 'LOL.'
llien
Member
(12-07-2017, 03:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by gunslikewhoa

Yeah. The majority have voted democrat in presidential elections since the early 1900s.

I just saw your PS. Tell your friends 'LOL.'

I'm digging further. So far all I could find is in line with Haaretz (ok, Jewish here is a religious group, but nevertheless or, heck, even more so):



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ll_religrace/:


My conclusion so far is that my former classmates are hardly representative of US Jewish community. (perhaps while most of them spent quite a while in Israel, including IDF)
I'll still give them benefit of a doubt and will wait for sources debunking these number. Will post it here, if I find it reputable.
gunslikewhoa
Member
(12-07-2017, 03:50 PM)
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I'm not guessing. I'm not making it up. This isn't something I learned recently. They've voted democrat for over a hundred years. It's common knowledge in America.
Dunki
Member
(12-07-2017, 03:56 PM)

Originally Posted by oliander

Indeed. SA lurching into modernity might prove to be the key to conflicts in the Middle East come to an end. If any country over there can spearhead a new more westernized wave of Islam, it'll be SA.

This is also an interesting approach but that would mean Trump would be smart. so.,..^^

I am all for a more westernized wave of Islam but I doubt its Saudi Arabia right now.
gunslikewhoa
Member
(12-07-2017, 04:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dunki

This is also an interesting approach but that would mean Trump would be smart. so.,..^^

I am all for a more westernized wave of Islam but I doubt its Saudi Arabia right now.

If it's going to be anybody right now, it's Saudi Arabia.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/sa...oup-15592.html
Dunki
Member
(12-07-2017, 04:09 PM)

Originally Posted by gunslikewhoa

If it's going to be anybody right now, it's Saudi Arabia.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/sa...oup-15592.html

I can only hope since a ton of mosques here in Germany also financed and controlled by Saudi Arabia. Lets just hope for the best. In this regard I think even if its a dangerous move its also a chance for peace minus radical islamists of course.
llien
Member
(12-07-2017, 04:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by gunslikewhoa

I'm not guessing. I'm not making it up. This isn't something I learned recently. They've voted democrat for over a hundred years. It's common knowledge in America.

I didn't imply you did.

Which makes Trump's motives even more puzzling.
gunslikewhoa
Member
(12-07-2017, 04:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by llien

I didn't imply you did.

Which makes Trump's motives even more puzzling.

Sorry. I misunderstood.
sans_pants
avec_pťnis
(12-07-2017, 05:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by llien

I didn't imply you did.

Which makes Trump's motives even more puzzling.

American Christians care more about Israel than American jews
Vigilant Walrus
Junior Member
(12-07-2017, 05:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dunki

38k people are quite a lot to get actual statistics. This is how it works. And yes it is based on the radicalization of Islam raiging in the 60s and 70s. People get manipulated in Mosquese and Imam's teaching their radical beliefs. To blame it on social standings is pretty naive in my opinion.

Ok how about another survey in which 40% of young Muslims born in the UK are in favor of the Sahria as offical law. Whats really dangerous is the radicalization of the youth. Just watch this how the situation in Germany is right now. It was aired in I think 2015 on a very central TV station. Its not some fox bullshit or Breitbart but rather facts regarding the Islam in Germany.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVWAIKoatWM

But this goes really off topic so we better create a new thread if you want to talk more about this.

You're not comprehending what I am saying. I am not saying that a sample size of 38K is not large enough. I'm saying that the manner of how you pose a question can massively impact how a person response. The takeaway is that you need to take surveys with a grain of salt. They can show a tendency or a pattern or give some interesting observations, but from that alone you cannot conclude that 2 billion people are radical islamists. It's disingenious, insulting and dangerous. Furthermore, over half the people in that survey said sharia should only apply to muslims and many where progressive and conservative about vastly different things.

It's such a tone deaf, generalizing and lazy conclusion to draw from that I am struggling to find an explanation for that you are not trolling, or that you're a giant closet racist. Muslims are not a monolithic entity, and you taking questionable surveys at face value to derive a political agenda is beyond dumb- It's insulting.




Originally Posted by Mohonky


Anyway, I have never understood the Jewish 'right' to Isreal. Countries and borders have changed over time, all conquering civilizations have displaced or absorbed entire ethnic groups and societies....yet we always end up on this 'but God gave Isreal and Judea to the Jews.'

I have no idea how this became a thing that a 3000yr old text is somehow relevant to geopolitics in the 21st century. There are indigenous people that exhausted for over 50 thousand years that were displaced in the past 400yrs that would get laughed at for even trying to argue for country back, but for some reason Isreal is the only country I can think of where they actively displaced an ethnic group in the past century on the notion that that land belonged to them thousands of years ago.

The whole thing is utterly baffling to me.

Chomsky breaks it down in an anglo-sphere angle through the lens of Christian Zionism predating Jewish Zionism.

It's for comments like this that Chomsky (and guys like Bernie) have been called antisemites and "not friends of Israel" if you read the right-wing pro-Israel websites. It's outrageous.


These are the type of terrible people who cheered when Trump got elected because he would be terrible towards muslims. It's depressing.
michaelius
Member
(12-07-2017, 05:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by oliander

Indeed. SA lurching into modernity might prove to be the key to conflicts in the Middle East come to an end. If any country over there can spearhead a new more westernized wave of Islam, it'll be SA.

They don't have to spearhead anything it will be enough if they stop exporting ther extremist version of Islam.
Damerman
Member
(12-07-2017, 06:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mohonky

I think you might be a bit off on that. God gave the Jews Isreal, you cant really be Jewish without believing that Jewish ownership of Isreal is an ordained right.

Lol chill, this is all political.
tkscz
Member
(12-07-2017, 06:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Damerman

So annexing peoples lands and subjugating them to inhumane living conditions as second class citizens for over half a century would never cause you to revolt in violence?

I bet you are white... and its because you are white that u are not able to empathize with the palistinians as much as you can with the jews.

Dude wtf?
Resident_UA
Member
(12-07-2017, 06:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dunki

And I gave you sources and articles staing its true and not unfounded. How is this not clear? Also there is a probably and that you can argue about it so it means it debatable. And this has nothing to do with racism. Islam or religion in general is something you choose not something you are born with.

You made racist statement and you have not backed it up at all. Statement below again. It has nothing to do with reality. It's simply fearmogering and racism. There no amount of "articles" that would back this up.

I'm not arguing with you about the statement being a fact. It's obviously not true (Hey Nazis weren't so great either!). I'm arguing that you made a racist statement and you refuse even for a second to reconsider it.

1. Muslims are probably Number 1 at oppressing others through out history. Let us not forget this. I am sorry I give you the white men and we can argue who is worse in this regard but Muslims did not better and most importantly they are doing it today like they did before.

oliander
Member
(12-07-2017, 07:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by michaelius

They don't have to spearhead anything it will be enough if they stop exporting ther extremist version of Islam.

Hey man, I can't exactly shit on their strategy to dump islam's undesirables onto the laps of the rest of the world, especially when the media doesn't dare call out SA for their empty refugee camps lol.

Destabilize the competition while slowly priming your own population for success in global society, they're killing it.
Dunki
Member
(12-07-2017, 07:43 PM)

Originally Posted by Resident_UA

You made racist statement and you have not backed it up at all. Statement below again. It has nothing to do with reality. It's simply fearmogering and racism. There no amount of "articles" that would back this up.

I'm not arguing with you about the statement being a fact. It's obviously not true (Hey Nazis weren't so great either!). I'm arguing that you made a racist statement and you refuse even for a second to reconsider it.

If you can not read the articles I posted or the sources I quoted it is not my problem. And honestly I do not care if this is a racist statement in your opinion because when it is the truth why should I not say it?

I personally consider Christianity and Islam as the ideologies who were (Islam still is) are the most vile form of oppressors through out history and I backed up this claim. And no it is #notallmuslim but a vast majority of it since I again showed with the pew research which consists of 15 pages full of statistics to back up my claims.

So maybe just maybe it is your turn now to show that I am wrong with other statistics and maybe then we can have a discussion about it.

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