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TheLaughingStock
Member
(12-01-2017, 07:00 PM)
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I see why some people are lobbying for this bill not to go through because the bill would harm the poor and the biggest beneficiaries are big businesses.

However, as far as costs, a bill that is estimated to cost $500 billion -$1.7 trillion dollars over the next 10 years isn't a lot. The US economy is putting out $18.57 trillion as of 2016. Therefore, the cost burden of this bill on the US economy will be tiny by the time it fully goes into effect.

Additionally, from 2006-2016 the US ran a deficit of 8.1 trillion and debt held by the public increased nearly 200%. Look at the economy now. It's pretty good under Pres. Trump just like it was pretty good towards the tail end of Pres. Obama's 2nd term.

If people don't want to spend this money giving tax breaks to job creators, then what do you want to do to kick the economy into high gear?
OniBarubary
Banned
(12-01-2017, 07:21 PM)
>TheLaughingStock thread

Not even once. Appropriate name tho.
SkateorDi3
Member
(12-01-2017, 07:21 PM)
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because its cool to hate anything republican.
Clerical Error
Member
(12-01-2017, 07:43 PM)
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Paying contractors to dig a giant trench and other contractors to fill it back up behind them would literally be more productive and beneficial to the economy.
David___
Member
(12-01-2017, 07:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by SkateorDi3

because its cool to hate anything republican.

People wouldn't hate them if they didn't try to fuck over the middle/lower classes and minorities
Dreadnought
Member
(12-01-2017, 07:47 PM)
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Corporations have already said a tax cut will not make them create jobs.
Reverse Giraffe
Banned
(12-01-2017, 07:48 PM)
Corporations are raking in record profits.. nothing wrong with them giving a bit more back to society.

This tax bill is just a giveaway to the people who need it the least.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
(12-01-2017, 07:49 PM)
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"job creators" lolz all around
Wizeguy21
Member
(12-01-2017, 07:57 PM)
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I believe the bill also repeals the mandate for healthcare. Which is the start to dismantling obama care without a replacement.

Also this wouldn't be a tax break for homeowners in high taxed states like NY or California.Removes the SALT deductions

Any tax breaks given to people under 100k would be temporary.

The real beneficiaries would be people who earn over 150k and big business.

And given the current state of things that just money that will be going into their own pockets.

This bill is just a thank you to the republican donors.

I really hope it fails.. Just got a house this wouldn't help me and if your gonna start screwing up healthcare.. means all our rates are going up before something gets put in place to help.
TheChocoboCadet
Member
(12-01-2017, 08:07 PM)
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For a moment, just forget about anything else about the bill. Forget about the corporate tax cuts, the disproportionate cuts on the wealthy, anything that could be debated as "something which will stimulate the economy" and just hear me out.

Long term, this bill will
1. Increase the deficit
2. Increase or keep constant taxes on low-income individuals.
3. Repeal the estate tax.

Those three facts, when combined, are more than enough to determine that this bill is not being written in good faith towards lower and middle class citizens.
ssolitare
Member
(12-01-2017, 08:33 PM)

Originally Posted by TheChocoboCadet

For a moment, just forget about anything else about the bill. Forget about the corporate tax cuts, the disproportionate cuts on the wealthy, anything that could be debated as "something which will stimulate the economy" and just hear me out.

Long term, this bill will
1. Increase the deficit
2. Increase or keep constant taxes on low-income individuals.
3. Repeal the estate tax.

Those three facts, when combined, are more than enough to determine that this bill is not being written in good faith towards lower and middle class citizens.

Indeed.

The push to raise money came after an analysis by the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation found that the tax cuts would not pay for themselves by generating enough revenue through economic growth to offset the tax cuts, as Republicans have claimed, but would instead add $1 trillion to budget deficits over the next 10 years.

mr2xxx
Banned
(12-01-2017, 09:05 PM)
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Rich people are just going to invest that money and increase their wealth. It’s only going to increase income inequality and likely lead to another recession due to societal safety nets being removed from austerity measures being put into place from trying to balance the budget. Because we all know conservatives love talking about balancing the budget to Democrats after they fuck it up with the their trickle down economic policy.
Big Blue
Member
(12-01-2017, 09:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheLaughingStock

I see why some people are lobbying for this bill not to go through because the bill would harm the poor and the biggest beneficiaries are big businesses.

However, as far as costs, a bill that is estimated to cost $500 billion -$1.7 trillion dollars over the next 10 years isn't a lot. The US economy is putting out $18.57 trillion as of 2016. Therefore, the cost burden of this bill on the US economy will be tiny by the time it fully goes into effect.

Additionally, from 2006-2016 the US ran a deficit of 8.1 trillion and debt held by the public increased nearly 200%. Look at the economy now. It's pretty good under Pres. Trump just like it was pretty good towards the tail end of Pres. Obama's 2nd term.

If people don't want to spend this money giving tax breaks to job creators, then what do you want to do to kick the economy into high gear?

Never in the history of the United States has trickle down economics actually ever work. I can't believe that Republicans still believe this. You're a troll for not even researching this. Supply-side economics do nothing but benefit the rich.
frankthurk
Member
(12-01-2017, 10:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheLaughingStock

I see why some people are lobbying for this bill not to go through because the bill would harm the poor and the biggest beneficiaries are big businesses.

However, as far as costs, a bill that is estimated to cost $500 billion -$1.7 trillion dollars over the next 10 years isn't a lot. The US economy is putting out $18.57 trillion as of 2016. Therefore, the cost burden of this bill on the US economy will be tiny by the time it fully goes into effect.

Additionally, from 2006-2016 the US ran a deficit of 8.1 trillion and debt held by the public increased nearly 200%. Look at the economy now. It's pretty good under Pres. Trump just like it was pretty good towards the tail end of Pres. Obama's 2nd term.

If people don't want to spend this money giving tax breaks to job creators, then what do you want to do to kick the economy into high gear?

I think it's more a matter of are you getting worth out of what you pay for, and this bill doesn't look like it offers a lot for most people. As for kicking the economy into high gear, I believe it's been shown that giving more money to those at the bottom spurs more economic activity than giving to those at the top... but maybe I'm wrong on that.
Metalingus5150
Banned
(12-01-2017, 10:05 PM)
You know why asshole
T.v
Member
(12-01-2017, 10:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheLaughingStock

I see why some people are lobbying for this bill not to go through because the bill would harm the poor and the biggest beneficiaries are big businesses.

Do you need any more reason?
deadscreensky
Banned
(12-01-2017, 10:22 PM)
Maybe this time voodoo economics will work!

They won't.

Originally Posted by TheChocoboCadet

For a moment, just forget about anything else about the bill. Forget about the corporate tax cuts, the disproportionate cuts on the wealthy, anything that could be debated as "something which will stimulate the economy" and just hear me out.

Long term, this bill will
1. Increase the deficit
2. Increase or keep constant taxes on low-income individuals.
3. Repeal the estate tax.

Those three facts, when combined, are more than enough to determine that this bill is not being written in good faith towards lower and middle class citizens.

Well put.

It's telling that most economists disagree with the various GOP claims about any good this bill would do. It's not based on any sort of sound economic knowledge (which honestly suggests something more like we should raise taxes higher on the rich, because we're clearly on the left side of the Laffer Curve), it's just designed to make wealthy people like Trump and GOP donors even richer.

It's bad policy.
DogDude
Banned
(12-01-2017, 11:27 PM)

Originally Posted by TheLaughingStock

I see why some people are lobbying for this bill not to go through because the bill would harm the poor and the biggest beneficiaries are big businesses.

However, as far as costs, a bill that is estimated to cost $500 billion -$1.7 trillion dollars over the next 10 years isn't a lot. The US economy is putting out $18.57 trillion as of 2016. Therefore, the cost burden of this bill on the US economy will be tiny by the time it fully goes into effect.

Additionally, from 2006-2016 the US ran a deficit of 8.1 trillion and debt held by the public increased nearly 200%. Look at the economy now. It's pretty good under Pres. Trump just like it was pretty good towards the tail end of Pres. Obama's 2nd term.

If people don't want to spend this money giving tax breaks to job creators, then what do you want to do to kick the economy into high gear?

Nobody ever cares about the deficit unless you're a politician and your party isn't in power.
RastaMentality
Banned
(12-01-2017, 11:34 PM)

Originally Posted by TheLaughingStock

I see why some people are lobbying for this bill not to go through because the bill would harm the poor and the biggest beneficiaries are big businesses.

However, as far as costs, a bill that is estimated to cost $500 billion -$1.7 trillion dollars over the next 10 years isn't a lot. The US economy is putting out $18.57 trillion as of 2016. Therefore, the cost burden of this bill on the US economy will be tiny by the time it fully goes into effect.

Additionally, from 2006-2016 the US ran a deficit of 8.1 trillion and debt held by the public increased nearly 200%. Look at the economy now. It's pretty good under Pres. Trump just like it was pretty good towards the tail end of Pres. Obama's 2nd term.

If people don't want to spend this money giving tax breaks to job creators, then what do you want to do to kick the economy into high gear?

What has trump done with regards to the economy?

He has passed 0 major legislation. Why are you crediting him?
rokkerkory
Member
(12-01-2017, 11:36 PM)
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It was a huge argument when Obama was in office from the GOP, enough that they threatened government shutdown several times.

But now? hrmmm
sans_pants
avec_pénis
(12-01-2017, 11:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by DogDude

Nobody ever cares about the deficit unless you're a politician and your party isn't in power.

youre supposed to grow it during bad times and shrink it during the good


these fucking idiots are about to blow a hole in it while the economy is humming along. the crash should be just great
New Year, New Me
Member
(12-01-2017, 11:50 PM)
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I want confirmation that the OP understands now.
TesUsa
Member
(12-02-2017, 12:00 AM)
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You have to be a pretty scummy person to still support Trump. The tax bill is going to fuck over anyone not making over 100k and add a trillion dollars to our debt. Even republicans admit this
the-pi-guy
Member
(12-02-2017, 12:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheLaughingStock

However, as far as costs, a bill that is estimated to cost $500 billion -$1.7 trillion dollars over the next 10 years isn't a lot. The US economy is putting out $18.57 trillion as of 2016. Therefore, the cost burden of this bill on the US economy will be tiny by the time it fully goes into effect.

You're basically arguing "we have lots of debt, what's the problem with more?"

Originally Posted by TheLaughingStock

Additionally, from 2006-2016 the US ran a deficit of 8.1 trillion and debt held by the public increased nearly 200%. Look at the economy now. It's pretty good under Pres. Trump just like it was pretty good towards the tail end of Pres. Obama's 2nd term.

Well, yeah because Trump hasn't done anything. And it's just holding steady from Obama's presidency.

Originally Posted by TheLaughingStock

If people don't want to spend this money giving tax breaks to job creators, then what do you want to do to kick the economy into high gear?

The job makers are also the lower and middle class. They are the ones who buy products. They pay much of the taxes.
The upper class is making more than ever, and you think they need a tax cut to convince them to pay more? This has historically never happened. The rich only accumulate more money. They don't decide to pay more money out of the goodness of their heart.
J-Rzez
Member
(12-02-2017, 12:46 AM)
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Its nice to think theyll pay more to employees, but they won't. They should be entitled to tax breaks if they document proof they raised all hourly wages on their employees first.

There are a few businesses out there who will do the right thing, but mist won't. Theyll continue on the same stagnant/failing example since it increases their bottom line.
sans_pants
avec_pénis
(12-02-2017, 01:01 AM)
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UPDATE: We just got a copy of what I think is the last-minute amendment to the bill. It's 479 pages long. An unsearchable PDF with handwriting all over it. This is the new tax code. To be voted on by the US Senate in just hours.
ssolitare
Member
(12-02-2017, 01:22 AM)
Yo, this bill is a festering disease. This shit is horrendous, although not uncommon enough. Pretty much any screenshots (esp the handwritten additions to the margins, or cross-outs) are being shared by lobbyists.

WHAT?
ssolitare
Member
(12-02-2017, 01:34 AM)
Why are people so mad?

Why?
120v
Member
(12-02-2017, 01:40 AM)

Originally Posted by TheLaughingStock

If people don't want to spend this money giving tax breaks to job creators, then what do you want to do to kick the economy into high gear?

it's demand that kicks the economy into high gear. cut taxes, raise taxes, it's all voodoo in the end if you believe legislation is a short or mid term panacea
Holy Order Sol
Member
(12-02-2017, 01:51 AM)
lmao TheLaughingStock
Dunki
Member
(12-02-2017, 01:52 AM)

Originally Posted by ssolitare

Why are people so mad?

Why?

yeah thats my take as well. How is this even possible.....
Euphor!a
Banned
(12-02-2017, 01:53 AM)

Originally Posted by Dunki

yeah thats my take as well. How is this even possible.....

I thought your take was that the alt-right has some great ideas?
Dunki
Member
(12-02-2017, 02:08 AM)

Originally Posted by Euphor!a

I thought your take was that the alt-right has some great ideas?

I NEVER said that.........

I said to solve a problem you need to understand it. Not that you should agree to racist ideas. Also I never thought Trump is a good president but rather analyzed why he was voted for.
Euphor!a
Banned
(12-02-2017, 02:10 AM)

Originally Posted by Dunki

I NEVER said that.........

I said to solve a problem you need to understand it. Not that you should agree to racist ideas. Also I never thought Trump is a good president but rather analzed why he was voted for.

You definitely got analzed by some alt-righters alright... What were those ideas that were worth listening to again?
ape2man
Member
(12-02-2017, 02:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheLaughingStock

I see why some people are lobbying for this bill not to go through because the bill would harm the poor and the biggest beneficiaries are big businesses.

However, as far as costs, a bill that is estimated to cost $500 billion -$1.7 trillion dollars over the next 10 years isn't a lot. The US economy is putting out $18.57 trillion as of 2016. Therefore, the cost burden of this bill on the US economy will be tiny by the time it fully goes into effect.

Additionally, from 2006-2016 the US ran a deficit of 8.1 trillion and debt held by the public increased nearly 200%. Look at the economy now. It's pretty good under Pres. Trump just like it was pretty good towards the tail end of Pres. Obama's 2nd term.

If people don't want to spend this money giving tax breaks to job creators, then what do you want to do to kick the economy into high gear?

trickle down economics does not work, and never will. You want this economy to be like it was in the 50's. Ok, spread as much wealth to as many people as possible, those people will buy stuff and that will create jobs. If a few people have that wealth how are they going to spend that money? They dont, because how much luxury food, shoes etc. do you need.
rokkerkory
Member
(12-02-2017, 02:38 AM)
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People already forgetting the 2007 recession? Look what happened last time we benefitted the big guy.
HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(12-02-2017, 02:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by rokkerkory

People already forgetting the 2007 recession? Look what happened last time we benefitted the big guy.

No this time its gonna work, they promise.
Sinfamy
Member
(12-02-2017, 02:59 AM)
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If people don't want to spend this money giving tax breaks to job creators
job creators
This isn't the 1980's anymore, that doesn't work.
demon
I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
(12-02-2017, 03:04 AM)
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People still use the term "job creators" un-ironically? It's amazing how clueless so many people are. Stop using these Frank Luntz propagandist euphemisms and just call them corporations like a normal person.
golfham
Banned
(12-02-2017, 03:34 AM)

Originally Posted by rokkerkory

People already forgetting the 2007 recession? Look what happened last time we benefitted the big guy.

The recession was fueled by sub prime loans, not the federal tax rate
rokkerkory
Member
(12-02-2017, 03:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by golfham

The recession was fueled by sub prime loans, not the federal tax rate

And who’s fault was that?
HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(12-02-2017, 04:07 AM)
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The Bill is a fucking nightmare of a mess that they are railroading through. There are entire margins filled with scribbled in addenums and there is so much shit that has nothing to do with taxes like drilling for oil in Alaska and repealing the fucking mandate. Those fucking slime even went so far as to add in provisions to take care of their own family members healthcare but no one elses. They're fucking villains who are nothing about the people who vote them into office. All of them.
daman824
Banned
(12-02-2017, 04:33 AM)
Repealing the mandate is going to sting. I was diagnosed with type one diabetes 3 years ago. Uninsured, it would cost me $900 a month to afford the insulin that I need to stay alive. That’s not including all the other medical supplies I need such as needles, test strips, and the glucose monitor I have ( $500 uninsured).

Thankfully, I’m 22 and am still able to stick on my parents insurance. But things could get pretty nasty when I hit 26.
TheLaughingStock
Member
(12-02-2017, 06:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sinfamy

If people don't want to spend this money giving tax breaks to job creators
job creators
This isn't the 1980's anymore, that doesn't work.

It does work. Tax increases slow the economy down. And cuts speed it up. True in 1980. Still true in 2017. Other factors are in play but the economy will respond.

Remember, Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for virtually everybody not out of the kindness of his heart but because he knew how important they were to the US economy. Alternatively, he didn't extend the tax cuts for the rich because he wanted score political points.

In any event, I get it. It's not a huge deal to me if you don't believe that helping job creators helps you. The question is what would you rather do instead if you don't want to give businesses a break.
Mr_Black
Banned
(12-02-2017, 07:51 AM)
Jobs will create if demand is up.

If you tax the general purchasing public, you get reduced demand for product. As you reduce average spending power.

If you took that 1 trillion and invested it in logistical infrastructure that creates greater efficiencies that would boost the economy more than this shit tax plan.

You create jobs on the front end, which stimulates demand. And the greater efficiencies in infrastructure creates myriad net benefit including heightened revenue.

Instead this tax plan is throwing some money on a massive pile of money. And expecting some fantastic results. There won't be any except reductions in medicare and social services down the line.

And none of the economic models factor in a recession.
RiccochetJ
Member
(12-02-2017, 09:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheLaughingStock

It does work. Tax increases slow the economy down. And cuts speed it up. True in 1980. Still true in 2017. Other factors are in play but the economy will respond.

Remember, Obama extended the Bush tax cuts for virtually everybody not out of the kindness of his heart but because he knew how important they were to the US economy. Alternatively, he didn't extend the tax cuts for the rich because he wanted score political points.

In any event, I get it. It's not a huge deal to me if you don't believe that helping job creators helps you. The question is what would you rather do instead if you don't want to give businesses a break.

Explain to me what's happening in Kansas and in Oklahoma right now.

I'm actually on your side mostly, but you throw out "job creators" as a talking point where it's impossible for me to believe that you actually know what that means other than a talking point on Fox News.

But I'll give you a chance. Explain to me who the job creators are. Explain why some of these breaks are good for businesses.
WaterAstro
Member
(12-02-2017, 09:08 AM)
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Trickle up economics.
rokkerkory
Member
(12-02-2017, 09:10 AM)
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California has the highest taxes. Guess how the economy is doing there?
RiccochetJ
Member
(12-02-2017, 09:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by rokkerkory

California has the highest taxes. Guess how the economy is doing there?

California has the benefit of being next to the ocean, being a mild climate, and if you want, you can go skiing. And there are palm trees.

It's a prime place to live. Other than the earthquakes though.

Of course the government can tax the everloving shit out of that state.

Now try Kansas.

It's flat. There's some pretty destructive tornadoes. It can hit -40 at times on the flat planes.

You can't compare these states on the same level like you just did. It's unfair.
rokkerkory
Member
(12-02-2017, 09:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by RiccochetJ

California has the benefit of being next to the ocean, being a mild climate, and if you want, you can go skiing. And there are palm trees.

It's a prime place to live. Other than the earthquakes though.

Of course the government can tax the everloving shit out of that state.

Now try Kansas.

It's flat. There's some pretty destructive tornadoes. It can hit -40 at times on the flat planes.

You can't compare these states on the same level like you just did. It's unfair.

Man if everyone thought the way you did no one would live in Kansas!

I wonder why Colorado is booming then with no shorelines to speak of.

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