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Raitosaito · Feb 4, 2017

I guess I'll just get this out of the way. I resell full time as a job around 2 months ago, and am on track to making the same if not more than my job, but with a lot more free time and flexibility. I was making a pretty comfortable living as well.

Now what I didn't really pay attention to before is people really vehemently being against scalpers/resellers/retail arbitragers. But a lot of people actually own multi million dollar companies just reselling on Amazon. My own mother has been an Amazon reseller for almost a year, and she only told me last month. She just shops and list on Amazon.

Honestly if people are paying for it, my personal opinion is "why not?". But I have a bias view and I just want to see where everybody is coming from.

Also it's late and idk wtf I'm doing.

FreeMufasa · Feb 4, 2017

Do your ting. Let those that cry get a lesson in patience

Slayer-33 · Feb 4, 2017

Wait, buy stuff on Amazon and resell it on Amazon? Really?

Breads · Feb 4, 2017

It's a job, just like any other.

Hoo-doo · Feb 4, 2017

If you can make some paper out of that immensely dumb 'DAY 1!!1!' culture, then you should feel free to do so.

So hustle away.

If you're talking about scalping in terms of stuff like console/tech releases etc.

Raitosaito · Feb 4, 2017

Slayer-33 said:
Wait, buy stuff on Amazon and resell it on Amazon? Really?

No, I buy stuff online at other local listing apps like OfferUp and resell on eBay.

My mother buys stuff on eBay/Marshalls/Target/WalMart and resell on Amazon.

We deal in completely different markets, but essentially the same profession.

Hoo-doo said:
If you can make some paper out of that immensely dumb 'DAY 1!!1!' culture, then you should feel free to do so.

So hustle away.

If you're talking about scalping in terms of stuff like console/tech releases etc.

Yeah, a small amount of my inventory is video game items. A lot of consumer products year round are rare and limited like recent release consoles or the NES.

Xtyle · Feb 4, 2017

You gotta do what you gotta do.
We have a resell business and if I happen to see a good deal I won't pass it up.

Lagamorph · Feb 4, 2017

Depends.

If you're buying up all of a rare item (say Amiibo) or highly demanded tickets to an event and then just trying to flip them for a profit, then you're nothing but utter scum.
If you're just buying items while they're cheap/on sale and then reselling them for something closer to standard price when the discounts are over, I don't really see a problem.

old manatee · Feb 4, 2017

Scalpers are all uncreative assholes.

Raitosaito · Feb 4, 2017

Lagamorph said:
Depends.

If you're buying up all of a rare item (say Amiibo) or highly demanded tickets to an event and then just trying to flip them for a profit, then you're nothing but utter scum.
If you're just buying items while they're cheap/on sale and then reselling them for something closer to standard price when the discounts are over, I don't really see a problem.

I do both. So I'm 50% scum.

The Exploder said:
Scalpers are all uncreative assholes.

My imagination doesn't work so well.

GuessMyUserName · Feb 4, 2017

It's basic economics 101 so it's hard to really call it an inherently bad thing. But it's certainly anti-consumer and companies should do their absolute best to fight it, for the good of the people.

Kurita · Feb 4, 2017

Lagamorph said:
Depends.

If you're buying up all of a rare item (say Amiibo) or highly demanded tickets to an event and then just trying to flip them for a profit, then you're nothing but utter scum.

Pretty much

riotous · Feb 4, 2017

Artificial price inflation without increasing sales of an item; in fact it can put producers of products and retail chains at risk since the grey market scalpers take no risks since they can just return unsold items. Might even cause a product to manufacture more items since the scalpers artificially make demand look high (Wii-U comes to mind, shelves full of unsold games, Nintendo had to accept the return of product at a loss and halt production.)

Not to mention the fact that it takes money out of loss leader markets; someone pays $600 for a console that was $400 retail chances are they are buying less games.

You add nothing to anyone but yourself and people wealthy enough to pay scalper rates.

I particularly have zero respect for anyone who does it for products in a hobby that they enjoy; find it incredibly crass to see people on video game forums bragging about scalping consoles for instance.

Basically scalpers generally make enjoyable hobbies worse. They make everything worse other than their own pocket full of money.

Raitosaito · Feb 4, 2017

GuessMyUserName said:
It's basic economics 101 so it's hard to really call it an inherently bad thing. But it's certainly anti-consumer and companies should do their absolute best to fight it, for the good of the people.

They definitely try, but the effort is for show I feel because the measures for any type of product when it goes online can be circumvented. And in retail stores social engineering and a little bit of money goes a long way.

riotous said:
Artificial price inflation without increasing sales of an item; in fact it can put producers of products and retail chains at risk since the grey market scalpers take no risks since they can just return unsold items. Might even cause a product to manufacture more items since the scalpels artificially make demand look high (Wii-U comes to mind, shelves full of unsold games, Nintendo had to accept the return of product at a loss and halt production.)

You add nothing to anyone but yourself and people wealthy enough to pay scalper rates.

I particularly have zero respect for anyone who does it for products in a hobby that enjoy; find it incredibly crass to see people on video game forums bragging about scalping consoles for instance.

I won't say I disagree with this, but I definitely take my losses with products and as a general rule never return an item.
Also I usually deal with products on a retail cost business, so items I find are usually below MSRP and sold at MSRP, but yes I do deal on what is considered scalping here.

TangerineCloud · Feb 4, 2017

I've often found that the market for scalped goods (at least for video games) is purely driven by some combination of hype, consumer impatience, and artificial scarcity or supplier incompetence. I don't feel bad for taking advantage of any of those things.

Aztechnology · Feb 4, 2017

I've made a supplementary living as a student off retail arbitrage. Never really committed myself fully. But I have in fact scalped items as well. I'm not super proud of it, but it's helped pay for a nice chunk of my loans and some games here and there.

Mainly, I just like to find price mistakes, or bundle deals and part it out at a profit. Feels a lot better when everyone comes out feeling like they got a good deal.

Xtyle · Feb 4, 2017

Hard to say. A business is there to make money you know.
I myself usually stay away from those rare to find new products that sells 3x the normal price, not because I would feel guilty about it but a lot of times it is a big waste of time.

Lagamorph said:
Depends.

If you're buying up all of a rare item (say Amiibo) or highly demanded tickets to an event and then just trying to flip them for a profit, then you're nothing but utter scum.
If you're just buying items while they're cheap/on sale and then reselling them for something closer to standard price when the discounts are over, I don't really see a problem.

SamVimes · Feb 4, 2017

Ticket scalpers are pieces of shit.

HoodWinked · Feb 4, 2017

dollar shave club buys dorco blades then resell them at a higher price.

middle man is always making money all over the place on a large scale if some individual scalps something it sucks but really can't get mad when that shit is happening on a mass scale all over the place.

Raguel · Feb 4, 2017

SamVimes said:
Ticket scalpers are pieces of shit.

This.

Raitosaito · Feb 4, 2017

SamVimes said:
Ticket scalpers are pieces of shit.

LMAO, I think they're a bad version of what I do because of how insane they go with price inflation and consumer manipulation. I hate them too honestly because the markups are insane, and don't conform to even what consumers are willing to pay. Even wealthy ones.

But you be the judge.

GuessMyUserName · Feb 4, 2017

Raitosaito said:
They definitely try, but the effort is for show I feel because the measures for any type of product when it goes online can be circumvented. And in retail stores social engineering and a little bit of money goes a long way.

Oh I know for sure, but hey it could be a lot simpler if people could just buy up everything up front without any safeguards. Yeah it's not hard to circumvent, but it's at least some barrier.

riotous · Feb 4, 2017

Raitosaito said:
I won't say I disagree with this, but I definitely take my losses with products and as a general rule never return an item.
Also I usually deal with products on a retail cost business, so items I find are usually below MSRP and sold at MSRP, but yes I do deal on what is considered scalping here.

Oh, a "general rule" huh?

If you are buying below MSRP and selling at MSRP you aren't a scalper.

Frankly, I don't believe you. Not trying to argue or anything but this is a bit like discussing piracy; "I just try before I buy" kind of talk.

Ikuu · Feb 4, 2017

Nothing wrong with reselling, blame the companies that don't produce enough that make this an issue.

Mimosa97 · Feb 4, 2017

Scalpers are parasite but so are most people who work in banking/finance etc...

At least you're not scalping essential goods (food, water, medicine etc..) in times of war/instability/scarcity so I guess you can find solace in the fact that there are people out there who are way worse than you ?

Raitosaito · Feb 4, 2017

GuessMyUserName said:
Oh I know for sure, but hey it could be a lot simpler if people could just buy up everything up front without any safeguards. Yeah it's not hard to circumvent, but it's at least some barrier.

I agree, and honestly wouldn't hurt me much if the rarer items go away. Small percentage of my overall business.

Companies I wish actually cared more on that front, because the safeguards for most rare products are for show to calm consumers.

riotous said:
Oh, a "general rule" huh?

If you are buying below MSRP and selling at MSRP you aren't a scalper.

Frankly, I don't believe you.

That's fine if you don't believe me.

I was just saying I don't just scalp, I resell items I find below retail and that's my main market.

i.e. baby wipes that go for triple on eBay or Amazon compared to what it is at good will or Marshalls

Xtyle · Feb 4, 2017

riotous said:
Oh, a "general rule" huh?

If you are buying below MSRP and selling at MSRP you aren't a scalper.

Frankly, I don't believe you.

I would say that's mostly what resellers do. Buy at a good discount and sell at whatever current market price is, higher or lower than MSRP is not a factor in this.

Shaanyboi · Feb 4, 2017

Scalpers are pieces of shit. You're not providing a service, you're not fulfilling a niche. You are literally just fucking taking advantage of people.

Aztechnology · Feb 4, 2017

Raitosaito said:
LMAO, I think they're a bad version of what I do because of how insane they go with price inflation and consumer manipulation. I hate them too honestly because the markups are insane, and don't conform to even what consumers are willing to pay. Even wealthy ones.

But you be the judge.

Even ticket scalpers are just taking advantage of a system that could easily be adjusted to limit scalping. There's automated systems designed to buy as many tickets as possible using things like ticketmaster. If Ticket Master wanted to stop excessive scalping they could... they don't want to because it means they sell out their tickets incredibly quickly and it makes their job easier.

But I do agree that for limited events it's quite a bit worse. I won't sell tickets or passes to anything like PAX. I've sold my passes at PAX after being inside for a few hours before. But I won't cross the line of buying up tons of passes to scalp. Maybe I'm foolish not to though.

riotous · Feb 4, 2017

Xtyle said:
I would say that's mostly what resellers do. Buy at a good discount and sell at whatever current market price is, higher or lower than MSRP is not a factor in this.

This thread is about scalping; which literally means to sell at a higher price than the official one.

Raitosaito · Feb 4, 2017

riotous said:
This thread is about scalping; which literally means to sell at a higher price than the official one.

I put reselling in the title too, but yeah I can see how it can be misleading. Apologize for that.

People seem to hate resellers also, and lump everyone together.

Shaanyboi said:
Scalpers are pieces of shit. You're not providing a service, you're not fulfilling a niche. You are literally just fucking taking advantage of people.

People can collude and not pay those prices, and most people I know will sell at retail cost or below to get rid of the item and just move on to the next hot thing. People choose to pay the inflated prices from my personal experience.

riotous said:
You lumped them together in the OP lol.

:/ I did but it was clarify that they are not the same thing in this thread. People just treat it all as just one clump, but I am glad to at least get your opinion on one of the titles.

riotous · Feb 4, 2017

Raitosaito said:
I put reselling in the title too, but yeah I can see how it can be misleading. Apologize for that.

People seem to hate resellers also, and lump everyone together.

You lumped them together in the OP lol.

Xtyle · Feb 4, 2017

Shaanyboi said:
Scalpers are pieces of shit. You're not providing a service, you're not fulfilling a niche. You are literally just fucking taking advantage of people.

Actually you are a bit off.
I don't usually scalp but let me tell you this, when 3DS was sold out this past holiday. I drove out in below 0 degree weather during a snow storm and bought them all where I could find in stores within 150 miles. Me and my brother slept in the car at night in the cold. Sure the people who bought our 3DS paid more than MSRP but they didn't have to go out in the cold to look for them and even if they looked, they might not find it. So we did provide them a good service.

Derwind · Feb 4, 2017

Lagamorph said:
Depends.

If you're buying up all of a rare item (say Amiibo) or highly demanded tickets to an event and then just trying to flip them for a profit, then you're nothing but utter scum.
If you're just buying items while they're cheap/on sale and then reselling them for something closer to standard price when the discounts are over, I don't really see a problem.

This. Reselling in general is okay, its when you try to create artificial scarcity that doesn't sit well with me.

Xtyle · Feb 4, 2017

riotous said:
This thread is about scalping; which literally means to sell at a higher price than the official one.

He said reselling...doesn't always mean scalping but if it is only for scalping than you are right.

Fat4all · Feb 4, 2017

You are allowed to sell whatever you own unless it's a controlled substance, usually.

Garrett Hawke · Feb 4, 2017

I think scalping one of a kind things (concert tickets, limited run stuff) is pretty shitty but scalping things that will eventually have plenty of supply (like a new iPhone, PSVR or whatever) is fine because at that point, you're just finding someone who has more money than time.

Joyful · Feb 4, 2017

buy my nintendo switch

Raitosaito · Feb 4, 2017

Joyful said:
buy my nintendo switch

Neon plz. And pp invoice me

Kill3r7 · Feb 4, 2017

No scalping is just the common person's arbitrage.

Alienous · Feb 4, 2017

I think scalping is terrible. It's just people taking the opportunity to screw over other people.

I can't justify it other than "I'm going to be a dick to make some money".

Mr.Mike · Feb 4, 2017

So as far as I can tell the difference between arbitrage/reselling and scalping is that people are mad they can't afford to pay the actual price for things they want? (The actual price being whatever price two parties agree to exchange something for, not whatever the MSRP might be).

Fox Mulder · Feb 4, 2017

I did reselling for a summer years ago. Was fun going to thrift shops and flipping $5 things for good profit. Seems like lots of people do it too.

Shaanyboi said:
Scalpers are pieces of shit. You're not providing a service, you're not fulfilling a niche. You are literally just fucking taking advantage of people.

Nothing really forces people to pay inflated prices for plastic shit. You're fucking dumb to pay like $300 or whatever for stuff like the NES classic or hatchimals, but people do. That's on them.

Just pass or wait for the demand to die down. Or go wait in line at 3 am too.

riotous · Feb 4, 2017

Raitosaito said:
:/ I did but it was clarify that they are not the same thing in this thread. People just treat it all as just one clump, but I am glad to at least get your opinion on one of the titles.

lol it's all good just thought it was funny.

Reselling isn't all that terrible or anything but I wouldn't say it's all that positive either; if 10 of an item is on sale it would be better if 10 people enjoyed that price. And for the store, they make a sale to 10 different people who they can make an impression on and maybe make more sales to later.

But it's not predatory or highly detrimental like scalping.

In general both reselling and scalping have become safer for consumers since a lot of it is done through venues that offer consumer protection like Amazon and EBay too.

Guerrilla · Feb 4, 2017

Well you're definitely hurting people with this, its not just about people who are "dumb enough to pay the extra" you are basically taking the opportunity away from fans of a product who don't have a whole lot of money or are not willing to pay an insane extra "fuck you fee" and giving it to someone who has a lot of disposable income.

You're basically a reverse robin hood who also takes money for himself in the process. If that and making the world a tiny bit worse for your own comfort is fine for you, go with it, it's apparently legal for some reason I cannot fathom...

I really wanted to get the special edition of breath of the wild for example, but due to shitty scalpers I'll take the regular edition now....

Of course products not in high demand, like the wet wipes example are totally fine. Here you are basically offering a service, you are allowing people to buy something online they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

Chichikov · Feb 4, 2017

Shaanyboi said:
Scalpers are pieces of shit. You're not providing a service, you're not fulfilling a niche. You are literally just fucking taking advantage of people.

I wouldn't go as far as saying they're all pieces of shit, I'll never fault a person who does that to put food on the table and roof over their heads. But from an economic perspective, yeah, scalping is an unproductive activity, scalpers provide no service outside higher ticket price. They are parasites (again, in economic terms) who syphon money away from productive people, money that could've been spent on better things.

riotous · Feb 4, 2017

There is a "service" provided; but it's to the wealthy. With the scalping market, if you have the money, you can easily get prime tickets to pretty much every event and venue.

50 yard line seats to a playoff game? Can buy it right online.

Same for rare or limited products.

GreatestHits · Feb 4, 2017

Yeah, if you're buying up tickets just so you can re-sell them? THAT'S BUSINESS!!! (At least here in America)

Hey come on over, Donald Trump is our President. There's lots more where that came from....

Raitosaito · Feb 4, 2017

riotous said:
lol it's all good just thought it was funny.

Reselling isn't all that terrible or anything but I wouldn't say it's all that positive either; if 10 of an item is on sale it would be better if 10 people enjoyed that price. And for the store, they make a sale to 10 different people who they can make an impression on and maybe make more sales to later.

But it's not predatory or highly detrimental like scalping.

In general both reselling and scalping have become safer for consumers since a lot of it is done through venues that offer consumer protection like Amazon and EBay too.

I'm enjoying the discussion, and I'll agree on that front as well.

But let me play devil's advocate. So a really popular on the go oil brand is selling for a difference price online than in retail ( no idea why), and on Amazon itself it is sold out. A few people contacted me directly because they bought the item online from me before, and was willing to pay the price of what it was going online. Am I now helping those ten people, and also Amazon fulfillment center workers have more task to do? In effect having the same outcome you wanted.

I am still hurting those retail individuals though base on your example.

nekkid · Feb 4, 2017

A fool and their money are easily parted.

If you are so desperate that you can't wait for supply to increase and prices to drop, or you're incapable of teaching your kids patience, then I've got little sympathy for those who buy from scalpers.

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