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Woman dies after male gym employee refuses to enter ladies locker room
- Thread starter Camp Lo
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Worse than that, imagine being put on the sex offender list. Your life is pretty much over at that point.
And lol @ expecting minimum wage slaves to know cpr and first aid. That's not the sort of society we live in the US.
I don't think he SHOULD have done anything on his own except call 911 and probably keep the people calm. I feel bad for the guy, what a complete brain fart.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I wouldn't be completely shocked either. But if I saw someone collapse at Best Buy, I might yell for one of the employees to call 911 before I think about my own phone. I can honestly imagine that scenario, where outside of the home people look for an authority figure before they realize that they also have the power to assist.
I have slightly more sympathy for the women that were in the changing room since they were out of their element. They probably figured that employees are trained for that type of thing. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. The guy refusing to go in the women's locker room...I can't excuse as easily. It reeks of a dangerous thought process. Where someone is more afraid of breaking the rules than dealing with a dangerous situation.
If you were walking my your neighbor's house and saw they collapsed in the doorway, would you just keep walking or would you enter to assist? Would you be so afraid of getting some strange trespassing charge before your instinct to help a fellow human being kicked in? Dude lacked a little common sense. Who knows if his intervention mattered. I don't like dealing in those type of hypotheticals when we know the result ended so tragically. I just know he messed up, even if he wasn't sure how serious it was.
I don't think he should be charged with murder or anything, that's lunacy. But I think he should resign from the gym.
it did change. you're not supposed to look for a pulse, only for signs of life and whether or not the person is breathing normally. if that isn't the case you start CPR.
also @whoever posted this nonsense: drowning victims do not have a better chance to survive - since the cardiac arrest in a drowning victim is usually induced by hypoxia, the chance of survival is actually smaller than when having a cardiac arrest due to a heart attack.
I was never taught that. I was taught that if someone is in trouble you do everything you can to help. I've called 911 in the past when I've seen trouble in the past. If I was in that situation I'd have probably called 911 myself, Planet Fitness worker be damned.
So it's the person who came to the cashier's fault instead? C'mon, maybe she's just as wrong but his inaction is inexcusable.
your a maaaaaaaaaan.. (branded)
I've had two minimum wage jobs that paid for me to be CPR/First Aid certified. In many cases the state requires employees in certain jobs to be certified. A gym seems to be the kind of place that should fall under those requirements but clearly they dont.
He told them a woman was about to show up who could help them, he might have known she had cpr training, she then showed up around the same time he called 911, so my thought is maybe no one considered it until she showed up and told him what to do.
Valkyr Junkie
Member
Since she still had a pulse by the time the employee with CPR training arrived, wouldn't you not give her CPR? It's been a few years since my last training, but I seem to recall CPR is only for victims without a pulse. Not sure what anyone could have done in this case, but someone should have called 911 sooner.
scar tissue
Banned
Guy shoulda called 911. But the other woman there could've done the same. Both are morons, the guy maybe more so because he works there and should know how to deal with this kind of situation.
But I can't blame the guy for not going into the locker room.
He couldn't have done anything for the collapsed woman the other woman couldn't have done anyway, so why risk going in there and getting sued/fired?
It's not like he was a doctor or medic, right?
But I can't blame the guy for not going into the locker room.
He couldn't have done anything for the collapsed woman the other woman couldn't have done anyway, so why risk going in there and getting sued/fired?
It's not like he was a doctor or medic, right?
I can 100% blame that guy. 911 should have instantly been called and then did everything in his power to help the woman. This is a gym, it is not out of the ordinary to expect a scenario like this to occur
Or just called 911 immediately after being told what happened. We don't know a true timeline of events to know if he actually just waited there doing nothing for 5 minutes, or what exactly happened.
We don't know the full details, but he should have called 911 immediately after the women told him what happened. Did he do so? I don't know. We don't have a true timeline of events.
Valkyr Junkie
Member
If you do it right, yes. CPR from a layman wouldn't be necessary in this case however since she still had a pulse.
So if this happened somewhere else (like a hotel, school, or grocery store), he'd be excused?
I guess you haven't been in many gyms. I could get my phone out of the Locker faster than I could reach the front desk in the half dozen gyms I've used.
It's inexcusable if he took 5 minutes to call paramedics but let's not pretend the people who originally found her didn't mess up.
Of course not, I am saying it should be expected in a gym
autumnleaf
Member
At my gym it's very difficult to get a reception on your phone but they have a landline behind the front desk, and also a defibrillator, so getting whoever was at the front desk would be the first thing I would do.
Although I've also had the person behind the front desk ask me what the number is the for emergency services when they needed to call....so I wouldn't have much confidence.
it isn't required, it is just what happens in most of the cases (but most of the cases are older people, it's less likely to happen in young folks).
and again i'd like to remind people that you're not supposed to look for a pulse anymore. even nurses and doctors get that wrong if they're not used to these situations.
this is how you do it.
Woody Invincible
Banned
You call, you lose.
Where did I say that? It's not anyone's fault, but didn't you also want charge the cashier for murder?
Stop trying to put more blame on the cashier than he deserves. Also, if someone comes up to me and tells to call 911, I won't call right away until I see what's going on. I won't call 911 just because, and I think most people here won't call 911 unless they see for themselves what's going on.
Devolution
Member
Yeah but then he refused to do that much. Which is the problem. To me the failure is most definitely company policy though.
Why is it expected at a gym?
EDIT: (my point was that different places have different standards of care, and it would have been unreasonable to hold the expectations of a gym to that of every place on Earth. A gym? Yes, he probably should have done something considering the establishment and what goes on there. A motel? Probably shouldn't be held to the same expectations)
I would rather like to know if she was still breathing. People should check that before checking the pulse (and they probably shouldn't check for pulse at all anymore).
Anyway that guy should have called 911 immediately. And the company should a) teach the employees first aid stuff and b) change rules for such cases and c) teach employees what to do in such case. I guess the guy was in shock and also had no idea what to do.
RPGCrazied
Member
I don't think the company should be held accountable, but that employee needs a fine or some jail time. Not murder life in prison, but enough time to think how stupid he was, costed someone their life.
lol. That was great.
The cashier deserves that, but not the women who told him about the situation but also did not call 911?
RPGCrazied
Member
Maybe she didn't have a phone on her? She is at the gym ya know, and the cashier has a phone at the ready at the front desk. He could've called, would have took 5 seconds.
Man... I just couldn't imagine the guy being held on some criminal charges here. He didn't call but he didn't do anything to the woman. I don't know the law, is that even possible?
Did he refuse to call 911? He refused to go to the change room i can see, but it doesn't say he refused to call. It's just as likely that no one considered calling 911 right away, or everyone assumed someone else did it
Devolution
Member
Read what I bolded. He refused to see the situation for himself, i.e. go in the locker room. Which I blame on company policy.
Don't give me a maybe, give me a real reason. Why didn't she just pick up the cashier's phone if she didn't have one if it was urgent? Sure she shouldn't pick up the gym's phone because it doesn't belong to her, but if we're going to play that game then the cashier shouldn't go into the ladies' dressing room because he isn't a lady.
The cashier deserves no more blame than the women who told about the situation.
Ah, got ya.
Squirrel Killer
Member
It's new journalism and the internet, whatca gonna do?
Based on the NY Post article that all the other reports appear to be based on, the guy didn't know what to do (CPR I assume) and the gym didn't have a defibrillator (and someone certified to us it) on site as required by law. If that is in fact the law and they didn't have a defibrillator and someone who knew how to use it, then the gym has a legal mess on their hands. The company's policy on him going in to the women's locker room (or the employee's supposed "fear" of the women's locker room) isn't really at issue since he wouldn't have been any help in there. Too bad no news source can bother to do more than quote the plaintiff's attorney and sworn affidavit.
Depending on how the first women described the situation to the employee, (which is actually in question a bit since she describes what prompted her to go to the front desk as “I saw a woman’s arm drop to the floor, followed immediately by a loud snoring sound.”
then he might be in bit of trouble for not reacting quickly enough, but murder charges, OnPoint? You've got to be kidding. He was first contacted by the first woman at 5:17a, the police arrived at 5:28a. As for the other women being without phones, that doesn't really clear them unless they were somehow prohibited from asking the front desk employee, "May I use your phone to call 911 for a medical emergency?"I'm not even sure what point you are arguing with me
First it is expected as a human being to do everything in you power to help another who is in distress
I say especially a gym because people are purposely going to one to push their physical limits, it stands to reason that some will push beyond what their body can handle. Everyone working at a gym should be trained and certified for this scenario.
I worked in hotels growing up and while there are quite a few people with the proper training it is not realistic to expect the company to train all of their employees (i.e housekeeping) but anyone without certification was trained in the proper protocols on what to do in a situation like that
not psycho
Member
Poorly written and ambiguous article (can't even tell when the female employee showed up), here is a better one:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/left_to_die_in_the_ladies_room_sqPmXV8R5nElvtf08DYrJI
The female employee didn't get there until 8 minutes after the front desk was alerted, and the 911 call had already started so she was not the one that told him to call. The call itself was 4.5 minutes after being alerted, not after the collapse.
Edit: still a little confusing about the gym member and the cell phone. The article says she eventually talked to 911, but was it her cellphone? Did she have it the whole time? From everything else she did, it seems weird for her not to call.
Actually, it seems like the second gym member was the first person to bring up 911. How the first two apparently didn't think of it is crazy.
It was a huge screw up by the guy not to call immediately.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/left_to_die_in_the_ladies_room_sqPmXV8R5nElvtf08DYrJI
The female employee didn't get there until 8 minutes after the front desk was alerted, and the 911 call had already started so she was not the one that told him to call. The call itself was 4.5 minutes after being alerted, not after the collapse.
Edit: still a little confusing about the gym member and the cell phone. The article says she eventually talked to 911, but was it her cellphone? Did she have it the whole time? From everything else she did, it seems weird for her not to call.
Actually, it seems like the second gym member was the first person to bring up 911. How the first two apparently didn't think of it is crazy.
It was a huge screw up by the guy not to call immediately.
Dark Octave
Banned
Why didn't Stephanie Dick do anything? Was she not capable somehow?
Valkyr Junkie
Member
I fail to see how him confirming the situation with his own eyes would have helped at all. This "confirmation" likely would have cost at least 2 minutes, at which point he would not be able to assist anymore than the women that witnessed the victim fall. In this situation, the only thing anyone should be worried about is calling 911.
If your house is burning down, you don't run next door to your neighbor who is washing your car and ask for his hose. In emergencies, contacting emergency services is your first and last step.
Damn. Yeah he should have called immediately. What was he thinking?
Devolution
Member
Of course he should call first, I'm not disputing that. But the idea that he couldn't do that and then go in because "he's not allowed in there" is going to cause more problems then it solves.
This isn't true. I'm just a first year law student but one is only expected to assist someone to whom they owe a duty to (because not acting is considering negligent). The expectations vary and are not constant.
He wasn't saying anything about law.
Updating to OP
Squirrel Killer
Member
It was 5:17am.
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