disappeared
Banned
I don't know what's more depressing about this news; that it's actually being made, or that people are going to profit from it.
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Somewhat murderous scumbag PMC Blackwater gets an FPS (360-Zombie Studios)
- Thread starter FoneBone
- Start date
LaserBuddha
Member
bishoptl said:
We all know about the incident in question involving a handful of Blackwater employees.
Since you've got a chip on your shoulder about this, how about you explain how this characterization of the entire organization and everyone in it is accurate. Do you even know what PMC's do 99.9% of the time?
Or I guess it's just a coincidence that no one offers up reasons why this bullshit is accurate.
AlimNassor
Banned
How exactly is Blackwater somehow full of murdering lunatics like gaf claims? Where are the links proving this? Have they been charged?
bengraven
Member
Was the title changed? LOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide#Ongoing_controversies
LMGT4U
AlimNassor said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide#Ongoing_controversies
LMGT4U
LaserBuddha
Member
AlimNassor said:
It isn't. This is the usual sensationalist pitchfork bullshit where everyone silently agrees to be intellectually dishonest. Get enough people to go along and you don't feel threatened enough to actually face the truth.
IrishNinja
Member
bishoptl said:
just wiki'd them, holy shit @ the child prostitution charge.
3 months of research on PMCs for a (now defunct) title in development two years ago. Calling Blackwater slimy is an insult to slime worldwide, and your attempt to minimize Blackwater's direct involvement in millions of dollars in government bribes, civilian murders, lying to investigative official re: so-called insurgent attacks, child prostitution, you name it - would be laughable if it wasn't so pitiful.LaserBuddha said:
Still, I'm sure that the only reason why this IP is being used is due to the much higher percentage of employees who aren't involved in the action, right? Administrative duties, paper pushing - riveting stuff for a videogame. Can't wait to see gameplay trailers.
The rot started at the top, and he's at it again - this time in the UAE. This after stating that he wanted to retire and become a teacher. I guess technically he's not lying.LaserBuddha said:
Your turn.
MrMephistoX
Member
Glorious Mission (Chinese military shooter vs whitey) is like Nintendogs by comparison on my outage O meter. Fuck those right wing murdering rapist pigs at Blackwater.
IrishNinja
Member
DiscoJer said:
uh....can you elaborate on this?
milkyjay20
Member
i never thought i'd get such warm feelings for a mod
LaserBuddha
Member
bishoptl said:
Prince (and however many other of his lackeys) seems slimy as hell. It does not change the fact that 99% of the time, Blackwater has simply provided armed protection to civilians overseas (a lot of people here probably think they're mercenaries over there). Like I said, this characterization of the entire organization is no more valid than saying the same about the military or the government itself. I wouldn't use all of those things you listed as evidence unless they were proven true, btw. I'll be first in line to condemn them of anything with sufficient evidence. I don't play the whole "They're scum so proof doesn't matter" game.
As far as the UAE thing - Disgusting but Erik Prince is no longer head of Xe.
So you still haven't justified the false characterization of the entire organization that I'm objecting to. In fact, you seem to imply that the only ones who aren't corrupt murderers are the pencil pushers, so you're perpetuating the stupidity. Your turn.
EDIT: Actually, you know what? I'm done. I'm here objecting to ridiculous exaggerations, not as a fan/defender of Blackwater, but you seem to want to act as if I am.
I know. People here are using the one incident they know about to call Blackwater a bunch of paid murderers. Something which is absolutely false.Margalis said:
Blackwater has not just been involved in "one incident." There have been all sorts of lawsuits against them, and there would be a lot more if Bush had not essentially gotten them off the hook by constructing legal protections for them and making it virtually impossible to hold them accountable for wrong doing in Iraq.
Blackwater has been accused of vastly overcharging the US government, smuggling weapons to terrorist organizations, multiple incidents involving killing civilians, killing people willing to inform against Blackwater, using US funds to pay for hookers, providing false statements to investigators, impeding hearings, etc. Blackwater has paid over $40 million in fines to the US government and probably millions more in various lawsuit settlements.
That doesn't mean every single person working for them is a slimeball murderer but the organization as a whole is not something to be celebrated.
Blackwater has been accused of vastly overcharging the US government, smuggling weapons to terrorist organizations, multiple incidents involving killing civilians, killing people willing to inform against Blackwater, using US funds to pay for hookers, providing false statements to investigators, impeding hearings, etc. Blackwater has paid over $40 million in fines to the US government and probably millions more in various lawsuit settlements.
That doesn't mean every single person working for them is a slimeball murderer but the organization as a whole is not something to be celebrated.
IrishNinja
Member
bishoptl said:
....
fuck me, this is the most depressing thread in gaming. fucking awful, dropped my opinion of their efforts tremendously. now i gotta go look up to see if/how they got prosecuted.
Seems? Well, a journey of a thousand miles, etc.LaserBuddha said:
Where are you pulling this number from?LaserBuddha said:
We can wait for the numerous lawsuits, criminal and civil trials to finish if you like. In the meantime, I'll call it how I and other left-wing blogs like the Wall Street Journal see it, and say that where there's choking smoke, there's a massive conflagration.LaserBuddha said:
While we're at it, I'm eagerly awaiting the upcoming whistleblower lawsuit by those former employees against Blackwater regarding fraudulent bill submissions for services rendered in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as excessive force in performance of those duties.
nah, I think I'm good.LaserBuddha said:
disappeared
Banned
It'll be marketed in an "epic" vein of a Call of Duty, and it'll sell.
Metal Gear?!
Member
Nonsense. In Modern Warfare 2, Blackwater were your targets.Witchfinder General said:
LaserBuddha
Member
Nice attempt to pick at a meaningless bit of semantics. Yes, he IS slimy. You know what I meant.bishoptl said:
It's what the government and others pay them to do, and it's a matter of fact that that's what they spend the vast majority of the time doing. The exceptions that have led to the charges are just that, exceptions. I used "99%" to drive home that point. It's probably higher than that.
I never said I need a trial to complete. I'm just not going to put stock in any charges that don't have any evidence. Absolutely any charge that has concrete evidence is one I'll believe in. Anything that's only an accusation is only an accusation to me, regardless of whether it's Mother Teresa or Blackwater or Osama bin Laden.
So you're defending the idea that Blackwater are a ""bunch of murderers", but you decline to actually do so? Since that's the one point I was here to refute (yes, despite you pretending that I'm here to "minimize" any number of other charges, it's not true), why are you even debating me?
Wait a minute, I was supposed to be done with this. smh
chaostrophy
Member
If the game was about killing Blackwater mercenaries with Erik Prince as the final boss, I'd totally play it.
You refuse to acknowledge that the charges against the company - no matter how numerous - have any merit until the trials follow through to their conclusion. If you're willing to equate Mother Theresa and Osama Bin Laden - your words, not mine - how on earth do you expect any sort of rational discussion?
I just grabbed some links in case there are people not entirely familiar with Blackwater/Xe and don't want to burden themselves with leaving GAF to learn more:
Blackwater uses armed force 'twice as often as other Iraq firms'
Iraqis speak of random killings committed by private Blackwater guards
F.B.I. Says Guards Killed 14 Iraqis Without Cause
U.S. Examines Whether Blackwater Tried Bribery
Blackwater staff 'violated weapons law'
That's an extremely narrow selection, there's plenty more where that came from. Blackwater/Xe has a rather colorful history.
And if you're just skimming the titles, be sure not to miss this delightful quote from the second link:
And of course, Wikipedia's got your back if you want a longer but still not comprehensive overview of their various activities.
Blackwater uses armed force 'twice as often as other Iraq firms'
Iraqis speak of random killings committed by private Blackwater guards
F.B.I. Says Guards Killed 14 Iraqis Without Cause
U.S. Examines Whether Blackwater Tried Bribery
Blackwater staff 'violated weapons law'
That's an extremely narrow selection, there's plenty more where that came from. Blackwater/Xe has a rather colorful history.
And if you're just skimming the titles, be sure not to miss this delightful quote from the second link:
And of course, Wikipedia's got your back if you want a longer but still not comprehensive overview of their various activities.
LaserBuddha
Member
Quote me saying this, or don't accuse me of it again. A bunch of these charges have evidence to support them. Good evidence is good enough for me. Some of them seem to simply be verbal accusations (from my brief overview) thus I wouldn't assume they're truth yet.bishoptl said:
I didn't equate them. Stop making things up. What I SAID was, accusations by themselves are just accusations to me, and it doesn't matter whether it's against the best or worst of people. My standard of proof does not change because of how much I like or dislike the accused.
If you're willing to fabricate thoughts of mine that you'd like to believe exist, how can YOU expect any sort of rational discussion?
Sure - but not in the court of public opinion and especially not with varying degrees of evidence. Choosing to ignore the massive amount of shady shit performed by Blackwater requires a disassociation from reality left to much more forgiving individuals.KHarvey16 said:
SRG01 said:
They are already guilty of crimes that haven't been successfully prosecuted? Pay very close attention to the specific argument being made and the specific words being chosen. BW has done bad things. That does not mean BW enters a trial for a new charge less innocent than anyone else.
mambadragon
Banned
This is really strange. Even the articles I've read that show the benefits of a PMC like Blackwater versus the US military (they're are some, but it's always financial) always do so cautiously. Celebrating a PMC as this game must do is just strange.
LaserBuddha
Member
bishoptl said:
That's a pretty black-and-white thing. If the evidence is there, then it's there, and the answer is yes.
You keep selectively quoting me, purposefully avoiding the times I've stated that I'm only taking offense to the false characterization of Blackwater as a bunch of murderers, because of a murky incident involving only a handful of them. The only reason I can imagine that you're doing so is because you can't qualify that false characterization either. So you divert by bringing up other charges against Blackwater, and take it a step further by lying about me defending/downplaying those charges. Of course, I've brought up the disservice you're doing to me there, and you dodge it.
You want to argue against me, but don't want to argue against my ONE and ONLY stance here. I don't understand why.
Honestly, I don't want to argue about this. I have no desire to defend any legitimate criticism of Blackwater. My point is self-evidently true, and the false generalization I'm railing against is self-evidently false. I'm doing myself a disservice by acting like it can even be argued (and doing myself an additional disservice by involving myself in a discussion where no one wants to face what I'm saying).
LB, my take is that a corporate culture that actively encouraged and rewarded this kind of activity - sanctioned from the top, mind - is one that deserves to be called out for it. I'm not just talking about the 17 dead civilians. I'm also referring to Blackwater contractors allegedly placing their own people in harm's way as part of personal vendettas (the Helvenston case that's under appeal). Shooting an unarmed civilian while being acquitted of shooting two others in the same incident. There's a reason why the company changed their name - Blackwater is a PR disaster, and it's interesting why anyone would think it an IP worth pursuing with the amount of blood and controversy surrounding it.
I'll continue to call things - and Xe/Blackwater - how I see it.
I'll continue to call things - and Xe/Blackwater - how I see it.
Well that's all right thenLaserBuddha said:
nephilimdj
Member
SRG01 said:
Problem is USA forced the first Iraq government to make companies like blackwater free from prosecution. loophole was closed after a year or 2, and all these stories from blackwater murdering and raping continued.
Cant feel pity for them, This game is bad taste.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Not trying to take sides, but when has the gaming community ever balked at playing badguys anyway?
LaserBuddha said:
Your intentions here are the only thing that's murky and no one is going to take you seriously when 99% of your claims are obviously false. Do some research; you're making a complete fool of yourself throughout the thread by downplaying all these known and documented atrocities.
There are a lot of hardcore bros who probably jack off to the idea of war and still wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole. Anyone who would is probably an amoeba themselves, utterly ignorant like yourself or has more love for the genre than they do self-respect.