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League of Legends World Championship 2017 |SEP 23-NOV 4|

T

TharpDaddy

Member
cHinzo said:
Would C9 getting at least the semis make them the best NA team they had?
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I think the one that comes to mind is the TSM that went against SSW and took a game off them. Wasn't that the only game they lost for the rest of the tournament? That version of TSM was really good and might be the best NA team.

I don't think this version of C9 is all that great. They might take down WE, but they don't feel like a powerhouse team. They have really clear strengths and weaknesses and their weaknesses are exploitable. I think my main worry is that Sneaky and Smoothie aren't a very dominant lane, and the Worlds meta is only moving more towards ADC focus. I don't know that C9 can really play around their bot lane (at least early on) in the same way that a lot of the other teams can. Sneaky is a great team fighter but he's not really a person you look at to hard carry like UZI, Rekkles, etc.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Kotetsu534 said:
I suspect how seriously and professionally TSM take the game makes it hard for them to play freely and comfortably with risky compositions. You look at teams like ROX/LZ, Misfits, Fnatic, Immortals, old C9 (maybe current C9?) and there's a genuine sense of enjoyment or fearlessness in how they approach the game. They want to win but if they lose, it's not the end of the world. It's completely impossible for me to imagine TSM just snapping in an off-meta pocket pick in a meaningful game or going for a high pressure style unless they had a ton of practice games with it.
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I agree with these weaknesses, but that's entirely what coaches are for in real sports, and it's definitely always been Parth's weakness. They need a coach who will tell them after that first game against Flash Wolves "hey even though you won, that game was shit and here's all the reasons why. Either do X, Y, and Z next time or I'll bench you."

Does anybody think Parth was that coach? Because when I think of good League coaches, I think of people who have this quality. Kkoma would bench Faker if he had to.

TSM's international problems are a mixture of different things, but one of them has been their lack of a real coach since at least before Loco. It's interesting that with the largest fanbase, TSM essentially plays like Flyquest internationally (in that it seems like the only people making large decisions are the five people on stage instead of any org member).
 
Dargor

Dargor

Member
AntraxSuicide said:
I agree with these weaknesses, but that's entirely what coaches are for in real sports, and it's definitely always been Parth's weakness. They need a coach who will tell them after that first game against Flash Wolves "hey even though you won, that game was shit and here's all the reasons why. Either do X, Y, and Z next time or I'll bench you."

Does anybody think Parth was that coach? Because when I think of good League coaches, I think of people who have this quality. Kkoma would bench Faker if he had to.

TSM's international problems are a mixture of different things, but one of them has been their lack of a real coach since at least before Loco. It's interesting that with the largest fanbase, TSM essentially plays like Flyquest internationally (in that it seems like the only people making large decisions are the five people on stage instead of any org member).
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The problem is that in this championship you can have only one replacement, so you can't just bench people.

Since you mentioned Faker, he doesnt have a replacement, IIRC, they brought a replacement for Peanut, their JG.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
I assume SKT's coach is going to savagely beat them over the course of the next week, or whatever it is he does to get them back on track when they're down two games in a series in LCK and go for a long commercial break.

If not, I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see them lose. They looked like utter trash during their second day of Groups games.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Dargor said:
The problem is that in this championship you can have only one replacement, so you can't just bench people.

Since you mentioned Faker, he doesnt have a replacement, IIRC, they brought a replacement for Peanut, their JG.
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Well yeah, but you can threaten it domestically. Especially with academy teams coming soon. Essentially a good coach would ask, "if you aren't going to play according to the game plan, why are you my starter?"

Now if the game plan is shit, that's another thing. But that would also be on the coach.
 
Dargor

Dargor

Member
WaterAstro said:
I think the obvious is SKT vs LZ lol.
Click to expand...

Its just a hunch, but I feel that WE will beat LZ, though I also wouldn't be surprised if they lost lol

AntraxSuicide said:
Well yeah, but you can threaten it domestically. Especially with academy teams coming soon. Essentially a good coach would ask, "if you aren't going to play according to the game plan, why are you my starter?"

Now if the game plan is shit, that's another thing. But that would also be on the coach.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean, though I think its easier for Faker to bench his coach instead. You don't just take Faker out of the team lol
 
T

TharpDaddy

Member
NSESN said:
SKT looks worse than RNG. Unless they improve in this BO5 vs MSF I think you can't assume they will be i the finals
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Yeah SKT has had 2 close games against EDG and flat out lost against AHQ. To be honest, Longzhu looks like the only airtight korean team at the moment.

Then again it's SKT, they'll probably go super saiyan after a week to train for a bo5.
 
L

Leezard

Member
RNG looked very good but it's just so hard to count SKT out. They are definitely weaker than previous years though.
 
C

clemenx

Banned
My yearly complaint about how uncondensed Worlds is. I absolutely hate that we need 2 weeks after groups. And Worlds lasting more than a month is my least favorite thing about it.

I understand they want big Arenas for the weekends in different cities but still.
 
V

Vimes

Member
clemenx said:
My yearly complaint about how uncondensed Worlds is. I absolutely hate that we need 2 weeks after groups. And Worlds lasting more than a month is my least favorite thing about it.

I understand they want big Arenas for the weekends in different cities but still.
Click to expand...

It's the major thing that differentiates the game from other esports for me.

It's the closest thing esports gets to the World Cup and I love it. I'm not sure I would care about LoL at all otherwise; but instead I watch the spring and summer splits all year in anticipation of Worlds.
 
E

Estellex

Member
C9 got really lucky getting WE. C9 should be able to beat WE and make it to the semi-finals.

In fact it should be a pretty easy win for C9.
 
H

Hydrophobic

Member
Estellex said:
C9 got really lucky getting WE. C9 should be able to beat WE and make it to the semi-finals.

In fact it should be a pretty easy win for C9.
Click to expand...

I don't agree that it'll be an easy win, but I agree that WE is the luckiest draw C9 could get because they're probably the weakest first seed out of groups.
 
K

Kotetsu534

Member
Estellex said:
WE got 3-1 by G2 during MSI.
Click to expand...

We're at the point where the gap between the best NA, EU and CN teams is determined by who's mastered each patch or has bootcamped more efficiently. CN are unsurprisingly performing very well at home, allowing for EDG's combustion (much like EU did so well in 2015). C9/WE can go any way except for a C9 stomp and I wouldn't be surprised. The best Korean teams are still out of reach in Bo5 though.
 
R

RelaxedOtter

Member
Wow, SSG really dominated LZ. LZ looking like a completely different team than what they looked like in groups. Did not see this as a 3-0 result in SSG's favour.
 
N

NSESN

Member
Didn't expect that. Of course SSG faced a much stronger group but still.
Makes you think how unlucky G2 was. They could probabbly qualify in any other group.
 
S

SuperBowser

Member
I think both EDG and G2 were incredibly unfortunate this worlds. Both looked stronger than multiple #2 seeds this year, but hey, that's the way it goes.
 
T

Terbinator

Member
Have the semi-finals already been drawn in terms of winner of who plays who, or will there be a random draw after all QFs have finished?
 
S

SuperBowser

Member
Terbinator said:
Have the semi-finals already been drawn in terms of winner of who plays who, or will there be a random draw after all QFs have finished?
Click to expand...

Yeah, teams stay on their side of the bracket. Effectively, this makes it impossible for a #1 seed to play the #2 seed from the same group of groups stage until finals.
 
K

Kotetsu534

Member
Superb drafting to counter LZ's approach today from Samsung. Hard engage to blow up LZ's squishy carries and Shen to counter their early aggression in games 2 and 3. And a sneaky counterpick to Taliyah in Lissandra for when it got taken before 2nd ban phase. LZ couldn't deal with a team who could execute repeated flanks and defend the early aggression. It all looked so good when Bdd was destroying Crown early in game 1, but Ambition got the ganks in to both mid and top to slow things down and they baron baited perfectly later in the game.

Game 2 was a classic case of disrespecting the defense of Shen and Taric, and the collapse power of Taliyah on the bot lane under tower. Game 3 similar (but the 8 minute fight at blue buff where Bdd barely missed out on FB, Cuzz was OOM after the Shen ult countered his flash-E gank in bot lane, and Ambition somehow escaped with the blue was unlucky for LZ). Cuzz also, for the first time since the middle of summer split, was exposed as a bit green by Ambition. Caught too far forward a few times and punished, losing ward control of large chunks of the map. And comitting to ganks when Shen R was up.

Hope this team stays together and Bdd and Cuzz can become more mature, calculated players, but their bubble got well and truly popped today. Samsung are one series away from making back to back Worlds finals with the same roster.
 
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