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Uproxx: Vince Staples’ Eminem And Redman Comparison Spark Debate On Race And Aging

M

Mr. X

Member
http://uproxx.com/realtalk/vince-staples-eminem-redman-race-aging-hip-hop/

Read while article but a few choice quotes

I won’t rehash the “white privilege” discussion, because I’ve already done that, nor do I want to focus on how Vince deftly pointed to the many, many, many protest songs that had to be overlooked to assign all the hyperbolic praise Eminem received to that verse, because I hit that one too. Instead, I noticed one of Vince’s points not only perfectly summed up his argument, but also touched on a larger issue in hip-hop as well.

In response to his own supporter who tweeted that “If Eminem was black he wouldn’t be regarded anywhere near the top 10 all time,” Vince pointed out that “If Eminem was black he would be Redman. I love them both very much.”
Click to expand...

But an interesting, overlooked aspect of that privilege is that it also affords Eminem the leeway to grow older in a genre nearly obsessed with youth, without having to evolve musically or substantially change his image, unlike countless Black rappers who have come to be viewed as washed-up, old school, or corny.
Click to expand...

This article is on point with the observations.
 
G

Guevara

Member
But an interesting, overlooked aspect of that privilege is that it also affords Eminem the leeway to grow older in a genre nearly obsessed with youth, without having to evolve musically or substantially change his image, unlike countless Black rappers who have come to be viewed as washed-up, old school, or corny.

Counterpoint: Jay-Z
 
S

sasliquid

Member
Between this Vinces music being in Pacific Rim and Black Panther and wrecking altrightany fantano he's having a hell of a week
 
ebullientprism

ebullientprism

Member
It does cut both ways though.

If Eminem was black, his song/protest would absolutely 100% be ignored. Or they would find a narrative to spin it. Look at all the NFL shit.

Sometimes it NEEDS to be a person from the non marginalized group. There is value in that.
 
T

torre_avenue

Banned
Guevara said:
But an interesting, overlooked aspect of that privilege is that it also affords Eminem the leeway to grow older in a genre nearly obsessed with youth, without having to evolve musically or substantially change his image, unlike countless Black rappers who have come to be viewed as washed-up, old school, or corny.

Counterpoint: Jay-Z
Click to expand...
Is your counterpoint stating Jay hasn't changed his image or evolved musically and still succeeds?

I mean, see 4:44. Probably one of the biggest shifts tonally, musically, and lyrically in Jay's career, and it's also one of the most critically acclaimed albums of the year
 
B

bobbychalkers

Member
Guevara said:
But an interesting, overlooked aspect of that privilege is that it also affords Eminem the leeway to grow older in a genre nearly obsessed with youth, without having to evolve musically or substantially change his image, unlike countless Black rappers who have come to be viewed as washed-up, old school, or corny.

Counterpoint: Jay-Z
Click to expand...
Until 4:44
 
S

Some Nobody

Junior Member
1.) I feel like (could be wrong) Em's made this comparison himself.
2.) Redman should be held in higher regard.
3.) Em's peak is still incredible and better than most rappers.
4.) If you try to downgrade Em at his peak 'cause he's white then I can't trust your opinion 'cause you're willing to tell me about substandard shit 'cause it's "groundbreaking".
5.) Having said that Em's still not in my Top 5.
6.) All the angry white folks coming at Vince was embarrassing. Vince said nothing wrong--that freestyle was buttcheeks and Em's done way fucking better.
7.) This article's right, and Em needs to evolve same as everyone else. Life is Good was one of Nas' best albums 'cause he was willing to grow and change. Where tf is Em's Life is Good, yo.

ebullientprism said:
It does cut both ways though.

If Eminem was black, his song/protest would absolutely 100% be ignored. Or they would find a narrative to spin it. Look at all the NFL shit.

Sometimes it NEEDS to be a person from the non marginalized group. There is value in that.
Click to expand...

Valid point. We can't say "People from the group doing the oppressing NEED to speak up" then get mad when that voice carries. That's why we wanted them to speak up in the first damn place!

I just wish that song was better lmao.
 
A

Acorn

Member
Guevara said:
But an interesting, overlooked aspect of that privilege is that it also affords Eminem the leeway to grow older in a genre nearly obsessed with youth, without having to evolve musically or substantially change his image, unlike countless Black rappers who have come to be viewed as washed-up, old school, or corny.

Counterpoint: Jay-Z
Click to expand...
Nas, Wu etc etc
 
T

torre_avenue

Banned
Perfect Blue said:
No lies detected. Em has always been a fraud.

Summertime '06 > Eminem's career
Click to expand...
This is the kind of thing that's gonna cause this whole article to be ignored since it just generates a flame war where Em stans will come in and say "nuh-uh!!!1!" and hip-hop heads will advocate for Vince and then it'll go on and the purpose of the article will be ignored.

For all intents and purposes, Vince is right, but is it wrong for Eminem to use his platform to do more in 5 minutes than all the underground rappers could do in a year?
 
C

Crimsonclaw111

Member
Perfect Blue said:
No lies detected. Em has always been a fraud.

Summertime '06 > Eminem's career
Click to expand...
Always? SSLP, MMLP and TES are all classics.

It's true though dude has been pretty meh for over a decade, only showing through in collaborations.

Edit: regarding the article, it isn't wrong. Most if not all other rappers would've fallen off by now, but eminem is still pumping out singles and pop collaborations all the damn time.
 
A

apieceofstrange

Member
Guevara said:
But an interesting, overlooked aspect of that privilege is that it also affords Eminem the leeway to grow older in a genre nearly obsessed with youth, without having to evolve musically or substantially change his image, unlike countless Black rappers who have come to be viewed as washed-up, old school, or corny.

Counterpoint: Jay-Z
Click to expand...

They specifically bring up Jay evolving in the article:

Meanwhile, recent albums from Jay-Z, Nas, and Kanye West — the only rappers who’ve really had anything remotely approaching the same level of relevance over time that Eminem has (and Nas’ status here is pretty iffy, considering the way Lonzo Ball’s comments reveal how younger listeners feel about his standing) — have all been lauded as departures from prior material, garnering critical acclaim for tackling “grown man” topics such as fatherhood, marriage, fiscal responsibility, and legacy. They’ve had to; anything less is considered stagnancy for most rappers, but somehow, Eminem is still making rape jokes and threatening celebrities and being hailed as “the best rapper of all time.”
Click to expand...
 
G

Glix

Member
ebullientprism said:
It does cut both ways though.

If Eminem was black, his song/protest would absolutely 100% be ignored. Or they would find a narrative to spin it. Look at all the NFL shit.

Sometimes it NEEDS to be a person from the non marginalized group. There is value in that.
Click to expand...

Additionally, I think Em has a lot of MAGA type fans, moreso than an African American artist would, so he was messing with his own money, and getting the message to people that others might not be able to.

Regardless, it is an interesting conversation to have and an interesting read.
 
B

bobbychalkers

Member
And since they brought him up, I'll repeat what I said in the other thread. Tyler the Creator has shown more growth as an artist from his first album to his last than Eminem in half the time.

ebullientprism said:
It does cut both ways though.

If Eminem was black, his song/protest would absolutely 100% be ignored. Or they would find a narrative to spin it. Look at all the NFL shit.

Sometimes it NEEDS to be a person from the non marginalized group. There is value in that.
Click to expand...
And I agree with this. It made sense for him to do this freestyle since his position in hip hop pretty much draws the MAGA crown in. He needed to rebuke them personally.
 
M

MartyStu

Member
bobbychalkers said:
Until 4:44
Click to expand...

Which JUST happened. Em is still young enough for his to come.

I agree with the article, but feel that I must point out that both Em and Hove both retained their popularity throughout their careers, and thus never really had to change much.

The argument that Em has remained popular in part because he is white IS a very good point though.
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
Yep. Which is why Marshall probably feels even more compelled to call out his racist fans, his numbers are inflated by virtue of his whitness. It undermines his placement in hip hop.
 
G

Gattsu25

Banned
Guevara said:
But an interesting, overlooked aspect of that privilege is that it also affords Eminem the leeway to grow older in a genre nearly obsessed with youth, without having to evolve musically or substantially change his image, unlike countless Black rappers who have come to be viewed as washed-up, old school, or corny.

Counterpoint: Jay-Z
Click to expand...
They covered this:
Meanwhile, recent albums from Jay-Z, Nas, and Kanye West — the only rappers who’ve really had anything remotely approaching the same level of relevance over time that Eminem has (and Nas’ status here is pretty iffy, considering the way Lonzo Ball’s comments reveal how younger listeners feel about his standing) — have all been lauded as departures from prior material, garnering critical acclaim for tackling “grown man” topics such as fatherhood, marriage, fiscal responsibility, and legacy. They’ve had to; anything less is considered stagnancy for most rappers, but somehow, Eminem is still making rape jokes and threatening celebrities and being hailed as “the best rapper of all time.”
Click to expand...
 
A

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
White people give preference to another white person in a genre dominated by non white people. Seems pretty cut and dry.
 
O

old manatee

Banned
I've never been an Eminem fan, but he deserves the praise for that song. A lot of artists have dumped on Trump, but Eminem has a lot of racist white fans and he told them specifically to fuck off. I can't think of other entertainers who have taken it to their fans like that.
 
U

UnemployedVillain

Member
But an interesting, overlooked aspect of that privilege is that it also affords Eminem the leeway to grow older in a genre nearly obsessed with youth, without having to evolve musically or substantially change his image, unlike countless Black rappers who have come to be viewed as washed-up, old school, or corny.
Click to expand...

Uhh what Eminem are they listening to? Eminem's music is significantly different and drastically toned down compared to what it was when he started.
 
W

Wiped89

Member
ebullientprism said:
It does cut both ways though.

If Eminem was black, his song/protest would absolutely 100% be ignored. Or they would find a narrative to spin it. Look at all the NFL shit.

Sometimes it NEEDS to be a person from the non marginalized group. There is value in that.
Click to expand...

I don't think that is true at all.

If Kanye West released that protest video it would have got a LOT of attention.

Eminem is not black. Does that make it wrong for him to use his platform to say something meaningful and valid about Trump and about serious race relation issues? No.
 
M

MartyStu

Member
Wiped89 said:
I don't think that is true at all.

If Kanye West released that protest video it would have got a LOT of attention.

Eminem is not black. Does that make it wrong for him to use his platform to say something meaningful and valid about Trump and about serious race relation issues? No.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I still think it is good when people who theoretically have nothing to gain cast their lot in with us anyway.

bobbychalkers said:
Is he though? Jay-Z is only two years older than Eminem.
Click to expand...

I think if Em does nothing within the next 5 - 10 years, you will have a point. I think there is a good chance he won't, but fair is fair.
 
T

tmdorsey

Member
I feel like people who call Em a fraud or overrated have only listen to his studio albums.

For the record both him and Redman are in my top 5.
 
U

UnemployedVillain

Member
Wiped89 said:
I don't think that is true at all.

If Kanye West released that protest video it would have got a LOT of attention.
Click to expand...

We already had Beyonce basically causing racists to catch feelings with her "politically charged" videos, so I agree with you. It doesn't have to be someone from the non-marginalized group. It's probably just because Eminem is VASTLY more known than some of the other black artists releasing protest songs that he's getting more attention
 
B

blakep267

Member
Guevara said:
But an interesting, overlooked aspect of that privilege is that it also affords Eminem the leeway to grow older in a genre nearly obsessed with youth, without having to evolve musically or substantially change his image, unlike countless Black rappers who have come to be viewed as washed-up, old school, or corny.

Counterpoint: Jay-Z
Click to expand...
Eh I mean Jay is kinda washed from the standpoint of the newer gen. He still gets respect and all but just like you respect your dad, you don't think he's cool.
 
E

Exodust

Banned
Eminem did call Redman the number one rapper ever in one of his songs. Honestly his Slim Shady persona is basically a rip off of Redman when ripping off Nas and AZ didn't work out(look up Infinite).

Redman is top 10 all time worthy IMO, though. Em, not so much.
 
E

Extra Sauce

Member
I think it goes back to Em being massively popular in large part because he's white, and that level of popularity guarantees he will never fade into obscurity.

Red Man was never even close to as popular.

Yeah it is a race thing, but not sure about the age thing.
 
M

MartyStu

Member
Extra Sauce said:
I think it's more to do with Em being more massively popular because he's white, and that level popularity affords him the luxury of never fading into obscurity... ever. He is set for life.

Red Man was never even close to as popular.

Yeah it is a race thing, but not sure about the age thing.
Click to expand...

The age thing spins off of the race thing. The age is mostly used as a demarcation.
 
B

barit

Member
Poor Em. First his color was a problem to get into the game (haha look at that white boy who wants to rap). Now his color is all the reason why he has become fame anyway. He even said the exact same shit on White America.

Maybe he is just good at this? And maybe he had super luck with Dre and Rosenberg when it all started?
 
G

GuitarAtomik

Member
1G7BWZX.png


lol
 
BadAss2961

BadAss2961

Member
Perfect Blue said:
No lies detected. Em has always been a fraud.
Click to expand...
Nah... The thing about Em is he reaches an audience no black rapper can because he's white. That makes him inherently overrated in the rap game as a whole, but it doesn't mean he's undeserving of being hailed as one of the greats. People forget that on the flipside of his marketing advantages, it's not easy getting Eminem's kind of credibility as a white rapper -- especially before he came along. He's greatly respected on both sides whether you're a part-time 'I can relate to this guy but not so much the others' type of fan, or a real enthusiast.
 
D

DarknessTear

Banned
People on my twitter make fun of Eminem's age and call him a washed up old man. I had to unfollow a bunch of people because it was clear why they were saying it.
 
D

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
ebullientprism said:
It does cut both ways though.

If Eminem was black, his song/protest would absolutely 100% be ignored. Or they would find a narrative to spin it. Look at all the NFL shit.

Sometimes it NEEDS to be a person from the non marginalized group. There is value in that.
Click to expand...

"If I was black, I would have sold half, I ain't have to graduate from Lincoln High School to know that."
 
J

JWiLL

Banned
It's funny...here in Toronto our most popular rock station "Edge 102" will occasionally play an Eminem song. There's no reason for it other than the fact that he's white.

It wasn't even always "Lose Yourself" because that could be considered "rock-ish". It's not like they ever played 99 Problems. Literally just because white.
 
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