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Better Call Saul S3 |OT| Gus Who's Back - Mondays 10/9c on AMC
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
Human Trashcan
Banned
Why is that?
Zepp Twofist
Member
But they did set up his ability for him to quickly engineer a scam out of pure spite and bitterness in the previous scene with him and Kim at the bar. The only difference was that this time Kim wasn't there to stop him from acting it out.
Dirtyshubb
Member
Well like Jimmy said, he spent years genuinely loving and caring for his brother through his mental illness only to find out that his brother was the one holding back his career for years out of resentment.
Jimmy reacts badly and messes with the documents to mess up Chucks case so Chuck attempts to have Jimmy disbarred for life from his career which he loves. Even when Jimmy 'wins' it still fucks his life over, he has no money, cant do the job he loves, community service where he gets screwed, about to lose his office with Kim etc.
After all that i think i would hold some resentment for my brother and feel he deserves to get shit on and feel like they made me feel. Of course the show is trying to portray that Jimmy is going down the dark path and is losing himself but after all these years he isn't going to suddenly turn Chuck around when its clear he holds some sever resentment for Jimmy so i could understand it from Jimmy's perspective.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Just had a thought--
HHM probably pays the Malpractice insurance, but what if Chuck's outburst could cause the whole firm's rates to go up? This might be something that turns Howard against Chuck.
That's nastier than just hitting Chuck in the pocketbook.
HHM probably pays the Malpractice insurance, but what if Chuck's outburst could cause the whole firm's rates to go up? This might be something that turns Howard against Chuck.
That's nastier than just hitting Chuck in the pocketbook.
Interesting, he does work for the firm and not independently. Could be interesting?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
He does.
In fact, he was on extended medical leave until recently and was collecting some reduced payment as a result, and Jimmy thought the company (and Howard) was screwing him over by not just buying him out. Howard maintained that they couldn't afford to buy him out.
So on reflection, Jimmy may have just hastened the conflict that Chuck's ruined reputation is undoubtedly going to cause.
In fact, he was on extended medical leave until recently and was collecting some reduced payment as a result, and Jimmy thought the company (and Howard) was screwing him over by not just buying him out. Howard maintained that they couldn't afford to buy him out.
So on reflection, Jimmy may have just hastened the conflict that Chuck's ruined reputation is undoubtedly going to cause.
Robdraggoo
Member
As an commercial insurance person I couldn't help but laugh a little at that last scene. You can absolutely cancel a policy at anytime and it would be prorated. Even professional liability aka malpractice insurance.
LordRaptor
Member
Kim playing the position of moral compass for the "fuck chuck he deserves it" crowd in this episode with the "All we did was destroy a mentally ill man" line, and the ending hammering home that, really, chuck and jimmy are just as bad as each other
InaSnowBoundLand
Member
What an amazing episode. Everything was perfect.
Chuck is right about Jimmy except it's hard to see because Chuck is such a prick about it and had his hand in creating that asshole, too. It makes me wonder how far things will go between them. Also, I really like the filming crew. The girl is sweet.
Kim! That scene with her client made me really anxious thinking about how this will all fall apart.
I even liked Mike's scenes! He's so much more interesting and likable when they are actually giving him characters to interact with, exploring the side of him that isn't just a Velma/Dexter (the cartoon) working silently on some convoluted plan during some hard-to-follow boring montage. The lady he talked to really got to me. She's a good actress and Mike's reactions were touching. More of this Mike!
Chuck is right about Jimmy except it's hard to see because Chuck is such a prick about it and had his hand in creating that asshole, too. It makes me wonder how far things will go between them. Also, I really like the filming crew. The girl is sweet.
Kim! That scene with her client made me really anxious thinking about how this will all fall apart.
I even liked Mike's scenes! He's so much more interesting and likable when they are actually giving him characters to interact with, exploring the side of him that isn't just a Velma/Dexter (the cartoon) working silently on some convoluted plan during some hard-to-follow boring montage. The lady he talked to really got to me. She's a good actress and Mike's reactions were touching. More of this Mike!
I was wondering about that. What kind of place won't let you cancel insurance and get a prorated refund? LOL
ScottSullivan
Member
Wonder what Jimmy is going to do for money after he sells off the remaining commercial time. I guess that's where slippin jimmy might come back for 11 months before Mr Goodman takes the stage
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
The kind of place that exists in a universe where methlyamene is hard to come by. Sometimes, the real world gets bent a little in service of the plot.
I guess id expect a switch or a clue, if that was the case.
A pause... something.
Maybe i missed it.
minor effort
Banned
I think Kim started realizing that when Jimmy coldly rebuffed Rebecca's pleas to help Chuck while sipping champagne. While Chuck would undoubtedly have refused to open the door for Jimmy after the bar association hearing, Jimmy almost seemed like he was throwing it back in Rebecca's face after he brought her back into the picture. It was a really ugly moment for Jimmy.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
It really is.
I've been on the Fuck Chuck train as he's let really petty stuff drive him (cloaked in the Lawful Neutral BS) and for the same reason I am really hating Jimmy here. Yeah, he's hurt and down on his luck, but he's inflicting that on others.
This fucking show is going to make Chuck sympathetic to me, isn't it?
So good.
Sapiens
Member
Come to Canada and you'll find a bunch of that kind of shit.
Her talking about the pain of not knowing what happened resonated with him (I think it specifically made him think about the good samaritan driver hector had killed and disappeared, but he could've been thinking about Pryce's family or anything from his past or a mixture of all) so he agreed to facilitate the deal with nacho
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I think some of you are being thrown off by Odenkirk's acting. The entire thing at the insurance office was 100% premeditated sabotage of Chuck from what I could tell.
That you don't know it immediately is absolutely right out of the Gilliganverse playbook.
My read of the situation was that Jimmy already knew his rates were going up, and so pissed at his situation -- recall that the SNAP was actually after the Sklar Twins scene -- he plans out and acts on extended vengeance on Chuck. Which is obviously much darker than a sudden realization than discovering he could drop some hints.
I agree that it's not entirely clear, but I do think we're supposed to underestimate Jimmy before discovering how fucking dark he is. (See: Walter White)
Also I expect we'll have this same exact debate every episode from here until the end of the series. Was Jimmy justified? Did he go too far? Did he plan that out? Is he really suddenly that evil? Or are these all just Jimmy's soul's death by a thousand cuts?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. I LOVE that this show isn't opaque. I love that we don't know for certain. That's what makes Gilligan and Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul so goddamn good. I think we're just finally seeing a little bit more of that murkiness finally. And I couldn't be happier to see it arrive.
That you don't know it immediately is absolutely right out of the Gilliganverse playbook.
My read of the situation was that Jimmy already knew his rates were going up, and so pissed at his situation -- recall that the SNAP was actually after the Sklar Twins scene -- he plans out and acts on extended vengeance on Chuck. Which is obviously much darker than a sudden realization than discovering he could drop some hints.
I agree that it's not entirely clear, but I do think we're supposed to underestimate Jimmy before discovering how fucking dark he is. (See: Walter White)
Also I expect we'll have this same exact debate every episode from here until the end of the series. Was Jimmy justified? Did he go too far? Did he plan that out? Is he really suddenly that evil? Or are these all just Jimmy's soul's death by a thousand cuts?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. I LOVE that this show isn't opaque. I love that we don't know for certain. That's what makes Gilligan and Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul so goddamn good. I think we're just finally seeing a little bit more of that murkiness finally. And I couldn't be happier to see it arrive.
I personally disagree; the entire episode for Jimmy was about desperate attempts at making money, so was part of the previous episode. Why all that lead up for some vague revenge plot that otherwise seemed to materialize out of the situation?
Of all the things Jimmy can do to get revenge on Chuck overall, raising his malpractice insurance a bit seems pretty low on the list. Chuck has zero need for money it seems; he's a partner in a huge firm.
I think this is where the previous scene with Kim comes in. He's looking to screw over other people to get some sense of justice. It's not about fun anymore (he wasn't interested in Kim's play). It's about vengeance and control. And Chuck would be at the heart of that.
Kim's play was brought up after Kim made it clear she was just joking around and not serious. Jimmy seemed deflated and less interested because he really thought he'd be scamming someone out of money that night.
My read on it; of course one of the great things about this sow is how people can see things differently.
Have the creators commented on this conversation? Feel like every time there's an argument here they've commented on it lol (because they've heard what people are saying in general on the net)
For sure he wanted money. But anger and justice/vengeance drew his attention before he came up with the scheme for $5k.
I don't think our reads are mutually exclusive.
I also think there may be more to the insurance scene, but my ultimate point being that he wanted to spite Chuck.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I think he wanted to screw with Chuck, but the crying was genuine. Then he went in about how Chuck is losing it. He didn't know that he actually had her until she expressed interest in his issues with Chuck personally. That's when I think he goes all in.
stenbumling
Unconfirmed Member
Normally I would be sad about not having a new episode next week, but with The Leftovers, American Gods, Veep, Silicon Valley, Twin Peaks, The Americans, [deep breath], Fargo, The Handmaid's Tale, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt... well, I think I am going to be all right.
Has Fargo been good this season?
Not as good as season 1 and 2 but still very enjoyable.
stenbumling
Unconfirmed Member
It had a slow, unfocused start, but yesterdays episode was the best yet. Not season 1 levels, but still great tv.
MetalGearZed
Member
Lord of Castamere
Member
I think the Mike stuff was the best this episode, it was a little ambiguous, but it just shows how meticulous the writing is. Mike is still very much a lone wolf right now, and they're really stressing that. They need the character to move towards the Mike that worked for Gus and had multiple partners in Breaking Bad, a capable person that could work alone if it was possible, but wasn't afraid to get help from colleges if the job was too big. Right now, he's trying to dismantle a local cartel branch by himself, and it just isn't possible without killing him. So you have the two scenes, the cement mixing and ptsd talk, which are both pushing him towards that, but they didn't cop-out and have her story be about a loner husband who died because of his inability to seek help, which they could have easily done. Instead it was a more nuanced reaction to something in his past that triggered his return, left up to your imagination, but both scenes work together in that.
What has swung me towards Jimmy going into the insurance office with that vindictive intention is how he starts by giving only McGill as the name. Jimmy could have had his membership number, or given his full name - but instead allowed her to realise that they also covered his brother from the start of the meeting.
Then, at the end, when he pulled the trick - she already knew that his brother was covered by them. Jimmy knows exactly how to play it - it's no accident.
That's pre-planned.
Then, at the end, when he pulled the trick - she already knew that his brother was covered by them. Jimmy knows exactly how to play it - it's no accident.
That's pre-planned.
I think he just thought of doing it midway through at some point mainly because I just don't think he can cry on command. Jimmy's a 'good' actor in that he has enthusiasm, but his character is pretty blatantly superficially folksy ("My gal is disappointed in me". 'My gal'? When has Jimmy ever talked like that except when playing up a persona).
That, and if we assume it was spurred in the moment, we have an understanding of when and why exactly Jimmy made this unprecedented move. If we assume that he went into it planned...well, when did he decide to do this? The last scene was him advising Kim to put Chuck in the past, which implied he was trying to do the same thing and move on. And if he was lying to Kim about that, well, when did he decide he would go out of his way and go after Chuck without the justification of self preservation? At what point did he decide he wanted vengeance? There isn't a clear answer and the only alternative is that he decided to make this change at some point off screen while Mike and Nacho did their thing. But how is that satisfying narratively, to have such a development occur where the viewer can't see it?
It being spur of the moment just makes the most sense to me, both from what we've been shown of Jimmy's abilities and just from a storytelling perspective. It's more straightforward, we know that Jimmy has an ability to improvise, a subtle but tangible alteration in how he goes from trying to put up a front, to it breaking down, to him falling back on his folksy persona, and we know exactly why he would, at this point in time, make the jump to going after Chuck.
That, and if we assume it was spurred in the moment, we have an understanding of when and why exactly Jimmy made this unprecedented move. If we assume that he went into it planned...well, when did he decide to do this? The last scene was him advising Kim to put Chuck in the past, which implied he was trying to do the same thing and move on. And if he was lying to Kim about that, well, when did he decide he would go out of his way and go after Chuck without the justification of self preservation? At what point did he decide he wanted vengeance? There isn't a clear answer and the only alternative is that he decided to make this change at some point off screen while Mike and Nacho did their thing. But how is that satisfying narratively, to have such a development occur where the viewer can't see it?
It being spur of the moment just makes the most sense to me, both from what we've been shown of Jimmy's abilities and just from a storytelling perspective. It's more straightforward, we know that Jimmy has an ability to improvise, a subtle but tangible alteration in how he goes from trying to put up a front, to it breaking down, to him falling back on his folksy persona, and we know exactly why he would, at this point in time, make the jump to going after Chuck.
By the smile Jimmy made when walked out it could onlye be PLANNED. There isn't really any other option. Maybe there has been some time/days between that and Jimmy and Kim being in that bar?
....why? Why can't it be a smile that he managed to improvise it as he thought to do so?
Really, it's barely even a smile in the first place. It starts off as a grimace, like "fuck that guy", with some slight silver lining of satisfaction. But I don't get the impression that he came off happy out of that meeting.
Lord of Castamere
Member
Yeah, I'm still team impromptu. Not having a policy number memorized is common human behavior, stretching that into a premeditated act is a bit much. The biggest problem I have with the idea is, why did he have to be there in person if it was preplanned? You think the insurance company cares about how they get the info? I think a phone tip would have done the same thing if he planned it.
I mean it all makes sense. He gave his name, and she pulled the bigger of the two brothers, because Chuck would be more important to the company, or his name would appear first alphabetically, or he's had insurance for longer than Jimmy, whichever way you look at it. Then he spun it back on Chuck, after the refund was denied totally. He probably knew about the premium increase(maybe not the percentage exactly), but that double whammy of insurance punch caused him to turn it around.
A good chunk of the episode was about his money troubles, this got him to take the extra step for the refund, which caused this to happen. I assume this event will have echoes in the next three episodes, and even possibly spur a final confrontation with Chuck.
I mean it all makes sense. He gave his name, and she pulled the bigger of the two brothers, because Chuck would be more important to the company, or his name would appear first alphabetically, or he's had insurance for longer than Jimmy, whichever way you look at it. Then he spun it back on Chuck, after the refund was denied totally. He probably knew about the premium increase(maybe not the percentage exactly), but that double whammy of insurance punch caused him to turn it around.
A good chunk of the episode was about his money troubles, this got him to take the extra step for the refund, which caused this to happen. I assume this event will have echoes in the next three episodes, and even possibly spur a final confrontation with Chuck.
I'm worried that once Jimmy takes a permanent swerve towards the dark side, this show is going to lose a lot that I've been enjoying about it, primarily Jimmy's character arc as a down on his luck, but still essentially good hearted person. I could no doubt make for a much more cynical and unpleasant show when Jimmy starts getting handjobs from masseuses and cheerfully arranges the murders of dimestore criminals.
Human Trashcan
Banned
It wasn't premeditated. Jimmy's a dick but he's an impulsive dick with terrible judgment, not an evil person.
In the podcast they mentioned he had the idea after she said the rates would increase 150%.
So, he was there to try and fix his insurance situation, but that bit of information was the straw that broke the camel's back. He was trying to work his usual Jimmy magic on her during the scene, but after that point he becomes spiteful and starts using the meeting as a way of getting back at Chuck.
Definitely intentional, but not premeditated.
So, he was there to try and fix his insurance situation, but that bit of information was the straw that broke the camel's back. He was trying to work his usual Jimmy magic on her during the scene, but after that point he becomes spiteful and starts using the meeting as a way of getting back at Chuck.
Definitely intentional, but not premeditated.
GuessMyUserName
Member
Yeah this, if there's anything this season has hammered its Jimmy's destructive impulses when things come crashing down on him.