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Nintendo shows updated Zelda-timeline in Japanese Newsletter, puts left part on sale

B

Beren the Empty-Handed

Member
Still the best timeline:

tumblr_lx6n4xAu3c1qizbpto1_500.jpg


Well, except for that ranking at the end... But Zelda fans will never agree on a ranking.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
Madao said:
TP has nothing to do with the 3 timelines. it's after MM.
the one with the hero losing leads to ALttP. that one was sorta intended to come after FSA going by some of the stuff there but they retconned it because the TWW branch was too weak.
Click to expand...

TP has to do with the separate timelines from a real world point of view. The only reason the failure branch exists is due to TP being incompatible with aLttP. Aonuma's quote about the split timelines around the release of Wind Waker mentioned only the past and future endings, which strongly indicates that the "hero loses" concept didn't exist at the time, and that before TP the timeline only split into two branches.
 
S

shortsFortallPeople

Banned
Nirolak said:
Well, I mean, of course it is. It's not a documentary series.
Click to expand...

well yeah of course. I just meant that the concept of the Zelda timeline itself is rubbish.

Maintenance said:
Skyward Sword over MM or TP will never be right.
Click to expand...

Skyward Sword's highs are much higher than TP. It's just filled with about 15--20 hours of fucking filler that really makes you wish they had made a much tighter 25 hour experience instead.

TP remains my least favorite mainline zelda game even when compared to how flawed SS is. At least SS had some character
 
P

PMS341

Member
Third Strike said:
If it was a prequel to Wind Waker, I wonder if they'll retcon the backstory? Lore states that a hero didn't appear during that period, and that the gods had to step in to flood Hyrule. This either means the Link we see here is destined to fail, or his actions go unnoticed. I think originally, TP was announced as a prequel to Wind Waker, so it looks like they flirted with the idea before in the past.
Click to expand...

The best way to end a Zelda game would definitely be the "in-between" game for OoT/WW, just so we could have that exact moment where the world is flooded. It would be incredible and I remember being visibly flustered when TP was nothing of the sort.

That being said though, I have this strong feeling that Zelda U/NX is a direct sequel to Skyward Sword. Given the sale being with the timeline that includes the original titles, and the fact that it's the first game's 30th Anniversary, I'd say this one will involve a bit past the establishment of Hyrule itself, or the very beginnings of it. Sets up the world lore for OoT and such.
 
C

CassSept

Member
Third Strike said:
If it was a prequel to Wind Waker, I wonder if they'll retcon the backstory? Lore states that a hero didn't appear during that period, and that the gods had to step in to flood Hyrule. This either means the Link we see here is destined to fail, or his actions go unnoticed. I think originally, TP was announced as a prequel to Wind Waker, so it looks like they flirted with the idea before in the past.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think it was heavily speculated that TP will take place between OoT and TWW but I don't remember whether that was confirmed or not. TP's development was a mess, the game went through a complete reboot during the process so maybe the original TP was a TWW prequel indeed.

NeonZ said:
Aonuma's quote about the split timelines around the release of Wind Waker mentioned only the past and future endings, which strongly indicates that the "hero loses" concept didn't exist at the time, and that before TP the timeline only split into two branches.
Click to expand...

That's true, but after all it's sensible since that means OoT is ALttP's backstory, rather than ALttP's backstory being an unnamed conflict that just happens to be exactly the same as OoT.
 
B

Breakbeat

Banned
For the life of me, I still have no idea why they chose to put Four Swords Adventures (obv Wind Waker style) after Twilight Princess...
 
E

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Third Strike said:
If it was a prequel to Wind Waker, I wonder if they'll retcon the backstory? Lore states that a hero didn't appear during that period, and that the gods had to step in to flood Hyrule. This either means the Link we see here is destined to fail, or his actions go unnoticed. I think originally, TP was announced as a prequel to Wind Waker, so it looks like they flirted with the idea before in the past.
Click to expand...

Well he doesn't necessarily have to fail outright, the WW prologue is pretty vague so there's more than enough room to maneuver. Zelda U could just be about the Hero that did appear before the fall, not the OoT hero most assumed it was about, or it could directly address the flooding and be a kind of pyrrhic victory where you win but to save the world you must flood it. There's a ton of ways they can spin it if they choose to. But that's probably the biggest hurdle, Nintendo is very odd about what they will or won't address with the series.

The map to me is unquestionably closest to OoT in layout. It nearly matches 1:1, even down to the rivers. But that in and of itself doesn't mean much. Nintendo is anything but super interested in continuity, despite stuff like this timeline. So it could easily mean nothing and this game is actually a sequel to Spirit Tracks for all we know. There thought process is pretty scattered and unpredictable, which is kind of nice in that we never know exactly what we'll get.
 
C

Cleve

Member
I always felt that people were trying to hard for any sort of overarching consistency in zelda.

There's a hero, there's a princess, there's a triforce. Sometimes there's a giant pig guy.
 
S

Silvard

Member
Starwolf_UK said:
I like how Link to the past takes place immediately before and after OOT. Ganon must have been feeling groundhog day on the hero loses timeline
They really should replace the GBA LTTP+4 Swords image with Four Swords Anniversary
Click to expand...

Can anyone please explain this?
 
M

Makonero

Member
NeonZ said:
TP has to do with the separate timelines from a real world point of view. The only reason the failure branch exists is due to TP being incompatible with aLttP. Aonuma's quote about the split timelines around the release of Wind Waker mentioned only the past and future endings, which strongly indicates that the "hero loses" concept didn't exist at the time, and that before TP the timeline only split into two branches.
Click to expand...

I need a timeline for the creation of the timeline
 
B

Beren the Empty-Handed

Member
Silvard said:
Can anyone please explain this?
Click to expand...

It's because of FSA, which should be the bridge from OoT to ALttP, but whoever made up the timeline goofed. FSA is basically the Imprisoning War. The development team was going to explicitly state it and include even more references than are already in the game, but Miyamoto stepped in and told them to not focus on the story that much since it's also a multiplayer game (even though Nintendo made it absurdly difficult to play it as such).
 
A

ash_ag

Member
Tri Force Heroes isn't that hard to imagine as being canon. In fact, considering it features multiple heroes and a different Kingdom, I don't even see the necessity of one of those heroes being ALBW Link (despite the Aonuma's retroactive statement). I think I prefer the scenario where ALBW Link is a separate character who briefly makes a cameo appearance in Stage 6-2.

The timeline's order is 'okay' at this point. It doesn't look elegant, because it mixes classic games that shared a common (albeit vague) narrative (like OoT -> ALttP -> TLoZ) with modern games that just happen to be in-between -- and also makes games that are clearly related (ie. the Four Swords series) seem too afar. But the order is okay for the most part. The one thing that still annoys me to no end is the "Hero falls" explanation of the first branch. That's clearly not how it was originally envisioned, and that scenario is never presented anywhere. If they ever revise that one part, I hope they go with something that better honors the actual OoT events.

Edit:

Here's what I mean. The timeline seen as six loosely-connected narrative threads maintaining the same order:
F8QXICU.png


Seems much more elegant.
 
S

Silvard

Member
Beren the Empty-Handed said:
It's because of FSA, which should be the bridge from OoT to ALttP, but whoever made up the timeline goofed. FSA is basically the Imprisoning War. The development team was going to explicitly state it and include even more references than are already in the game, but Miyamoto stepped in and told them to not focus on the story that much since it's also a multiplayer game (even though Nintendo made it absurdly difficult to play it as such).
Click to expand...

So why do both LttP and FSA both appear twice on the timeline? And where are they supposed to go?
 
A

ArchedThunder

Banned
Beren the Empty-Handed said:
It's because of FSA, which should be the bridge from OoT to ALttP, but whoever made up the timeline goofed. FSA is basically the Imprisoning War. The development team was going to explicitly state it and include even more references than are already in the game, but Miyamoto stepped in and told them to not focus on the story that much since it's also a multiplayer game (even though Nintendo made it absurdly difficult to play it as such).
Click to expand...

No, I'm pretty sure the joke was that the box art for Four Swords also shows ALttP because they were on one cartridge.
 
U

Umibozu

Member
Was saying how triforce heroes would be canon before its release in threads (because the timeline was a bunch of nonsense) and was told by other gaffers that it wasn't canon and wasn't a part of the timeline. Glad to be vindicated and those gaffers can eat crow.
I just want to reiterate that the timeline has no importance and those who put weight in it are kidding themselves.
 
E

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Kouriozan said:
But where Zelda U fits? Would give us some hints.
Click to expand...

Anyone's guess. Get a mini roulette table, label each slot as a period between released games, spin that bitch and throw your ball and see where it lands. That's probably as likely as any guess we have at this point in time.
 
A

ash_ag

Member
Beren the Empty-Handed said:
It's because of FSA, which should be the bridge from OoT to ALttP, but whoever made up the timeline goofed. FSA is basically the Imprisoning War.
Click to expand...

That's a revision I could get behind. In addition to bridging OoT with ALttP in a much more proper way, it would bring the Four Sword series' games closer to each other, and even more properly connect them to the Oracle games, which have a vague relationship with them via Minish Cap.
 
O

Oni Link 666

Member
I guess the best hint we have about Zelda U's spot is Link's blue shirt. It could be nothing, but WW link also had a blue shirt, but with a lobster on it.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
Breakbeat said:
For the life of me, I still have no idea why they chose to put Four Swords Adventures (obv Wind Waker style) after Twilight Princess...
Click to expand...

Because it takes place in the standard Hyrule, but Ganon is dead. The only other place it could go would be in the failed hero branch. in spite of the art style, it's pretty much incompatible with the Wind Waker timeline.

Beren the Empty-Handed said:
It's because of FSA, which should be the bridge from OoT to ALttP, but whoever made up the timeline goofed. FSA is basically the Imprisoning War. The development team was going to explicitly state it and include even more references than are already in the game, but Miyamoto stepped in and told them to not focus on the story that much since it's also a multiplayer game (even though Nintendo made it absurdly difficult to play it as such).
Click to expand...

FSA's events are very similar to the Imprisoning War, but there's no Triforce or Master Sword, which are glaring omissions. Even if it was intended to be it at some point, it's clear that they gave up by the end of development.
 
E

E_Darkness

Member
I was kinda hoping the new Zelda would be on it. Then again it doesn't even have a name yet so I don't know why I thought that.
 
B

Beren the Empty-Handed

Member
ArchedThunder said:
No, I'm pretty sure the joke was that the box art for Four Swords also shows ALttP because they were on one cartridge.
Click to expand...

Lol, you're right. I didn't even notice that.

NeonZ said:
FSA's events are very similar to the Imprisoning War, but there's no Triforce or Master Sword, which are glaring omissions. Even if it was intended to be it at some point, it's clear that they gave up by the end of development.
Click to expand...

But at the same time, there's a lot of implications and references in the game that were kept, to the point where it still feels like it fits. You're right, it doesn't perfectly work, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than being after Twilight Princess just chilling by itself.
 
M

Madao

Member
NeonZ said:
TP has to do with the separate timelines from a real world point of view. The only reason the failure branch exists is due to TP being incompatible with aLttP. Aonuma's quote about the split timelines around the release of Wind Waker mentioned only the past and future endings, which strongly indicates that the "hero loses" concept didn't exist at the time, and that before TP the timeline only split into two branches.
Click to expand...

looks like TP broke the timeline then. maybe they should have went with the original plan of making it a game between oot and TWW.

ash_ag said:
That's a revision I could get behind. In addition to bridging OoT with ALttP in a much more proper way, it would bring the Four Sword series' games closer to each other, and even more properly connect them to the Oracle games, which have a vague relationship with them via Minish Cap.
Click to expand...

NeonZ said:
Because it takes place in the standard Hyrule, but Ganon is dead. The only other place it could go would be in the failed hero branch. in spite of the art style, it's pretty much incompatible with the Wind Waker timeline.


FSA's events are very similar to the Imprisoning War, but there's no Triforce or Master Sword, which are glaring omissions. Even if it was intended to be it at some point, it's clear that they gave up by the end of development.
Click to expand...

Beren the Empty-Handed said:
Lol, you're right. I didn't even notice that.


But at the same time, there's a lot of implications and references in the game that were kept, to the point where it still feels like it fits. You're right, it doesn't perfectly work, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than being after Twilight Princess just chilling by itself.
Click to expand...

it seems like they just didn't have the balls to make FSA a pivotal game in the series. it having events on the level of OoT and other main games seemed like too important stuff for a "side game" and that's probably why they toned it down to the point it's just a side game in the timeline.
 
J

JumpCancel

Banned
Madao said:
wait, in the earlier email, the 3DS games were right after ALttP and now they're after LA?

they are even retconing their own mail now.
Click to expand...

"The flow of time is always cruel... Its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it..."

Nintendo rewriting their own damn rules of time. Sheik was wrong.

Zelda is in tatters. Miyamoto to commit seppuku any moment.
 
G

Griss

Member
I'll always blame my fellow Zelda fans for this idiotic timeline as I'm convinced Nintendo only did it to satisfy a decade+ of fan whining for one.

The games should be largely self-contained legends. The only enjoyable thing about the timelines is that they are at least somewhat artistically linked after the split. Other than that it's clear that this is a bunch of 'after-the-fact' retcon nonsense.

A much better solution would have been to simply say 'Here are the games that are linked, here are those that aren't.' OoT->MM->WW->PH etc are clearly linked. Almost everything else feels like trying too hard.
 
B

Beren the Empty-Handed

Member
True Fire said:
I'd love a return to the Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess timeline.
Click to expand...

You're in luck, because it's happening next month!

...I'll see myself out.

Griss said:
I'll always blame my fellow Zelda fans for this idiotic timeline as I'm convinced Nintendo only did it to satisfy a decade+ of fan whining for one.

The games should be largely self-contained legends. The only enjoyable thing about the timelines is that they are at least somewhat artistically linked after the split. Other than that it's clear that this is a bunch of 'after-the-fact' retcon nonsense.

A much better solution would have been to simply say 'Here are the games that are linked, here are those that aren't.' OoT->MM->WW->PH etc are clearly linked. Almost everything else feels like trying too hard.
Click to expand...

They made it pretty clear they didn't give a shit when Spirit Tracks came out. Wind Waker ends
with the King passionately telling Link and Zelda that they'll have their own land, and it won't be Hyrule.
Spirit Tracks comes around, and guess what the land is called.

Minish Cap's origin story for the hat and SS's hat-wearing Link just proves it further. Nintendo doesn't care about any sort of timeline in the slightest, and it would have been better to just ignore the fan's whining for an official timeline and tell us it doesn't matter.
 
E

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
True Fire said:
I'd love a return to the Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess timeline.
Click to expand...

Even though I don't particularly want Nintendo to get to big on larger stories and narratives, part of me gets a bit giddy at the idea of having Zelda U be about Child Link coming back to Hyrule after MM and grown up a bit. That would be bananas.

But really they should just be making a nice simple story and not some overly complicated thing trying to connect and continue previous games, especially in such a direct and complicated way.
 
I

Inferno313

Banned
Griss said:
I'll always blame my fellow Zelda fans for this idiotic timeline as I'm convinced Nintendo only did it to satisfy a decade+ of fan whining for one.

The games should be largely self-contained legends. The only enjoyable thing about the timelines is that they are at least somewhat artistically linked after the split. Other than that it's clear that this is a bunch of 'after-the-fact' retcon nonsense.

A much better solution would have been to simply say 'Here are the games that are linked, here are those that aren't.' OoT->MM->WW->PH etc are clearly linked. Almost everything else feels like trying too hard.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Most of the major 3D games are linked. At least, they all branch from OOT in some way.

But like, Minish Cap doesn't need to be part of a big timeline, it's just a fun Zelda story.
 
A

ArchedThunder

Banned
JumpCancel said:
"The flow of time is always cruel... Its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it..."

Nintendo rewriting their own damn rules of time. Sheik was wrong.

Zelda is in tatters. Miyamoto to commit seppuku any moment.
Click to expand...

latest


I mean Sheik being wrong doesn't necessarily mean they rewrote the rules, it just means Sheik was wrong.
 
Soapbox Killer

Soapbox Killer

Grand Nagus
The timeline split is based on the three pieces of the Triforce, or better yet the principle characters and the influence.

Also Rock Paper Scissors but that's deeper.
 
M

Madao

Member
Enduin said:
Even though I don't particularly want Nintendo to get to big on larger stories and narratives, part of me gets a bit giddy at the idea of having Zelda U be about Child Link coming back to Hyrule after MM and grown up a bit. That would be bananas.

But really they should just be making a nice simple story and not some overly complicated thing trying to connect and continue previous games, especially in such a direct and complicated way.
Click to expand...

sorry to break it for you but
the OoT/MM Link dies and becomes the skeleton that teaches you the hiddens kills in TP. they could always retcon that later but as of now that's how he ends up.
 
deriks

deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
In japanese, A Link Between Worlds is basically A Link to the Past 2, but in the timeline happens after two games... Oh, Nintendo

Still preffer the the Timeline V2.0
 
B

Berordn

Member
ArchedThunder said:
latest


I mean Sheik being wrong doesn't necessarily mean they rewrote the rules, it just means Sheik was wrong.
Click to expand...

Zelda made a lot of dumb choices in that game, like revealing her true identity five feet away from Ganon's seat of power. The mechanics of time may be outside her grasp.
 
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