This one.
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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM
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This one.
Psychotext
Member
I see average Joe is still rabbiting on about no deal being better than a bad deal. I guess they still haven't taken on board just how fucked we'd be (trade / business wise) if we ended up switching to standard WTO rules.
JonathanEx
Member
Have we done 'Friendship Ended with EU, now WTO is my best friend' yet?
JonnyDBrit
Member
Some friend, we keep proclaiming how we're gonna break all their house rules.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
I'm waiting for Council of Europe exit soon (CExit?) because of pesky human rights. Then UNExit afterwards.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...trade-stance-puzzling-ireland-s-varadkar-says
Here were are, more than a year after the referendum.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I'm cackling, but this kind of incompetence is not in the benefit of my own country.
They really need to get their shit together.
They really need to get their shit together.
At this point im leaning towards sabotage by the government.
They realized brexit is a dumb idea and now try to get out of it.
Cant explain the sheer incompetence otherwise
JonnyDBrit
Member
Unfortunately, incompetence is its own explanation. Especially since well, I can't imagine this government having the balls and actually say 'It's untenable, so it's not happening'. They have no out here.
If the government were competent the referendum wouldn't have been offered in the first place
The current mess we have is because the current government are chasing the votes of a load of very vocal angry people, who don't know what they want and are basically lashing out at anything possible.
It's going to carry on getting a lot worse before its gets better imo
Royal_Phalanx
Member
If they were competent then they would have said 'this is stupid, we're not doing it' from the beginning. They're ideologically inclined towards doing it now unfortunately. I really don't believe David Davis thinks it's dumb.
From the Bloomberg story above:
His verdict is in:
His verdict is in:
https://twitter.com/campaignforleo/status/900073098032160770
travisbickle
Member
Before the EU referendum, David Davis was quoted saying he'd do a deal with Germany if the British public voted to leave the EU. These guys are thick as shit.
There is no way this doesn't end up with us rejoining, Euro, Schengen and all.
CyclopsRock
Member
I loved Salamanca! My girlfriend lived in the South for a while and we sort of "found" Salamanca my mistake when we were stopping for lunch whilst driving from London to the Costa del Sol. We made a point of going back there every time we didn't fly. Gorgeous place, especially in summer.
In other news, here's something that I think's pretty interesting from The Times' EU correspondent, dunno if it's been posted already:
https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/900009941452242944
"Bluster & spin" is UK attempting to extract a best possible deal, also 4 taxpayer. It's a negotiation. Disagreeing with Brexit is one thing. Legit #Brexit criticism should't make professional watchers blind 2 reality of negotiations. Both sides fighting their corner as they should. But believing that the EU is "right" in the talks and spin, bluster free is bizarre. Should HMG simply accept terms as they are given? DD already accepted the "Brexit bill," transition period, some role for ECJ & paying into #EU budget post divorce. So this is far from the alleged intransigence that gets reported, when pundits/reporters quote statements from over a year ago. If you think you can reverse #Brexit, find a political way to do it, don't bash own government, civil service for doing what they have to. And as for spin, EU institutions & 27 govts interests are opposed to those of the UK; each side is briefing accordingly. HMG are not bumbling incompetents. Best civil service in EU, along the French. Ministers evolved: been briefed and understood realities. But it's 27 against one. So HMG simply negotiating from a very weak position, not capricious ignorants as presented. Bog-standard FTA doable.
DD may have already "accepted" Brexit bill, transition period, etc... but their ARROGANCE and HUBRIS about the whole thing has NOT stopped and deserves to be challenged and brought up again and again. Only this week Theresa May has been peddling the whole "take back control" and "we will leave the ECJ" lines from a year ago, so the civil service papers may say one thing but the Tory politicians' statements clearly say another.
They are not spinning this to be CUNNING NEGOTIATORS. They're doing this for POLITICAL GAIN and to satisfy the Brexiteers, the Mail and the loonies in their party.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
IANAL and all that, but how exactly do you do that? Is there a comparable example anywhere in the world? I honestly have no idea if that's even possible, nevermind how can you articulate such a thing without turning your legislation into a huge mess.
We'll offer the EU a gentleman's agreement. Can't write anything down, but we'll shake hands. Should work.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Sort of England & Wales and Scotland, actually. They are separate legal systems that never-the-less keep very close regard to each other's developments and tend to move in sync even though it's not strictly required.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Well, I'm familiar with somewhat similar arrangements (ie: a number of Latin American countries use certain European standards/regulations), but I can't really see how the UK is going to get rid of everything it dislikes about the EU's law while keeping the nation in sync with the EU's law.
It just seems neeedlessly complicated and troublesome to navigate. Then again, that's well beyond my area of expertise.
It just seems neeedlessly complicated and troublesome to navigate. Then again, that's well beyond my area of expertise.
CyclopsRock
Member
Perhaps it could treat everything as a directive rather than regulation? That way it gives the UK parliament ultimate control over the steps it takes, but keeps us more or less in step with the EU. Dunno why we'd do that, though.
bonus stupidity:
Reminds me of Betsy DeVos not knowing the difference between proficiency and growth within Education. All roads lead to nepotism.
Haha. I asked about the feasibility of making a Frankenstein's monster out of UK and EU laws a few months ago.
looks like that is what they're trying to do. Surely it is nonsense simply due to the fact that the moment any part of an applicable law gets out of sync then it makes any previous agreements void?
Linkstrikesback
Member
Yep. We don't know how many years or even decades it'll take, but there is no way this doesn't eventually end up with the UK begging to be let back in and accepting the Euro. I eagerly await the response of the sovereignty idiots on that day.
Sounds like you're the perfect person for the job on the Brexit team.
Keeping up appearances?
jufonuk
not tag worthy
dragonelite
Member
I really hope there is some grand master plan behind that play by the British government.
If not that is one big massive fuck up.
It's fine, there's only 3.2 million other EU citizens who will need to have citizenship applications processed. Nothing to worry about. The Home Office always manages to pull off big projects like that on time, with no errors whatsoever.
This latest Government position paper is actually pretty sound. It's a more realistic, honest assessment of the issues surrounding jurisdiction and dispute resolution, and steps away from the more insane, hardline rhetoric surrounding the ECJ. There's suggestions on ways to move forward that actually open up some interesting possibilities for where the UK ends up, like the suggestion that the EFTA court might be acceptable. That being considered as acceptable means that just maybe the EEA is deemed as acceptable. That's a very interesting climbdown.
Now we just wait for the Mogg's of the world to realise what's being proposed and go nuclear.
Linkstrikesback
Member
There is. The grand master plan is they want to deport EU nationals post brexit to appeal to the daily mail crowd.
Fuck this country.
PdotMichael
Banned
The EU was always that scapegoat for completely unrelated domestic problems so it shouldn't surprise anyone that politicians, journalists and the people don't even realize the political scope of the Brexit.
It is less insane, but it is also needlessly complicated, and the consequences of this decision get more complicated as time goes by, not less.
On the face of it, it seems that shadowing the ECJ keeps everything consistent and allows us to continue our relationship seamlessly.
The problem will come when the right wingers come across something they don't like and want to repeal it and we then have to go through the same fucking arguments about sovereignty all over again.
BBC News: 'It's unfair. I came to the UK aged six' (video)
While this is a case that'll no doubt get resolved (for obvious reasons...) it really does highlight what an utter mess this is and one of the many reasons I can't buy into the intentional obfuscation bullshit
While this is a case that'll no doubt get resolved (for obvious reasons...) it really does highlight what an utter mess this is and one of the many reasons I can't buy into the intentional obfuscation bullshit
The Data Protection position paper is a hoot. It basically amounts to "We're British, we're special, we'll get the same access as we've got just now thanks, but we reserve the right to change our own data protection frameworks unilaterally".
Data protection is one of the bigger issues of Brexit. Once we're out we lose the national security derogation that member states have so even if we keep the same rules as the EU, we'll never be equivalent. Companies can get around the data protection issues but it's going to be extremely expensive.
Data protection is one of the bigger issues of Brexit. Once we're out we lose the national security derogation that member states have so even if we keep the same rules as the EU, we'll never be equivalent. Companies can get around the data protection issues but it's going to be extremely expensive.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41036236
Looks like the plan to make the UK so unappealing that people stop coming is working!
Looks like the plan to make the UK so unappealing that people stop coming is working!
JonnyDBrit
Member
Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics
So those tens of thousands of non-EU students supposedly overstaying their visa? Uh, may not exist.
So those tens of thousands of non-EU students supposedly overstaying their visa? Uh, may not exist.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Nothing like overestimating the correct figure by 2200%.
Guess who was in the home office when they made decisions on false data
Good piece by Stephen Bush:
The big problem is that the government thinks immigration has been bad for Britain, not that it has been overestimating the scale of it.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...nment-has-got-number-migrants-wrong-heres-why
The big problem is that the government thinks immigration has been bad for Britain, not that it has been overestimating the scale of it.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...nment-has-got-number-migrants-wrong-heres-why
If only the ONS had more qualified statisticians to recruit. Don't know where we could get those.
Shocking stuff. More shocking that these sorts of statistics are being used to push a silly agenda. Even worse is how the Government aren't taking the sorts of steps required to alleviate the effects of their policies. Drastically cutting the number of foreign students coming to UK universities will destroy them financially and be a major hit to our soft power in the world. I don't see the Government responding to that by investing in them.
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