Support NeoGAF

Killer Queen · Mar 22, 2017

Poor GRIMES said:
He's wrong because his subsequent examples are dated and shows a gross misunderstanding of Asian-American representation in Hollywood. Your same reasoning can also apply had they chosen an Asian actress over another White-lead in a sci-fi film. Further considering that the property is from Japan, it would have been very easy and still thematically appropriate per the source to cast an Asian woman.

None of this makes him wrong, just that you don't agree with his opinion. Ignoring his thoughts on the "politics" behind it, sure she could have been Asian, but in this adaptation she's not, and it doesn't hurt the character or property any, because it's entirely in line with the source material, as evidenced by the director of the original film who's opinion holds far more weight than yours considering its his work that's being adapted and why this movie even exists in the first place. You're free to dislike it and to have preferred something else, but that doesn't change the fact of the matter. Especially since the character's ethnicity has no importantance to the story or character.
because she's a cyborg

- J - D - · Mar 22, 2017

Hey guys Jessica Alba once played Sue Storm, a white woman. So it's all good, this.

Akainu · Mar 22, 2017

The thing I don't get is who goes through the trouble of going to a foreign country and raises to such a high rank on a whim? In the manga a character she had previous contact with knows her as a Lieutenant.

Poor GRIMES · Mar 22, 2017

Chumley said:
This is in the context of a character he knows very well. I'd say he actually does have an idea of what he's talking about. You're entitled to disagree, but that doesn't mean he's out of his depth.

It's true that there's no basis for her race.

However it's wrong to remove the casting decision from the very real discussion of Asian representation in Hollywood

Killer Queen said:
None of this makes him wrong, just that you don't agree with his opinion. Ignoring his thoughts on the "politics" behind it, sure she could have been Asian, but in this adaptation she's not, and it doesn't hurt the character or property any, because it's entirely in line with the source material, as evidenced by the director of the original film who's opinion holds far more weight than yours considering its his work that's being adapted and why this movie even exists in the first place. You're free to dislike it and to have preferred something else, but that doesn't change the fact of the matter. Especially since the character's ethnicity has no importantance to the story or character.
because she's a cyborg

Funnily enough I didn't even argue that the source material didn't set a precedent for Major's race to not be ambiguous. I merely stated that his ignorance on a lack of representation is sad because he's trying to double down on his source material as a crux to excuse overtly casting White leads in Sci-Fi films. This was absolutely one moment where casting an Asian woman, or Hell, any other WoC would have been great.

Kain-Nosgoth · Mar 22, 2017

anaron said:
She's deep voiced, extremely good at playing robotic roles and a nearly perfect physical mix of the film and TV series Major. Not sure how she doesn't fit.

"Not enough horses."

i don't know, just my impression.... she always looks unsure and worried in the trailers, that's not how i portray the major at all! but hey that's just me

Also duckroll has a really good point too

KonradLaw · Mar 22, 2017

Dryk said:
Asian actors don't land roles because they're not stars because they don't land roles because they're not stars because...

There are very few stars these days. And if somebody does appear they mostly become stars by starring in some big franchise movie. That's where we should probably start looking for casting more asians if we actually want to increase their participation in big movies. Those flicks are almost always successful and if actor works well in them he gets to stay in audience's mind and then they can try casting him in less sure-fire hits.

commedieu · Mar 22, 2017

Killer Queen said:
Major is a cyborg. She's in a robotic body with an assumed name, why should her race matter when she can be anyone of any race? Meaning she could also easily be ScarJo if she wanted to be. So please tell me, how is he wrong?

He's not wrong. However the issue he is responding to, diversity/white casting, isn't a right or wrong issue. It's just phrased that way by people that are bothered by attempts to include people that make up an audience to see a likeness of themselves on the silver screen. To win some sort of argument by being right or wrong. "She's acyborg see! She can be anything. It Just happens to fall in line with Hollywood trends of not casting minorities. But she could have been anything! She's white, but it doesn't matter what race she is!"

Hollywood has an issue with a lack Asian of characters and leads in films. When they can't even get the roles in Asian sourced material, it's a problem for some. His comments then devolve into nonsense. Taken as a whole, neat opinion, and he's right. A made up cyborg can be anything. Who is going to debate that? But many can disagree with the rest of the absolute twaddle he followed it up with. Setting a tone for the previous statement.

Asians are under represented in Hollywood, and this film is another great example of a missed opportunity to include Asian lead talent.

You can hang your hat on the isolated cyborg bit, and that's that, while ignoring the rest. But he speaks for himself with the entire context.

Akainu · Mar 22, 2017

KonradLaw said:
There are very few stars these days. And if somebody does appear they mostly become stars by starring in some big franchise movie. That's where we should probably start looking for casting more asians if we actually want to increase their participation in big movies. Those flicks are almost always successful and if actor works well in them he gets to stay in audience's mind and then they can try casting him in less sure-fire hits.

good luck getting them to begin with.

duckroll · Mar 22, 2017

Killer Queen said:
Ignoring his thoughts on the "politics" behind it

But why would we ignore 35% of the reason why I made the thread in the first place? Lol. A person can be academically right about a subject and also show how poorly suited they are to speak on an issue. This is not just a question of whether it is a appropriate for a white woman to play the Major, this is also a representation of the social climate where Asian Americans feel constantly let down by the poor representation in Hollywood. To truly address this subject one has to understand not just the singular example, but origin of the dissent. Oshii correctly addresses the issue with regards to this single property and character, but then goes on to show how he completely fails to understand why representation is an issue, and then doubles down by crying about politics.

T.O.P · Mar 22, 2017

Agree with the guy, also 1 week to go and i'm pretty damn excited to finally see this

Chumley · Mar 22, 2017

Poor GRIMES said:
It's true that there's no basis for her race.

However it's wrong to remove the casting decision from the very real discussion of Asian representation in Hollywood

Funnily enough I didn't even argue that the source material didn't set a precedent for Major's race to not be ambiguous. I merely stated that his ignorance on a lack of representation is sad because he's trying to double down on his source material as a crux to excuse overtly casting White leads in Sci-Fi films. This was absolutely one moment where casting an Asian woman, or Hell, any other WoC would have been great.

You're making a different argument. You might believe it's a moral failing of his to appear indifferent to the situation of Asians in Hollywood, but in the context of this role in this film with the reasoning he gave, it's very hard to say he's "wrong".

Was GitS an opportunity to cast an Asian in the lead role? Of course, but so would most blockbusters. There's no reason why Marvel moves can't have any asians in them, or Disney movies, etc.

Until big studios start taking chances on casting diverse unknowns in big movies, nothing will change. The onus isn't singularly on GitS.

V_Arnold · Mar 22, 2017

So now Gaf has authority over Mamoru Oshii when it comes to deciding who can play what?

duckroll said:
But why would we ignore 35% of the reason why I made the thread in the first place? Lol. A person can be academically right about a subject and also show how poorly suited they are to speak on an issue. This is not just a question of whether it is a appropriate for a white woman to play the Major, this is also a representation of the social climate where Asian Americans feel constantly let down by the poor representation in Hollywood. To truly address this subject one has to understand not just the singular example, but origin of the dissent. Oshii correctly addresses the issue with regards to this single property and character, but then goes on to show how he completely fails to understand why representation is an issue, and then doubles down by crying about politics.

Actually, THIS is exactly the reason why it is perfectly reasonable to criticise movements ("movies contain too many white leads compared to demographics", etc), while it is totally counter-productive to go against specific titles. "Scarlett should not play Major, and, uhm, now that she is not Kusanagi either....anyway, IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN" is just weird. For two reasons: 1) Scarlett is kinda being typecast now to these flicks (see: Lucy), and it seems to fit her style well (typecasting is another issue that cant be eradicated by going against specific cases), 2) Without her name attached to the movie, not many big studios would take a risk. Which is another problem where we need SYSTEMATIC changes, not directed crusades.

TatteredHat · Mar 22, 2017

Killer Queen said:
Major is a cyborg. She's in a robotic body with an assumed name, why should her race matter when she can be anyone of any race? Meaning she could also easily be ScarJo if she wanted to be. So please tell me, how is he wrong?

She can be anything, and yet somehow she still became ScarJo, who at this point is basically the face of these kinds of roles.

anaron · Mar 22, 2017

V_Arnold said:
So now Gaf has authority over Mamoru Oshii when it comes to deciding who can play what?

Which makes me lol because his film is why Gits is even popular/established in the west.

Killer Queen · Mar 22, 2017

I'm not arguing against Asian representation, and I do agree with the sentiment that it would be nice to see more. But arguing in this case that the Major needs to be asian I find silly, because at the end if the day it doesn't matter in the context of this movie or property. Had it been something like the Great Wall? Sure, the lead should be asian because it makes thematic sense. Arguing that a cyborg that switches bodies needs to be asian doesn't make sense.

Chumley said:
You're making a different argument. You might believe it's a moral failing of his to appear indifferent to the situation of Asians in Hollywood, but in the context of this role in this film with the reasoning he gave, it's very hard to say he's "wrong".

Was GitS an opportunity to cast an Asian in the lead role? Of course, but so would most blockbusters. There's no reason why Marvel moves can't have any asians in them, or Disney movies, etc.

Until big studios start taking chances on casting diverse unknowns in big movies, nothing will change. The onus isn't singularly on GitS.

This articulates my opinion better than I could.

BocoDragon · Mar 22, 2017

duckroll said:
Errrrrrrr.... maybe stop when you were ahead.

Well said.

I can see where he's coming from being okay with the casting.

But outright dismissing the casting discussion as "political" is a bit of an overreach. There's no way in hell you cast a white actress in a previously Japanese role without society at large having a dialogue about it.

And while it's nice that there's the "she's a cyborg" excuse.... they'd whitewash this movie even if there weren't.

massoluk · Mar 22, 2017

Chumley said:
You're making a different argument. You might believe it's a moral failing of his to appear indifferent to the situation of Asians in Hollywood, but in the context of this role in this film with the reasoning he gave, it's very hard to say he's "wrong".

Was GitS an opportunity to cast an Asian in the lead role? Of course, but so would most blockbusters. There's no reason why Marvel moves can't have any asians in them, or Disney movies, etc.

Until big studios start taking chances on casting diverse unknowns in big movies, nothing will change. The onus isn't singularly on GitS.

Really, if you don't think a movie based on a hit Japanese anime based on a Japanese manga portraying a character named Motoko set in Japan is in a unique position as a vehicle for an Asian actress compare to other ip, I don't think I can even try to convince yoi

KonradLaw · Mar 22, 2017

duckroll said:
But why would we ignore 35% of the reason why I made the thread in the first place? Lol. A person can be academically right about a subject and also show how poorly suited they are to speak on an issue. This is not just a question of whether it is a appropriate for a white woman to play the Major, this is also a representation of the social climate where Asian Americans feel constantly let down by the poor representation in Hollywood. To truly address this subject one has to understand not just the singular example, but origin of the dissent. Oshii correctly addresses the issue with regards to this single property and character, but then goes on to show how he completely fails to understand why representation is an issue, and then doubles down by crying about politics.

Representation is politics. So he's correct that it's all about politics.

Plus he's one fathers of the whole IP. So put yourself in his shoes. To him some random americans think they have more ownership of the franchise than it's creators do. Unless you are living in USA and deeply immersed in those issues the normal reaction most people will have is "arrogant americans trying to dicatate terms to other cultures". Especially since it's Japan, a country that regularly yellow-washes caucasian roles. So the diversity as seen by americans is completely alien issue to them.

Poor GRIMES · Mar 22, 2017

Chumley said:
You're making a different argument. You might believe it's a moral failing of his to appear indifferent to the situation of Asians in Hollywood, but in the context of this role in this film with the reasoning he gave, it's very hard to say he's "wrong".

Was GitS an opportunity to cast an Asian in the lead role? Of course, but so would most blockbusters. There's no reason why Marvel moves can't have any asians in them, or Disney movies, etc.

Until big studios start taking chances on casting diverse unknowns in big movies, nothing will change. The onus isn't singularly on GitS.

Here's the thing though:

Of course the onus isn't just on GiTS. However, how do you think it makes Asian-Americans feel when a source material that originates from Japan doesn't even merit a discussion for Asian representation in a lead role? And instead, Asian-Americans follow the casting news to see yet another White lead?

wandering · Mar 22, 2017

Chumley said:
You're making a different argument. You might believe it's a moral failing of his to appear indifferent to the situation of Asians in Hollywood, but in the context of this role in this film with the reasoning he gave, it's very hard to say he's "wrong".

Was GitS an opportunity to cast an Asian in the lead role? Of course, but so would most blockbusters. There's no reason why Marvel moves can't have any asians in them, or Disney movies, etc.

Until big studios start taking chances on casting diverse unknowns in big movies, nothing will change. The onus isn't singularly on GitS.

GITS stands out because it remains a story set in Asia using Asian cultures as decoration:

KonradLaw said:
Especially since it's Japan, a country that regularly yellow-washes caucasian roles.

Hey. Fuck off.

V_Arnold · Mar 22, 2017

BocoDragon said:
Well said.

I can see where he's coming from being okay with the casting.

But outright dismissing the casting discussion as "political" is a bit of an overreach. There's no way in hell you cast a white actress in a previously Japanese role without society at large having a dialogue about it.

And while it's nice that there's the "she's a cyborg" excuse.... they'd whitewash this movie even if there weren't.

Demanding specific actor changes will just make big studios take less risks and just produce "all-white" movies, not even touching problematic adaptations in the first place. If that is the desired outcome, then go ahead, continue. If not, then truly, it is time to leave room for disagreement, especially in the case of such a philosophical movie as this one.

KonradLaw · Mar 22, 2017

Poor GRIMES said:
Here's the thing though:

Of course the onus isn't just on GiTS. However, how do you think it makes Asian-Americans feel when a source material that originates from Japan doesn't even merit a discussion for Asian representation in a lead role? And instead, Asian-Americans follow the casting news to see yet another White lead?

I don't think casting asian-american would have been all that much better. A little yes, but still pretty offensive. The only way to do it properly would have been to have japanese actress.

Akainu · Mar 22, 2017

KonradLaw said:
Representation is politics. So he's correct that it's all about politics.

Plus he's one fathers of the whole IP. So put yourself in his shoes. To him some random americans think they have more ownership of the franchise than it's creators do. Unless you are living in USA and deeply immersed in those issues the normal reaction most people will have is "arrogant americans trying to dicatate terms to other cultures". Especially since it's Japan, a country that regularly yellow-washes caucasian roles. So the diversity as seen by americans is completely alien issue to them.

One of the fathers. Is that how it works now?

Laughing Banana · Mar 22, 2017

He may have a point, if the fact that Hollywood has a long history of white-washing characters is not true.

Also, using John Wayne's Genghis Khan as a way to reinforce his opinion... LOL.

Glass Rebel · Mar 22, 2017

I believe artistic expression must be free from politics.

Cute. Naive but cute. Also political by itself.

duckroll · Mar 22, 2017

KonradLaw said:
Representation is politics. So he's correct that it's all about politics.

Plus he's one fathers of the whole IP. So put yourself in his shoes. To him some random americans think they have more ownership of the franchise than it's creators do. Unless you are living in USA and deeply immersed in those issues the normal reaction most people will have is "arrogant americans trying to dicatate terms to other cultures"

He is right that it is about politics, he is wrong that art should not be political. And he himself should know this. He is an anime director. He is a veteran in the industry. Anime would not exist if art were not political. The entire culture that built the industry of manga and anime in Japan was born out of the desire of the younger generation post-war to express their views against the mainstream and to go against the wave of the older conservative entertainment medium. To this day it remains as such. Hayao Miyazaki's last film was about the tragedy of how the art of engineering can become a weapon of war seen through the lens of Japan entering the Second World War. Isao Takahata's last film was a modern feminist interpretation of the classic Japanese story of the Bamboo Cutter's Daughter. Art is strongest when it is most political.

BocoDragon · Mar 22, 2017

V_Arnold said:
Demanding specific actor changes will just make big studios take less risks and just produce "all-white" movies, not even touching problematic adaptations in the first place. If that is the desired outcome, then go ahead, continue. If not, then truly, it is time to leave room for disagreement, especially in the case of such a philosophical movie as this one.

If we can have open dialogue about the fact that movies not starring white people won't get made, all the better. We need to be open as a society about this essentially "racist" capitalist dynamic.

As long as we aren't saying "what's the big deal! No problem here! Why are we even talking about this??" as Oshii is kind of implying with his dismissal....

I'm not even mad at Oshii. I think he's rather "captured". A Hollywood film being based on your works? How flattering! And of course it stars white people. That's how you'd picture the fantasy of Western-approved success. But it doesn't mean the rest of us can't comment....

KonradLaw · Mar 22, 2017

Akainu said:
One of the fathers. Is that how it works now?

Yes. He didn't create the IP but did adapatation that's much more of the basis for this hollywood movie than original comicbook was.
The first GITS animated movie is the defining product for the whole franchise, despite not being the first entry in the IP.

commedieu · Mar 22, 2017

Killer Queen said:
I'm not arguing against Asian representation, and I do agree with the sentiment that it would be nice to see more. But arguing in this case that the Major needs to be asian I find silly, because at the end if the day it doesn't matter in the context of this movie or property. Had it been something like the Great Wall? Sure, the lead should be asian because it makes thematic sense. Arguing that a cyborg that switches bodies needs to be asian doesn't make sense.

This articulates my opinion better than I could.

I don't see anyone making this the definitive call to arms for Asian talent. You know, making it some huge monumental film that needs asians, that MUST have asians. No, I've seen the shaken heads, and it's due to keeping the status quo with minorities in Hollywood.

Its just a constant flow of not casting asians, and white washing films for a hollywood audience. Asians especially have little to no visibility, so when a slightly high profile film comes out it does bring the issue to light as an example.

But trying to big up the issue as if it's paramount that she must be asian, I think that's muddying what the actual criticism is. It's silly to consider thats what people are taking issue with. That ghost in the Shell is a line that must not be crossed because it is sacred to Japanese culture, or however you'd like to describe it. No, just another shinning example in an ongoing pattern.

You are 100% correct. Arguing about a cyborg doesn't make sense. Which is why his point fell apart with the yellow face and political ramblings. What the issue is, what he tried to address, makes a ton of sense. That issue can't be replaced by concluding that arguing about a fictional cyborg being whatever race an imagination wants, is silly. It's apples and oranges imo.

Chumley · Mar 22, 2017

Poor GRIMES said:
Here's the thing though:

Of course the onus isn't just on GiTS. However, how do you think it makes Asian-Americans feel when a source material that originates from Japan doesn't even merit a discussion for Asian representation in a lead role? And instead, Asian-Americans follow the casting news to see yet another White lead?

The studio executives could have taken a chance on an Asian lead, sure, but the reasons they didn't are systemic in Hollywood. Frankly, I have a lot more beef with Disney and Marvel for never making an effort to try and make an Asian actor a leading star than the producers on this. While GitS has the pedigree of being a Japanese property, it's completely untested at this level, whereas Marvel and Disney have franchises that are literally guaranteed to do business no matter who they cast. They don't need a safety net like Scarlett Johansson.

Point is, all of the studios are guilty, but the studios with more bulletproof franchises than GitS have less of an excuse.

anaron · Mar 22, 2017

What I'm curious about is how the film handles it, because it appears to be somewhat built into the plot for why she is a different race. That doesn't make it justified per se, but I'm hoping it will at least make sense.

Chumley said:
The studio executives could have taken a chance on an Asian lead, sure, but the reasons they didn't are systemic in Hollywood. Frankly, I have a lot more beef with Disney and Marvel for never making an effort to try and make an Asian actor a leading star than the producers on this. While GitS has the pedigree of being a Japanese property, it's completely untested at this level, whereas Marvel and Disney have franchises that are literally guaranteed to do business no matter who they cast. They don't need a safety net like Scarlett Johansson.

Point is, all of the studios are guilty, but the studios with more bulletproof franchises than GitS have less of an excuse.

I think this is also a good point.

Sunster · Mar 22, 2017

commedieu said:
I don't see anyone making this the definitive call to arms for Asian talent. You know, making it some huge monumental film that needs asians, that MUST have asians. No, I've seen the shaken heads, and it's due to keeping the status quo with minorities in Hollywood.

Its just a constant flow of not casting asians, and white washing films for a hollywood audience. Asians especially have little to no visibility, so when a slightly high profile film comes out it does bring the issue to light as an example.

But trying to big up the issue as if it's paramount that she must be asian, I think that's muddying what the actual criticism is. It's silly to consider thats what people are taking issue with. That ghost in the Shell is a line that must not be crossed because it is sacred to Japanese culture, or however you'd like to describe it. No, just another shinning example in an ongoing pattern.

You are 100% correct. Arguing about a cyborg doesn't make sense. Which is why his point fell apart with the yellow face and political ramblings. What the issue is, what he tried to address, makes a ton of sense. That issue can't be replaced by a concluding arguing about a fictional cyborg being whatever race an imagination wants, is silly. It's apples and oranges imo.

great post

Spladam · Mar 22, 2017

Discotheque said:
there definitely needs to be a push for more asian and brown lead actors in hollywood.

what do people here think of Roza Salazar, a latino actress, being cast in Battle Angel Alita?

Did not even know this was happening, thanks for the heads up. I think it's a fine casting, and can't wait to see what Robert Rodriguez does with this project.

"If that's not allowed, then Darth Vader probably shouldnt speak English, either."

That's funny.

duckroll · Mar 22, 2017

anaron said:
What I'm curious about is how the film handles it, because it appears to be somewhat built into the plot for why she is a different race. That doesn't make it justified per se, but I'm hoping it will at least make sense.

I don't want to turn this into a spoiler discussion, but there's something I saw a while back with regards to production photos that might have a clue to that.

Seems at some point she visits a grave with Kusanagi's name. In the film she doesn't have a Japanese name, so I'm leaning on some conspiracy where they changed her body and identity, and wiped her past from her after some shit went down.

Killer Queen · Mar 22, 2017

commedieu said:
I don't see anyone making this the definitive call to arms for Asian talent. You know, making it some huge monumental film that needs asians, that MUST have asians. No, I've seen the shaken heads, and it's due to keeping the status quo with minorities in Hollywood.

Its just a constant flow of not casting asians, and white washing films for a hollywood audience. Asians especially have little to no visibility, so when a slightly high profile film comes out it does bring the issue to light as an example.

But trying to big up the issue as if it's paramount that she must be asian, I think that's muddying what the actual criticism is. It's silly to consider thats what people are taking issue with. That ghost in the Shell is a line that must not be crossed because it is sacred to Japanese culture, or however you'd like to describe it. No, just another shinning example in an ongoing pattern.

You are 100% correct. Arguing about a cyborg doesn't make sense. Which is why his point fell apart with the yellow face and political ramblings. What the issue is, what he tried to address, makes a ton of sense. That issue can't be replaced by a concluding arguing about a fictional cyborg being whatever race an imagination wants, is silly. It's apples and oranges imo.

Maybe I should have been more specific, but my opinion about Oshii being right only refers to it not Mattering about the Major's race due to the nature of the character.

Edit: as for whether people feel that Major does or doesn't need to be asian, I've certainly seen the sentiment that she does on GAF, but it's the same with every anime adaptation. Which in most cases makes more sense than this one.

Robot Carnival · Mar 22, 2017

did Masamune Shirow (the artist of the original manga) express his feelings regarding the new live action movie?

DryEyeRelief · Mar 22, 2017

So why is Batou white?

anaron · Mar 22, 2017

duckroll said:
I don't want to turn this into a spoiler discussion, but there's something I saw a while back with regards to production photos that might have a clue to that.

Seems at some point she visits a grave with Kusanagi's name. In the film she doesn't have a Japanese name, so I'm leaning on some conspiracy where they changed her body and identity, and wiped her past from her after some shit went down.

It does appear that way, especially

with Kaori Momoi playing her mother.

Spladam · Mar 22, 2017

duckroll said:
I don't want to turn this into a spoiler discussion, but there's something I saw a while back with regards to production photos that might have a clue to that.

Seems at some point she visits a grave with Kusanagi's name. In the film she doesn't have a Japanese name, so I'm leaning on some conspiracy where they changed her body and identity, and wiped her past from her after some shit went down.

Interesting, I wonder if the live action is going to flesh out much more of the story than the original film did.

Usobuko · Mar 22, 2017

It won't be that much of a problem ( Asian representation) if not for western countries being averse to them after decades of conditioning in seeing white main characters on the big screens.

massoluk · Mar 22, 2017

Robot Carnival said:
did Masamune Shirow (the artist of the original manga) express his feelings regarding the new live action movie?

Im kinda scared of what he may say

http://www.kidfenris.com/2010/03/rise-and-fall-of-masamune-shirow.html?m=1

brinstar · Mar 22, 2017

John "I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility" Wayne might not be the best person to namedrop for this lol

lightskintwin · Mar 22, 2017

I kept saying this was a bad example to label as "whitewashing" and the issues become complicated because the actual owners of the IP are more than happy to have a Hollywood star lead a film adaptation, which tbh is the whole point of a Hollywood adaptation.

commedieu · Mar 22, 2017

Killer Queen said:
Maybe I should have been more specific, but my opinion about Oshii being right only refers to it not Mattering about the Major's race due to the nature of the character.

Edit: as for whether people feel that Major does or doesn't need to be asian, I've certainly seen the sentiment that she does on GAF, but it's the same with every anime adaptation. Which in most cases makes more sense than this one.

Yeah I understand, which is why I said I agree. Arguing about a cyborgs race is silly. But, the actual issue he was responding to, is a bit more deeper than a cyborgs race. Framing it as just people fixating that this cyborg must be made at a Japanese factory with a Japanese object i.d, is sidestepping the actual criticism of the film(s). That's what he did, and it's proven by his spiral off the issue.

As someone said above, truth is, it's not as appealing to cast lesser known asians, but they sure as as hell aren't going to get there if they can't get roles. I think everyone knows fictional characters can be anything. Just happens to be white. Again.

Vigilant Walrus · Mar 22, 2017

The Japanese Man Yuta, tackled this subject with asking random Japanese about whitewashing. It's very interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhoBuU1Dtc

It goes without saying that anecdotal interviews don't speak for all Japanese or all asians, but when I saw that interview it also made me think of other instances where Japanese people seemed surprisingly cool with it. With all the threads we've had about The Last Samurai, supposedly a lot of Japanese people really liked it and they really like Tom Cruise.

And similarly with related subjects about KImonos, where they like it when people appropriate their culture because they see it as a boon for themselves; http://www.neogaf.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?&f=3

I've never been to Japan, but the impression I get is that they also don't like to be told by foreigners what is appropriate for them to do. They've been described a remix and fad culture. Is it possible that a lot of japanese society don't feel they should be barred from favoring japanese only in other contexts and through that lens they see racial bias as fair game?

A.D. Skinner · Mar 22, 2017

I'm with him, with his reasons for chosen actors and the bodies. Keep away, justice warriors!

YesNOnoNOYes · Mar 22, 2017

I am cautiously optimistic that ScarJo would be great in this

:3

Trokil · Mar 22, 2017

The problem with the whole discussion still is, that Ghost in the Shell is a not a good movie to have it in the first place. The whole idea of the Ghost in Shell universe is, that the shell (body) does not matter anymore, it does not even define you as a human anymore. The whole anime was pretty much about this.

For the major her body is something like a puppet, that why she even uses the standard model without personality modifications. Neither Race nor Gender matter, because the body has become so unimportant. In SAC Batou even suggest that she should use a male model next time.

Dali · Mar 22, 2017

duckroll said:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/03...-oshii-has-no-problem-with-live-action-remake

Fair point.

That has been pointed out a million times already by people who have read the manga or watched the original movie. Then he goes on to ruin it with the rest of his nonsense.

I'm sure this will be relevant to some interests.

Yeah I don't know about that. Your average television quality (and most movies ss well) japanese cg definitely. But pixar, Disney, and other high end stuff seem pretty good at it.

EGM1966 · Mar 22, 2017

The issue with race casting is real.

Focusing on a SF character who by definition could be anything including post human in form isn't maybe the worst offender to target though.

That said overall a push for better race representation should continue and where characters clearly have a certain race/gender this should either be respected or changes should have artistic merit.

Support NeoGAF

Original Ghost in the Shell director Mamoru Oshii defends ScarJo playing Major

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious

Banned

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Weeping Pickle

Member

Member

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Similar threads