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Vigil in 2012: Wii U "has been on par with what we have with the current generation"

D

DefectiveReject

Banned
SapientWolf said:
It's still possible that the Wii-U is significantly more powerful than current consoles. It just may not be convenient or possible to take advantage of Wii U's power advantage in terms of large, appreciable graphical upgrades, so it looks like they're going to use the tablet's features to add value to their port. Which makes sense, because going from 720p->1080p or 30fps->60fps requires several magnitudes of power superiority or some other type of trade-offs.
Click to expand...

Meh who cares. Retro and EAD in HD will in my opinion put EVERY other developer to absolute and utter shame. What these guys got out of Wii is outstanding. Giving them 10X+ more power to play with . . . !

herzogzwei1989 said:
Why all these threads?
Click to expand...

:-?


Nirolak said:
I don't read the speculation thread, since it's a hundreds of pages long megathread.

Just like we have threads for rumors from major sources, this is a comment straight from a developer, so we have a new thread for it.

Just because some people don't like what someone is saying doesn't mean it gets shoved in a dusty corner. I'm sure many of the people complaining wouldn't be if he said it was five times as powerful and I posted that thread, which I would have if he said that as well.
Click to expand...

It was merely 2 pages back though at the time of your posting? I don't care what they say personally I shall form my own opinions and had encountered MANY people with so called dev contact or contact with the WiiU saying similar things over the last few months. It's not new news though but the reaction on GAF has astounded me.
 
N

NBtoaster

Member
DefectiveReject said:
I don't think there was a need for you to post the thread though...... it should have been kept in the speculation thread where it had been posted near on 12 hours earlier. And from the range of nonsense that followed in that thread, your posting of the thread can only be viewed as looking for heated debate. . . . I thought mods where here to douse fires, not ignite them???

All the above is in my own honest opinion of course
Click to expand...

Comments on possible specs of the Wii U are thread worthy, especially if they kinda go against what others have been saying.
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Nirolak said:
So, since apparently quite a few people want to call me out for trolling, I would personally interpret this to mean "in the general range of the current generation" than "literally the exact same parts as the Xbox 360."

Like, the Wii actually has a healthy gap over the original Xbox (a healthy amount of more RAM, more processing power, a better GPU), but most developers would consider it on par with last generation in terms of general power versus the current generation.

I like Nintendo's games and intend to buy one eventually. If people really want, I can try and find a camera to take a picture of my pretty healthily sized Wii game collection.
Click to expand...

I don't think the OP was a troll, but I think the title made it very easy for the thread to devolve into a complete shit fest, as it soon did. I think the fact that you posted it made it much easier for people to feel secure in offering ridiculous, blatant trolls.
 
P

Pre

Member
Many of you are saying things that translate to "Goddamn Nintendo for making profitable systems that are easily affordable from launch! Why don't they break the bank to develop a system that would be unprofitable for years?"

Yeah, fuck those guys for making money. What kind of business actually considers how to make their product profitable? The profitability issues of Sony and Microsoft's gaming divisions are well-documented. The goal of making video games it to make money, and Nintendo are the straight-up winners. There's no way around it.

With that said, this thread is ridiculous conjecture from all sides. Let's all take a step back and wait until we actually have substantial proof of the system's power. Some developers say that it's substantially more powerful than the current generation of hardware, while others say it's about on par. We'll have to wait and see how much of a leap it is.

Also, keep in mind that how the system looks at launch is not how it will look a couple of years down the line. It always takes a while for a console to hit its full graphical stride.
 
D

Durante

Member
SapientWolf said:
It's still possible that the Wii-U is significantly more powerful than current consoles. It just may not be convenient or possible to take advantage of Wii U's power advantage in terms of large, appreciable graphical upgrades, so it looks like they're going to use the tablet's features to add value to their port. Which makes sense, because going from 720p->1080p or 30fps->60fps requires several magnitudes of power superiority or some other type of trade-offs.
Click to expand...
How exactly does going from 720p to 1080p require "several magnitudes of power superiority"? In the very worst case, it requires 2.25 times the fillrate, memory bandwidth and shading power on the GPU. Providing that should be trivial for any "next-gen" console.
 
S

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
Durante said:
How exactly does going from 720p to 1080p require "several magnitudes of power superiority"? In the very worst case, it requires 2.25 times the fillrate, memory bandwidth and shading power on the GPU. Providing that should be trivial for any "next-gen" console.
Click to expand...
A 2.25 increase in every single one of those categories actually represents a pretty substantial gap in terms of GPU generational power. Somewhere around 2-3 generations. But if next gen consoles are really pushing GTX 680 levels of power then a 1080p standard is certainly feasible.
 
M

Medalion

Banned
test_account said:
How likely is it that the final retail hardware will be very different in terms of power? Honest question. The WiiU is probably about 6 months away from release date, and this interview is done recently. Is it likely that the developers are still on very old WiiU hardware?
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Yes. The quote even says they are limited by the development of the finalized hardware being sent from Nintendo cuz they haven't made up their minds, they sound like their devkits are pretty old.
 
B

Barack Lesnar

Banned
Nirolak said:
Just because some people don't like what someone is saying doesn't mean it gets shoved in a dusty corner. I'm sure many of the people complaining wouldn't be if he said it was five times as powerful and I posted that thread, which I would have if he said that as well.
Click to expand...
No doubt about that
 
J

JJConrad

Sucks at viral marketing
Nirolak said:
I don't read the speculation thread, since it's a hundreds of pages long megathread.

Just like we have threads for rumors from major sources, this is a comment straight from a developer, so we have a new thread for it.

Just because some people don't like what someone is saying doesn't mean it gets shoved in a dusty corner. I'm sure many of the people complaining wouldn't be if he said it was five times as powerful and I posted that thread, which I would have if he said that as well.
Click to expand...
I am curious if you listened to the entire interview before making a new thread.
 
Rhazer Fusion

Rhazer Fusion

Member
Nintendo makes great games, but the problem is, they don't believe in cutting edge technology, especially if they are not going to profit from it. If the Wii U is only comparable to current consoles, I will not even be slightly surprised. Question is, what will consumers think when they find out their X360's or PS3 are close in power?
 
D

Durante

Member
SapientWolf said:
A 2.25 increase in every single one of those categories actually represents a pretty substantial gap in terms of GPU generational power. Somewhere around 2-3 generations. But if next gen consoles are really pushing GTX 680 levels of power then a 1080p standard is certainly feasible.
Click to expand...
You are right that it's 2 or 3 GPU generations, so it's 2 or 3 years. 360 is 7 years old now. "680 level power" is ~13x Xenos (360) in raw GPU numbers.

My issue with your original post is the "several magnitudes" part, which I read as "several orders of magnitude". Since an order of magnitude commonly means 10x that just seemed way off.
 
joshwaan

joshwaan

Member
I highly doubt they made it weaker as some are suggesting :p

Anyways it's quite funny reading all these doom and gloom threads.
Reading through most of the rumors sounds like the Wii U is a lot more powerful then current gen, but not to the extent that most of you were hoping. which has been stated many times but others.

I mean the Wii U gotta render 720P and a 480P screen so it's gotta have some grunt.

Anyways at the end of the day guys once ya see F Zero, Wave Race, Mario , Super Smash Bros all in HD looking better then ever you will buy hehe :p
 
H

Hazanko

Banned
If it's the same power as PS3/360, I will personally be disappointed. It really depends on price. It's not worth a high price for a tablet controller alone. I know Nintendo games will look fantastic in HD and I'm sure they'll make them look fantastic. Third party games however will just be ports of games most would have already played. Plus newer games I'm sure will be put on PS4 etc. So is it disappointing if true? Yes. Would it be worth getting for Nintendo HD games? Yes! However, it depends on price.
 
M

Medalion

Banned
People are more wanting to believe this Wii-U will be in line with what they've seen from Nintendo (last gen tech) lately to lower expectations to avoid dissapointment, or to get it over with early. You can't change their minds, only Nintendo can.

This interview only tells me these guys are dissapointed Nintendo haven't been pushing their finalized dev kits to them and they can only do so much with them which is on par with current-gen.

However, even if these kits were more powerful, I bet the devs wouldn't be the ones to push it anyways... they'd wanna make it a port machine anyways.
 
S

Sadist

Member
Rhazer Fusion said:
Nintendo makes great games, but the problem is, they don't believe in cutting edge technology, especially if they are not going to profit from it. If the Wii U is only comparable to current consoles, I will not even be slightly surprised. Question is, what will consumers think when they find out their X360's or PS3 are close in power?
Click to expand...
Depends on what a consumer values.

We've all seen what happened during the reveal and release of the Wii*

* History could very well not repeat itself. Or maybe it will!!??
 
R

Ryuuga

Banned
Nirolak said:
I like Nintendo's games and intend to buy one eventually. If people really want, I can try and find a camera to take a picture of my pretty healthily sized Wii game collection.
Click to expand...

Nirolak, you're awesome, but we both know you have to swear fealty to Miyamoto and be branded with the Nintendo seal of quality before most in this thread believe you aren't out to condemn Wii-U and forthcoming Nintendo efforts.
 
E

ElFly

Member
SapientWolf said:
A 2.25 increase in every single one of those categories actually represents a pretty substantial gap in terms of GPU generational power. Somewhere around 2-3 generations. But if next gen consoles are really pushing GTX 680 levels of power then a 1080p standard is certainly feasible.
Click to expand...

Besides, that 2.25 increase it's only true if you keep everything else exactly the same.
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
Rhazer Fusion said:
Nintendo makes great games, but the problem is, they don't believe in cutting edge technology, especially if they are not going to profit from it.
Click to expand...
You mean, in one single console in their entire history they decided not to use "cutting edge technology". That to me doesn't equal "they don't believe in cutting edge technology".
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
guek said:
Mike Capps also has a very ambitious outlook when it comes to PS4/Nextbox. Whether it's well founded or just his way of pushing for more power is really indeterminable, meaning people shouldn't try to read too much into anything he's saying.
Click to expand...
I would have thought the president of a much used middleware engine, with a strong relationship with MS, would be reasonably in the know about MS's targets for a potential 2013 machine.

A few small adjustments to Capps' quote, and we'd have timewarped to 2005.

"Nintendo is aiming for a point beyond the current generation – they're just not leapfrogging it. One can certainly envision a future a couple years down the road where we have some significantly leapfrogged generation and then the Wii becomes a system that's not easily portable between the other platforms."
 
S

Shion

Member
Dreamwriter said:
You mean, in one single console in their entire history they decided not to use "cutting edge technology". That to me doesn't equal "they don't believe in cutting edge technology".
Click to expand...

Old Nintendo is gone, the last really powerful Nintendo console was released over a decade ago. Today's Nintendo doesn't give a damn about cutting-edge technology.
 
M

Medalion

Banned
Shion said:
Old Nintendo is gone, the last really powerful Nintendo console was released over a decade ago. Today's Nintendo doesn't give a damn about cutting-edge technology.
Click to expand...

Why should they, it's not what the mass market wants, only the tech heads are still a niche market, it cuts costs and makes for (hopefully) better priced console

If people truly wanted whatever was the highest tech, Apple wouldn't be the king of everything right now
 
U

udivision

Member
Shion said:
Old Nintendo is gone, the last really powerful Nintendo console was released over a decade ago. Today's Nintendo doesn't give a damn about cutting-edge technology.
Click to expand...

At least they're still very interested in technology considering their use of motion control, touch screens, and glassesless 3D that none of the major players were bothering with.
 
T

Thoraxes

Member
Based on what I understand, the, you know, the resolution and textures and polycounts and all that stuff, we're not going to being doing anything to uprez the game, but we'll take advantage of the controller for sure.
Click to expand...

To me it just sounds like they don't want to do any extra work outside of using the controller.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
JJConrad said:
I am curious if you listened to the entire interview before making a new thread.
Click to expand...

Of course. <3 Darksiders.

darksiderszqyfi.png
 
D

DefectiveReject

Banned
Shion said:
Old Nintendo is gone, the last really powerful Nintendo console was released over a decade ago. Today's Nintendo doesn't give a damn about cutting-edge technology.
Click to expand...

Will Microsoft and Sony be there next gen too, despite having multiple billion dollar losses whilst doing this and watching Nintendo make billions doing next to nothing

PSPV, PS3, XBox360 all at the cutting edge, 3DS and Wii not so much.
I can't see Sony going cutting edge, even if Microsoft decide they want to as they could afford it more.
 
V

Vinci

Danish
JJConrad said:
This is what I hate most about GAF. The mod's deliberately making threads and posts to keep this forum divided and at eachother's throats. This interview was already been discussed and outcome of creating a new topic for it was certain. Now, context is lost and even mocked.


This quote comes from the interview where we first found out that they weren't adding anything visually to the WiiU version above the PS360 versions. It's key to understanding the company's context. It's been argued that the company has changed their tone because they found out that the system actual power. However, their tone changed since they've claimed the system was still more powerful. So the lack of improvements can't be blamed on the system's lack of extra power.

In the interview in the OP, Marvin Donald also states that he is in charge of the game's narrative and when asked about the difficulties of multiplatform development he starts, "Ummm... You know... honestly, it's not real transparent from my perceptive." He's not that involved on the technical side and the company line is that all the versions will look about the same, even the PC version. This simply isn't the guy to make definitive assessments about the system's power from one sentence.
Click to expand...

I knew the moment I read this post that no one - not a single damn person - would quote and respond to it. That it would get lost in the cesspool of nonsense and vomit that constitutes the majority of discourse in this thread. For what it's worth, it's a good, even-handed post. Well done, JJ.
 
O

onipex

Member
JMPerona said:
What I understand from the video is that the game will look the same in all the consoles. They will take advantage of the Wii U controller but they will not implement the graphics, not because they cant but because they DONT WANT to do that.
Click to expand...

That's how I understood it too. I'll be happy when e# comes so we can end all of this.
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Wouldn't it actually cost more to make a system as weak as the 360 than it would be to have more modern chips in the Wii U?
 
G

guek

Banned
shinra-bansho said:
I would have thought the president of a much used middleware engine, with a strong relationship with MS, would be reasonably in the know about MS's targets for a potential 2013 machine.

A few small adjustments to Capps' quote, and we'd have timewarped to 2005.

"Nintendo is aiming for a point beyond the current generation – they're just not leapfrogging it. One can certainly envision a future a couple years down the road where we have some significantly leapfrogged generation and then the Wii becomes a system that's not easily portable between the other platforms."
Click to expand...

XgJvf.jpg
 
V

Vinci

Danish
Gahiggidy said:
Wouldn't it actually cost more to make a system as weak as the 360 than it would be to have more modern chips in the Wii U?
Click to expand...

Oh. Please. Nintendo doesn't care about cutting costs down for an enhanced margin using a long-standing corporate development philosophy. All they care about is pissing off GAF's most ardent tech supporters.
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
Shion said:
Old Nintendo is gone, the last really powerful Nintendo console was released over a decade ago. Today's Nintendo doesn't give a damn about cutting-edge technology.
Click to expand...
And you base that in what...the one game system Nintendo released in their entire history that wasn't "cutting edge"? Oh wait, I'm wrong, the Nintendo TV-Game 6, their first game system, was only Pong quality in the Atari era. Guess you're right.
 
M

Massa

Member
Thoraxes said:
To me it just sounds like they don't want to do any extra work outside of using the controller.
Click to expand...

Using the controller is the only part that requires any kind of significant Wii U-specific work, specially if the CPU/GPU architecture is as easy to use and standard stuff as was claimed before. The game will just look somewhere between the 360 and maxed out PC versions, depending on the Wii U's capabilities.
 
U

udivision

Member
Dreamwriter said:
And you base that in what...the one game system Nintendo released in their entire history that wasn't "cutting edge"? Oh wait, I'm wrong, the Nintendo TV-Game 6, their first game system, was only Pong quality in the Atari era. Guess you're right.
Click to expand...

Wii, DS, and 3DS, I think.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
guek said:
XgJvf.jpg
Click to expand...

Feel free to elaborate beyond a nonsensical image.

People seem to be taking part of Capps quote to indicate the Wii U will be much more powerful than the current generation and that it contradicts the current quote.

When it really it doesn't speak to the measure of technical leap, and they're ignoring the other part where he states that it's conceivable for the Wii U to be left behind its competitors from a technical perspective, resulting in difficulties in multiplatform development.

As others have stated the Wii was beyond the 6th gen consoles, and yet it can still also be considered on par with the XBOX from a technical perspective.
 
N

Nilaul

Member
Seems it might be my first Nintendo Console that I will not get, since I started playing videogames. Which is quite a shock, since Im a die hard Nintendo fanboy. .
 
S

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
Durante said:
You are right that it's 2 or 3 GPU generations, so it's 2 or 3 years. 360 is 7 years old now. "680 level power" is ~13x Xenos (360) in raw GPU numbers.

My issue with your original post is the "several magnitudes" part, which I read as "several orders of magnitude". Since an order of magnitude commonly means 10x that just seemed way off.
Click to expand...
I probably should have said "several times more powerful."

My underlying point was that, based on these developer comments, the Wii-U doesn't appear to be so much more powerful than the 360/PS3 that ports essentially get 1080p and/or 60fps for free.
 
S

Shion

Member
DefectiveReject said:
Will Microsoft and Sony be there next gen too, despite having multiple billion dollar losses whilst doing this and watching Nintendo make billions doing next to nothing

PSPV, PS3, XBox360 all at the cutting edge, 3DS and Wii not so much.
I can't see Sony going cutting edge, even if Microsoft decide they want to as they could afford it more.
Click to expand...

No one knows exactly what they're going to do. What I know is that both Microsoft and Sony have different priorities regarding the demographics they're interested in. So even if they don't go with bleeding edge technology, like they did in this gen, chances are that they'll go more cutting-edge than Nintendo.
 
D

DefectiveReject

Banned
Shion said:
No one knows exactly what they're going to do. What I know is that both Microsoft and Sony have different priorities regarding the demographics they're interested in. So even if they don't go with bleeding edge technology, like they did in this gen, chances are that they'll go more cutting-edge than Nintendo.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't think Sony can afford to. As much as we'd all like them to
I also think the lack of serious uptake of PSV will confirm this with them.
Gamers want games when all is said and done, and the minority want graphics. Just the minority have the loudest voice.
 
I

impact

Banned
DefectiveReject said:
I honestly don't think Sony can afford to. As much as we'd all like them to
I also think the lack of serious uptake of PSV will confirm this with them.
Gamers want games when all is said and done, and the minority want graphics. Just the minority have the loudest voice.
Click to expand...

Reading this thread, I'm not so sure.
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
udivision said:
Wii, DS, and 3DS, I think.
Click to expand...
In what way were DS and especially 3DS not "cutting edge"? Was there another handheld released before the DS that could do 3D in hardware? Sure, the PSP was more powerful, but that doesn't mean anything, in terms of power and abilities the DS was WAY more powerful than the previous generation. And 3DS is definitely what I'd consider cutting edge, it's quite a bit more powerful than PSP, it supports shader effects, its game sizes are measured in gigabytes rather than megabytes, it's powerful enough to look almost current-gen console quality even when rendering to three full screens at once, and of course there's nothing more cutting edge than 3D-without-glasses.

Nintendo has only released one game system that was clearly old tech, and that was the Wii. That's it. One system does not a trend make.
 
V

Vinci

Danish
DefectiveReject said:
I honestly don't think Sony can afford to. As much as we'd all like them to
I also think the lack of serious uptake of PSV will confirm this with them.
Gamers want games when all is said and done, and the minority want graphics. Just the minority have the loudest voice.
Click to expand...

If Sony comes out with some technological marvel with a price tag to match, I will both laugh and cry simultaneously. Vita is at least reasonable from a cost standpoint. Going non-stop into tech progress with another console would be utterly ignorant. Not ambitious, not impressive, not stubbornly progressive. Ignorant.

I hope, for the sake of the company, that they behave reasonably with the PS4.
 
N

Nilaul

Member
Making an console as powerful as PS3, seven years later is truelly a challenging challenge.

It must be really hard challenge selecting a modern processor that has only the power of a ps3, today.

Anyone can help find a graphics card in store that that would give me a ps3?
 
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