Bomber Bob
Banned
eh guys that's how a legal department works
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Square Enix sends cease and desist letter to FF Type 0 translation group
- Thread starter BlackBuzzard
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Regarding the PSP I think it's unique in that it was early in the lifespan when it was first hacked, the ease of which you could hack it and the sheer versatility that CFW provided (much more so than most gaming consoles at the time) made it so prevalent and entwined to the identity of the PSP and those factors only improved as time went on.
ambientmystic
Member
As a member of the PPSSPP emulator team who helped in a small way to get Type 0 fully up and running on the emulator (the x>2 GB combined iso/cso size was causing issues since most PSP games do not exceed the 2 GB barrier, amongst other issues), I'd just like to thank Sky and his team once again for managing to do what Square Enix would not until E3 of this year.
It was a fantranslation that went above beyond the call of duty, the quality impeccable and while the game itself did not live up to my own lofty expectations by the end, I cannot say a single bad thing about the translation itself.
Now, back on topic, does Squeenix have the right to do what they did with their own IP?
Of course they do, by any and all means necessary.
Was this the right way to go about it?
Probably. I'm just glad they took this long and "allowed" it to be released completely into the wild in the first place. That they didn't have legal folk reading up on the state of the fantranslation(s) on sites like NeoGAF and Gbatemp to relay back to their Japanese masters is quite the shocker.
This also remains the only way to play the game in a mobile fashion; either on your iOS/Android device or on a Vita/PSP.
It was a fantranslation that went above beyond the call of duty, the quality impeccable and while the game itself did not live up to my own lofty expectations by the end, I cannot say a single bad thing about the translation itself.
Now, back on topic, does Squeenix have the right to do what they did with their own IP?
Of course they do, by any and all means necessary.
Was this the right way to go about it?
Probably. I'm just glad they took this long and "allowed" it to be released completely into the wild in the first place. That they didn't have legal folk reading up on the state of the fantranslation(s) on sites like NeoGAF and Gbatemp to relay back to their Japanese masters is quite the shocker.
This also remains the only way to play the game in a mobile fashion; either on your iOS/Android device or on a Vita/PSP.
When trying to look at this as level-headed as possible, SE does have the right to issue a C&D whenever they want to, since Type-0 is technically theirs, not the fans.
Of course, issuing a C&D after the patch has been circulated throughout the internet in the past month is absolutely pointless. At this point, the people who would be getting the patch individually is so far and few between the folks that will host and download pre-patched ISOs. And of course, such a decision only has the effect of making SE look hopelessly incompetent (assuming they didn't delay this on purpose, which is another thing entirely).
So yeah, kind of a net-loss for them at this point.
Of course, issuing a C&D after the patch has been circulated throughout the internet in the past month is absolutely pointless. At this point, the people who would be getting the patch individually is so far and few between the folks that will host and download pre-patched ISOs. And of course, such a decision only has the effect of making SE look hopelessly incompetent (assuming they didn't delay this on purpose, which is another thing entirely).
So yeah, kind of a net-loss for them at this point.
Is it possible, maybe, that Square waited so long to send this C&D because they wanted to allow it to make it into the wild.
But, in order to protect future IP and not sent a precedent of allowing this kind of thing to happen, they sent the C&D when it would be essentially useless?
Maybe I'm giving them too much credit.
But, in order to protect future IP and not sent a precedent of allowing this kind of thing to happen, they sent the C&D when it would be essentially useless?
Maybe I'm giving them too much credit.
BibiMaghoo
Member
I can see where they are coming from, but at the same time, it requires more effort to do than most gamers would bother with, and so I can only see it being of very minimal impact should they release the game here. But I guess that is their problem, however small that damage may be, it is financial damage all the same.
The least they could do is offer the people that worked on it something as a measure of goodwill, a thank you for supporting the game, even though their work cannot be used. That would be right I think.
The least they could do is offer the people that worked on it something as a measure of goodwill, a thank you for supporting the game, even though their work cannot be used. That would be right I think.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
My post kind of got ignored.
I very much think this is primarily because the patch includes significant amounts of copyrighted Type-0 code/assets than because SE is concerned an old PSP game is going to eat into their PS4/XBO sales significantly.
There is a good reason fan translations avoid including anything other than the translated text and a way to modify the game. Or, as a more extreme example, why they don't distribute/link to the game in question.
Sky outright said that the patch included the duplicate files that appear on each disc, that's how it "merges" the discs even though you only need one of them, and why the filesize of the patch itself is so huge.
The fact SE plans to release the game on another platform some number of years in the future may have also played a small part in this, but I find it extremely hard to believe it's the only reason considering the above.
This also explains why they would have waited until now. It's not like they wouldn't have known about the project, but the way the patching worked wasn't really known about until it released. So they looked at it, went through their necessary red tape and set up their case, and then sent out the C&D.
I very much think this is primarily because the patch includes significant amounts of copyrighted Type-0 code/assets than because SE is concerned an old PSP game is going to eat into their PS4/XBO sales significantly.
There is a good reason fan translations avoid including anything other than the translated text and a way to modify the game. Or, as a more extreme example, why they don't distribute/link to the game in question.
Sky outright said that the patch included the duplicate files that appear on each disc, that's how it "merges" the discs even though you only need one of them, and why the filesize of the patch itself is so huge.
The fact SE plans to release the game on another platform some number of years in the future may have also played a small part in this, but I find it extremely hard to believe it's the only reason considering the above.
This also explains why they would have waited until now. It's not like they wouldn't have known about the project, but the way the patching worked wasn't really known about until it released. So they looked at it, went through their necessary red tape and set up their case, and then sent out the C&D.
artsi
Member
This is right to the point. Patching in text data is maybe bit of a grey area, but including game assets in the package and sharing it publicly is pretty bad and the C&D should've been seen from miles away.
sechsterangriff
Member
I honestly don't see the point in this. It's not like the patch is going to disappear from the internet and the enthusiast crowd that usually follows these projects will forget it exists or how to obtain it.
They didn't release the game in English before because it didn't make financial sense, but they're going to do it now when it does for them. So they issue a C&D because that's what legal does, specially when you have an official release coming up. They have done it in the past with other different fan projects that were even less related to an actual product release, it's in their right since it's their work and they're far from the only company to do it (see Nintendo). Also, consider chaosblade post above.
We don't know the exact reasons or why the C&D wasn't issued before the translation was completed but, since it wasn't, everyone interested in the fan-translatation will still be able to enjoy it since it's out in the wild. I don't understand the outrage.
We don't know the exact reasons or why the C&D wasn't issued before the translation was completed but, since it wasn't, everyone interested in the fan-translatation will still be able to enjoy it since it's out in the wild. I don't understand the outrage.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Oh well, the translation is already out, so fuck 'em. This will only end up providing more attention to it anyway, so enjoy fruitlessly pissing your fans off even more, SE!
It was supposed to be an example regarding companies issuing C&Ds for different projects not directly related to an actual product release (like a Zelda fan-movie not being related to a Zelda game being released), not about companies issuing C&Ds for fan translations.sörine;121583734 said:
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Well, PC can play Watch Dogs.
Square really grosses me out sometimes. I can't really think of another time that fan translation team got a C&D that I know of.
Thanks for all YOUR hard work as well! Love playing my PSP games in HD on my Shield! I wonder if this one would work ok...
Also, is this fan translation a FULL translation?
Thanks for all YOUR hard work as well! Love playing my PSP games in HD on my Shield! I wonder if this one would work ok...
Also, is this fan translation a FULL translation?
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Absolutely complete. The quality is professional-tier, too.
I get where all the "SQEnix is evil, rar" comments are coming from, but I can't really see it that way. They're not so oblivious that they only learned of the translation project just now. However, they waited until now to C&D it. The only possible way this makes sense in my head is that they wanted to C&D it out of principle, but also wanted it / didn't mind it out in the wild. There's no other reason to wait so long.
So I see it as an image thing, basically. Even if they want to support these folks, they know they oughtn't, so they take this approach, knowing full well that it affects exactly nothing except perception.
So I see it as an image thing, basically. Even if they want to support these folks, they know they oughtn't, so they take this approach, knowing full well that it affects exactly nothing except perception.
After beating the game I can believe this one. If it's simply a port with HD graphics and textures with the same difficulty balance and battle system they probably prefer that people don't play it on PSP first, haha.
People talk about it here as if it was the Final Fantasy savior. I guess people saying this have not played the game at all. It's more or less a pretty half baked game with huge design flaws.
Oh man, you may be right. I think that would explain why the added bit of "I may need your help more than ever" or whatever is at the end. I really hope Squeenix isn't pissed enough to actually come after the guy. If this is the case, the dude should have just released it very quietly on a torrent site or something.
That is great to know! For some reason I was under the impression that he had to rush it out so it was incomplete. In that case, screw you Square. I'll play this on the go.
I keep seeing this brought up whenever anything involving a C&D and Square Enix is brought up. Do you honestly think a small group of fans were capable of creating a good, complete Chrono Trigger remake in 3D in a reasonable amount of time? I've seen a lot of fan projects with impressive trailers that weren't C&D'd and a lot fewer actual completed projects.
Japanmanx3
Member
I'll try playing Devil's Advocate. What if they announced this knowing that the Translation patch was already in the wild? As some have stated, there a legal implications in these matters more than likely so it would've happened regardless. Especially with HD ver coming (which is not a bad thing at all). So maybe they waited as long they could before having to drop the cease and desist order. Just a thought. Usually seeing sooooo many RPG fan translation get dropped early makes this seem lenient on their part mayhap.
Edit: Ok so I'm not tripping.
Edit: Ok so I'm not tripping.
sixteen-bit
Member
I expected this, tbh. Was only a matter of time.
The whole point is to release the patch with as much publicity as possible so it's out in the hands of people. Of course they had gotten a C&D before this which is why they did this but decided to "ignore it". However they got a second notice meaning that this may actually intimidated them so they decided to take it down.
Legality of payment and employment, etc.
Right but Nintendo has pretty clear standards for what they'll C&D and usually it falls under monetary gain or just explicit piracy. They've never shut down anything like this, not just fan translations but even code/asset heavy hacks and fangames. They still make for a logically bad comparison here, even if you try to extend out the reasoning to any-company-that's-sent-a-C&D-ever-for-anything.
Pretty sure this translation would have garnered tons of attention no matter where or how anonymously it was released. Other than that, I think you're agreeing with me on pretty much everything.
It's really too bad. Especially for retrogames where new localization almost never makes sense for publishers even on new services like PS Classics or Virtual Console. That's an area that seems ideal for publishers to reach out and work with the community.
Just seems like bad PR for SE at this point. The patch is out, so what's the point? I could've understood it (but still not agreed with it) if they decided to do this before it was released, but now? What's the fucking point?
Also, this has the feeling of a minor Streisand effect.
Also, this has the feeling of a minor Streisand effect.
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
It really will come down to what short of treatment Square decides to give this game. If it's just a resolution boost and better textures, the game will look like a joke on the PS4. I wonder if was technically possible to port it on a new engine, re-balance it, fix the flaws etc
I don't know if Sky specifically talked about C&D. He said "That’s right, certain game company thinks that threats and false accusations are the way to treat its biggest fans"
and in the comment section some guy said: La Tortue • 6 minutes ago
Guys, let me clarify that what Sky received is not a C&D letter. It's something else.
I don't know if Sky specifically talked about C&D. He said "That’s right, certain game company thinks that threats and false accusations are the way to treat its biggest fans"
and in the comment section some guy said: La Tortue • 6 minutes ago
Guys, let me clarify that what Sky received is not a C&D letter. It's something else.
It has happened before.
plutoknight
Member
The12thGripper
Member
Little late, but whatever.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Square Enix is basically Shinra company in real life.
IIRC they didn't plan to remake the whole game, but only certain memorable parts of it. They knew that remaking the complete game would be too enormous of a task.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Maybe they scaled things back from the initial trailers but I remember the aim being a "10 favorite scenes of Chrono Trigger" type of affair.
The romhack fanfiction sequel that got C&D on the other hand was a different matter (it got C&D before released, an early beta version was leaked then some years later the full version).
Eh? Don't tell me that FMV had to be subtitled by subsituting the files themselves...ugh...Indie Game the movie "patch" style.
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