• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

German Federal Elections 2017 |OT| Electing the new leader of the free world

Merkel is doing politics without much idealism at all for the last 12 years
and that is a main factor why she is so successful.
don't get into those stupid non relevant arguing topics where everyone just desperately wants to be right and choose a side, so you just have 50% of people anymore who could potentially agree with you
pragmatism, not idealism
that is how basically everyone describes here politics

there is also the FDP when it comes to "real" equality people can vote for
left wing equality is gladly nothing very popular in Germany
 

Cirion

Banned
there is also the FDP when it comes to "real" equality people can vote for
left wing equality is gladly nothing very popular in Germany

The fuck does that even mean? The FDP was and is a crony party for corporate interests and the upper class, which is why the never get a large amount of votes. They NEVER cared about fighting inequality. They always went CDU, save for way back with Brandt/Schmidt, a party of reactionary homophobes and its sister party, the blatantly racist CSU. Civil rights and "equality" are nothing more than a marketing gag for them. Don't know how you can even argue this after the disaster that was 2009-2013 for them.

Merkel is doing politics without much idealism at all for the last 12 years
and that is a main factor why she is so successful.

Yes, people who based politics on the latest polls tend to be successful. Doesn't mean that they are making good policy. The refugee topic was the first time Merkel risked anything, before that, Merkel was nothing more than First Secretary. Despite what I otherwise say about them, Adenauer, Brandt, Kohl, even Schröder had "visions" about what Germany should be and how they wanted to achieve that. Merkel had nothing and continues to have no idea for how to prepare the country for the future instead of simply reacting to the newest crisis. All she did was steal policies from the SPD and the Greens all the time. Climate change, leaving nuclear, minimum wage and many other things.

"don't get into those stupid non relevant arguing topics where everyone just desperately wants to be right and choose a side, so you just have 50% of people anymore who could potentially agree with you
pragmatism, not idealism
that is how basically everyone describes here politics

What you are describing here is not politics or government but administration and not feasible for a major country in the world of today. It's also a reason for the mess the EU is constantly in: Enforcing the Germany-friendly status-quo while blocking all attempts to reform it, even by liberal centrist Macron.
 

Eylos

Banned
Being The Land of Marx where is The socialist left?

Only social democrats? Or the social democrats are socialists?
 

tirant

Member
Germany is in heavy need in some basic socialist and workers rights policies. The breach between poor and rich and poor is getting unsaistainable.

I just visited the north west part of Germany, and when crossing afterwards to the Netherlands the differences were like night and day. In some areas Germany was looking like a 3rd world country: guettos, abandoned buildings everywhere, outdated infrastructures, horrible and expensive trains, no bike lanes at all, except cars of course, Germans are still horribly obsessed with cars.
 
My opinion has only changed a little bit since the 2013 thread: I hope Merkel wins, but I wouldn't want anything to do with the Pirate Party this time haha. My main complaint with Merkel is LGBT rights, so I'm glad the Greens are making it one of their main conditions. I hope more good ideas come out of this election.
 
Germany is in heavy need in some basic socialist and workers rights policies. The breach between poor and rich and poor is getting unsaistainable.

I just visited the north west part of Germany, and when crossing afterwards to the Netherlands the differences were like night and day. In some areas Germany was looking like a 3rd world country: guettos, abandoned buildings everywhere, outdated infrastructures, horrible and expensive trains, no bike lanes at all, except cars of course, Germans are still horribly obsessed with cars.

One could also argue that Unions working together with politics and companies is one of the main reasons Germany wasn't hit that hard by the financial crisis 8 years ago. You can see what happens when Unions go full socialist in U.K.
 

Des0lar

will learn eventually
With "idealist" faction, you probably mean the faction where people still care about any values at instead of going full centrist-conservative. The backlash about the Greens daring to insist on keeping discrimination of gay people out of a possible coalition is telling, and disgusting. Minority rights are not a bargaining chip.

Palmer is pure scum. He advocates letting refugees starve or drown or push them back at the border with violence. He likes to see himself in the media because he speculates about a bigger role on a federal level. He is the green KT zu Guttenberg, a photogenic, fundamentally empty and reactionary person looking out for advancing his career only.

Kretschmann is just a CDU guy who caves in to every single demand by the industry. Really, why the fuck do you want to Green Party to turn into a CDU 2.0? Caring about social justice and inequality is "Idealism"? Did you take a look at statistics about inequality, dependance of education on class background, about the horrible situation regarding room to live in every slightly bigger city, the lack of taxation on corporations and the rich class? Those classic green themes that completely abandoned in favor of spineless centrist garbage, which now rightfully bites them in the ass big time. There is no need to vote for them anymore, just vote CDU, it's the same.

By the way, there is no politics without ideology.



Yeah, the lack of knowledge regarding programs and policies of Merkel/CDU/FDP and their past governments is staggering. Their internet/digital policy alone is fucking incompetent, to be very gentle. Many people seem like "Well she isn't crazy as Trump and I guess did good on refugees so we should keep her?"

"


It creates inherited poverty because your children get fucked too, especially if you are a single mom/father. You can barely afford to feed them and buy them needed things for school. Hartz4 set up a giant beureaucray having nothing to do but controll, punish and harass poor and unemployed people. Hartz4 and the Agenda2010 were built upon the neoliberal ideology of poor people being to blame for being poor, they just need to work harder or to pursue jobs more aggressively! It enabled employers and corporations to harass and oppress their workers because they were deathly afraid of losing their job and sliding into the Hartz4 system. They invented the frankly INSANE system of 1 euro-jobs, were unemployed people do jobs that could be done by regular workers and get paid basically nothing, so so they have work, because "work builds character". It's straight out of the 19th century. They constantly throw pointless programs for "further education" at you, where people sit in pointless seminars all day. The main purpose of those is to clean up the unemployment numbers, because people currently in those programs do not count.

The paperwork for Hartz4 and related things is insane. It's one of the reasons the rate of homeless people goes nothing but up, coupled with rising rents. People struggling with abduction and without friends or family fail to comply with the absurd demands of the system so they end up homeless. Sometimes just because the Jobcenter failed to pay the rent. Landlord doesn't care, throws tentant out on the street.
Hartz4, in general, is drastically lower than the former system because they just threw together basic social security for people who can't work anymore with the normal unemployement welfare. You can basically live under a roof and eat, if you are able to find a room, that's it. You are otherwise excluded from society. It's less worse for single people, but it's a catastrophe for families.

Being a recipient of "Hartz4" was and is basically synonymous with being a heroin-addicted criminal even though millions of people are on it. It's one of the most-often used insults in Germany. There is a whole industry of "Hartz4-TV" doing nothing but painting poor people as sort of halfwitted animals who sit on couches in dirty social housing apartments all day and drink beer so the middle class people who watch it can laugh about the stupid poor Hartz4-recipients. It's all fake documentaries. It basically created the German version of GOP voters who rather vote against their interests than those dirty poor getting a bite more from the share. Hating Hartz4-recipients, by the way, is today often coupled with racism because "They all just want our welfare, look at them, they do not want to work, it's just the way those orientals are..." etc.

Hartz4, by the way, is named after Peter Hartz, a former Volkswagen manager, who was a leading member of a commission out of the industry basically writing the neoliberal reform of the job market and welfare state for former chancellor Gerhard Schröder and his government. Yes, leading figures from business world wrote those laws. He was later convicted of corruption and other things. The Social Democrats, like Labour, did never recover from the damage Schröder and his cronies did to them (Schröder went on to be best buddy with Vlad Putin and work for Gazprom, by the way). Greens went centrist to conservative with a green pastiche, but SPD is flailing ever since, between centrism and trying to be a bit left but not really because the Left Party is already there.

People in this thread claiming "Germany is well off" talk about corporations and the upper class. Wages stagnated, inequality rises. Growth and GDP alone are completely pointless to describe how well off a society is. Many people from the poorer parts of society basically just went away and don't take part anymore. Some vote right-wing extremists, millions do not vote at all.

Thank you for this.
I attended a lecture by Stephan Schulmeister,
http://stephan.schulmeister.wifo.ac.at/
who reiterated very similar concerns. The German Wirtschaftswunder being built on the backs of the lower classes, propping up low unemployment via Hartz4 AND 1€ Jobs, but he also mentioned how the German export surplus is hurting Europe (especially since Germany agreed to not exceed some % of surplus but now simply does not seem to care) and how this surplus was created by all these factors.
 

Randam

Member
Never in my life have I been more unsure as for whom I'm gonna vote for.
Except for Linke and AfD. Fuck those.
I hope the Wahl-o-mat will help.
If you aren't going to vote for one of those 2,it doesn't really matter who you give your vote.
The other 4 stand for the same anyways.

Einheitsparteien..
 

scamander

Banned
Hm, that's probably something we disagree on. I guess I'm more of the kind of person that is less about the individual and more about the group (so definitely not typical Western culture). So one couple wanting that doesn't really matter to me if there are enough that simply don't care.

Yes and of course you know exactly what WE want, right? Fuck you.

Julia Klöckner or Ursula von der Leyen
it's funny how the CDU has no real high profile male politician with realistic ambitions anymore

Ursula von der Leyen is not exactly popular and Julia Klöckner is one of the most unlikable politicians right now. The Union would lose many votes with her as front-runner.
 
If you aren't going to vote for one of those 2,it doesn't really matter who you give your vote.
The other 4 stand for the same anyways.

Einheitsparteien..

That may be correct from the perspective of voters of extremist parties who fail to see any nuances between black and white. Else, no, just no.
 

Milchjon

Member
You only need 52k taxable income per year to reach the max. tax rate (single household), it doesn't only affect the rich ones like 20 years ago.

52k ain't nothing, though. Median is like 22k.

1500px-ESt_Statistik_D_Steuerpflichtige_Grundtarif_2010.svg.png
 
As far as I know the Innenpolitik in germany is still heavily dependending on local parliaments elected in the "Landtagswahlen". I really didn't followed the politics that much and I think it is really difficult to differentiate between the SPD and CDU right now because of the coalition in the current term and in the crisis almost a decade ago.
However, the ministery for inner affairs should change, because the politics regarding privacy are heavily changing against citizens right now.
 
52k ain't nothing, though. Median is like 22k.

Approx. 10% of Germans have to pay maximum income tax rate (42%). Those 10% / 4,2 million are also responsible for over 48% of German's overall income tax receipts.

And frankly, you don't have to be CEO to earn that much money, skilled workers (at the very least employed 'Meister') can reach that, too, depending on their industry of course.


http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/so...te-zahlt-den-spitzensteuersatz-a-1143624.html
 

Yoshi88

Member
Merkel is doing politics without much idealism at all for the last 12 years
and that is a main factor why she is so successful.
don't get into those stupid non relevant arguing topics where everyone just desperately wants to be right and choose a side, so you just have 50% of people anymore who could potentially agree with you
pragmatism, not idealism
that is how basically everyone describes here politics

there is also the FDP when it comes to "real" equality people can vote for
left wing equality is gladly nothing very popular in Germany

I generally agree except for one point: same-sex marriage.

I'd vote for her in an instant because of her commendable refugee politics, europe-positivity and pragmatism BUT she's driving me nuts with her "bad gut-feeling" regarding same-sex marriage and adoption rights. Her one emotional view of all is one without logic and the one point where she let's her (unfoundend) emotion dictate her politics. You can be sure, if it weren't for Merkels view shielding the few deep-conservatives in the CDU, we'd already have this solved.

As a gay man in his best years maybe i want to marry my bf in the next 4-5 years and get kids. I can be sure, with a Merkel-led coalition of any kind, this won't be possible. She made that clear at various points in the last years. And it's ridicolous. And sad. And not in the slightest bit pragmatic. It's actively hurtful to minorities rights.

(edit. Oh yeah, CSU- those horrible ill-viewed extremists - is also that one little tiny point, that makes the CDU unelectable for me. But that should be clear.)
 

scamander

Banned
Approx. 10% of Germans have to pay maximum income tax rate (42%). Those 10% / 4,2 million are also responsible for over 48% of German's overall income tax receipts.

And frankly, you don't have to be CEO to earn that much money, skilled workers (at the very least employed 'Meister') can reach that, too, depending on their industry of course.


http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/so...te-zahlt-den-spitzensteuersatz-a-1143624.html

Poor people are hit unproportionally hard by consumption taxes and can, other than the 10% you are talking about, often not make vacations or participate in social/ cultural activities, because of that. They are also the ones that would suffer in case well-off people are financially relieved further. All the 10% you are advocating have to cope with is a slightly different number on their bank account. The horror!
 
Poor people are hit unproportionally hard by consumption taxes and can, other than the 10% you are talking about, often not make vacations or participate in social/ cultural activities, because of that. They are also the ones that would suffer in case well-off people are financially relieved further. All the 10% you are advocating have to cope with is a slightly different number on their bank account. The horror!

What I am saying is that those 10% already pay a decent share of German's tax receipts, and they are usually the ones creating or being responsible for jobs. There needs to be a balance for sure, and we can of course argue that the "real" rich ones (>250.000€ income / year) should be held even more responsible, but it's not like higher earners in Germany don't pay their share.

Besides, I was born in a role model working class family (my father never graduated and was an unskilled, but diligent mason), so no need of telling me how it is not being able to afford nice things.
 

Haunted

Member
Groko being a center coalition makes it really hard for not-fringe parties to gain ground.

Greens have trouble differentiating themselves.

AfD is for the German alt-right and Nazi remnants and will never amount to much more than a minority 7%-party no one else respects and will work with.

Die Linke is a fringe party and will remain one for the foreseeable future.

FDP is doing a fairly good job at establishing themselves as an actually electable alternative to the GroKo with a charismatic and eloquent chairman. But at heart, they still remain the rich people party and won't crack 10%.


Merkel's got this election on lockdown, although I expect the numbers between her and Schulz to become closer as the campaign goes on. But in these times of uncertainty and turmoil (refugees, decline of USA, Brexit), a proven and internationally well-liked leader like Merkel is the one people will turn to.

Mutti's gonna do it again, anything else would be a monumental surprise. I expect more GroKo, alternatively Jamaica (unlikely), maybe Schwarz-Gelb if math allows (even more unlikely) and Lindner wants it (oh boy he'll want it).
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Germany is in heavy need in some basic socialist and workers rights policies. The breach between poor and rich and poor is getting unsaistainable.

I just visited the north west part of Germany, and when crossing afterwards to the Netherlands the differences were like night and day. In some areas Germany was looking like a 3rd world country: guettos, abandoned buildings everywhere, outdated infrastructures, horrible and expensive trains, no bike lanes at all, except cars of course, Germans are still horribly obsessed with cars.

Some people in this thread must live in a parallel reality. Reading stuff like this, one might get the impression that Germany is home to ruthless Manchester-style capitalism, where 99% of the people are dying from poisonous hard-labour factory jobs in their twenties, are starving to death, or die on the streets immediately when they are struck by unforeseen hardships. Nothing is farther from the truth.

I was raised by a poor single mom. Her parents had migrated from another European country. They cam from a village that before the 1990ties didn't even have electricity or running water. Germany not only has given her great affordable/free health care when she needed it, it gave me a world-class education for free and it provided me with social upward mobility that is flat-out impossible in most other countries in the world.

Sorry, I am to poor to vote FDP! I dont make 10 grands a month!

Could you be anymore shallow. There are many reasons to vote for a liberal party. For instance, because you agree with their core value of self-responsibility, or you agree with their focus on education as primary engine of social mobility. Or because you think that it is antisocial that Germany has to use 8-10% of its federal budget just to serve the interests of our massive national debt; a debt which almost all other parties would love to increase to finance their campaign promises.
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
No, it's not. Especially not among migrants.
There are plenty of studys that say that you are wrong here. Its every few months a big topic in the media.

Edit: I am more looking at your case as a child/teen of course

Could you be anymore shallow. There are many reasons to vote for a liberal party. For instance, because you agree with their core value of self-responsibility, or you agree with their focus on education as primary engine of social mobility. Or because you think that is antisocial that Germany has to pay 8-10% of its federal budget just to serve the interests of our massive national debt; a debt which almost all other parties would love to increase to finance their campaign promises.

Yeah, a shallow response to a shallow post. If I could look over all the neoliberal shit coming from the FDP, maybe your points would be worth considering for me.
 

scamander

Banned
Funny how his entire career got flushed down the toilet because he faked parts of his phd thesis and other politicians still roam the political stage after being bribed (Schäuble) etc.

Well, he doesn't get any sympathy from me. Especially not after appearing on Fox News.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
That is of course very good for you but sadly totally uncommon.
it actually is not. Germany offers a lot of ways to get (free) education. I got from the Hauptschule (worst school degree you can have in Germany) to a diploma in engineering, for free. Actually I even got paid while getting my Highschool diploma (don't have to pay back anything).

Well, he doesn't get any sympathy from me. Especially not after appearing on Fox News.
What did he say?
 

scamander

Banned
Could you be anymore shallow. There are many reasons to vote for a liberal party. For instance, because you agree with their core value of self-responsibility, or you agree with their focus on education as primary engine of social mobility.

Too bad our education system separates kids at the age of 10 (12 in Berlin) into socioeconomically homogeneous groups and there is very little upwards mobility once your secondary school is chosen. Don't know if this figure is still up to date, but a few years back there was a report saying your chances visiting a Gymnasium* are seven times higher if your parents have an academic background.

*=Germany's most advanced school, whose degree is necessary to visit a university.
 
The rhetoric here is quite ridiculous. Dunno if it because some people are still pretty young and or drinking the koolaid of some of the extreme parties.
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
it actually is not. Germany offers a lot of ways to get (free) education. I got from the Hauptschule (worst school degree you can have in Germany) to a diploma in engineering, for free. Actually I even got paid while getting my Highschool diploma (don't have to pay back anything).
I know, I am german and live in germany. Thats why I hear all the time of the studys that show that lower class children have a hard time to move in upper classes

Edit: https://www.swr.de/international/mi...334/did=17500316/nid=233334/8dg2ot/index.html
 

Cirion

Banned
Funny how his entire career got flushed down the toilet because he faked parts of his phd thesis and other politicians still roam the political stage after being bribed (Schäuble) etc.

It was also his constant lying, looking for excuses, using the deaths of soldiers in Afghanistan to deflect from his scandal, and by then people took a closer look at Guttenberg and essentially came to the conclusion that he was a transparent fraud: Trying to paint himself as possible chancellor down the line with absurd photo sessions in Afghanistan and on Times Square, his wife and him behaving like they were in American primaries all while turning out to be rather incompetent at his job (handling of the Kunduz bombing: Just blame and fire everyone under your position)

Today he is busy making reactionary comments from the sideline and getting jobs via nepotism. Apparently Seehofer wants to bring him back for the election campaign. Fuck those guys.
 

Cirion

Banned
it actually is not. Germany offers a lot of ways to get (free) education. I got from the Hauptschule (worst school degree you can have in Germany) to a diploma in engineering, for free. Actually I even got paid while getting my Highschool diploma (don't have to pay back anything).

What's your socio-economic background? Sorry, but this sounds a bit like "I grew up in the Bronx and still went to Harvard so everyone can do it, just believe and work hard"

Facts to social mobility in Germany:

https://www.bertelsmann-stiftung.de...-abhaengig-von-sozialer-herkunft-und-wohnort/

http://www.zeit.de/2013-01/studie-herkunft-aufstieg

http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/studienfoerderung/12727.pdf

Edit: Accidental DP

Some people in this thread must live in a parallel reality. Reading stuff like this, one might get the impression that Germany is home to ruthless Manchester-style capitalism, where 99% of the people are dying from poisonous hard-labour factory jobs in their twenties, are starving to death, or die on the streets immediately when they are struck by unforeseen hardships. Nothing is farther from the truth.

I was raised by a poor single mom. Her parents had migrated from another European country. They cam from a village that before the 1990ties didn't even have electricity or running water. Germany not only has given her great affordable/free health care when she needed it, it gave me a world-class education for free and it provided me with social upward mobility that is flat-out impossible in most other countries in the world.

Nice strawman you have there. Facts about social mobility in Germany speak another language. Arguments like "It's worse elsewhere, so shut up" are bullshit. The absurd increase in "Zeitarbeit", limited and low-paid jobs are objective facts and direct consequences of the Agenda 2010. THEY are the reason why liberal and conservative can claim that "Agenda worked, unemployment is down" without acknowledging that a massive sector of precarious employment came out of it and and those numbers possible, coupled with the government being able to force everyone to take every job, regardless of the payment and conditions. Have you ever worked in this sector? I have, and it's inhumane and exploitative. Your entire post sounds like a typical "Fuck you got mine".
 

Irminsul

Member
Don't know if this figure is still up to date, but a few years back there was a report saying your chances visiting a Gymnasium* are seven times higher if your parents have an academic background.
But there's more than one possible cause for this. For example, I'm from a family with an academic background, and there wasn't even a discussion whether I would go to a Gymnasium or not. Of course I did. In contrast, my parents got their A-level at an Abendgymnasium while being taxi drivers, because their parents never went to university. And a friend of mine went to a Hauptschule, mostly because that was what his parents did. He now has a master's degree in computer science.

So the reason for this statistic isn't some nefarious blocking of children with a non-academic background, it's that there often just isn't another possibility for children with said background. And you can't really prevent that.
 
I know, I am german and live in germany. Thats why I hear all the time of the studys that show that lower class children have a hard time to move in upper classes

Edit: https://www.swr.de/international/mi...334/did=17500316/nid=233334/8dg2ot/index.html

It's more complicated than that, as each federal state has its own school rules.

For example, in some states elementary schools write a recommendation which secondary school is best suited for the pupil, but it's ultimatively the decision of the parents which school their kid visits.

In Bavaria however you need at least a 2,2 exam (1: very good - 6: unsufficient) to visit a Gymnasium / academic high school. There's basically nothing parents can do if grades are worse.

That more kids from academics visit a Gymnasium has - at the end of the day - quite a couple of reasons, from social and biological habitus up to teachers in elementary schools giving children from academics better grades, which - believe me - is also a thing.
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
It's more complicated than that, as each federal state has its own school rules.

For example, in some states elementary schools write a recommendation which secondary school is best suited for the pupil, but it's ultimatively the decision of the parents which school their kid visits.

In Bavaria however you need at least a 2,2 exam (1: very good - 6: unsufficient) to visit a Gymnasium / academic high school. There's basically nothing parents can do if grades are worse.

That more kids from academics visit a Gymnasium has - at the end of the day - quite a couple of reasons, from social and biological habitus up to teachers in elementary schools giving children from academics better grades, which - believe me - is also a thing.

You are of course right, my point is just, thats not true when someone says that there is a social upward mobility that is impossible in many other countries in the world, especially among migrants.
 
You are of course right, my point is just, thats not true when someone says that there is a social upward mobility that is impossible in many other countries in the world, especially among migrants.

Of course, and I am just another a living proof for that. I even had to argue with my father why on earth I want to visit the Gymnasium, and he got mocked by his friends in our local pub because I did, as their kids - and basically all my friends and brothers - went to the Hauptschule. So I know exactly how hard it is to move upwards in the system if there isn't an internal or external driver.

Thing is, it is possible!
 

Cirion

Banned
But there's more than one possible cause for this. For example, I'm from a family with an academic background, and there wasn't even a discussion whether I would go to a Gymnasium or not. Of course I did. In contrast, my parents got their A-level at an Abendgymnasium while being taxi drivers, because their parents never went to university. And a friend of mine went to a Hauptschule, mostly because that was what his parents did. He now has a master's degree in computer science.

So the reason for this statistic isn't some nefarious blocking of children with a non-academic background, it's that there often just isn't another possibility for children with said background. And you can't really prevent that.

So your argument against social background being mostly responsible for success in education is....that's it on the background, but somehow different? Come on now.
 

scamander

Banned
So the reason for this statistic isn't some nefarious blocking of children with a non-academic background, it's that there often just isn't another possibility for children with said background. And you can't really prevent that.

Of course you can prevent that. Just let everyone go to the same school, like it's common in other countries. It's not rocket science.
 

ilium

Member
There is a curious requirement for germans living abroad wanting to take part in elections.
You either have to have lived for 3+months in germany until the age of 14, or

You must have become “familiar” personally “with the political situation” in the Federal Republic of Germany directly and because of what you have experienced. Passively participating in communication, for instance by consuming German-language media abroad, does not suffice.

Your being “affected by the political situation” may result from the fact that you are currently subject to German sovereignty, but it is not restricted to that. Source

I have never seen this before so I wonder if it is new or if I've just read over it all this time.

Germans also have to request the Auslandswahlschein prior to every election because:

German expatriates are not obliged to inform the German authorities about residential moves, births of children, or deaths. Consequently, the population register data are not reliable. Part of the postal ballot documents sent by post may not be received by the addressees when addresses have changed or they may even fall into the wrong hands. Source

As an american in order to vote from abroad you:

must register with local election officials in your state of legal voting residence AND each year request an absentee ballot. You can use the Federal Post Card Application (FPCA) to do both. Submit a new FPCA early each year, every time you move, and whenever you change your address, email, or name. Source

I don't really have a point, I just thought it was interesting ^^
 

AmFreak

Member
Of course you can prevent that. Just let everyone go to the same school, like it's common in other countries. It's not rocket science.
Isn't that what is happening though?
Hauptschule after Hauptschule and to a lesser extent Realschulen get closed in favor of Gesamtschulen.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
What's your socio-economic background? Sorry, but this sounds a bit like "I grew up in the Bronx and still went to Harvard so everyone can do it, just believe and work hard"

Facts to social mobility in Germany:

https://www.bertelsmann-stiftung.de...-abhaengig-von-sozialer-herkunft-und-wohnort/

http://www.zeit.de/2013-01/studie-herkunft-aufstieg

http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/studienfoerderung/12727.pdf

The fact is you can at any stage in life start your academic career in Germany regardless of social background if you wish to do it. Would it be easier to go straight to the gymnasium? Yeah. But that's (in my case) because my parents never educated me what i would benifit from going there nor making sure I was good enough a student to go there at the time.

I am a son of migrants. My parents only wanted me to do the Hauptschule and get a job. That was their duty to me. At the age of 20 is said fuck this shit I'm going back to school. Without backing of my parents.

I have a son now and I will do my best to support him to get the same academic satus I have now, if it's his wish. My parents just didn't know better at the time.

The school system is not perfect, but it is not as fucked as some of you make it out to be.
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
The school system is not perfect, but it is not as fucked to as some of you make it out to be.

1. anecdotes are always not the best argument for national issues.
2. nobody says that its fucked up. We are pointing out flaws. I have the opinion that we have a very good school system that is actually pictured as pretty broken by many but not actually is, but its of course not perfect.
3. how you will handle it is great, but there are many poor people who have to work so much that they cant help their kids. These people need help, may it be through cupons for tutors or something else, stuff, that parents of rich kids can usually easy afford. There are already programs for this in place, but there is still more funding needed.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
1. anecdotes are always not the best argument for national issues.
2. nobody says that its fucked up. We are pointing out flaws. I have the opinion that we have a very good school system that is actually pictured as pretty broken by many but not actually is, but its of course not perfect.
3. how you will handle it is great, but there are many poor people who have to work so much that they cant help their kids. These people need help, may it be through cupons for tutors or something else, stuff, that parents of rich kids can usually easy afford. There are already programs for this in place, but there is still more funding needed.

Well I was asked about my background.

You are right a lot needs to be done. I got cough up in thinking that some argue that's it's impossible to get education if from a certain Social background. That's what I wanted to proof wrong.

I'm totally with you regarding support of the youth. The Kita situation in Germany is a fucking shame so is tutoring all around.
 

Xando

Member
3. how you will handle it is great, but there are many poor people who have to work so much that they cant help their kids. These people need help, may it be through cupons for tutors or something else, stuff, that parents of rich kids can usually easy afford. There are already programs for this in place, but there is still more funding needed.
Good thing this help is already available and has been 10 years ago(i know since i used it back in Realschule).

My mom raised me as a single parent who couldn't work much due to health issues. I didn't even have money for for school food so i got coupons.
Yet i still made it from the Realschule via Fachhochschulreife to university and studied computer science without payinf a cent and living on hartz 4.
 
Top Bottom