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Are non-whites generally perceived as whites still non-whites ?
- Thread starter Golden_Pigeon
- Start date
gutter_trash
Banned
that is the new definition;
Napoleon used the old definition to describe Latin based countries
AcademicSaucer
Member
Sora the Cat
Member
Brazil is in Latin America, therefore he is Latino. I am Latino too, just because I'm from Argentina.
I'm from Brazil and to me it was more a way of giving my US friends a less incorrect term to use, because I was getting fed up with them saying "you look hispanic" whenever we talked about race (Brazilians are not hispanic in any sense of the word).
Like it or not, the terms latino, hispanic and Mexican are used interchangeably by a lot of people online when talking about a "certain look", so I'd rather people use latino instead of the other two when they talk about my race.
I feel this comic is relevant to this thread:
https://www.vox.com/2015/8/19/9173457/hispanic-latino-comic
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3979404/6.0.jpg)
This is one of the biggest problems with race relations today, where the monolithic use of the terms white and person of color are used to describe groups that are, pardon the pun, not simply black and white. What white means to one person is different than what it means to another and too often the term is broadly applied to people who don't comfortably self-identify as white. For instance the recent push for racial equality at my university struggled for a while because there was a regrettable, and pretty illogical, distinction made between people of color and racial minorities as a whole. The main group that took on the school administration did a good job of representing black, latinx, and native american students but inadvertently did not represent asian, middle eastern, and other international students. It led to a lot of toxic discourse, to the point where black students were attempting to demonstrate they were more discriminated against than a few Bosnian and Serbian Muslims. The discourse went against the cause of intersectionality, which had been the entire point of the group when it first organized! The group, after lots of intense debate, ultimately did do a better job of representing all racial minority students, but much of the positive energy and enthusiasm was lost after the group meant to help marginalized students ended up marginalizing others.
Bottom line: If someone says their being discriminated against, listen to them
Bottom line: If someone says their being discriminated against, listen to them
I'm half-Black Canadian half-English Canadian and am white passing. I'm like that rapper Logic. I personally identify as being Black more than I consider myself white, though I recognize I have white privilege. Generally my experience has been that most people think I'm white until I mention being half-Black, and then from then on I'm Black. Every once and a while I will get the "what's your background" question though, since some people will recognize my facial features are not quite White, but are not identifiably Black either. People will often tell me that they now can see a little bit of the Black in me after I tell them, but I never know if they're lying or not.
Other Black people have always treated my as a part of the Black community and of the larger Black diaspora after they find out I'm half.
Other Black people have always treated my as a part of the Black community and of the larger Black diaspora after they find out I'm half.
In the city of Monterrey, there's an absurd, ridiculous amount of classism. White mexicans, just out of the fact that they're white, have a clear eye color, or have blond hair are automatically assumed to be rich, nicer and kinder. It's abhorrently stupid and short-sighted.
Basically if you're a blond guy here you're set for life and dating comes easy. If you're a blond woman you automatically get to be high class. Even moreno people shit on other moreno people --which is stupid because this is Mexico and everyone is moreno. It's stupid
Poltergust
Member
I'm fully Hispanic but everything about me can pass off as white, from my voice to my skin tone to even my name (last name is European).
Since people really only care about the superficial aspects of being white I usually don't have to worry about anything.
Since people really only care about the superficial aspects of being white I usually don't have to worry about anything.
ghostofsparta
Member
Indeed... maybe it is just a US thing 🤔
I invite you to read the rest of the thread
There's a key fallacy in the OP's question since the question includes an assumption that already determines the answer. You assume that "non-white" is a real, biological category independent of "general perception." It's attempting to pass itself off as the equivalent of asking: if the color red is generally perceived as blue is it still red? You'd be relying on some universal truth about the color red that is independent of "general perception." But race is not a universal, biological, scientific truth. It is a social relation.
I think the OP meant instead something more like: "Do people who are generally perceived as white identify as non-white?" In which case, the answer is a resounding and unequivocal yes.
I think the OP meant instead something more like: "Do people who are generally perceived as white identify as non-white?" In which case, the answer is a resounding and unequivocal yes.
gutter_trash
Banned
Latino has nothing to do with race but cultural grouping in a geographical location who's main language is Latin based
Old definition: From a Romance Language country.
New definition: From any Spanish language country and the only Portuguese language country in the Americas but excluding French for some odd reason.
I know. It doesn't stop people from using it to denote race, is what I'm saying, and if they're going to do it anyway I'd rather they use latino than hispanic.
Secret Fawful
Member
I'm a white Latino with a brown Mexican biological father, dark hair, and somewhat olive skin. I used to think I got by as a white kid, but it turned out people around me are constantly questioning my ethnicity/race behind my back, whether I'm Mexican, Middle Eastern, or Asian. Once they find out my ancestry is Mexican, their whole attitude changes. It happens almost all the time. That's not counting the people I run into who try to get me to ignore or discount my heritage because it makes THEM uncomfortable.
The vast majority of white people I meet where I live are ignorant and think Mexican/Latino/Hispanic is a race, and view me as a non-white race either before or after learning my ethnicity. I try to tell people otherwise but most of the time they don't care. All they care about is whether I'm what they consider white or not.
The vast majority of white people I meet where I live are ignorant and think Mexican/Latino/Hispanic is a race, and view me as a non-white race either before or after learning my ethnicity. I try to tell people otherwise but most of the time they don't care. All they care about is whether I'm what they consider white or not.
lightskintwin
Banned
The Mexican "illegal immigration" issues that's been going on for decades has played a significant part in "racializing" Hispanic/Latinos.
Bruh, I'm a quarter Japanese and literally nobody ever guesses I'm part Asian, however as soon as i tell them or they find out, they say the same shit about how they can see it in my eyes or some other feature. I swear they're lying to me. LOL
For some reason I thought Brazil was unique though.
Harken Raiser
Banned
I'm half white and half Vietnamese. Some people can tell I'm mixed, others assume I'm white, but the ones who can tell will be quick to correct the ones who think I'm white. I identify as both White and Asian, so generally, when I'm around White people they think of me as the Asian guy, and when I'm around minorities they consider me to be the White guy.
Yup. Loose-lipped -> oops -> blood rushes to face -> somehow blames you
Yeah I usually assume it's bullshit too haha. I'm like "uh huh". That said, if you put me next to a regular white dude, you can tell something is sorta different. I don't have the white nose or thin ass lips
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I'm white as hell but my name is GLARINGLY Hispanic which throws people off. I think I confuse diet racists
... Well, can you post more?
gutter_trash
Banned
Brazil is the only Lusitanic country in Latin America
Baron von Loathsome
Member
This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. My dad is a Colombian immigrant and my mom is an American-born white woman, and as a result, I'm super white-looking, white-acting guy with a Hispanic surname. As a result, I don't believe I've ever been the subject of any sort of racial mockery for my Hispanic side, and the only such mockery I've experienced for my white side was when a Mexican-American friend of mine accused me of voting for Trump last year (bear in mind, he's a Republican and I'm a bleeding heart).
Me being a bleeding heart Hispanic living in Trump's America, though, I can't help but take interest in America's racial politics, but I don't have the personal experience to bring to the table. There are discussions to be had about the place someone like me occupies in American society, but it seems those discussions aren't seen as quite as important, perhaps for good reason.
Me being a bleeding heart Hispanic living in Trump's America, though, I can't help but take interest in America's racial politics, but I don't have the personal experience to bring to the table. There are discussions to be had about the place someone like me occupies in American society, but it seems those discussions aren't seen as quite as important, perhaps for good reason.
Haha. When you Google image search "<enthnicity> man" you get a lot of ridiculously good looking people pop up.
IrishNinja
Member
could you get into this a bit? i'm interested to hear more
lightskintwin
Banned
Well the odd thing is a lot of Asian American women are attracted to me for some reason.... Hmmmmmmm.... Since I'm part of the African American community, you get such a wide net of facial features, simply due to all of the race mixtures with Black that have left their bi racial children to marry back into African American partners that I really don't stand out. Sure I get called White boy, Lite Brite, Powder, etc... but it's usually just joking and terms of endearment as we mutually roast Light skin and Dark skin Black folks.
Click this post that I already posted in this thread.
The usage of these terms is also contextual. In the west coast of the US, if you call a Spanish speaking person Hispanic, be prepared to get chewed out. To them, Hispanic refers to being from Spain, which means Western European, colonization, etc. They'll prefer Latino/a or Chicano/a. Growing up in Cali, Hispanic was often viewed the same as negroe: an outdated term for PoC that is borderline racist.
But in NY, Hispanic is much more accepted.
gutter_trash
Banned
the term Hispanic is linguistic;
not all Spaniards are Hispanic since some identify as Catalan, Galician or Leonese and more
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Having spent all my life in southern California, I have never heard of the term Hispanic being considered racist. But perhaps that's just me.
Like I said, it was seen as more of an outdated term. I grew up in Northen Cali with a lot of migrant worker population and lived in LA for almost 10 years, and in my experience the folks who primarily used Hispanic were older folks. Chicano and Latino were the preferred terms (outside of Mexican). This was in the 80s and 90s though, I moved out here in 2000, so maybe things have changed.
Yes I know, but not all Americans know about all the various delineations of Spainiards. I was lucky into that regard because one of my best friends in HS was an exchange student from the Basque region, so l learned about that fairly early.
EatinOlives
Member
Yep, at most people think I'm Spanish.
openrob
Member
The way I learnt it was that Whiteness is the 'normal' person. Less to do with colour than you might think.
Travelers are not 'white', goths aren't, neither are poor working class from the estates. Neither are the Polish immigrants.
Whiteness is the 'normal' middle class British person.
As a side note, this is why I used to disagree with the concept of Whiteness and white privilege - because as a 'white' person from a shit background I faced similar discrimination as 'non-whites'. White privilege was not my experience. Then I realised that Whiteness is about a culture as much as a colour abs they weren't talking about me.
PaulExcellent
Member
I'm mixed Panamanian/Puerto Rican and I "look Italian/Jewish/Middle Eastern" depending on the person, I guess.
It's nice cause sometimes, when the light is just right, I can go outside and not be treated like a regular dude.
It's nice cause sometimes, when the light is just right, I can go outside and not be treated like a regular dude.
Im Mexican, pretty pale/caucasian faced, but there is at least native, african, spaniard and jewish blood in my veins, yet one of my brothers is pretty much black, much like my grandfather on my father's side, i think about this a lot, because i see some people think that you don't "count" as white if you are of mixed heritage (which means even the most white looking mexican is not white since like 99% of the country is of mixed heritage of at least natives, spaniards and africans), while some people think you don't count as POC if you look white.
Its basically something that dependes on your political leanings, i have seen people call Guillermo Del Toro a "Person of Color" and he might as well be Kevin Smith's cousin in the way of looking white.
It also works about other races and ethnicities matters too, i have seen people claim suddenly Lupita Nyong'o doesn't count as mexican beacuse REASONS!
Its basically something that dependes on your political leanings, i have seen people call Guillermo Del Toro a "Person of Color" and he might as well be Kevin Smith's cousin in the way of looking white.
It also works about other races and ethnicities matters too, i have seen people claim suddenly Lupita Nyong'o doesn't count as mexican beacuse REASONS!
IrishNinja
Member
cheers
Speaking from a American viewpoint, yeah it's complex. I'm another light skinned Mexican male living in America which seems to bring many of us to this topic. Being a less visible minority would bring it's advantages, but it's difficult to know what's going on in a case by case basis. Maybe my whiteness helped me get the job, or maybe my last name prevented me from even being interviewed. Maybe that girl who put "No Mexicans" on her dating profile would find me attractive and charming instead of whatever stereotype she is operating on. But I'm not going throw away or hide that part of my identity just to get a date or get ahead.
I love my culture and America has been doing it's best to hate it . Getting angry when my native tongue is spoken, using taco trucks as a metric for societal failure, saying the people I love the most are rapists/criminals. A toxic environment like that just reinforces that you are the "other". My fair skin doesn't protect me from that realization. Even if I could fit in with White America, I'll never feel comfortable because it'll be like I'm turning my back on the people I care about.
I love my culture and America has been doing it's best to hate it . Getting angry when my native tongue is spoken, using taco trucks as a metric for societal failure, saying the people I love the most are rapists/criminals. A toxic environment like that just reinforces that you are the "other". My fair skin doesn't protect me from that realization. Even if I could fit in with White America, I'll never feel comfortable because it'll be like I'm turning my back on the people I care about.
dragonelite
Member
Ooh man those though are always in my head.
Looking at what is the real motivation behind some actions other people make, is it racism positive or negative or is it something else.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
I guess my question is more about societal recognition than a biological endeavor. So my question is more about the struggle of self identification with social recognition. I totally recognize my blackness and I am proud of it, but it's necessarly conflicting with the fact that for the vast majority of people in my country I am white.
So yes, as you said, race is a social relation, but when you're relationship with yourself conflict with the relationship of the general society, it's hard to know what to make out of it.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
I feel the same in many ways, also questionning constantly the part (or not) of race in my social relationship with others.
Creepy
Member
My gf is Persian, she has "white" skin.
I asked her about this.
She says she doesn't know what she considers herself, that she wasn't obviously foreign enough to hang out with the other foreign kids, but was considered different anyway by the "white kids".
I've noticed she does get the occasional "where are you from?" when we're out together.
I asked her about this.
She says she doesn't know what she considers herself, that she wasn't obviously foreign enough to hang out with the other foreign kids, but was considered different anyway by the "white kids".
I've noticed she does get the occasional "where are you from?" when we're out together.
lightskintwin
Banned
Mind posting a picture of yourself so we get a better idea.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
lightskintwin
Banned
I won't sorry
No problem, just wanted to get a better idea. Honestly, you'd probably get embraced in the Black community in America if you lived here.
openrob
Member
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