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Sir_Crocodile
Member
(05-28-2015, 01:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by DeFiBkIlLeR

Which they believe the best way of achieving is by leaving the UK, so what are they waiting for?

They lost and are trying to make the best of it, there won't be another referendum for a long, long time - unless the UK votes to leave the EU. Obviously anything david cameron presented short of independance would have been attacked.

Cameron is only morally obilgated to give them whatever the smith comission suggested. If the Scotland bill meets that, he should ignore them. if it does not, the SNP have every right to complain. I've not read the scotland bill and compared it to the smith commision report so I can't comment on that score.
Nicktendo86
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(05-28-2015, 01:31 PM)
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I dunno, I don't believe the SNP for one second when they say they don't want a second referendum anytime soon. As soon as they feel they might win one I am sure they will press for another one.
Crab
Banned
(05-28-2015, 01:35 PM)

Originally Posted by Nicktendo86

I dunno, I don't believe the SNP for one second when they say they don't want a second referendum anytime soon. As soon as they feel they might win one I am sure they will press for another one.

I think the first opportunity they'll seriously push for one is after the 2016 Holyrood elections, if they (or separatist parties in general) win a majority. If they do win that majority, they'll be fully entitled to do so; it will have been a part of their manifesto.
MrChom
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(05-28-2015, 01:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by DeFiBkIlLeR

Which they believe the best way of achieving is by leaving the UK, so what are they waiting for?

Because they know that at the moment there is not the appetite, or the money for another referendum (not just directly, but indirectly in the form of lost trade). If they can't have independence then Devo Max is an acceptable midway point....after all the more devolution they can get the more it puts them in a better position for the next referendum (10-20 years, I reckon).

Politics is not just about charging headlong at an ideology full tilt all the time.

Politics is the art of the possible.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
(05-28-2015, 01:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sir_Crocodile

They lost and are trying to make the best of it, there won't be another referendum for a long, long time - unless the UK votes to leave the EU.

Non issue, unless their private opinion polls showed a large majority for independence because of the UK voting to leave, they still wouldn't call one over the issue of EU membership.

They won't risk losing a second referendum over Europe.

..besides, the chances of us voting to leave the EU is pretty small.

Sturgeon's real intention is hold another referendum sometime in 2020-2025 after including a referendum commitment in their 2020 Scottish election manifesto.
FlammableD
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(05-28-2015, 01:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by DeFiBkIlLeR

Sturgeon's real intention is hold another referendum sometime in 2020-2025 after including a referendum commitment in their 2020 Scottish election manifesto.

Yeah, that's pretty much the aim I'm assuming. Which is the right way to go about it.
FliXFantatier
Member
(05-28-2015, 01:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sir_Crocodile

Posting this thread in off topic rather then community seems to have lowered the general tone. :/

It will be moved to Community in no time...
Dan27
Member
(05-28-2015, 02:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by FliXFantatier

It will be moved to Community in no time...

Yeah sorry guys my mistake there - I posted in OT as the Election thread was there. I'll ask a mod to move it to Community.
War Peaceman
Member
(05-28-2015, 02:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dan27

Yeah sorry guys my mistake there - I posted in OT as the Election thread was there. I'll ask a mod to move it to Community.

Don't!

Staying in Off Topic might draw in a few more new members than languishing in the community doldrums
Sir_Crocodile
Member
(05-28-2015, 02:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by vcassano1

Don't!

Staying in Off Topic might draw in a few more new members than languishing in the community doldrums

I hear Derek Hatton is looking to join things again
FliXFantatier
Member
(05-28-2015, 02:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dan27

Yeah sorry guys my mistake there - I posted in OT as the Election thread was there. I'll ask a mod to move it to Community.

Yea, DON'T.

Threads get moved to community automatically after a couple of weeks. Till then we collect new subscribers in OT.
Dan27
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(05-28-2015, 02:35 PM)
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Okie dokey :)
Spaghetti
Member
(05-28-2015, 03:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by DeFiBkIlLeR

These days you will find just as many 'privileged' MP's on the Labour benches as you will on the Conservatives.

well it's certainly a good thing that labour isn't the be all and end all of 'the left'

especially since their new platform is looking to be more tory than the tories
QuicheFontaine
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(05-28-2015, 03:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Crab

I think people are allowed to want more than one thing. The SNP probably most want to leave Scotland, but, if that can't be acheived because there isn't sufficient support for it, they'd then still prefer a highly autonomous Scotland to a less autonomous Scotland. This was one of the things which they were (overwhelmingly) elected on the basis of and thus have a great deal of support for, so calling them out on this just makes you look a little silly.

Bloody hell! If even the SNP don't want to live in Scotland...
Mr Git
Member
(05-28-2015, 04:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by QuicheFontaine

Bloody hell! If even the SNP don't want to live in Scotland...

Ha! Was just about to quote that. :D

Great thread, I actually noticed it 'cause it's in Off Topic. I'll frequent.
Crab
Banned
(05-28-2015, 05:15 PM)

Originally Posted by QuicheFontaine

Bloody hell! If even the SNP don't want to live in Scotland...

I mean, who would when they could live in Wales instead?
QuicheFontaine
Member
(05-29-2015, 10:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Crab

I mean, who would when they could live in Wales instead?

I lived in Cardiff for three years after uni, and now that I think about it I don't think I ever met a single Scot there! So I don't think there is a great amount of Scotland -> Wales migration.

No idea why though. Wales is great. And you can buy a house for literally next to nothing.
Kuros
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(05-29-2015, 10:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by QuicheFontaine

I lived in Cardiff for three years after uni, and now that I think about it I don't think I ever met a single Scot there! So I don't think there is a great amount of Scotland -> Wales migration.

No idea why though. Wales is great. And you can buy a house for literally next to nothing.

I'm half scottish and live just outside of Cardiff. Hah.

*I came via Surrey then Bristol though.
QuicheFontaine
Member
(05-29-2015, 11:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kuros

I'm half scottish and live just outside of Cardiff. Hah.

*I came via Surrey then Bristol though.

You're the exception that proves the rule tho
Lirlond
Member
(05-29-2015, 04:46 PM)
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Really considering running for the Green party city councillor position. They're asking for candidates and I'm thinking to myself what is there to lose.

Anyone have any experience with local government?
Walshicus
(06-02-2015, 06:44 AM)
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Surprising news about Charles Kennedy!
Sir_Crocodile
Member
(06-02-2015, 06:45 AM)
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Charles Kennedy died last night. :(

I'll really miss him, he seemed like a great guy.
FliXFantatier
Member
(06-02-2015, 06:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Lirlond

Really considering running for the Green party city councillor position. They're asking for candidates and I'm thinking to myself what is there to lose.

Anyone have any experience with local government?

Yes, loads all be it in Germany.
I've held various positions at the local green party.

Do it!
Last edited by FliXFantatier; 06-02-2015 at 08:11 AM.
Dan27
Member
(06-02-2015, 07:16 AM)
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Very sad news about Charles Kennedy :(
Napoleonthechimp
Member
(06-02-2015, 07:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dan27

Very sad news about Charles Kennedy :(

At only 55 I've got to wonder if the previously rumoured alcohol problems did a number on his body. But I suppose we'll find out in time.
N7Commander95
Member
(06-02-2015, 07:23 AM)
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God, this is horrendous news :(
War Peaceman
Member
(06-02-2015, 07:39 AM)
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Damn. Rest in peace. I always respected him over Iraq.
Juicy Bob
Member
(06-02-2015, 07:55 AM)
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Man, that's sad news. He always seemed like a decent, well-meaning guy.
Nicktendo86
Member
(06-02-2015, 08:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Napoleonthechimp

At only 55 I've got to wonder if the previously rumoured alcohol problems did a number on his body. But I suppose we'll find out in time.

He was on question time once during the election campaign and sounded very sozzled. Terrible news.
War Peaceman
Member
(06-02-2015, 08:06 AM)
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His problems with alcoholism weren't rumours, he admitted it was a disease he suffered from :(
Crab
Banned
(06-02-2015, 10:13 AM)

Originally Posted by Nicktendo86

He was on question time once during the election campaign and sounded very sozzled. Terrible news.

That was because his father had been hospitalized right before the show.

Genuinely sad, he was one of my favourite MPs and a good man.
Xun
Member
(06-02-2015, 12:13 PM)
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RIP Charles. :(
UtterlyPerplexed
Member
(06-02-2015, 12:48 PM)
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Absolutely gutted that drink probably got to him in the end. For all of the anger directed at the Liberal Democrats last month for everything they have done in coalition, Charles Kennedy was outside of all that and did not deserve to lose his seat over it. That could not have helped him one bit.

Sad news. :(
Uzzy
(06-02-2015, 12:49 PM)
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Desperately sad news. He really was one of the nicest MPs around.
operon
Member
(06-02-2015, 01:40 PM)
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Really sad news, awful that he couldn't get away from the drink, one of the few politicians I had respect for, may he rest in peace
Mr. Sam
Member
(06-02-2015, 03:51 PM)
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It sounds a bit silly but Charles Kennedy was genuinely the man who got me interested in politics. If there was one Liberal Democrat who didn't deserve to lose his seat, it was him. There wasn't one time I listened to him that I didn't think he was wonderful. The news of his death this morning made me a little bit teary-eyed.
Par Score
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(06-02-2015, 05:18 PM)
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Good news everyone: MPs are getting a 10% payrise!

I'm sure you'll all agree that it's well deserved, and that even in these times of austerity it's important that these valued public servants are well rewarded for their hard work.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
(06-02-2015, 09:51 PM)
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He must have went on an epic bender after he lost his seat.
Exterminieren
on the brink of disasrer
(06-02-2015, 10:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Par Score

Good news everyone: MPs are getting a 10% payrise!

I'm sure you'll all agree that it's well deserved, and that even in these times of austerity it's important that these valued public servants are well rewarded for their hard work.

I think that MPs should be paid more than they are, personally.

As you can probably tell, I'm not much of a supporter of austerity.
Mr. Sam
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(06-02-2015, 11:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by fizzelopeguss

He must have went on an epic bender after he lost his seat.

Alright, well, that's a bit out of order.
Par Score
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(06-02-2015, 11:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Exterminieren

I think that MPs should be paid more than they are, personally.

As you can probably tell, I'm not much of a supporter of austerity.

Oh, I'm not necessarily against MPs being paid more.

Ideally I'd link their salary to some multiple of what you'd earn if you were in full-time employment on the minimum wage. Handily, their current salary is about 5 times the minimum wage equivalent, so that would be an easy starting point, or we could be generous and go a little higher at 6 times which would bring them above what their new salary will be.

This would give them a direct incentive to make sure work pays all the way down to the bottom, although it still frees them up to smack around those on benefits, so it's hardly perfect.
Volotaire
Member
(06-03-2015, 07:01 PM)
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Great OP! A bit disappointed with some of the posts on the last thread, I'll try and write something more detailed later.
Nicktendo86
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(06-04-2015, 08:01 AM)
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Fascinating insight into the labour campaign, vote labour and win a microwave has to go on 2020 posters!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-lost-election

Miliband was so distraught that he shut himself in his hotel room, where a series of people, including his wife Justine, joined him and tried to offer some reassurance – pointing out that the omission had not featured prominently in the BBC political editor Nick Robinson’s report on the Six O’Clock News.

But Miliband knew the story of his “forgetting the deficit” would prove devastating. “He was really upset,” the speech writer recalled. “He pushes himself very hard – he was very, very angry with himself even before he knew it was going to be the main story out of the speech. We tried to cheer him up, but even then he was too upset. He did not come to the celebratory party, he just did not want to come out of his room.”

On 15 May, a week before the vote, Miliband met with David Axelrod – Barack Obama’s chief campaign adviser, who had signed on as a consultant to the Labour campaign for an astronomical fee – at Corrigan’s, an upscale Mayfair restaurant. During the meal, Beales was fielding calls from Miliband, who was still asking him to think of a slogan for the remaining week of the European election campaign; Axelrod was appalled by the low quality of the ideas being discussed, which he derisively characterised as “Vote Labour and win a microwave”.

At 9.55pm on election night, in Labour party headquarters at Brewers Green in Westminster, the party felt that it had charted a clear, if perilous, path to power. The battle that night would be whether the Liberal Democrats would choose to partner with Labour or the Conservatives.

Then 10 o’clock struck. “There were two TV screens – one on Sky, one on the BBC,” a senior campaign aide said. The first words came in, announcing that the exit poll had found the Tories would be the largest party. “Yep, I was expecting that. Anything else would be a surprise,” the aide recalled thinking at the time. “Then the seats came up. Total silence. The shock was just awful. That exit poll will be seared in my brain for ever.” Bell and Livermore stared at each other in disbelief, as the whole room put their hands to their mouths in shock.

Harriet Harman was waiting outside Millbank TV studios to give her initial reaction. None of the scripts she had been given anticipated this disaster. Miliband’s senior advisers huddled for the next hour, trying to decipher the stated results.

“For the exit poll seat projections to be right, Labour had to be wiped out in Scotland, the Liberal Democrats would have to be wiped out in their Tory marginals and we would have to done really badly in the English marginals,” the campaign aide recalled. “We thought we might hold seven to 10 seats in Scotland, we had no intelligence on the Tory-Lib Dem marginals and throughout the day we had good reports in the English marginals. We thought that surely one of these three must be wrong. It was a form of collective denial.”

Last edited by Nicktendo86; 06-04-2015 at 08:06 AM.
kharma45
Member
(06-04-2015, 03:09 PM)
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Royal Mail stake to be sold off, George Osborne announces

The government's remaining 30% stake in the Royal Mail is to be sold off to help pay down the deficit, George Osborne has said.

The chancellor said the shares - currently valued at £1.5bn - would be sold when ministers could be sure they would get value for money.

He also announced £3bn in efficiency savings in the current financial year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33004664
pulsemyne
Member
(06-04-2015, 03:37 PM)

Originally Posted by kharma45

Royal Mail stake to be sold off, George Osborne announces



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33004664

Well I for one am shocked that this government would sell off the remaining part of the Royal mail. I mean why would they sell off a company that makes hundreds of millions of profit and will do for a long time. Oh yeah that's right it's because they are tories and have a laughable short term mentality when it comes to economics. Also their friends will get nice and rich.
operon
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(06-04-2015, 04:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Exterminieren

I think that MPs should be paid more than they are, personally.

As you can probably tell, I'm not much of a supporter of austerity.

I don't mind them being paid more, there are premiership footballers on more in a week and all they do is kick a ball
operon
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(06-04-2015, 05:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nicktendo86

Fascinating insight into the labour campaign, vote labour and win a microwave has to go on 2020 posters!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-lost-election

They really weren't prepared for that result at all
Jackpot
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(06-04-2015, 05:28 PM)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiH3L3XpJHY

German Daily Show view on UK's attitude to Europe.
Volotaire
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(06-04-2015, 05:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nicktendo86

Fascinating insight into the labour campaign, vote labour and win a microwave has to go on 2020 posters!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-lost-election

Thanks for the article. A great insight not just into the last weeks of the election, but also to the last couple of years until the end. Having been part of a number of society committees this year, I now fully understand how political divisions (although on much smaller scale and magnitude!) can form so easily.
Nicktendo86
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(06-04-2015, 05:54 PM)
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The Queen's speech has passed with a majority of 47.

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