Electric Eye
Banned
McCain using the procedures excuse is really just him being polite to his long time friend Graham. He knows it's a shit bill.
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John McCain Official Statement: "I Will Vote No on Graham Cassidy Health Care Bill"
- Thread starter BoogieWoogie
- Start date
SirClinksAlot
Member
Also an Arizona resident and I did the same. Totally with you on Flake but you forgot to add a Fuck Doug Ducey in there. Scumbag coming out for this to try and get McCain to vote yes.
RPGCrazied
Member
I think he just doesn't like Trump very well. How could he after being humiliated saying he didn't like him because he got captured?
And he hasn't apologized for that either.
Randolph Freelander
Member
I will believe him when (a) the vote is cast or (b) the bill is pulled.
demosthenes
Member
Not doubting but your source for the bill stuff?
Yes the CBO does an independent assessment. I'm not arguing with that. The text of the bill is available - https://www.cassidy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Section by Section Final.pdf, which outlines things like per capita caps and other restrictions.
Read the third paragraph of his statement again.
McCain ain't shit
Sure he's voting no, but it's not because the bill is horrible: he agrees with the bill.
Maybe you should be the one to read it again. He said he would CONSIDER SUPPORTING, not that he'd support it. He is saying that he's not even considering supporting it at this point due to the lack of debate.
CrocMother
Banned
I don't think the vote will be cast if they don't have a guaranteed win. So if it goes to the floor, start panicking.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Given that they just revive it every fucking time, will it ever really be time to celebrate?
RPGCrazied
Member
McCain would not dare to write out this letter, then go back on his word and vote yes.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Reconciliation ends on 9/30. Republicans would either have to wait until next year or change the Senate rules to eliminate the filibuster.
So at the very least, it's a respite.
StopMakingSense
Member
And they aren't touching this with an 800ft pole in 2018.
Empyrean Heaven
Member
Paul is only a no since he wants a complete repeal with no replacement, the douchebag.
Walter White Walker
Member
Looking good.
You wanted him to say "oh and this bill will ruin people's lives so that's another reason" that paragraph is saying that diplomatically about a bill that his friend wrote as "oh, it might ruin lives we don't really know till the CBO tells us."
CrocMother
Banned
When exactly do they have to wait until to pass it under reconciliation again?
You don't issue a statement like this and then just turn around and vote yes. If McCain was still considering voting for it he would have just kept complaining about "process" without giving a firm answer either way. The only reason to put out such a statement is if he really is against it, in my mind.
Randolph Freelander
Member
He's still a Republican.
WhateverItTakes
Banned
Good. That bill is horrendous.
How nice of him to consider protocol and his personal feelings about Graham and Cassidy as individuals instead of the consequences of the bill itself.
Oh, and perpetuating the myth that Obamacare was rammed through.
One thing I'm curious on, could they not just change the reconciliation rules to extend the deadline, or is that enshrined in a place that isn't as easily changed?
Randolph Freelander
Member
Next year. There are doubts they would touch this in an election year (see a post above), but I have my doubts about that. Republican voters are still far more in favor of a repeal than against, and these clowns have to survive primaries.
mugurumakensei
Member
It's the final day where they can pass under reconciliation. Otherwise, they need a 60-vote majority which means convincing democrat senators.
RPGCrazied
Member
Yes, then they will need 60 votes. And they will never get a single Democrat on repealing the ACA.
That is something that is up to the Parliamentarian and she gave a hard deadline for the end of the fiscal year.
Last day to do it with 50 votes + Pence until next year. Otherwise they have to deal with the filibuster and a higher vote threshold.
You're not wrong, I was just responding to that specific part quoted in that post.
This post combines a few things:
1). calls some amorphous collection of GAFfers "dumb fucks"
2). implies that whatever consensus another amorphous collection of GAFfers came up with "last time" is definite, unmalleable, and not up for debate
3). creates a blatant caricature by saying McCain "literally wants poor people dead" - I mean, that's pretty specific, isn't it? He wakes up in the morning, and wonders how he can kill more poor people?
I don't know that McCain is a hero (I'd say almost certainly not, but honestly, what even is a hero anymore?), but in truth, there are few heroes in Congress right now. Heroism implies something rare there: autonomous decision-making based on principles applied in a universal, as opposed to conditional, way. A huge amount of what we see in Congress is structural, which is why it tends to be so predictable. Donors, parties, media, tribalism and partisanship, etc., etc.; these are organizing forces that at some point transcended being organizing forces to become straight up black holes.
McCain is one of the 1% of Republicans who has shown a willingness or capacity to rise above those forces, and in doing so, has put a stop to some serious bullshit from happening. That doesn't make him immune to them, though. He's still trapped and informed by the dynamics at play, he's still a Republican, he's still a ridiculously flawed protagonist at best even in his most heightened moments. But in the aggregate, his votes killing these Republican health care bills have been hugely important, as has been his rhetoric about going back to regular order. All the stuff in his statement about Obamacare being bad, Graham-Cassidy having potential, etc. does nothing to change the calculation; those are already totally baked into the narrative gripping most every Republican in Washington.
It's just nice that someone in that broken party, in that broken place, can still reach out and grasp a large enough shard of sanity to say "no" to broken legislation. You don't need to have faith in John McCain; I certainly don't. However, I'm down to celebrate whatever it is he has within him that the other 99% of Republicans are missing.
Futurevoid
Member
The bill can outline what it likes. The entire point of CBO analysis is to give the Congress an idea of what the overall effects of a bill are including (in this case) projected cost savings or expenditure, coverage losses in the short and long term and a current look at the market as it stands.
Bills say and outline a lot of things. It doesn't mean a damned thing until its scored. Especially when trying to pass something under reconciliation rules. Despite recent efforts by Trump and the GOP to discredit the CBO, its analysis is still important and remains the best non-partisan source for bill scoring and decision making when Congress looks to cast a vote.
I mean, I get it. McCain has hardly flexed those supposed maverick muscles in recent years and has supported plenty of terrible things. Right now though he's in legacy mode and if it isn't apparent - he wants a return to regular order in the Senate and I think that's commendable.
Fair enough. It's still McCain though so I won't hold my breath on that being his intent.
Gotcha.
They can only do one reconciliation bill in a given fiscal year. September 31th is the last day of this fiscal year. Their plan was to write another reconciliation bill for taxes for FY 2018.
Yeah that line pisses me off. They only "rammed it through" after like, over a year of debates and normal order. The only reason they HAD to "ram it through" is because Republicans were being partisan shitbags.
I suppose it's an unpopular opinion to express that I don't really have a problem with McCain? His neoconservative foreign policy and that period from 2007-2010 when he tacked hard right are and were awful to be sure, but beyond that he's occasionally done some good things such as McCain-Feingold, supporting cap-and-trade, and pushing for immigration reform.
Now in his dying days he has been key to the failure of these terrible Republican replacements for Obamacare. He's still a Republican, meaning I disagree with nearly all of his policy stances, but I always thought he was a mix of good and bad and doesn't warrant much hate compared to the truly awful people in that party such as McConnell and Ryan.
Now in his dying days he has been key to the failure of these terrible Republican replacements for Obamacare. He's still a Republican, meaning I disagree with nearly all of his policy stances, but I always thought he was a mix of good and bad and doesn't warrant much hate compared to the truly awful people in that party such as McConnell and Ryan.
Futurevoid
Member
They could pass a revised budget resolution in the same fiscal year under Congressional Budget Act if they wanted to try and do both Tax Reform and Healthcare in FY2018. They are not locked into that "once per year" rule. It just requires passing another resolution.
I do not believe they will go down that route with the mid-terms right around the corner, though.
super-heated plasma
Member
Rick Santorum saying they are still planning to go ahead with a vote.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
Go ahead and fail again for everyone to see.
Oh they could certainly try to put both of them in one bill. But that would greatly increases the chances of total failure.
TheOctodad
Member
I don't know why y'all are so confident. Easily could still pass with someone else flipping.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Let's just hope he's true to his word and none of the others can be successfully bribed.
Regardless, still weary.
Regardless, still weary.
BlackDoomShadow
Member
Collins, Murkowski, and Paul are not certain votes.
eBay Huckster
Member
they aren't flipping Collins, and Murkowski has zero reason to even humor them considering the circumstances of her last election
LudicrousSpeed
Member
Theoretically, they could write health care reconciliation instructions into the next budget and just keep this going.
The problem is that you get 1 reconciliation bill per fiscal year. The plan was to do health care with the FY2017 bill and tax cuts with FY2018's bill. If they don't get this done by 9/30, then they have to choose: tax cuts or health care reform.
Or they could try to put both in, but it has to go in 1 bill, which means you've increased the number of reasons why someone might vote against your bill.
Graham is a very close friend of his...there is a certain amount of "reading between the lines" that is happening in his statement. Still, I'll take it..A win is a win...let's hope the others keep their spines.
plagiarize
Banned
Given his justification for shooting it down last time, I'm not really sure how he could have supported it this time, given that they're still just trying to ram it through without following normal process.
I don't know that I buy that as the real reason John was against this, but it all lines up.
8 more days until we don't have to stress about healthcare quite so badly for at least a while. Fingers tightly crossed we can make it through the end of the month.
I don't know that I buy that as the real reason John was against this, but it all lines up.
8 more days until we don't have to stress about healthcare quite so badly for at least a while. Fingers tightly crossed we can make it through the end of the month.