Green Yoshi
Member
But old people didn't vote for the FPÖ:
http://derstandard.at/2000065824253/Wen-Menschen-wie-Sie-gewaehlt-haben
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Austrian Elections 2017 |OT| Voting right wing parties into parliament since 1949
- Thread starter Westbahnhof
- Start date
But old people didn't vote for the FPÖ:
http://derstandard.at/2000065824253/Wen-Menschen-wie-Sie-gewaehlt-haben
The conservatives are still , as far as their actual programme is concerned, "the same shit" but with a different, turquoise face. His whole claim of "renewal" is a farce, seeing as it comes from a party that has been in government for over 30 years.
Guess what? They scored a significant victory, proving that Austria does just look for a new, pretty face.
What you bolded isn't an opinion, it's a documented fact.
Also, just bypassing that whole Nazi past thing, huh?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
you're both right and wrong. You're right that refugees not having permits for work is an issue out of their hand they are blamed with but refugees are not the whole of immigrants most of which only get to come here (from outside the EU) if they either can provide for themselves or can proof they have someone that can provide for them.
There is a lot of misinformation around for what refugees get, if you add everything up they might get more but they also have to build a life from scratch. I have empathy with people with bad pensions but the solutions isn't to take from people that are also unfortunate but to reduce the gap in wealth that has grown in Austria just the same.
Hint: No comment mostly indicates that someone finds the opinion simply wrong or untasteful (which as you stated, i didn't even comment). No comment wasn't in that case necessary, but talk your way out.
We have no indication that a change would happen if everything would stay the same after this election. I looked enough through everything to not be surprised, but try again.
Thanks for changing the topic from immigrants to migrants. We both know, that you know enough, that these are two completely different topics, as migrants are integrated in the system. They have the right to earn money, so also can pay into the system. There's no way someone should be angry at them. And also not on immigrants actually, but some are, because politics did lead that whole process in a manner where they can't contribute. So, as you see, not a topic where you need to try to educate me, I'm in there.
That's why people want a change i guess. But try to exploit my comments here, i know you find a way to make it look too rightish or something like that.
I know that migrants contribute greatly and i see migrants as austrians. I know it's surely hard to read that of someone where you made your opinion up already, right? That's the problem you face as a centric. I always get pushed to the right or to the left side too heavy, because obvisiously, as a centric who is understanding for a party that someone dislikes, always leads to trying to exploit the person because, obviously, you surely support this parties then and every gruel thing they stand for and people call it out for. Same actually for righties, where they tell me about bad lefties and not-wanting-to-work-people, all-life-long students, just smoking weed,.. could go on, wow.
But that's the whole point. So you don't care if the promises are achievable or not, you just pick the nicest sounding promises even if you kind of know that's not how the reality will look. Well, I guess we will all find out how the reality will look in the next years.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
stolen from reddit
Red Arremer
Member
Immigrant and migrant are synonyms.
The difference you're talking about is between (im)migrants and refugees.
That's the whole problem with this entire discussion and the whole "immigration is evil, foreigners are coming to steal your money" rhetoric. It makes no differentiation between refugees and immigrants, but throws them into the same evil-foreigner-pot, and this whole attempt to get the poorer parts of the population (even if one of these parts is only temporary and without a lot of rights) fight among themselves and divide the population is going to do more harm than good.
Alas, it's political reality at this point that Austrians fear the evil foreigner coming to "steal their money" more than big businesses and superrich people actually stealing their money.
The difference you're talking about is between (im)migrants and refugees.
That's the whole problem with this entire discussion and the whole "immigration is evil, foreigners are coming to steal your money" rhetoric. It makes no differentiation between refugees and immigrants, but throws them into the same evil-foreigner-pot, and this whole attempt to get the poorer parts of the population (even if one of these parts is only temporary and without a lot of rights) fight among themselves and divide the population is going to do more harm than good.
Alas, it's political reality at this point that Austrians fear the evil foreigner coming to "steal their money" more than big businesses and superrich people actually stealing their money.
Westbahnhof
Banned
I just want to point out that I totally saw this coming:
"Changing the topic from immigrants to migrants"...ugh.
Hisoka, this is an honest question, not meant to be provocative:
Did you mix up the terms, or did you completely not realize they were used for differently from the way you used them?
There is a article from the Spiegel, where it doesn't look like, that even if those parties are in power and failing, that this changes anything (just look at the US and the republican party). As long as the right wing parties can dictate the topics, are the loudest, have a scapegoat and constantly make the citizen angry, they can just simple drown out all their critics. The truth isn't worth anything, if nobody can hear it.
The question becomes, how to deal with this tactic, especially since the Internet makes it easy to quickly change the topic.
snail_maze
Member
Haha, damn.
Let's see what happens with them until thursday. 3,9% would be such a kick in the teeth.
snail_maze
Member
not really all too true since the relevant branch of the AG lost a lot at that time
Edit: if that was what you meant, I could have missed something, if so then I apologize
Westbahnhof
Banned
Just checked my current residence district, Mariahilf.
Green party lost 19,15%, down to 9,93% from the previously massive 29,08%.
Pilz got a like 10% only, but a massive plus for the SPÖ.
Guess green voters really really supported the SPÖ huh?
Green party lost 19,15%, down to 9,93% from the previously massive 29,08%.
Pilz got a like 10% only, but a massive plus for the SPÖ.
Guess green voters really really supported the SPÖ huh?
snail_maze
Member
Yeah, it also explains the result in Graz where Green lost way more than Pilz gained and the SPÖ had large gains.
I know green voters who either moved to SPÖ aor Pilz. The more "left" greens moved to Pilz, the more "least evil" greens moved to SPÖ it seems.
edit: Is it too early to fear the Öxit?
Britain has done an excellent job in showing why you shouldn't ever leave the EU. And if such a huge economy is struggling with it, it would completely devastate Austria.
Also, Kurz is not a complete idiot, the ÖVP would never accept it, and I think even the FPÖ understands that there is no real political will in Austria in leaving.
It was a nice idea, before somebody actually jumped over the cliff, and proved that, yep, there is nothing but a long way down.
My guess is that this is happening because the green party (or Pilz for that matter) are no longer an useful vote. It will be very difficult to come back to the levels before for either green wings.
I don't see why ÖVP would want that, it would be disastrous for business.
You are right. It was a nice election point for Hofer I guess but even then FPÖ supporters did not like that idea. At least most of them.
snail_maze
Member
There is simply no appetite for leaving the EU in Austria. I actually read up about the FPÖ stance regarding the EU and even they are callig more for reform than an exit (unlike populists in France, Italy etc)
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Man, what the fuck happened to the Greens.
I mean the results pretty much mirror my own opinion of them (and I used to vote Green). They just fucked up everything while drifting further and further into a fantasy land.
Also, they had by far the worst and stupidest slogan left of the FPÖ.
I hope whoever came up with "Be a man, vote for a woman" is proud of him/herself.
Nah.
After Brexit happened even the FPÖ got pretty silent about "Öxit"
I mean the results pretty much mirror my own opinion of them (and I used to vote Green). They just fucked up everything while drifting further and further into a fantasy land.
Also, they had by far the worst and stupidest slogan left of the FPÖ.
I hope whoever came up with "Be a man, vote for a woman" is proud of him/herself.
Nah.
After Brexit happened even the FPÖ got pretty silent about "Öxit"
Westbahnhof
Banned
So, I just looked at someone polling about motivations and such.
Yes, the numbers aren't that accurate, but they paint a clear picture:
FPÖ voters are unhappy. "Mit der Gesamtsituation unzufrieden", as the phrase goes.
Now, I'm wondering.
Say we get Schwarz-Blau.
I'm anticipating that these people still won't be happy, five years from now. The things that they they have problems with are not easily solved, especially by a party of incompetent contrarians who's main advantage in the past years was being able to be the opposition, not responsible for said Gesamtsituation.
So.. What will happen?
Will the FPÖ lose massively again, if they perform the way they performed before?
Edit: Fudge, uploaded the wrong, uncropped pictures
Edit2: Fixed
Yes, the numbers aren't that accurate, but they paint a clear picture:
FPÖ voters are unhappy. "Mit der Gesamtsituation unzufrieden", as the phrase goes.
Now, I'm wondering.
Say we get Schwarz-Blau.
I'm anticipating that these people still won't be happy, five years from now. The things that they they have problems with are not easily solved, especially by a party of incompetent contrarians who's main advantage in the past years was being able to be the opposition, not responsible for said Gesamtsituation.
So.. What will happen?
Will the FPÖ lose massively again, if they perform the way they performed before?
Edit: Fudge, uploaded the wrong, uncropped pictures
Edit2: Fixed
There's exactly one party which openly argued in favour of an Öxit, and they got 0.18% of the votes. They're also a right-wing split-off of the FPÖ, so make of that what you will.
Well.. You see the results yesterday? I think you all are right but never underestimate the hate on foreigners and blindly ignoring everything else. Also all the old farts wanting their "time back".
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Not that this should be a surprise for anybody but
The FPÖ will blame an uncooperative ÖVP for everything but they would probably loose votes
The strength of the FPÖ was always to blame everybody for everything, to come up with solutions that sound good but won't get implemented cause they actually don't work or are against the law and sit back and watch the ÖVP and SPÖ tear into each other.
The FPÖ will blame an uncooperative ÖVP for everything but they would probably loose votes
The strength of the FPÖ was always to blame everybody for everything, to come up with solutions that sound good but won't get implemented cause they actually don't work or are against the law and sit back and watch the ÖVP and SPÖ tear into each other.
snail_maze
Member
I remember laughing after a commentator asked what would happen if the FPÖ had a poster with "Be a woman, vote for a man"
Westbahnhof
Banned
True. It's always the other parties, the other countries, the EU, the nefarious Wahlbetrug-masterminds...
And the voters are eating it up.
Completely awful, I have no idea who they wanted to appeal to. At least who out of the people that would vote for their party.
Nice of you to place that L there because I assume FPÖ will be needing it after this term.
They'll project the blame on the ÖVP but they will still lose a lot of votes afterwards. FPÖ is good at being in opposition and terrible with actually running the country. Regardless for how long the coalition lasts, I assume they won't be back after this for a while when their voters realize jack shit has changed.
Westbahnhof
Banned
I had hoped I could just remove that typo.. But now it's one. The FPÖ will take their L anyway, fear not.
Thinking the voters won't buy what is sure to be a deflection of responsibility onto their coalition partner, hm? Not sure if I'm that optimistic, but I'll try to be.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Whatever happens we can only hope that we get another rap out of Strache, next time possibly saying how great everything is now.
It's the only thing good about him
And by good I mean "my ears are bleeding, stop, please for the love of god stop, my brain aaaaaaaaaaah"
Only the best and the brightest.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm already crying at the thought of Vice Chancellor Strache.
That's the world we live in now.
That's the world we live in now.
Eh, I try to be. I think there's definitely going to be a notable part of their voters who will believe their inevitable deflection, but I also think quite a part of the people that voted for them this time around will be swayed by the statements of the other parties.
I believe SPÖ in opposition shouldn't be underestimated, criticizing is often times easier than actually doing better yourself, and it's not like a lot of people in politics here are above throwing any mud they can at the other party.
People will be unsatisfied and the opposition will do their best to capitalize on that.
I am curious too. Given that Strache wants to position himself as an approachable, youthful fellow to his voters depite being 48, how likely is he to become the vice next to a 31 year old man.
I know it's weird to assume he'd reject the position because he might look old next to Kurz, but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if Hofer might be the vice due to that.
I still hope this is all just a bad dream and I will wake up any second now.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Man, I forgot that 270.000 people voted for Frank Stronach last time.
I wish I could forget that again.
I wish I could forget that again.
Well, the only upside to these numbers seem to be that I may soon have a neighbouring country where a fungus themed party may start its glorious rise to power.
...Yeah, I know it's his name, let me be happy for a moment, please.
Oh well.
At least you guys probably managed to avoid giving the two major asshole parties an absolute majority. That's something.
...Yeah, I know it's his name, let me be happy for a moment, please.
Oh well.
At least you guys probably managed to avoid giving the two major asshole parties an absolute majority. That's something.
Spieler Eins
Member
Everyone in the free world getting fucked over sooner or later because apparently it's impossible to properly educate rural areas. Vienna voting was far from good, but at least managable.
Thing is, I don't think he actually wants to take such an important role because if they fuck up he's gone - and he des not want that.
If he doesn't, wouldn't that make him a coward?
Also, I hope Hofer is also in the government. These people need to show their full competence.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Strache wanted a notable title on his resume for the better part of a decade.
He challenged Häupl of all people.
You're right that the topic is (im)migrant -refugee. You're not right that migrant and immigrant are synonyms, as you can use them differently.
To the bold: said nobody, ever.
Throwing money = no
Give them to work asap = yes
No one is a thief there, it's just not uhm huh.. fair? In some cases the Mindestsicherung outpaces the money that some people even work for. Explain them why please.
To the rhetoric: i stated in one of my first comments in this thread that it's time for more wealthy people to get a cut, even if it would hit me a bit.
So rich people = getting a cut
Refugees = providing a better housing option because camps are terrible, then providing with work
Bad earning people = more money
And you all know that inflation is still a problem. The raise that most people get gets easily outpaced by it. A continuation of this would mean most people can't afford their living in some years.
Yes, the refugee part is missing. It should've been immigrants/migrants and refugees. Thought it was clear that i meant the problems that arose with the flood.
Red Arremer
Member
Minister of Interior and vice chancellor HC Strache.
Minister of Health Norbert Hofer
Foreign and integration minister ... Kickl?
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Just kill me
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
wat
Sarcasm.
Red Arremer
Member
He's the President of our Hearts. What more is needed?
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked