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Waypoint: Inside the Sexual Misconduct Allegations Rocking NeoGAF's Last 48 Hours

finowns

Member
I've been on vacation in Orlando, was super busy for several days. When I left NeoGAF, everything was fine, everything was good. Then I finally returned and the place was on fire.

Seriously, I felt like I was living that Community gif.

Why did you leave, it's your fault!
 

HarryKS

Member
Feel like with this kind of pressure coming in and his investment into this thing, dude might end up killing himself. Know it sounds heartless to say this, but I've rarely seen someone being piled on so hard.

This is his entire life, his reputation is in tatters, people are gonna blacklist him, those same people who pretend to care about stuff are bullying him and behind this false air of bravado, there's a guy really feeling the heat.

Tyler Malka, I don't really care about you my man, but there's a bunch of dark thoughts probably swimming in your head from seeing that thing you helped grow chewing your hand out, so I'll just say this without so much as a hint of irony but rather some sympathy: do not kill yourself, you don't want to become a martyr for a silly discussion board.
 

Future

Member
My post on the first page of this thread was deleted earlier, but seeing as no one else here is doing anything differently than I did, I may as well post again. Man the victim blaming here is just out of control. I hope you guys don't use this kind of language when speaking to your moms/sisters/daughters/sons/friends/etc.

In the event evilore is telling the truth, what should he be saying that won’t sound like victim blaming?
 
My post on the first page of this thread was deleted earlier, but seeing as no one else here is doing anything differently than I did, I may as well post again. Man the victim blaming here is just out of control. I hope you guys don't use this kind of language when speaking to your moms/sisters/daughters/sons/friends/etc.

I don't see a victim in.this scenario.

They're both victims of internet vitriol. That's about it.
 

Mikǝ

Neo Member
Feel like with this kind of pressure coming in and his investment into this thing, dude might end up killing himself. Know it sounds heartless to say this, but I've rarely seen someone being piled on so hard.

I thought you were talking about Harvey Weinstein for a second. I guess the difference there is Weinstein can probably still salvage some semblance of a career at some point.
 

starmud

Member
I trust Patrick’s reporting and however you may come off feeling about all of the reporting we do know... I find it hard to see how anyone can feel too strongly one way or another. It sounds convoluted and personal on both sides and neither sounds crystal clear in their standing.

Time always tells... and I’m glad someone in the game reporting space took time to try and sift through all the hyperbole and finger-pointing that crash landed the last two days.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
His statement would have been a bannable offense on old proper gaf.
Directly attacking the mental health of the accuser.

Evilore is a shithead and deserves no forgiving, it is the same with him lying and saying he didn't knew avout Amir0x.

Scum, come on m0dus, post is screenshotted, edit it to show how little both of you are.
 
In the event evilore is telling the truth, what should he be saying that won't sound like victim blaming?

He could start by not readily dismissing her view of the event as "delusional" and refusing to even admit he may have overstepped boundaries, at the absolute fucking minimum
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
I appreciate that there are some gray areas and that people can make mistakes, and that mistakes can be forgiven. I think it’s kind of a mistake though to publicly point out someone’s mental health issues. Generally you kind of have to admit you may have been in the wrong a bit as well though (if you actually did wrong someone from the ideals you hold yourself to or someone feels reasonably wronged from their perspective).
 

Dyle

Member
In the event evilore is telling the truth, what should he be saying that won’t sound like victim blaming?
Not calling her mentally ill would have been a good start.
According to Malka, he was upfront about a "mutual romantic interest" also coming on the trip, and it "might lead somewhere." He claims an early interaction between the other woman and Malka proved explosive, and resulting in Leupp becoming "increasingly hostile and bitter. He claims she had "two separate public mental breakdowns" before the trip was over. These breakdowns, insisted Malka, were related to a "history of serious mental illness."

Leupp called both of these insinuations "bullshit." Her confrontations with Malka over the weekend were, according to her, because Malka became aggressive towards her. Leupp was also increasingly uncomfortable over how he was pursuing this other girl, by "trying to get her drunk, being really hands-y, taking her away from the group a lot, and isolating her."
I don't see a victim in.this scenario.

They're both victims of internet vitriol. That's about it.
Do you really not understand that she was a victim years before this erupted over the weekend?
 

Gluka

Member
Not calling her mentally ill would have been a good start.


Do you really not understand that she was a victim years before this erupted over the weekend?

It's becoming increasingly clear that the people willing to stick around don't care at all.
 

Neoweee

Member
He could start by not readily dismissing her view of the event as "delusional" and refusing to even admit he may have overstepped boundaries, at the absolute minimum

Yeah, it was a shitty response. I don't think it is hard to understand why the mods revolted like they did; the response did not live up to the standards that he pretty strongly enforced.
 

Apocryphon

Member
The only description of the events we have is from her perspective, as "the other side" has declined to elaborate beyond calling the accuser malicious and mentally unstable. The post I replied to takes it as a fact that the bathroom door was left open, a fact only coming from her. I pointed out the rest of the context, which is pretty fucking relevant if you want to claim "she was asking for it".

Don't put words in my mouth. She could have had and expressed zero interest and he could still have taken an incorrect reading of the situation. I wasn't there, I don't know what transpired before the shower incident. Nobody else here knows either. We have a Facebook post to go off and that is all. She isn't refuting that at a later date they had a consensual physical relationship and it's fairly clear that they parted ways further down the line and didn't remain friends. We don't know why.

The bottom line is that you can't just accuse somebody of something like this, fail to provide any kind of evidence, and expect zero push back. He wasn't accused of sexual assault or rape as many here appear to believe, he wasn't even accused of sexual harassment. There has never been a formal accusation of anything whatsoever. It seems impossible at this point that either party can prove what really happened, but we do know that they remained on good terms immediately after the event and had a sexual relationship later on.

I haven't referenced anything Tyler has said and I'm not defending his response to the matter. What I am doing is taking the same position that the law takes. There is a presumption of innocence not a presumption of guilt and unless somebody can provide evidence to the contrary, I have no reason to believe that Tyler did anything other than misread a situation and drunkenly make a pass at a girl that he once knew. They were sharing a hotel room and they had been drinking heavily, to the point where one of them was throwing up. Even if I take Ima 100% at her word, I still can't get to a point where it's acceptable that people are calling for his job and telling him to kill himself.
 

meanspartan

Member
My post on the first page of this thread was deleted earlier, but seeing as no one else here is doing anything differently than I did, I may as well post again. Man the victim blaming here is just out of control. I hope you guys don't use this kind of language when speaking to your moms/sisters/daughters/sons/friends/etc.

As I posted earlier - lets say you are in Malka's shoes and ARE innocent (Maybe he isnt but for sake of argument).

What is the proper way to defend yourself as your reputation is destroyed? Any defense seems to be countered with "stop victim blaming!".

If I were him and know she is lying or conveniently leaving things out, Id sue her for defamation.
 

Neoweee

Member
The bottom line is that you can't just accuse somebody of something like this, fail to provide any kind of evidence, and expect zero push back. He wasn't accused of sexual assault or rape as many here appear to believe, he wasn't even accused of sexual harassment. There has never been a formal accusation of anything whatsoever. It seems impossible at this point that either party can prove what really happened, but we do know that they remained on good terms immediately after the event and had a sexual relationship later on.

Yeah, that's my stance on the stuff. I know it makes me look bad to come off as potentially siding with a guy that will possibly be facing further allegations, but the absolute worst-case scenario for this specific incident is... what? Indecent exposure to the woman he was sharing a hotel room with?

Like, he was in the wrong, period. She was drunk. But she wasn't as bothered by it back then as she appears to be bothered by it now, or she wouldn't have continued to be a travelling partner or FWB, or whatever you call their relationship.
 

Limit

Member
The worst part, from an explanation perspective, is a complete inability to own up to any actions. Calling the other person crazy isn't a good causal explanation for your own moral shortcomings.
 
Yeah, it was a shitty response. I don't think it is hard to understand why the mods revolted like they did; the response did not live up to the standards that he pretty strongly enforced.

The mods also got an entirely different, more batshit spiel from him that you're not seeing here.
 

Paracelsus

Member
Yeah, that's my stance on the stuff. I know it makes me look bad to come off as potentially siding with a guy that will possibly be facing further allegations, but the absolute worst-case scenario for this specific incident is... what? Indecent exposure to the woman he was sharing a hotel room with?

Like, he was in the wrong, period. She was drunk. But she wasn't as bothered by it back then as she appears to be bothered by it now, or she wouldn't have continued to be a travelling partner or FWB, or whatever you call their relationship.

You already have people in this very thread that kinda considered that behavior stockholm syndrome, as if she got flashed and the shock was so much she caved in (?).

If he thinks he has a leg to stand on, he should just sue whoever is in the way for slander, setting a precedent for good or bad.
 

Neoweee

Member
The mods also got an entirely different, more batshit spiel from him that you're not seeing here.

I think I saw it somewhere else, which is what I was thinking of. I think? who knows.

I don't blame the mods for revolting en masse. But I do blame people that are calling the guy a rapist. Like, really? There's not a prosecutor in the country that would even think of calling what happened rape or assault.
 

Randam

Member
Sure but she then said get out and he did.

He clearly tragically misread the situation. But as soon as she was able to assert consent, which she didnt. He left.

It's a really really bold play. And it really didn't pay off.

But no. I don't see this as a big deal at all.

You're all shitting yourselves over a funny story.

She must of found it ok if she was able to have sex with him a month or so after.

Extend the same charity. Well not the same. But you get it.
Even she said that in the article floating around here.
But imo it still wasn't ok and I believe that it made her uncomfortable.
 

ramuh

Member
Even she said that in the article floating around here.
But imo it still wasn't ok and I believe that it made her uncomfortable.

And what happened after that? Didn't he leave? Sounds like a misread more than anything.
 

Apocryphon

Member
If he thinks he has a leg to stand on, he should just sue whoever is in the way for slander, setting a precedent for good or bad.

It isn't that easy.

If he did want to take it to court, the onus to provide evidence contrary to what she posted falls on him and she gets the presumption of innocence that people have not afforded him. It doesn't seem likely that either party can prove of disprove the allegation.
 

caffeware

Banned
Feel like with this kind of pressure coming in and his investment into this thing, dude might end up killing himself. Know it sounds heartless to say this, but I've rarely seen someone being piled on so hard.

This is his entire life, his reputation is in tatters, people are gonna blacklist him, those same people who pretend to care about stuff are bullying him and behind this false air of bravado, there's a guy really feeling the heat.

Tyler Malka, I don't really care about you my man, but there's a bunch of dark thoughts probably swimming in your head from seeing that thing you helped grow chewing your hand out, so I'll just say this without so much as a hint of irony but rather some sympathy: do not kill yourself, you don't want to become a martyr for a silly discussion board.


Don't project.
 

Dyle

Member
As I posted earlier - lets say you are in Malka's shoes and ARE innocent (Maybe he isnt but for sake of argument).

What is the proper way to defend yourself as your reputation is destroyed? Any defense seems to be countered with "stop victim blaming!".

If I were him and know she is lying or conveniently leaving things out, Id sue her for defamation.

Just simply say, "this isn't true". EL's quotes from this article are textbook examples of character assassination, trying to demonstrate that she is an unreliable witness. He has torn her down, a strategy which is borderline impossible to be successful in a court of law or the court of public opinion. As difficult as it is, turning the other cheek, donating money to RAINN or other charities, or showing that he genuinely cares about women's rights would have also been more likely to be successful. His words in the Waypoint article are undeniably malicious and I cannot see how someone can continue to give him the benefit of the doubt after reading them.

You can't sue for defamation and win something like this, EL would get his ass handed to him, and rightfully so. Given EL's history as related in the Waypoint article, he would be slammed as predatory and would have zero chance of winning. She would get a hefty payout once all's said and done. This case is he said, she said, and when he has a long history of questionable statements on sex posted within gaf, he is never going to win that shit.
 
Wait, she left the bathroom door open.

And she was in a polyamorous relationship.

And they had consensual sex at a later date.

And now she's calling it a "creepy thing" instead of sexual assault.

anigif_enhanced-27871-1391020908-8.gif
 

numble

Member
Don't put words in my mouth. She could have had and expressed zero interest and he could still have taken an incorrect reading of the situation. I wasn't there, I don't know what transpired before the shower incident. Nobody else here knows either. We have a Facebook post to go off and that is all. She isn't refuting that at a later date they had a consensual physical relationship and it's fairly clear that they parted ways further down the line and didn't remain friends. We don't know why.

The bottom line is that you can't just accuse somebody of something like this, fail to provide any kind of evidence, and expect zero push back. He wasn't accused of sexual assault or rape as many here appear to believe, he wasn't even accused of sexual harassment. There has never been a formal accusation of anything whatsoever. It seems impossible at this point that either party can prove what really happened, but we do know that they remained on good terms immediately after the event and had a sexual relationship later on.

I haven't referenced anything Tyler has said and I'm not defending his response to the matter. What I am doing is taking the same position that the law takes. There is a presumption of innocence not a presumption of guilt and unless somebody can provide evidence to the contrary, I have no reason to believe that Tyler did anything other than misread a situation and drunkenly make a pass at a girl that he once knew. They were sharing a hotel room and they had been drinking heavily, to the point where one of them was throwing up. Even if I take Ima 100% at her word, I still can't get to a point where it's acceptable that people are calling for his job and telling him to kill himself.
He has leveled accusations at her. Do you presume her innocent or guilty of those accusations? Are you a lawyer? The law actually would require him to prove those accusations in a civil suit.

The bottom line is that you can't just accuse somebody of something like this, fail to provide any kind of evidence, and expect zero push back.
 

pringles

Member
I've been on vacation in Orlando, was super busy for several days. When I left NeoGAF, everything was fine, everything was good. Then I finally returned and the place was on fire.

Seriously, I felt like I was living that Community gif.
Same. Noticed GAF was down, thought no more if it, check the site this morning and... :-d

As a member since 2004 this.. sucks.
 

Dyle

Member
Wait, she left the bathroom door open.

And she was in a polyamorous relationship.

And they had consensual sex at a later date.

And now she's calling it a "creepy thing" instead of sexual assault.

None of those things constitute consent in the incident at hand and the idea that any of them might is the kind of victim blaming that prevents so many women from speaking up
 

RDreamer

Member
I think I saw it somewhere else, which is what I was thinking of. I think? who knows.

I don't blame the mods for revolting en masse. But I do blame people that are calling the guy a rapist. Like, really? There's not a prosecutor in the country that would even think of calling what happened rape or assault.

Where are you seeing someone calling him a rapist?

Also, there are a lot of laws against showing your dick to people who don't want to see it. So, like, even sending an unwanted dick pic to this girl would have been bad. Instead he went further!

Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient.

Showing up naked in the shower of someone who did not consent to it is sexual assault.
 
This thing is so knotted that it's not even worth dissecting.

There's nothing wrong with separating this event from the forum and letting them resolve this dispute on their own.

And this thread is just evidence that trying to determine what the moral imperative is here is a waste of your time.
 
Stop.

Seriously, what part of VICTIMS DO THESE SORTS OF THINGS ALL THE TIME do people not understand? Domestic abuse victims go home to their abusers. Rape victims rationalize things and sometimes get with their rapists. That's reality. I can attest myself to having some horrific bullying trauma where I befriended the people afterwards and sometimes it lasted and sometimes it didn't. In exactly none of these cases does that make the initial issue any better.

And no, the scenario under a different sense is not "pretty funny." Having someone you didn't consent to showing up in the shower with you at a vulnerable time like that is not "pretty funny." It will never be "pretty funny" to almost any woman that has ever existed. That's fucking terrifying to pretty much every one of them.

Seriously, this is disgusting.

This incident and domestic abuse are not even comparable. The factors of why abused vicitims stay in a domestic relationship are not present.

Also your experience regarding befriending your bully isn't comparable either. If, using your experience, the analog would be you befriending your bully and then asking him to beat you up which I'm sure you didn't do.
 

Keio

For a Finer World
Great memories but now GAF is over for me. Believe the women who are brave enough to share their stories.
 
Not calling her mentally ill would have been a good start.


Do you really not understand that she was a victim years before this erupted over the weekend?

A victim of what? Seeing a naked man in her vicinity?

Oh no! Its the naked man.

If you tell him to go away, he leaves! The horror!

Watch out! Its the naked man!

You need to stop getting high off your own drama.
 

Apocryphon

Member
He has leveled accusations at her. Do you presume her innocent or guilty of those accusations? Are you a lawyer? The law actually would require him to prove those accusations in a civil suit.

Right, and it's likely he can't, the same way it's unlikely she can evidence her accusation.

So what, something two people are unable to prove warrants this kind of pathetic outrage? I don't think so.
 

RDreamer

Member
This incident and domestic abuse are not even comparable. The factors of why abused vicitims stay in a domestic relationship are not present.

Also your experience regarding befriending your bully isn't comparable either. If, using your experience, the analog would be you befriending your bully and then asking him to beat you up.

Actual rape victims stay with their rapists or end up getting with their rapists. That's a real occurrence for a lot of people.

Victims try and rationalize things, they question themselves, they question the attacker. They go through a lot. And literally none of that has any bearing on the non-consent of the original action.

And no, it's not like asking them to beat me up. Giving consent is not an analogous act to unconsenting sexual assault.
 

Randomizer

Member
Wait. So she was staying in a hotel room with a guy, got into the shower and wasn't even sure if she closed the door fully? I mean two people drinking and sharing a hotel room and you leave the door cracked open and climb into the shower? I can see how that could be mistakenly misconstrued as an invitation.

The whole overreaction to this was laughable. And to make it clear I'm not giving Evilore a pass, some of his past behaviour and decisions are questionable. But imo there's not enough allegations or evidence to suggest this was nothing but a one off misunderstanding/mistake. It certainly wasn't enough to warranted such a crazy overblown reaction. There is two sides to every story. Not believing a person outright or questioning them is certainly not 'victim blaming/shaming'. People seem to be lacking critical thinking these days, I really hope none of you end up as jurors. If it played out as she said then that's pretty fucked up but we have no evidence other than her word, which is unfortunately not enough to prove this shit happened.

Neogaf really needed a reboot, indentity politics and social issues were becoming talked about more than actual games. Everyone has become so self righteous. Tensions are heightened because of the Nazi alt-right and Trump. But ffs people not everything is black and white, right or wrong. Anyone questioning so called 'progressive' issues or their importance or place in video game discussion was lambasted as racist/sexist/homophobic/xenophobic/gamergater/Nazi etc.

Some of us just want to have fun playing and talking about games and there is nothing wrong with that. You can do your thing and we can do ours, no reason to fling shit and label people. The whole 'if you aren't pushing these issues you don't support them' is complete and utter bullshit.

Anyway this is the last I'll speak of social & political issues on GAF.
 

Xtyle

Member
Where are you seeing someone calling him a rapist?

Also, there are a lot of laws against showing your dick to people who don't want to see it. So, like, even sending an unwanted dick pic to this girl would have been bad. Instead he went further!

Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient.

Showing up naked in the shower of someone who did not consent to it is sexual assault.

But we don't know what actually happened before the shower. We don't have the details other than they drank. Wouldn't context matter?
 

xevis

Banned
A victim of what? Seeing a naked man in her vicinity?

Oh no! Its the naked man.

If you tell him to go away, he leaves! The horror!

Watch out! Its the naked man!

You need to stop getting high off your own drama.

You're in the bathroom throwing up. You step into the shower because you've just been sick everywhere. Naked man creeps up behind and steps into the shower with you.

HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU NOT GOING TO BE TRAUMATISED BY THAT?!
 
His statement would have been a bannable offense on old proper gaf.
Directly attacking the mental health of the accuser.

Evilore is a shithead and deserves no forgiving, it is the same with him lying and saying he didn't knew avout Amir0x.

Scum, come on m0dus, post is screenshotted, edit it to show how little both of you are.

You're saying Evilore knew Amirox was a pedophile? I'm curious why people keep saying this. I wouldn't think the mods knew each other intimately in their personal lives especially enough to find skeletons like that. Amirox confided in someone? He let it slip? What's the story?
 

numble

Member
Right, and it's likely he can't, the same way it's unlikely she can evidence her accusation.

So what, something two people are unable to prove warrants this kind of pathetic outrage? I don't think so.

He has claimed to have witnesses to the incident (I honestly think that is a lie, unless he recorded the shower incident). He claims there is a history of mental illness. He claims she wanted him dead. He claims she brought him to people that drugged him and attempted to abduct and rape another person and the involvement of cults. This is character assassination beyond a simple denial. Why should people not be outraged? Why do you think the mods resigned?

The bottom line is that you can't just accuse somebody of something like this, fail to provide any kind of evidence, and expect zero push back.
 
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