B:TAS (or TNBA if you consider that a separate thing) Nightwing wasn't a very good adaptation of the character in any case. I don't think Bruce Timm likes him.
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Batman and Harley Quinn |OT| Timm Animated Film, Digital (8/15) Blu-Ray (8/29)
- Thread starter Grizzlyjin
- Start date
MisterHero
Super Member
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
What's LA referring to?
I'll admit that what I've seen of JL Action was pretty damn good. But those direct to video films have mostly been terrible for quite a long time now. Throne of Atlantis was the last one I thought was passable.
Tizoc
Member
Was that before or after Gods and Monsters?
Before I think
What is this, Ghostbusters 2016?
Animated Nightwing has always been poorly represented.
Agree to disagree on that, I really enjoyed Justice League Dark, TTvsJL, Gods and Monsters, and Judas Contract.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Just checked wikipedia and that was before apparently and I forgot about it. Yeah, Gods and Monsters was all right but the dtvs have been pretty bad ever since imo: Batman: Bad Blood, Justice League vs. Teen Titans, Batman: The Killing Joke, Justice League Dark, Teen Titans: The Judas Contract and now this one based on the early impressions. I hope Gotham by Gaslight will be good because Elseworld stories are a gold mine. But I'm not holding my breath.
Tizoc
Member
Well i personally found gods and monsters to have decent animation imo
Didn't plan to do more of the shorts what happened to that
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Paul Dini isn't overlooking any of it.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
True. Although I thought Nightwing in Judas Contract was pretty good. He's fairly superfluous here. It's more padding. You really only need Batman (straight man) and Harley (wild card) for the comedy duo to work.
Batman's characterization is off too. Sometimes he's absolutely robotic, and other times he's weirdly campy. If Harley lightened him up over the course of the journey, that would be fine. But there really isn't a journey.
Still, didn't hate it as much as The Killing Joke. That I found genuinely distasteful. This is more boring and cheap than anything, with sprinklings of crudeness. Some of the scenes between Sarge Steel and Batman actually got chuckles out of me.
Better than this
That first music number was sort of alright, just went for a bit long. Aside from the cheap animation cycles and wildly inconsistent staging.
The second song was fucking awful, and it looked real bad for the most part.
Most of the shit people are responding to is in the first third. After that, it mostly becomes pretty standard, if underwhelming, fare.
WhiskeyDiver
Member
I laughed, and I'm not ashamed that I did. As long as Conroy continues to be Batman, I'll take any animated Batman Movies I can get.
Seriously. There needs to be 20 foot tall, bronze cast statues of Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill in front of DC headquarters.
Meant more the score
But also agree
Though again song from the episode was much better
Yeah I think unlike Killing joke or even the good movies
No one is going to remember this
Yeah it's exceedingly average. Not offensive or bad. Just there.
I think it's bad but like boring bad not killing joke or bvs bad hell even the new 52 movies have entertaining action scenes.
This has nothing
I made the mistake of watching this at the theater last night.
Ugh, I squirmed a bit. After the backlash from killing joke this just seems really tone deaf with the awkward sex stuff.
Granted it's light hearted here but I'm not sure that makes it any better.
I think your giving it too much credit.
It's bordering on offense with all the panty shots, nightwing boner, and her song number with the mic stand and boobie shake. That combined with the throw away story, it's a stinker.
Ugh, I squirmed a bit. After the backlash from killing joke this just seems really tone deaf with the awkward sex stuff.
Granted it's light hearted here but I'm not sure that makes it any better.
I think your giving it too much credit.
It's bordering on offense with all the panty shots, nightwing boner, and her song number with the mic stand and boobie shake. That combined with the throw away story, it's a stinker.
Teren_Kanan
Member
I am fucking dead at that clip.
HOLY SHIT!
"it's not so bad"
Please.
HOLY SHIT!
"it's not so bad"
Please.
mariachi507
Member
If you would have told me ten years ago that I would later wish that Bruce Timm would stay the fuck away from all DC projects I wouldn't have believed you. Now, here we are.
Astral Dog
Member
I will say this, the movie has a few qualities, its a shameful product with dumb, gross jokes, vapid animation, dissapointing voice acting ,paper thin plot and character assasination.
But it is entertaining, compared to some DC Animated movies at least. (Worth a very cheap)rental if only to see how low can they go
But it is entertaining, compared to some DC Animated movies at least. (Worth a very cheap)rental if only to see how low can they go
Same group who animated Mask of the Phantasm, the best Batman movie.
Messofanego
Banned
But I love you for it.I hate myself for this....
#1 defender
Member
Meanwhile, TV show from nearly 25 years ago...
Now post some gifs from the first episode of this two-parter, it's on the opposite end of the spectrum, imo some of the worst animation in the show. Which is to say, unfortunately these gifs aren't exactly representative of the show as a whole. They had a huge workload back then and the top animation studios just weren't always available, so they had to pick and choose.
JL Dark and the two TT movies were pretty good though, and if you thought JL Throne of Atlantis was decent, then i'd say Bad Blood was passable too.
No, but it's still amazing this was the animation for a TV show over two decades ago compared to an animated movie of the character released this week.
Okay... I can do that too!
Definitely a step down from Part 2, especially as there was almost zero action in Part 1, but the animation is still better than average today and better than many of the recent direct-to-DVD output as well. I'm still impressed by the staging, shadows, shot composition, etc.
And the thing is... you're right! This episode DOES have some of the worst animation in the show!... So if this was the lowest bar we got, the rest of the show was a DREAM of top-notch animation work that is unrivaled by anything except, perhaps, Gargoyles.
In fact, someone GIF-ified almost every episode in the show.
Stunning work.
autumnleaf
Member
Only when Bruce Timm is involved who seems to hate the character.
#1 defender
Member
No, but it's still amazing this was the animation for a TV show over two decades ago compared to an animated movie of the character released this week.
Okay... I can do that too!
Definitely a step down from Part 2, especially as there was almost zero action in Part 1, but the animation is still better than average today and better than many of the recent direct-to-DVD output as well. I'm still impressed by the staging, shadows, shot composition, etc.
And the thing is... you're right! This episode DOES have some of the worst animation in the show!... So if this was the lowest bar we got, the rest of the show was a DREAM of top-notch animation work that is unrivaled by anything except, perhaps, Gargoyles.
In fact, someone GIF-ified almost every episode in the show.
Stunning work.
At the bolded, that's all well and nice, i can find something to like even in the handful of really bad episodes, but i'm talking about the actual animation, making things move, not the mise-en-scene.
The Batwing - car chase looks pretty awful and when i watch it i wait for it to be over soon. No sense of speed whatsoever and the car physics conveyed through the animation are something else. I haven't watched it in a while, but those particularly stand out in my mind and i'm pretty sure there are some other rough spots. I love BTAS, but not all episodes were phantastically animated, not by a long shot.
The majority were. That's my point. Part 1 was a low-point, and Part 2 was a highlight, for sure, but the average episode was lightyears beyond animation of both its time and, well, current animation today.
And that even at its WORST, Batman was still better-animated than a lot of what we're getting even now.
Rewatch the Batwing interrogation though.
It's pretty good. (In español because that's all I could find)
#1 defender
Member
I love the film noir inspired look and mood (camera angles, lighting, music) that BTAS conveys and can therefore find some elements that will keep me watching even the worst episodes from start to finish. I won't pretend that these modern animated features (or series) evoke a similarly strong sense of style, but on the other hand quite a few of them feature some really well staged and choreographed action sequences, and since we're talking about action cartoons, that does hold some merit in my eyes.
Maybe i'm conflating things a bit, since i've recently watched through STAS again, but the action staging and animation could be pretty awkward at times, even disregarding the deliberate awkwardness of the more down to earth action in the early DCAU.
Regarding that clip, look at how the car is moving, why is it driving on two wheels at random times? Also look at the top down view of the car on the highway, does that look right?
Also, when Batman drops the thug it looks like he's gonna miss the pool, but then he suddenly changes direction at the last moment to fall into it.
I liked it because the thug driving the car is clearly driving erratically and recklessly. It's not random; he's driving poorly. And, no, the top-down view is also bad because you can see him driving across the middle lines and not staying in his lane. It's actually a nice little detail, I thought.
And I didn't think the thug was going to miss the pool so much as it was the fact he wasn't just falling straight down but still had inertia from the Batwing, so he keeps moving to the side instead of just going straight down. I've seen it in videos before. Again, not the best animation, but I would not single it out as an example of something horrendous to see. You can even see his limbs shift upwards as he spins through the air a bit. Little touches that as an animator I actually appreciate.
Though this is getting wildly off-topic regarding the new Harley Quinn/Batman movie.
I'll just say that I still think the old show - even the episode I was asked to bring up to show how "bad" it was - is superior to what I'm seeing in the new film.
#1 defender
Member
Driving erratically could have been conveyed by animating the effect of weight and momentum on the car's suspension, instead of going for sidewards wheelies when neither the speed nor direction would warrant such behaviour. This way the vehicular animation just looks way too stiff (to be fair, CGI car models in modern animation rarely get this right either). The overhead shot looks bad imo because the car's perspective is all wrong, not because it's driving over the line. It looks like it's driving on two wheels again. And yes, i get what you're saying about inertia, falling to the side after the drop from the batwing, but the problem is it looks as if he's falling towards the right side first and then he takes a sudden turn to the left to hit the pool.
But it's ok, i understand overlooking flaws in execution and what not if one likes the work as a whole, i do that too, it's just that i find it slightly unfair that these newer animations will get made fun of for less, while forgetting that everything wasn't perfect "back then" either.
Anyway, i agree that we've gone off topic for long enough now. Let's just agree on our common love of BTAS. I just got my imported Mask of the Phantasm BD the other day and can't wait to watch it on an peaceful evening.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Going in I thought i'd hate it...
I actually enjoyed it for what it was, a BTAS parody.
I lost my shit at
with them in the Batwing.
I actually enjoyed it for what it was, a BTAS parody.
I lost my shit at
the BTAS theme playing
Praetorpwj
Member
All the best BTAS animation was done at TMS Entertainment (Tokyo Movie Shinsha). Unfortunately the decision was made at WB to give all the Animaniacs stuff to TMS so a lot of other animation houses were involved in rotation even splitting the 2 part stories. Hence the contrast in quality between parts of Feat of Clay and Two Face.
What the actual fuck. Bruce Timm just flushed all credibility down the toilet.