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TheDanger
Banned
(09-13-2017, 07:58 AM)
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At one point Jack reads a playgirl magazine, you cant make out the text in the movie:



we can make out what issue it is though:



Obviously I am talking about the incest bit, Kubrick being a detail nazi I severely doubt this was a coincidence, also the jack and danny bedroom scene has a rapey vibe to it imo. I think Kubrick really wanted to drop very subtle hints that Jack wasn't just physically abusing him, but also sexually.

There is way more to this theory here:

http://www.collativelearning.com/the...chap%2016.html
brianmcdoogle
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:08 AM)
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Jack is an alternative name for John, as in John F Kennedy. Daniel Goldin was NASA Administrator during 9/11. Think about it.
8BitsAtATime
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:09 AM)
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Is there a answer in Doctor Sleep?
JCHandsom
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:10 AM)
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Surprised we don't see more Shining conspiracy threads.
Mandius
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:10 AM)
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It is all I think about.



but no
obin_gam
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:11 AM)
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Collative Learning has a fixation with sexually molestation inuendos in movies. According to that guy, The Exorcist is also about just that.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:12 AM)
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Jack should have read the article on avoiding dead-ends instead
Savitar
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(09-13-2017, 08:12 AM)
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Never heard about this referenced in response to the movie or novels and all the comparisons between them so going to say it's bullshit.
JCHandsom
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Doctoglethorpe

Jack should have read the article on avoiding dead-ends instead

okay that's pretty good
Zelenogorsk
Banned
(09-13-2017, 08:14 AM)

Originally Posted by 8BitsAtATime

Is there a answer in Doctor Sleep?

I don't remember such a thing ever being referenced or hinted at in either The Shining (the book) or Doctor Sleep.

As far as the film goes? I'll wait for Room 237 2!
SiteSeer
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:22 AM)
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its a good theory but as with most things of this nature concerning a kubrick film: you have to make up your own mind. you'll almost never get a confirmation one way or another.
Herr Starr
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Savitar

Never heard about this referenced in response to the movie or novels and all the comparisons between them so going to say it's bullshit.

Well, it would certainly seem to betray the character from the novel at least, but the movie is so detached from the novel that I don't know if it matters. Heck, even the name of the movie/novel itself has practically no relation to the movie's version of the plot.
TissueBox
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(09-13-2017, 08:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Doctoglethorpe

Jack should have read the article on avoiding dead-ends instead

At the same time I both laughed and thought, 'Wow, Kubrick's attention to detail might just be two-fold here.'
A Link to the Past
Snitch
(09-13-2017, 08:28 AM)
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I find Rob Ager's work very interesting, but the man is a milkshake duck to high heavens. I once got into a debate with him in the YouTube comments over affirmative action, and at the end he went on a tirade calling me an anti-white racist.
Robot Pants
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(09-13-2017, 08:52 AM)
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Gonna go with no
TheDanger
Banned
(09-13-2017, 10:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by SiteSeer

its a good theory but as with most things of this nature concerning a kubrick film: you have to make up your own mind. you'll almost never get a confirmation one way or another.

I guess that's true, still this one seems more plausible to me than most fan theories I have read, fan theories in general I mean.
Kuraudo
Banned
(09-13-2017, 10:43 AM)
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The themes of the film resonate many forms of abuse including sexual abuse. The magazine is likely a nod to that. But trying to read narrative intent into something so small is a little reductive as it turns the film's elements into a narrative puzzle.

I doubt Kubrick had some huge plot outlined beyond the film's script, at least to the extent that Jack was sexually abusing his son. It's more likely he was selecting a magazine, saw the piece about incest and was smart enough to recognise the thematic resonance to include it.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
(09-13-2017, 10:44 AM)
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No, just physical harm. This is blatantly explained in the film.
He's afraid of his dad because he knows the monster within.
Also, the control of his wife is more physical and psychological rather than sexual. I don't think there is an intimate scene between them.

I should read the book. It's one of the major King novels, I am lacking on.
Triggerhappytel
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(09-13-2017, 10:46 AM)
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I haven't watched this video yet, but the guy who runs Collative Learning has got some brilliant analysis videos about The Shining and The Thing in particular. His one analysing the layout of the Overlook Hotel is particularly interesting, in how Kubrick utilised a layout that made no sense in order to subconsciously convey a sense of confusion and unease on the viewer.
Jill Sandwich
the turds of Optimus Prime
(09-13-2017, 10:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by A Link to the Past

I find Rob Ager's work very interesting, but the man is a milkshake duck to high heavens. I once got into a debate with him in the YouTube comments over affirmative action, and at the end he went on a tirade calling me an anti-white racist.

Yeah I've been watching his vids for a while, some are quite interesting but the more I've watched the more reaching some of his theories are. He does have questionable politics.
pswii60
(09-13-2017, 10:47 AM)
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Nope.

Originally Posted by Triggerhappytel

I haven't watched this video yet, but the guy who runs Collative Learning has got some brilliant analysis videos about The Shining and The Thing in particular. His one analysing the layout of the Overlook Hotel is particularly interesting, in how Kubrick utilised a layout that made no sense in order to subconsciously convey a sense of confusion and unease on the viewer.

It's incredible just how iconic a movie set can be, after so many years. Even the carpet of the hotel alone is instantly recognisable. Well, every part of the hotel is. Such an incredible movie with so much attention to detail, I still don't get why King never cared for it.
iPaul93
Member
(09-13-2017, 10:49 AM)
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No.
TheDanger
Banned
(09-13-2017, 10:49 AM)
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so you all think it's just a coincidence?
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
(09-13-2017, 10:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheDanger

so you all think it's just a coincidence?

In a Kubrick film of a very psych horror novel, yes.

Man, that website is some geocities webring conspiracy stuff.
TheDanger
Banned
(09-13-2017, 10:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by pswii60

Nope.

It's incredible just how iconic a movie set can be, after so many years. Even the carpet of the hotel alone is instantly recognisable. Well, every part of the hotel is. Such an incredible movie with so much attention to detail, I still don't get why King never cared for it.

I think mainly because Jack gives off a fairly evil and psychotic vibe from pretty much the beginning of the movie, which wasn't the case at all in the book apparently iirc, I never read it. He also thought Wendy was way whinier and dumber than book wendy or something I think.
Kuraudo
Banned
(09-13-2017, 10:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheDanger

so you all think it's just a coincidence?

What I think is that most films aren't narrative puzzles, especially Kubrick's films. The Shining like most art is not designed to drop little clues for the audience to turn into Sherlock Holmes and try to decipher what really happened. It's meant to unsettle in its depiction of supernatural horror and the resonance of that horror with real world abuse.

Kubrick may have included the magazine intentionally because of that article or it may indeed be a coincidence. But he definitely didn't choose it as a clue to some larger narrative about Jack beyond the film's borders.
snausagesUK
Member
(09-13-2017, 10:56 AM)
He was violent but not sexually abusive iirc
StayDead
um wat
(09-13-2017, 10:56 AM)
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I don't think he did. I think deep down Jack actually cared about Danny prior to everything hence why he wanted the heart to heart. He had physically hurt him before, but I think before Jack went insane he probably did feel guilty about it.
daviyoung
Banned
(09-13-2017, 10:58 AM)
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What would this add to the story?
yepyepyep
Member
(09-13-2017, 11:03 AM)
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There's no innuendo or any indication that there was anything sexual about the childhood abuse. Jack admits physically assaulting Danny and there is a deleted scene where Wendy admits to a doctor that Jack has physically hurt him before. What would be the reason for Kubrick to hide such a backstory in the most minute details in the mise en scene of the film?

Even though Kubrick was anal about things, sometimes I think there is a misconception where it is almost like Kubrick had already predefined his entire films to the smallest detail before filming. By a lot of accounts with people working with him, the reason why he took so long to film is because he wanted to shoot as many possible options and experiment with the best way to shoot scenes. During the Shining the script was constantly rewritten each day that Nicholson stopped trying to memorise his lines and began learning them on the spot because there were so many changes.

Nicole Kidman said that when doing Eyes Wide Shut they would do so many different types of takes that Kubrick would allow actors to do their own free takes where they could do what they wanted.
pswii60
(09-13-2017, 11:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheDanger

I think mainly because Jack gives off a fairly evil and psychotic vibe from pretty much the beginning of the movie, which wasn't the case at all in the book apparently iirc, I never read it. He also thought Wendy was way whinier and dumber than book wendy or something I think.

That's just Nicholson's face, he can't help it :)
ronaldthump
Member
(09-13-2017, 11:16 AM)
no
SillyEskimo
Member
(09-13-2017, 11:20 AM)
The shadow of the helicopter during the opening drive is about helicopter parenting.
ponpo
( ≖‿≖)
(09-13-2017, 11:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Doctoglethorpe

Jack should have read the article on avoiding dead-ends instead

God damn. POETRY by kubrick
Travo
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(09-13-2017, 11:45 AM)
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Not in the book.
MarkMclovin
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(09-13-2017, 11:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Doctoglethorpe

Jack should have read the article on avoiding dead-ends instead

Fuck.
Shaanyboi
Banned
(09-13-2017, 11:54 AM)
I could see how someone would feel that it's implied.
Snoopycat
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(09-13-2017, 11:54 AM)
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No. There's nothing like that in the book and I imagine Stephen King would have had a total shit fit if Kubrick implied there was. He hates the film, that would have sent him over the edge.
Mascot
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(09-13-2017, 12:01 PM)
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Get a copy of that magazine and check out page 237.

Mind.
Blown.
sankt-Antonio
Member
(09-13-2017, 12:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mascot

Get a copy of that magazine and check out page 237.

Mind.
Blown.

Ya, Playgirl magazine really was telephone book thick back in 1979 lol.
HeelPower
Member
(09-13-2017, 12:55 PM)
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Isnt there a scene where two people dressed in costume have oral sex on a bed ?
Camwi
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(09-13-2017, 01:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by A Fish Aficionado

No, just physical harm. This is blatantly explained in the film.
He's afraid of his dad because he knows the monster within.
Also, the control of his wife is more physical and psychological rather than sexual. I don't think there is an intimate scene between them.

I should read the book. It's one of the major King novels, I am lacking on.

It's so, so much better than the movie.
Moonkid
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(09-13-2017, 01:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by A Link to the Past

I find Rob Ager's work very interesting, but the man is a milkshake duck to high heavens. I once got into a debate with him in the YouTube comments over affirmative action, and at the end he went on a tirade calling me an anti-white racist.

Yeah it was real eye-opening to learn he used to help run UKIP. Plus he has a few videos on political correctness and yeah... In hindsight some of the comments he made in the Starship Troopers analysis should have tipped me off more but I was a lot younger when I first viewed it.
Screaming Meat
Member
(09-13-2017, 01:12 PM)

Originally Posted by pswii60

It's incredible just how iconic a movie set can be, after so many years. Even the carpet of the hotel alone is instantly recognisable. Well, every part of the hotel is. Such an incredible movie with so much attention to detail, I still don't get why King never cared for it.

It's an absolute masterpiece, but it veers away from the book quite considerably as far as I remember. I imagine that's the crux of King's issue. Personally, I've always preferred the film by a wide margin, even though I really like a lot of King's stuff.

Originally Posted by TheDanger

so you all think it's just a coincidence?

Yeah. Dude is reaching with pretty much all his points.

Originally Posted by Kuraudo

What I think is that most films aren't narrative puzzles, especially Kubrick's films. The Shining like most art is not designed to drop little clues for the audience to turn into Sherlock Holmes and try to decipher what really happened. It's meant to unsettle in its depiction of supernatural horror and the resonance of that horror with real world abuse.

Kubrick may have included the magazine intentionally because of that article or it may indeed be a coincidence. But he definitely didn't choose it as a clue to some larger narrative about Jack beyond the film's borders.

Well put.
HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(09-13-2017, 01:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by A Fish Aficionado

No, just physical harm. This is blatantly explained in the film.
He's afraid of his dad because he knows the monster within.
Also, the control of his wife is more physical and psychological rather than sexual. I don't think there is an intimate scene between them.

I should read the book. It's one of the major King novels, I am lacking on.

Its ok, not one of his better works. Kubrick took the general premise of the book and ran with it and the movie is far better for it.
Unit 33
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(09-13-2017, 01:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moonkid

Yeah it was real eye-opening to learn he used to help run UKIP. Plus he has a few videos on political correctness and yeah... In hindsight some of the comments he made in the Starship Troopers analysis should have tipped me off more but I was a lot younger when I first viewed it.

I think I only realised when he made a video or two about 'A Clockwork Orange' actually being an anti EU peice, seemed to be reaching there to justify or support his own political ideas.
Mister Wilhelm
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(09-13-2017, 01:24 PM)
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Absolutely not and frankly I find this theory ridiculous.
metalgear89
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(09-13-2017, 01:26 PM)
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My theory is jack died along time ago and it is actually arya being controlled by bran.
EGM1966
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(09-13-2017, 01:30 PM)
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It's a possibility but not definite. Kubrick clearly made Danny, Wendy and Jack unreliable narrators. It's part of what subtly unbalanced us the audience - same as the meaningless cards telling us it's "Wednesday" like it means something.

Thus I strongly doubt Kubrick meant for the audience to be definite about anything in the movie: even the supernatural is simply a maybe here - that irked King although it's far better angle I'd argue.

So sure could he be? Yup and there are some hints here and there. But ultimately what played out is uncertain in the film which is its core advantage over the novel: the uncertainty haunts you and makes you return to the puzzle again and again despite there being no actual solution to be derived.
Razorback PT
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(09-13-2017, 01:35 PM)
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Kubrick is my favorite director but this notion that absolutely everything up on the screen was purposefully put there is a myth. Many of his movies have continuity errors. He's not anal about such details, his perfectionism lies elsewhere.

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