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The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
(09-13-2017, 08:06 PM)
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https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...c-single-payer

Behind closed doors, so second hand accounts, but here it is. There are things I like, like the staggered four year rollout which I think helps fight some of the "counter-inertia" by enrolling large groups at once, and things I don't like like the bizarre idea of actually outlawing private insurance.

Have at it folks

EDIT: Is the full public reveal later today?
night814
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:11 PM)
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It's a start, at least we will see them talk about it on the floor.
ApharmdX
Banned
(09-13-2017, 08:12 PM)
I really like the 4 year roll-out. I'm reserving judgment on the whole thing until details are public in its entirety, but I must say I love how Bernie is taking the reigns of the Democratic Party. The future of the party, if progressive policy positions become its default, feels brighter to me, and I'm excited, even though this bill is political gesturing at this point in time.
Chindogg
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:12 PM)
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Respect for him trying and gathering at least 15 other senators to step forward.

Too bad Pelosi and Schumer can't step forward with them.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
(09-13-2017, 08:12 PM)
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Yeah I somehow missed the actual reveal is happening right as I posted this. Whelp we'll probably get a new thread!
Guevara
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:13 PM)
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If you outlaw insurance only outlaws will have insurance
brochiller
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:13 PM)
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Would even 1 Republican vote for this?
Boke1879
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by brochiller

Would even 1 Republican vote for this?

Hell no
pigeon
Banned
(09-13-2017, 08:14 PM)
From PoliGAF:

Originally Posted by pigeon

I actually...really like Bernie's bill. I think the changes he made to get Dem support are whip-smart politically. The four-year timeline provides bite-sized pieces that should make negotiation easier. Don't want to overhaul America in four years? Draw it out to the ten-year window instead! Easy changes.

The key aspect of the bill is not changing what it does in the first year. Once the bill is benefiting people it will have a natural constituency that will help move the process forward. The rest of the timeline is pretty malleable.

Personally, I would want to add in a buy-in for Medicare in the first year as well in the event that the timeline gets extended. It's also not really clear why private insurance needs to be outlawed.

Kicking off the pay-fors to a separate bill is actually...pretty smart. There is no particular reason our goals need to be tied one-to-one to our ability to fundraise.

Overall, pretty good!

ErasureAcer
Banned
(09-13-2017, 08:14 PM)
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https://www.clickondetroit.com/live/...-care-proposal

A live stream. Doctor and a nurse just spoke (since I've been watching).
entremet
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by brochiller

Would even 1 Republican vote for this?

Many Democrats aren't voting for it either. Good effort by Bernie to get it on the public consciousness, though.
Hollywood Duo
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by brochiller

Would even 1 Republican vote for this?

Maybe 1, not any more than that though.
Aaronrules380
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by brochiller

Would even 1 Republican vote for this?

This is purely a show, nobody in washington has any illusions about this actually passing
gutter_trash
Banned
(09-13-2017, 08:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chindogg

Respect for him trying and gathering at least 15 other senators to step forward.

Too bad Pelosi and Schumer can't step forward with them.


There are still 3 years of Trump damage left. Pelosi and Schumer are doing their best to stop or slow the Trump damage.

defending ACA, Dreamers, Planned Parenthood, Medicare, Medicaid in the Present Tense
kirblar
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:15 PM)
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This did not need to be a part of this bill.
djplaeskool
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by brochiller

Would even 1 Republican vote for this?

Expect to hear the word Socialism/Socialist a lot in the near future.
Straight up outlawing private insurance is a non-starter.
yankeeforever2
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:15 PM)
Outlawing private insurance is a non starter with most of congress, would never get support and it is not a good idea.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
(09-13-2017, 08:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by yankeeforever2

Outlawing private insurance is a non starter with most of congress, would never get support and it is not a good idea.

I don't get why its in there. Its the one thing that doesn't make any kind of sense
balladofwindfishes
(09-13-2017, 08:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by kirblar

This did not need to be a part of this bill.

Yep, kills the entire bill that is otherwise pretty decently designed (beyond not knowing how to pay for it, but that can be hashed out later)
AmayaPapaya
Banned
(09-13-2017, 08:17 PM)

Originally Posted by Boke1879

Hell no

Same as Obamacare, then.
Aaronrules380
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by balladofwindfishes

Yep, kills the entire bill that is otherwise pretty decently designed (beyond not knowing how to pay for it, but that can be hashed out later)

Not knowing how to pay for it is an incredibly major flaw
Sobriquet
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by kirblar

This did not need to be a part of this bill.

Nope. Just start with a public option and go from there.
balladofwindfishes
(09-13-2017, 08:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Aaronrules380

Not knowing how to pay for it is an incredibly major flaw

For a random bill everyone knows is going to never become law, it's not that big of a deal. That can be worked out later. It's probably a big deal with PR though. He should have at least made a half ass plan to pay for it.
BotoxAgent
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:18 PM)
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man, this is going to embolden insurance companies to lobby harder for Republicans :/
Chindogg
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by gutter_trash

There are still 3 years of Trump damage left. Pelosi and Schumer are doing their best to stop or slow the Trump damage.

defending ACA, Dreamers, Planned Parenthood, Medicare, Medicaid in the Present Tense

Fighting to not lose has continuously been a shit strategy for Democrats and it's frustrating how they continue to follow the playbook in hopes that one day voters will realize they were right.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
(09-13-2017, 08:19 PM)
LOL at outlawing private insurance. Classic Bernie. Start with a decent idea and then take it to an extreme to make it completely untenable.
badcrumble
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:19 PM)
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Putting kids all in the first-stage rollout is a smart idea for the same reasons that Medicare in its original form targeting seniors is a smart idea.

As for outlawing private insurance, that seems to me to be an incorrect/blunt-instrument solution to the very real problem we face today of doctors refusing medicare/medicaid patients because they won't make enough money. That's a problem that does need solving, and some solution is better than none, but I'm not convinced that this is the right one. I'm also not convinced, though, that "outlawing private health insurance" is an accurate descriptor of what's in the bill - it sure sounds like it could be a glib mischaracterization.
kirblar
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chindogg

Fighting to not lose has continuously been a shit strategy for Democrats and it's frustrating how they continue to follow the playbook in hopes that one day voters will realize they were right.

Did you think we were "fighting not to lose in '09"? Because that's very much not what happened.
KissVibes
Banned
(09-13-2017, 08:20 PM)
Democrats need some Icy Hot to get rid of The Bern. He is fucking up THE MOST BASIC AND GOOD ideas.

Originally Posted by kirblar

This did not need to be a part of this bill.

To many people this reads as "Hey millions of Americans, you'd all lose your fucking jobs!"
Aaronrules380
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(09-13-2017, 08:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by balladofwindfishes

For a random bill everyone knows is going to never become law, it's not that big of a deal. That can be worked out later. It's probably a big deal with PR though. He should have at least made a half ass plan to pay for it.

I'd say even in this case it's still a bad thing because not including a detail like that is basically admitting you don't have a good idea on how to go about doing it. And while anyone with the slightest bit of political savvy knows this was never going to become law, a lot of Americans are idiots
djplaeskool
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Aaronrules380

Not knowing how to pay for it is an incredibly major flaw

I guess the idea is to eventually filter the billions we pay for private coverage all into Medicare? Then just... get rid of private insurance?

I dunno man, this sort of torpedoes the whole thing
benicillin
Banned
(09-13-2017, 08:21 PM)
I don't think getting rid of private insurance would be part of an actual bill that was designed to pass the senate and the house.
pigeon
Banned
(09-13-2017, 08:21 PM)

Originally Posted by balladofwindfishes

For a random bill everyone knows is going to never become law, it's not that big of a deal. That can be worked out later. It's probably a big deal with PR though. He should have at least made a half ass plan to pay for it.

Hot take, let's mint the coin to pay for it.

Remember, money is a fake idea, taxes don't finance government!
ApharmdX
Banned
(09-13-2017, 08:21 PM)
Why outlaw private insurance? If you provide government coverage for all, let people who need supplemental coverage pay for that from private insurers out of pocket.

I don't understand the thinking. I mean, fuck private health care in the US, the vultures, but if you want to buy your own supplemental coverage why not leave that as an option?
adj_noun
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by brochiller

Would even 1 Republican vote for this?

Remember the face melting scene at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark?

Replace the Ark with this bill and you have a reasonable expectation of Republican reactions.
excelsiorlef
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chindogg

Fighting to not lose has continuously been a shit strategy for Democrats and it's frustrating how they continue to follow the playbook in hopes that one day voters will realize they were right.

Different people can do different jobs. This is a show bill. Pelosi and Schumer not signing on now doesn't mean they'll oppose later.
makingmusic476
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:22 PM)
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I don't get why they'd outlaw private insurance. Systems like the UK's all allow the purchase of supplemental private insurance.

Aside from that, I think the bill is great.

Also, they need to scream from the rooftops that while taxes will obviously go up, people won't be paying absurd private insurance premiums any more.

A single-payer system will be expensive. Our current system is more expensive.
MsKrisp
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(09-13-2017, 08:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by kirblar

This did not need to be a part of this bill.

I know the private health insurance industry is fucked and there needs to be a solution, but this bit sounds completely impossible
SlipperyFishes
Banned
(09-13-2017, 08:22 PM)

Originally Posted by kirblar

This did not need to be a part of this bill.

It should be mandatory to enroll in single payer ala NHS but still offer people the chance to add on top of that with Private.
StoOgE
First tragedy, then farce.
(09-13-2017, 08:23 PM)
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Outlawing private insurance is going to really be unpopular.

Dems need to push hybrid models like Germany and Holland for universal healthcare.

https://www.economist.com/news/unite...e-can-be-found
Zoe
(09-13-2017, 08:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by benicillin

I don't think getting rid of private insurance would be part of an actual bill that was designed to pass the senate and the house.

The House bill sounds even stricter. Wonder why nobody's been talking about that one.


About financing:

During the presidential campaign, Sanders released a seven-point plan for raising $6 trillion for his bill. Yet in this new rollout, he will releasing different options to raise money for the bill separately — independent of the bill he’s gotten 13 Senate Democrats to co-sponsor. That will make it easier for Senate Democrats to co-sponsor the legislation and win over Sanders’s supporters, but also not co-sign their names to legislation calling for billions in new personal income taxes (as Sanders’s primary campaign plan did).

“What I can say is we are going to be listing a number of revenue-raising proposals,” Sanders said of the bill’s financing.

AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by yankeeforever2

Outlawing private insurance is a non starter with most of congress, would never get support and it is not a good idea.

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense.

Could be a built in concession though.
Aaronrules380
Member
(09-13-2017, 08:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by excelsiorlef

Different people can do different jobs. This is a show bill. Pelosi and Schumer not signing on now doesn't mean they'll oppose later.

yeah, I don't get why people don't understand this. They're in a completely different position from the average congressman in that they don't just speak for themselves. They can't make decisions on stuff like this based purely on their own feelings
Volimar
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(09-13-2017, 08:23 PM)
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I think a four year rollout might be too fast but given the pendulum of American politics I can see the need to do it that fast. And hopefully the ACA has made people at least a little more involved in their insurance decisions that they'll be able to get on board faster.
StoOgE
First tragedy, then farce.
(09-13-2017, 08:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by ApharmdX

Why outlaw private insurance? If you provide government coverage for all, let people who need supplemental coverage pay for that from private insurers out of pocket.

I don't understand the thinking. I mean, fuck private health care in the US, the vultures, but if you want to buy your own supplemental coverage why not leave that as an option?


It's *super* dumb. Medigap insurance and supplemental insurance on top of Medicare are *super* popular.

This is like the Canadian system where private insurance isn't allowed at all that all my Canadian friends bitch about non-stop.

Edit: Canadians can get private insurance. I was mis-informed by my Canadian friends who complain constantly about something relating to not getting private insurance.
pigeon
Banned
(09-13-2017, 08:25 PM)

Originally Posted by Zoe

The House bill sounds even stricter. Wonder why nobody's been talking about that one.

I've been talking about it! For some reason people are only interested in Bernie's bill. It's a hard road being a black congressman.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
(09-13-2017, 08:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Volimar

I think a four year rollout might be too fast but given the pendulum of American politics I can see the need to do it that fast. And hopefully the ACA has made people at least a little more involved in their insurance decisions that they'll be able to get on board faster.

Honestly I will expect it to take at least 5-8, but the important part is to get tens of millions of people onto it fast so that then they're going to react poorly if the GOP tries to take it away again
Chindogg
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(09-13-2017, 08:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by kirblar

Did you think we were "fighting not to lose in '09"? Because that's very much not what happened.

Getting Bob Dole's healthcare plan that was sabotaged and used as ammunition by the GOP to take over Congress is very much playing to not lose and they still fucking lost.
theWB27
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(09-13-2017, 08:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by BotoxAgent

man, this is going to embolden insurance companies to lobby harder for Republicans :/

They will lobby harder for what the republicans put forth? Negotiations are a real thing.
teiresias
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(09-13-2017, 08:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by StoOgE

It's *super* dumb. Medigap insurance and supplemental insurance on top of Medicare are *super* popular.

This is like the Canadian system where private insurance isn't allowed at all that all my Canadian friends bitch about non-stop.

Yeah, outlawing it is completely ridiculous. By the time the system is setup there will be so many donut-holes anyway that people will absolutely NEED to have supplemental insurance in some cases? At that point they're stuck paying out of pocket as if they have no insurance again.

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