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Poetic.Injustice
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(09-13-2017, 10:12 PM)
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A senior Afghan security official, who had taken notes on the details of talks, rifled through a black leather-bound book until he came to a list he called "Taliban talking points."

The Afghan security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media, said the Taliban wanted certain amendments to the constitution although not immediately. They also envisioned an Islamic system of governance in Afghanistan, he said.

Among the Taliban's demands, according to the official:

They accepted education for boys and girls at all levels, but wanted segregation by gender.

Women could be employed in all fields, including defense and the judiciary, and they could serve as judges at all levels except the Supreme Court. However, the Taliban wanted constitutional guarantees that a woman could not be president.

Special courts should be established to oversee thousands of cases that allege land was taken illegally by the rich and powerful in the post-Taliban era. Many of the land owners are former warlords who are now in the government. The Taliban wants the land returned to those from whom it was taken.

Elections could be held after an interim government is established, with no one affiliated with past governments allowed to serve in the interim administration. The Taliban said all sides could keep areas currently under their control until voting is held.

But the Taliban told AP they were not interested in talks.

A member of the Afghan government's High Peace Council, Abdul Hakim Mujahed, who also served as the Taliban's representative at the United Nations during their rule, said there is deep mistrust on both sides.

Mujahed said it is also unlikely the Taliban will enter talks without a guarantee of an eventual troop withdrawal.

"They have moved away from demanding immediate withdrawal but they want a discussion with the Americans on a timetable," he said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...830-story.html
Luschient
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(09-13-2017, 10:21 PM)
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We've been in Afghanistan for what? 15+ years now?

And not only is the Taliban still around and apparently laying out plans for Afghanistan's future but they have fucking offices in other countries?

The Associated Press has seen documents describing the conversations between the Afghan officials and the Taliban leadership in both Pakistan and the Gulf state of Qatar, where they maintain an office.

Is the Talban just so entrenched in everyday life there that there's no way to eventually withdraw from that country without them being involved in a leadership capacity afterwards?
m3k
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(09-13-2017, 10:23 PM)
constitutionally no woman president or high court judges

well to be honest i expected worse
MikeMyers
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(09-13-2017, 10:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Luschient

We've been in Afghanistan for what? 15+ years now?

Since 2001. I think it is Anericas longest war.
Hello? This is Hailun!
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(09-13-2017, 10:24 PM)
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There will never be a withdrawal. America still has a presence in Japan.


Caesar never intends to withdraw his troops.
ebullientprism
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(09-13-2017, 10:26 PM)
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I dont know if negotiation with them is on the table or not but those demands.....not as bad as I thought?
BlazinSkatinAxel
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(09-13-2017, 10:26 PM)
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I expected worse.
Hollywood Duo
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(09-13-2017, 10:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by m3k

constitutionally no woman president or high court judges

well to be honest i expected worse

Me too, these guys are like green peace compared to ISIS
Poetic.Injustice
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(09-13-2017, 10:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Luschient

We've been in Afghanistan for what? 15+ years now?

And not only is the Taliban still around and apparently laying out plans for Afghanistan's future but they have fucking offices in other countries?



Is the Talban just so entrenched in everyday life there that there's no way to eventually withdraw from that country without them being involved in a leadership capacity afterwards?

They control 40% of the country.
snap
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(09-13-2017, 10:31 PM)

Elections could be held after an interim government is established, with no one affiliated with past governments allowed to serve in the interim administration. The Taliban said all sides could keep areas currently under their control until voting is held.

Read: nobody from the current non-Taliban government can come back to lead, and nobody who served in the Taliban government can either, but anybody in the Taliban leadership right now who wasn't in the government proper back then (and since it's been 15 years, that means a good amount of the current leadership) can serve in a new government. So Taliban gets over-represented just by the amount of candidates up for office and slowly roll back to an Islamic theocracy.
The Hamburglar
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(09-13-2017, 10:43 PM)
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Hilarious. Murderous oppressive regime turns socialist revolutionaries.
Poetic.Injustice
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(09-13-2017, 10:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by snap

Read: nobody from the current non-Taliban government can come back to lead, and nobody who served in the Taliban government can either, but anybody in the Taliban leadership right now who wasn't in the government proper back then (and since it's been 15 years, that means a good amount of the current leadership) can serve in a new government. So Taliban gets over-represented just by the amount of candidates up for office and slowly roll back to an Islamic theocracy.

Did you miss the word Interim?
Last edited by Poetic.Injustice; 09-13-2017 at 10:51 PM.
KillLaCam
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(09-13-2017, 10:55 PM)
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That's actually not as bad as I expected. But there's never gonna be a withdrawal and they're not gonna redistribute land
OriginofHysteria
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(09-13-2017, 11:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by MikeMyers

Since 2001. I think it is Anericas longest war.

It's insane to know that people that havent even been born when the conflict first started are now able to fight in this war.
How About No
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(09-13-2017, 11:11 PM)
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Baby steps the 1st world standards, I suppose. Funny that its the Fucking Taliban that wants this
Prost
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(09-13-2017, 11:14 PM)
Nah, they'll reverse all of that eventually and it'll be -shrug- sorry ladies.
evil solrac v3.0
(09-13-2017, 11:26 PM)
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Special courts should be established to oversee thousands of cases that allege land was taken illegally by the rich and powerful in the post-Taliban era. Many of the land owners are former warlords who are now in the government. The Taliban wants the land returned to those from whom it was taken.

this actually seems like a legitimate problem that should be resolved.
BosSin
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(09-13-2017, 11:30 PM)
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Hah those demands are rather tame
Mikey Jr.
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(09-13-2017, 11:32 PM)
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Like, it's not great. But at least women get some rights.
Sunster
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(09-13-2017, 11:34 PM)
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US is never leaving though so what are we even talking about?
RustyNails
with arms wide open / under the sunlight / welcome to this place / i'll show you everythaaaang
(09-13-2017, 11:36 PM)
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Edit: derp, confused with Pakistan.
Mugsy
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(09-13-2017, 11:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Poetic.Injustice

Did you miss the word Interim?

True but if the Interim government can make important decisions, oversee the next set of elections, etc. they could gain a lot of long lasting power from it.
saelz8
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(09-13-2017, 11:40 PM)

Originally Posted by Luschient

We've been in Afghanistan for what? 15+ years now?

And not only is the Taliban still around and apparently laying out plans for Afghanistan's future but they have fucking offices in other countries?



Is the Talban just so entrenched in everyday life there that there's no way to eventually withdraw from that country without them being involved in a leadership capacity afterwards?

Yes, they are. It's practically a Pashtun nationalist movement, taken to a religious extreme. Pashtun's are 50% of Afghanistan and 15% of Pakistan.There's no resolution in Afghanistan, without at least having some kind of dialogue with The Taliban.

Their support is almost entirely predicted by ethnicity.
Aliquidmeri
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(09-13-2017, 11:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by snap

Read: nobody from the current non-Taliban government can come back to lead, and nobody who served in the Taliban government can either, but anybody in the Taliban leadership right now who wasn't in the government proper back then (and since it's been 15 years, that means a good amount of the current leadership) can serve in a new government. So Taliban gets over-represented just by the amount of candidates up for office and slowly roll back to an Islamic theocracy.

Lol, "slowly."
ntropy
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(09-13-2017, 11:43 PM)

Originally Posted by Hollywood Duo

Me too, these guys are like green peace compared to ISIS

what an absurd comparison lol
MikeMyers
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(09-13-2017, 11:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by saelz8

Yes, they are. It's practically a Pashtun nationalist movement, taken to a religious extreme. Pashtun's are 50% of Afghanistan and 15% of Pakistan.There's no resolution in Afghanistan, without at least having some kind of dialogue with The Taliban.

Their support is almost entirely predicted by ethnicity.

Are the Taliban in Pakistan the same as the one in Afghanistan? We rarely ever hear about the former.
astroturfing
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(09-13-2017, 11:49 PM)
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hmm, are they more or less extremist than Saudi Arabia?
snap
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(09-13-2017, 11:52 PM)

Originally Posted by Poetic.Injustice

Did you miss the word Interim?

An interim government that would have Taliban over-representation would be responsible for the elections for the permanent government. Should be obvious how that can go bad.

Originally Posted by MikeMyers

Are the Taliban in Pakistan the same as the one in Afghanistan? We rarely ever hear about the former.

Yes, afaik. Much of their supports comes from accross the border, which is why the US routinely runs drone strikes in Pakistan.
Last edited by snap; 09-13-2017 at 11:54 PM.
SpiralZilla
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(09-14-2017, 12:01 AM)
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I'm honestly surprised they say they're willing to give rights to women, but barring them from the highest offices is still horribly unacceptable. I also don't fully believe them.
ahoyhoy
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(09-14-2017, 12:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Prost

Nah, they'll reverse all of that eventually and it'll be -shrug- sorry ladies.

Yeah. Not sure how you can trust them.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
(09-14-2017, 12:04 AM)
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The troops will never withdraw from Afghanistan and they wont "win" there either.
Grexeno
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(09-14-2017, 12:05 AM)
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Women could be employed in all fields, including defense and the judiciary, and they could serve as judges at all levels except the Supreme Court. However, the Taliban wanted constitutional guarantees that a woman could not be president.

Poetic.Injustice
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(09-15-2017, 10:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by snap

An interim government that would have Taliban over-representation would be responsible for the elections for the permanent government. Should be obvious how that can go bad.



Yes, afaik. Much of their supports comes from accross the border, which is why the US routinely runs drone strikes in Pakistan.

An interim setup is usually with neutral people who can conduct elections, that's up to the negotiators who they nominate as neutral people.
Weckum
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(09-15-2017, 10:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Luschient

We've been in Afghanistan for what? 15+ years now?

And not only is the Taliban still around and apparently laying out plans for Afghanistan's future but they have fucking offices in other countries?



Is the Talban just so entrenched in everyday life there that there's no way to eventually withdraw from that country without them being involved in a leadership capacity afterwards?

Fun fact: before 2001 the Taliban visited the US on regular diplomatic trips.

And yes, they are part of daily life there.
HellforLeather
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(09-15-2017, 10:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Hamburglar

Hilarious. Murderous oppressive regime turns socialist revolutionaries.

They're doing it backwards.
Coriolanus
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(09-15-2017, 10:40 PM)
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The US has known for quite a few years that there'll be no solution to afghanistan without the involvement of the Taliban. Is just that aint no politician wants to come out and admit it. Vice even did a video on how the US military is quite goddamn aware that they're gonna have to work with those people eventually.

I did find it ironic that the taliban was the one that tried to curbstomp the problem of bacha bazi in the region, while the US sadly opted to take the "not muh fucken prob" route. Cuz hey, its just children being raped, is all.

Originally Posted by Weckum

Fun fact: before 2001 the Taliban visited the US on regular diplomatic trips.

And yes, they are part of daily life there.

Another fun fact: the US has never formally labeled the afghani Taliban as a terrorist group.

The pakistani taliban, however, is a different story.
Last edited by Coriolanus; 09-15-2017 at 10:45 PM.
TheRealTalker
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(09-15-2017, 10:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by evil solrac v3.0

this actually seems like a legitimate problem that should be resolved.

thought the same too

people forget that the goverment itself is heavily corrupt
SomTervo
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(09-15-2017, 11:36 PM)
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It's interesting how potentially reasonable the land/ownership demands are vs the men/women demands.
Ogodei
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(09-15-2017, 11:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by SomTervo

It's interesting how potentially reasonable the land/ownership demands are vs the men/women demands.

They all seem reasonable, tbh. Banning women from the highest office would be bullshit, but reasonable if it succeeded in stopping the violence long enough for a peaceful society to grow, and eventually they could abolish those articles.

The question is if the Taliban wouldn't use it to simply join the government/military and then take it all over in a coup.

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