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The Ringer |OT| Formerly Known as Binge Mode

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A

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
diffusionx said:
Simmons is DEFINITELY a diva. At ESPN he got near total editorial freedom, an expensive vanity site, executive produced documentaries, and a very large paycheck. Every columnist in the country would kill to get what he had. And yet he complained constantly about how he didn't get "support." On ep 1 of his new pod he was complaining about how ESPN didn't let him run enough ads, kind of weird that he was so mad about not getting a chance to plug Me Undies and Squarespace. He also has a thin skin and lashes out at any criticism.

That said he's undeniably a very good boss. The people who worked for him want to do so, and even the guys who aren't coming back (Lowe, Browne, Morris) keep in touch.
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I guess it comes down to whether you think he's just an impetuous diva, or running into corporate dumb-dumbs constantly. Simmons does dumb stuff himself all the time, but given that it's ESPN we're talking about I'm more inclined to believe the latter. At Grantland I think his complaints about not getting any promotion from ESPN itself were certainly merited. Lowe and others are now splashed all over the front page all the time, but that definitely wasn't the case for Grantland. Simmons can do childish things, but it's hard for me to feel any empathy for the clowns running ESPN.

I think Simmons will continue to succeed though because he draws his fans wherever he goes, and couples that with actually hiring really talented people to compensate for his many blind spots and weaknesses (so it's not like a Rick Reilly situation). The one blind spot I wish he'd recognize though is that he's not very good on camera. :p
 
V

Vyer

Member
AstroLad said:
I guess it comes down to whether you think he's just an impetuous diva, or running into corporate dumb-dumbs constantly. Simmons does dumb stuff himself all the time, but given that it's ESPN we're talking about I'm more inclined to believe the latter. At Grantland I think his complaints about not getting any promotion from ESPN itself were certainly merited. Lowe and others are now splashed all over the front page all the time, but that definitely wasn't the case for Grantland. Simmons can do childish things, but it's hard for me to feel any empathy for the clowns running ESPN.

I think Simmons will continue to succeed though because he draws his fans wherever he goes, and couples that with actually hiring really talented people to compensate for his many blind spots and weaknesses (so it's not like a Rick Reilly situation). The one blind spot I wish he'd recognize though is that he's not very good on camera. :p
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Yeah, pretty much the way I read it too; I don't really buy the diva stuff either. I think probably he expects certain things and a certain amount of support when you are producing at a high level, and thinks it's absurd when that doesn't happen., and probably doesn't deal with those corporate blocks too well. Like when he was talking about having to fight for the 30 for 30 branding.
 
diffusionx

diffusionx

Gold Member
AstroLad said:
I guess it comes down to whether you think he's just an impetuous diva, or running into corporate dumb-dumbs constantly. Simmons does dumb stuff himself all the time, but given that it's ESPN we're talking about I'm more inclined to believe the latter. At Grantland I think his complaints about not getting any promotion from ESPN itself were certainly merited. Lowe and others are now splashed all over the front page all the time, but that definitely wasn't the case for Grantland. Simmons can do childish things, but it's hard for me to feel any empathy for the clowns running ESPN.

I think Simmons will continue to succeed though because he draws his fans wherever he goes, and couples that with actually hiring really talented people to compensate for his many blind spots and weaknesses (so it's not like a Rick Reilly situation). The one blind spot I wish he'd recognize though is that he's not very good on camera. :p
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I don't have empathy for ESPN. I just think they gave him 90% of what he wanted, and he complained that he didn't get 100%. That makes him a diva. I mean, look at this way. He is getting everything he wants now, and The Ringer looks a *lot* like Grantland, and his podcast network looks a *lot* like the Grantland Network.

Vyer said:
Yeah, pretty much the way I read it too; I don't really buy the diva stuff either. I think probably he expects certain things and a certain amount of support when you are producing at a high level, and thinks it's absurd when that doesn't happen., and probably doesn't deal with those corporate blocks too well. Like when he was talking about having to fight for the 30 for 30 branding.
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Right, but he won that fight. Yet he seems incredulous at the idea that he had to fight at all. Like other people shouldn't have a different viewpoint of things.
 
A

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
I think you have to look at the evolution over time rather than at a single point in time. Was Grantland when it launched '90%' of what Simmons wanted? I guess? I have no idea haha, but he did sign up for it so maybe we can use that as a proxy. :p We'll have to wait for the inevitable tell-all, but based on what we've heard it looks like one of the real issues was that ESPN pulled a bait and switch and didn't promote Grantland on their main properties like they said they would (which is kind of the whole point of being there and dealing with all the BS) and then started to tighten the screws when pageviews weren't up to expectations. So the site was clearly going to flounder at least according to ESPN's expectations. Without ESPN giving it real support it was never going to get the blockbuster views that apparently ESPN was expecting. Based on multiple different reports, it does look like a lot of the burying of Grantland was basically that vibe from Bristol of fuck Bill he already got his site we're not doing anything else for him. Which imo is incredibly shortsighted especially given the quality Grantland was putting out. Subsequent events have shown that ESPN is a total cluster in a way that goes far beyond the whole Grantland situation though.
 
C

Curufinwe

Member
diffusionx said:
Simmons is DEFINITELY a diva. At ESPN he got near total editorial freedom, an expensive vanity site, executive produced documentaries, and a very large paycheck. Every columnist in the country would kill to get what he had. And yet he complained constantly about how he didn't get "support." On ep 1 of his new pod he was complaining about how ESPN didn't let him run enough ads, kind of weird that he was so mad about not getting a chance to plug Me Undies and Squarespace. He also has a thin skin and lashes out at any criticism.
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Maybe he'd be appreciated more if he faked his own death, lol.

I've loved a lot of his work over the past 15 years but Simmons has close to zero self awareness. Nothing is ever his fault.
 
V

Vault Dweller 111

Member
Yea Simmons definitely isnt humble. He knows how good he is, and he wants to be compensated like it. I'd put more blame on ESPN, but Simmons really isn't a good match with them. He has no intention of being controlled.

I think everything worked out for the best.
 
B

bionic77

Member
AstroLad said:
I guess it comes down to whether you think he's just an impetuous diva, or running into corporate dumb-dumbs constantly. Simmons does dumb stuff himself all the time, but given that it's ESPN we're talking about I'm more inclined to believe the latter. At Grantland I think his complaints about not getting any promotion from ESPN itself were certainly merited. Lowe and others are now splashed all over the front page all the time, but that definitely wasn't the case for Grantland. Simmons can do childish things, but it's hard for me to feel any empathy for the clowns running ESPN.

I think Simmons will continue to succeed though because he draws his fans wherever he goes, and couples that with actually hiring really talented people to compensate for his many blind spots and weaknesses (so it's not like a Rick Reilly situation). The one blind spot I wish he'd recognize though is that he's not very good on camera. :p
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That is the truth. He can't control his facial expressions at all on tv. He needs a long format to be funny and make a point. You get like 30 seconds on tv. His stuff sounds and looks horrible in that format. He is not likeable on tv and he is not a soundbite guy. He knows how to make great tv though but he sucks in front of the camera.

I will say that I don't like the commercial breaks on the pod. ESPN was definitely right about that. Of course now Bill needs to earn a living so I understand why he does it but they are a little annoying and I always try to skip them.
 
V

Vyer

Member
diffusionx said:
I don't have empathy for ESPN. I just think they gave him 90% of what he wanted, and he complained that he didn't get 100%. That makes him a diva. I mean, look at this way. He is getting everything he wants now, and The Ringer looks a *lot* like Grantland, and his podcast network looks a *lot* like the Grantland Network.



Right, but he won that fight. Yet he seems incredulous at the idea that he had to fight at all. Like other people shouldn't have a different viewpoint of things.
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He should be incredulous. I think it's justified when faced with a ridiculous notion that throws away whatever you worked hard to build.
 
A

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
bionic77 said:
I will say that I don't like the commercial breaks on the pod. ESPN was definitely right about that. Of course now Bill needs to earn a living so I understand why he does it but they are a little annoying and I always try to skip them.
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Yeah I can't hate too much because you gotta make a buck however you can. But they are getting crazy long to where some pods don't really start until 2-3 minutes in. Thankfully Pocket Casts has customizable skip buttons and I have my FF at 30 seconds, which is about right though I may crank it up to 40. I would totally pay to have an ad-free pod and maybe some other little perks, but I know that's not viable because people are cheap af.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
That Tyler Summitt segment.....

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This never would've run on ESPN.
 
C

CastleRybread

Member
AstroLad said:
I guess it comes down to whether you think he's just an impetuous diva, or running into corporate dumb-dumbs constantly. Simmons does dumb stuff himself all the time, but given that it's ESPN we're talking about I'm more inclined to believe the latter. At Grantland I think his complaints about not getting any promotion from ESPN itself were certainly merited. Lowe and others are now splashed all over the front page all the time, but that definitely wasn't the case for Grantland. Simmons can do childish things, but it's hard for me to feel any empathy for the clowns running ESPN.

I think Simmons will continue to succeed though because he draws his fans wherever he goes, and couples that with actually hiring really talented people to compensate for his many blind spots and weaknesses (so it's not like a Rick Reilly situation). The one blind spot I wish he'd recognize though is that he's not very good on camera. :p
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KO made a great point. They thought spending 125 million on a sportscenter set was the key to bigger ratings.

Look at what that set cost them. If cost them anyone who was a named talent and a bunch of talented people behind the scene. It also killed the ESPN family vibe.
 
A

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Koko said:
Am I going crazy or did House sound completely different during episode 89?
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He sounded really clear I did notice that. Usually he sounds like he's calling in from a payphone. Might be that they set him up with his own equipment now that he has his own pod.
 
K

Koko

Banned
AstroLad said:
He sounded really clear I did notice that. Usually he sounds like he's calling in from a payphone. Might be that they set him up with his own equipment now that he has his own pod.
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infiniteloop said:
Sounded like he was using a proper mic, usually he calls in over the phone. Did sound weird due to the clarity.
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Oh yeah that makes sense. I'm just so used to his phone-voice that it caught me off guard.
 
A

akileese

Member
Vault Dweller 111 said:
Yea Simmons definitely isnt humble. He knows how good he is, and he wants to be compensated like it. I'd put more blame on ESPN, but Simmons really isn't a good match with them. He has no intention of being controlled.

I think everything worked out for the best.
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I agree. They were never going to pay him his worth and he was never going to be happy working for people who didn't fully back him. Now he gets to do his own thing and get other people exposure in the process.
 
J

Junior Asparagus

Member
diffusionx said:
On ep 1 of his new pod he was complaining about how ESPN didn't let him run enough ads, kind of weird that he was so mad about not getting a chance to plug Me Undies and Squarespace.
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To be fair, I think the argument was that one of the reasons ESPN felt it was ok to shut down Grantland was because it wasn't making any money for them, and Bill's argument was that they could have made some money off of it if they wanted to.

Agree with Keeping it 1600 and Jam Session. Love both of them, although I'm sure some people get annoyed with how Litman and Dobbins talk.
 
C

Curufinwe

Member
Listening to Simmons slobber all over the LA Kings is hilarious.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/020227

Honestly, I just can't understand it. You cannot root for two teams at the same time. You cannot hedge your bets. You cannot unconditionally love two teams at the same time, when there's a remote chance that they might go head-to-head some day.

(There's nothing worse than a Bandwagon Jumper. If sports were a prison and sports fans made up all the prisoners, the Bandwagon Jumpers would be like the child molesters -- everyone else would pick on them, take turns beating them up and force them to toss more salads than Emeril Lagasse.)
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C

Crazymoogle

Member
Curufinwe said:
Listening to Simmons slobber all over the LA Kings is hilarious.
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Bandwagon ethics are great and all until you find yourself living long term in another team's city and have to raise kids who will unflinchingly become fans of that team. If the team is bad you can ignore it, but if the team is good, it just filters into your daily consciousness. I've pretty much accepted my son will become a Habs fan one day, for example...

I don't pay too much mind to what Simmons says about the NHL because I get the impression he is self-aware that he is pretty much out of his depth talking about it. He can talk as a fan, but anything about trades or team construction goes way over his head. (When Joe House was talking about his concern about the Caps, Bill was talking as if he had never even considered the idea of putting any of the 32 NHL teams on the sorrow index.) It's fine, really - I think he's just fine focusing on football and basketball as always.
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
Hasphat'sAnts said:
I'll pass on draymond. dude's my least favorite nba player by a fairly wide margin.
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I pass on every interview with players/coaches. I even passed on Lowe's Sam Hinke interview (though I went back after the fact). It's just rare people in those positions say anything of value. I love watching Draymond play but I really don't care what he has to say.

Tony Kornheiser has had a long-standing rule that he doesn't want players on his radio show. I totally agree with him.
 
A

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Gigglepoo said:
I pass on every interview with players/coaches. I even passed on Lowe's Sam Hinke interview (though I went back after the fact). It's just rare people in those positions say anything of value. I love watching Draymond play but I really don't care what he has to say.

Tony Kornheiser has had a long-standing rule that he doesn't want players on his radio show. I totally agree with him.
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You guys made the right call on this one. It's not even that Draymond was super-generic or anything -- he's more open about discussing things than most players (e.g., I totally respect him saying he likes chasing records whereas the 99.9% athlete default position on the topic is "what record? records are stupid. championship good. reporters stupid for question"). Buuuuuuut he had a terrible connection and honestly seemed to only be half-listening to the questions.
 
V

Vault Dweller 111

Member
Gigglepoo said:
I pass on every interview with players/coaches. I even passed on Lowe's Sam Hinke interview (though I went back after the fact). It's just rare people in those positions say anything of value. I love watching Draymond play but I really don't care what he has to say.

Tony Kornheiser has had a long-standing rule that he doesn't want players on his radio show. I totally agree with him.
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100% this

Athletes are the absolute worst interviews 99% of the time.
 
G

gazele

Banned
Gigglepoo said:
I pass on every interview with players/coaches. I even passed on Lowe's Sam Hinke interview (though I went back after the fact). It's just rare people in those positions say anything of value. I love watching Draymond play but I really don't care what he has to say.

Tony Kornheiser has had a long-standing rule that he doesn't want players on his radio show. I totally agree with him.
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Knowing that Hinke resigned the next day makes the Lowe podcast fascinating

But in general I agree with you

It makes sense to be nice to a guest, don't want to burn bridges and its probably very hard to be critical to someone's face
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Gigglepoo said:
I pass on every interview with players/coaches. I even passed on Lowe's Sam Hinke interview (though I went back after the fact). It's just rare people in those positions say anything of value. I love watching Draymond play but I really don't care what he has to say.

Tony Kornheiser has had a long-standing rule that he doesn't want players on his radio show. I totally agree with him.
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JJ Redick was very good when he was on Zach's podcast.

It's The veteran players who don't give a shit that are the best guests. Dirk for instance.
 
L

Lunar FC

Member
Kwhit10 said:
I actually thought House was visiting Bill and was in the same room given how clear he sounded.
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Glad others thought that It sounded like a totally different person. I thought it was like a goof or something, he seemed like out of it or something.

Edit: Ugh, I can't stand Haralabos Voulgaris..
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
It's true - I'm co-hosting Mike Francesa's show with him for an entire day next month. 5 hours of yuuuge yuuuuge entertainment. -- @billsimmons

Pretty cool. I hope he isn't scaling back in his podcasts. Kind of seems like the case the past few weeks...
 
C

Crazymoogle

Member
Gigglepoo said:
Pretty cool. I hope he isn't scaling back in his podcasts. Kind of seems like the case the past few weeks...
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- Well, he is in deep financially on The Ringer + his HBO deal
- Channel 33 has a ton of backup podcasts
- It's too early in the baseball season and he can't get more than one pod every two weeks out of JackO's trump/Yanks panic rating

I fully expect things to pick up next week once we inch closer to the second round of the NBA playoffs and the NFL draft looms.
 
G

gazele

Banned
Is it wrong that I love listening to Simmons but always root against boston teams partially to hear Simmons' response?
 
A

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
gazele said:
Is it wrong that I love listening to Simmons but always root against boston teams partially to hear Simmons' response?
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nope i do the exact same thing. :D easy to cheer against boston teams now anyway with all their championships. too bad simmons got an out explaining celts losing in the first round with the injury -- looks like he's basically checked out on celts now anyway and all-in on the kings (love how he pretends he's not a fan despite his extensive homerism for them)
 
C

Crazymoogle

Member
AstroLad said:
nope i do the exact same thing. :D easy to cheer against boston teams now anyway with all their championships. too bad simmons got an out explaining celts losing in the first round with the injury -- looks like he's basically checked out on celts now anyway and all-in on the kings (love how he pretends he's not a fan despite his extensive homerism for them)
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If Avery Bradley and Kelly Olynyk is enough to use the injury card...damn. That's true homerism right there. :jnc
 
A

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
@BillSimmons
It's been a weird spring with Round One of the NBA Playoffs having tragically passed away, but it's made me love playoff hockey even more.
 
A

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Ninja Scooter said:
I don't know why but I hate when he does pods with celebrities and almost never finish them. I'd rather just get an NBA playoff podcast.
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I actually generally dislike his podcasts with comics because he's such an ass-kisser of them. Like even Jeff Ross, who's a poor-man's Andrew Dice Clay you'd think he was the Dalai Lama the way Simmons talked to him.
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
Mark me as another one that generally skips the athlete/celebrity podcasts. Ass-kiss central plus he's just not as engaging in those ones.

Overall, the podcasts have been a little weaker than I was expecting. Not having access to the ESPN slate of reporters and analysts has really hurt them. Can't even get classics like half-baked ideas with Wildes.
 
M

mnannola

Member
The vertical podcast run by JJ Reddick is an awesome podcast that has a lot of player interviews. I think because he is still a player, other current players open up to him a little more and they end up talking about some pretty interesting stuff.

I do agree that when Lowe/Simmons has players on it can be hit or miss, mostly misses.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
It's because the vast majority of athletes/stars aren't interesting.

Bogut was good. Duchovny was stellar. Comes down to who it is he's talking to.
 
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