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Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
(08-29-2017, 06:59 PM)
Don't unban copter, you really don't want RDW to play copter.

Originally Posted by Firemind

I literally never heard of that card before.

and you likely won't hear of it ever again.
DrArchon
Member
(08-29-2017, 06:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ozigizo

Red's artifact removal at the time was 4 cmc and 5 cmc. It was awful.

You'd think they'd have known better, seeing as they were in the process of printing a fucking artifact block, but for some reason WotC's collect brains seem to dribble out of their ears every time they do that.
Ozigizo
Banned
(08-29-2017, 07:03 PM)

Originally Posted by DrArchon

You'd think they'd have known better, seeing as they were in the process of printing a fucking artifact block, but for some reason WotC's collect brains seem to dribble out of their ears every time they do that.

I assume the thinking was "we don't want to hose our set within the set," which is stupid. The other thing that made copter so amazing is the utter lack of graveyard hate, meaning anything you looted was still relevant in regards to delerium.
DrArchon
Member
(08-29-2017, 07:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ozigizo

I assume the thinking was "we don't want to hose our set within the set," which is stupid. The other thing that made copter so amazing is the utter lack of graveyard hate, meaning anything you looted was still relevant in regards to delerium.

It sure as hell is stupid because I remember plenty of decent to good artifact hate cards in original Mirrodin and that still managed to be busted as all hell.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
(08-29-2017, 07:14 PM)
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Do you think Arcane Adaptation is going to be like $4-5+ for its Standard career?
Santiako
Member
(08-29-2017, 07:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by shrapnelmagnet

Do you think Arcane Adaptation is going to be like $4-5+ for its Standard career?

No, it's most likely going to be a bulk rare.
Justin
Member
(08-29-2017, 07:17 PM)

Originally Posted by shrapnelmagnet

Do you think Arcane Adaptation is going to be like $4-5+ for its Standard career?

Could be. It doesnt take much to make it good.

Arcane Adaptation naming horse + Crested Sunmare makes all your creatures indestructible.
duxstar
Member
(08-29-2017, 07:18 PM)
Free da copter , its fine now =) this is a sad rotation for me, the great white planeswalker will be leaving us shortly. Gideon youll be missed bro , youve been a friend, an ally for all =)

And i lose avacyn too =( sad times
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
(08-29-2017, 07:21 PM)
Copter isn't fine there was removal for copter at the time, people played a bunch of natural state and whatever crappy artfiact removal they could find and it still ended up being a 4-of in next to every deck that goes mildly agressive. It would do the same again, yes artifact removal got better but copter is just as powerful as before.
Santiako
Member
(08-29-2017, 07:23 PM)
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Copter is nowhere near fine. Card would be a 4x in every viable deck again, even with abrade and such in the format.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
(08-29-2017, 07:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by duxstar

Free da copter , its fine now =) this is a sad rotation for me, the great white planeswalker will be leaving us shortly. Gideon youll be missed bro , youve been a friend, an ally for all =)

And i lose avacyn too =( sad times

Printing overpowered 4 and 5 drops at white is kind of a WOTC staple so I wouldn't worry about it. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar was bullshit anyways.
OnPoint
Member
(08-29-2017, 07:32 PM)
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Bringing Copter back would be almost as big a mistake as printing it into a removal-less format in the first place. It's just too efficient at what it does.
duxstar
Member
(08-29-2017, 07:33 PM)
Lol you all missed the smiley face on copter =) its just great in the type of decks i like to play.

I am interested in a mini hatenears style deck, we have a 2 drop that stops enter the battlefield triggers and a 3 drop authority of the councils on a stick.

I have no hope of naya dinosaur ever becoming standard playable.

Generally id love a super aggressive g/w deck to be possible, my favorite deck of all time was g/w aggro. Soldier of the pantheon into fleecemane lion into loxodon smiter into advent of the wurm/ajani caller of the pride to finish.

Ill settle for midrangy gw tokens style too =)
Imperfected
Member
(08-29-2017, 07:33 PM)
Let's unban Marvel too, it should be fine now that Emrakul and Ulamog will both be gone!

Let's not unban any of this mess. God, I wish we could just rotate Kaladesh block instead of Innistrad 2.0.
OnPoint
Member
(08-29-2017, 07:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by duxstar

Lol you all missed the smiley face on copter =) its just great in the type of decks i like to play.

You can't say stuff like that in here and not expect a debate to break out on it, joking or not, we debate the literal dumbest stuff sometimes haha
y2dvd
Member
(08-29-2017, 07:50 PM)
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Would Smugglers Copter really be that bad with Abrade and Fatal Push in the format?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
(08-29-2017, 07:58 PM)
Smuggler's Copter is a good modern card if that answers your question.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
(08-29-2017, 08:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by OnPoint

You can't say stuff like that in here and not expect a debate to break out on it, joking or not, we debate the literal dumbest stuff sometimes haha

Yo I'm pretty sure Urza is green
OnPoint
Member
(08-29-2017, 08:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by FreedomFrisbee

Yo I'm pretty sure Urza is green

This thread is now tainted haha
aidan
Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
(08-29-2017, 08:05 PM)
Urza is not green =)
bigkrev
Member
(08-29-2017, 08:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by y2dvd

Would Smugglers Copter really be that bad with Abrade and Fatal Push in the format?

I would put it, if it was never printed untill Hour of Devastation, on the power level of Collected Company. A card that lasted it's entire life in standard, but I'm pretty sure Sam Stoddard said that they would have banned under their current approach to bannings
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
(08-29-2017, 08:08 PM)
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did someone say urza

OnPoint
Member
(08-29-2017, 08:13 PM)
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Needs that famous flavor text

"It's not easy being green."
- Urza, Planeswalker

Joe Molotov
(08-29-2017, 08:14 PM)
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MTG Cardsmith putting WOTC to shame yet again.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
(08-29-2017, 08:21 PM)
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I have a good feeling about Ixalan limited. The big guys in this set cost a lot because they're apparently expecting treasure to power them out in limited. It might mean the dinos are bad for constructed, but it is what it is. I just notice that all the lower CMC guys seem underpowered for their size unless you build around them and the dinos are all like 7 CMC. They must be going for Treasure - Battlecruiser or something.
Farside
Member
(08-29-2017, 08:22 PM)

Originally Posted by The Technomancer

It is ruthlessly efficient. Basically every top deck was playing four copies

Originally Posted by bigkrev

When copter was printed, there was no constructed-playable card that could kill an artifact, and only Harnessed Lightning as a constructed-playable kill spell for it.

Thanks.



Also, is the Commander 2017 a limited run thing. I just tried to prepay the second store shipment at my local store and they said no more a getting shipped.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
(08-29-2017, 08:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Farside

Thanks.



Also, is the Commander 2017 a limited run thing. I just tried to prepay the second store shipment at my local store and they said no more a getting shipped.

Yes and no. They're limited in the sense that they just print a bunch of them once and that's it. They're not a "limited" product in that it's nothing like a Masters product where supply is intentionally scarce. They try to print them to demand, they just don't sit around waiting to print more if that turns out to be not enough. The caveat there is that one of the decks will always be far more desirable than the others, which makes it appear as though the product is actually super limited when that isn't the intent. They just don't print way more Atraxa decks than the others.
Farside
Member
(08-29-2017, 08:26 PM)

Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

Yes and no. They're limited in the sense that they just print a bunch of them once and that's it.

Ah, so buy if you can. Also, could you explain the Masters thing, as there's a new one coming up, right?
Justin
Member
(08-29-2017, 08:33 PM)

Originally Posted by Farside

Ah, so buy if you can. Also, could you explain the Masters thing, as there's a new one coming up, right?

Iconic Masters is coming out in November and Masters 25 in march. They are sets of reprints for people who play the modern format. They are black bordered but can't be played in standard. The packs are also expensive at 9.99 a piece.
Farside
Member
(08-29-2017, 08:36 PM)

Originally Posted by Justin

Iconic Masters is coming out in November and Masters 25 in march. They are sets of reprints for people who play the modern format. They are black bordered but can't be played in standard. The packs are also expensive at 9.99 a piece.

Thanks!
Simply Sarah
Member
(08-29-2017, 08:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Justin

Iconic Masters is coming out in November and Masters 25 in march. They are sets of reprints for people who play the modern format. They are black bordered but can't be played in standard. The packs are also expensive at 9.99 a piece.

Wait, have they said all the cards in them will be Modern legal? I had sort of assumed they'd be closer to Eternal Masters in that some cards would pre-Modern cards.
OnPoint
Member
(08-29-2017, 08:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Justin

Iconic Masters is coming out in November and Masters 25 in march. They are sets of reprints for people who play the modern format. They are black bordered but can't be played in standard. The packs are also expensive at 9.99 a piece.

Just to clarify: Modern Masters is for Modern. Eternal Masters has cards that stretch into formats that go back farther than Legacy, like Vintage, Legacy and Pauper. No one knows what Iconic Masters will house just yet, but I'd be shocked if it were Modern-specific as a focus.
HK-47
Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
(08-29-2017, 08:44 PM)
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Interesting that we got the new block format and yet I think that except for Aether Revolt all the two set formats are superior to the single set ones
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
(08-29-2017, 08:56 PM)

Originally Posted by HK-47

Interesting that we got the new block format and yet I think that except for Aether Revolt all the two set formats are superior to the single set ones

but does drafting the 3rd pack from the previous set improve that format more than fleshing out the small set more?
StrategyFan
Member
(08-29-2017, 09:37 PM)

Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

I have a good feeling about Ixalan limited. The big guys in this set cost a lot because they're apparently expecting treasure to power them out in limited. It might mean the dinos are bad for constructed, but it is what it is. I just notice that all the lower CMC guys seem underpowered for their size unless you build around them and the dinos are all like 7 CMC. They must be going for Treasure - Battlecruiser or something.

the mechanics don't lend themselves to a well-balanced format

i'm not saying it won't be fun, but i wouldn't be surprised if a lot more games were decided by the die roll

when too much of the value comes from attacking (eg. raid) and non-etb abilities (eg. making treasure), it becomes difficult for the player on the draw to do anything

enrage might also be a problem if they put it on aggressive troops instead of defensive ones

if treasure/explore is everywhere, then there might not even be a mana consistency advantage for the person going 2nd

exert from the last block had this problem too (although it got a little better in hour of devastation)

Originally Posted by Familienoberhauptvogel

but does drafting the 3rd pack from the previous set improve that format more than fleshing out the small set more?

it can fix some formats where some colors are better in the big set and others are better in the small set
aidan
Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
(08-29-2017, 09:44 PM)
Old-Growth Dryads into Heart of Kiran seems good:



into



Enough to offset the downside of ramping your opponent?
G.ZZZ
Member
(08-29-2017, 09:44 PM)
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Honor-Worn Shaku seems much better and possibly playable with the new walkers compared to Untaidake. A 3 mana rock that tap for 2 or even 3 sometimes is better than a pseudo tomb that can cast only 10 spells in your deck and come into play tapped. The floor on Honor-Worn Shaku is much higher, and the ceiling is higher as well.

Buy as many as you can.
Santiako
Member
(08-29-2017, 09:45 PM)
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Bomb uncommon ahoy:



Deathless Ancient 4BB
Creature Vampire Knight (Uncommon)
Flying
Tap three untapped Vampires you control: Return Deathless Ancient from your graveyard to your hand.
4/4
sgjackson
Member
(08-29-2017, 09:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Justin

I love the art on this pirate. There is so much going on. I cant wait to see a high def version

I got you fam (image links to tweet by artist with larger pic)

Justin
Member
(08-29-2017, 09:55 PM)

Originally Posted by sgjackson

I got you fam (image links to tweet by artist with larger pic)

Love it! And its the Artist's Mom. He turned his mom into a bad ass pirate crashing through the side of a ship. How can you not like that!?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
(08-29-2017, 09:59 PM)
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Oh are all pirate captains women on Ixalan? That's cool
aidan
Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
(08-29-2017, 10:01 PM)

Originally Posted by The Technomancer

Oh are all pirate captains women on Ixalan? That's cool

WotC is certainly a leader when it comes to representation. I'm hoping we'll see less imperial/colonial characters and more native Ixalans in the next set, though.
bigkrev
Member
(08-29-2017, 10:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Santiako

Some pirates:


Deadeye Pillagers 3UB
Creature - Human Pirate
Deadeye Pillagers gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control
2UB: Create a colorless artifact token named Treasure with "tap, sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool"
3/3

Originally Posted by Santiako

5GW
Creature - Dinasour (Uncommon)
Each creature you controll assigns combat damage equal to its toughness rather than its power.
4/6

Originally Posted by Santiako

Bomb uncommon ahoy:



Deathless Ancient 4BB
Creature Vampire Knight (Uncommon)
Flying
Tap three untapped Vampires you control: Return Deathless Ancient from your graveyard to your hand.
4/4

These cards all seem more like Rares than uncommons
phazedplasma
Member
(08-29-2017, 10:08 PM)
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Art is on point in this set
Takuan
Member
(08-29-2017, 10:25 PM)
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I fux with this HARD BODY.

Really happy to see Vraska back in action, too - as a fuckin' pirate, no less! I'm all over this, thematically.
blindrocket
Member
(08-29-2017, 10:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by phazedplasma

Art is on point in this set

It definitely is.


My LGS is sold out of Dragonlord Dromoka. I suppose now I need to trade for it.

Luckily for me though, they had their Bloodline Keepers priced at $3
Tunoku
Member
(08-29-2017, 10:33 PM)
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Pretty much locked in my list for the GP:

4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Longtusk Cub
4 Rogue Refiner
4 Whirler Virtuoso
3 Bristling Hydra
2 Glorybringer
2 Scarab God

2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship

4 Attune with Aether
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Magma Spray
2 Abrade

4 Aether Hub
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Sheltered Thicket
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Game Trail
1 Lumbering Falls
3 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Island
1 Swamp

//Sideboard

2 Tireless Tracker
4 Negate
1 Abrade
2 Radiant Flames
2 Confiscation Coup
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Aethersphere Harvester
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship

I've been casting Rogue Refiners since October 2016 and I just can't unsleeve them.
SigmasonicX
Member
(08-29-2017, 10:45 PM)
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Given all that happened yesterday, I don't think we spent enough time talking about State of Design 2017.
* Surprised to see that fabricate was popular enough to be listed as a successful mechanic.
* I've brought up before that I'm fine with energy because most cards work well enough on their own, but the article brings up the issue that no matter what, they get better with other energy cards, which still causes parasitism.
* MaRo's claim that vehicles worked best with other vehicles doesn't seem right, given that even Mardu Vehicles ended up only using one vehicle type.
* Completely agreed about revolt. The effect was too disconnected from the flavor, especially given that it wasn't in red at all. Plus, it just seemed like a weird mechanic to center a set on.
* Interesting that the lack of synergy between mechanics was a deliberate choice for Amonkhet.
* I agree that cycling was an odd fit, given that only one card actually helped with the other graveyard mechanics--that bird with cycling and embalm.
* Afflict was weird, in that it didn't really feel like it said anything about the creature, and it often didn't feel like it really mattered.
Farside
Member
(08-29-2017, 11:25 PM)
I love those State of Design posts, even though I wasn't playing for any of the releases.
aidan
Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
(08-29-2017, 11:40 PM)

Originally Posted by SigmasonicX

* Completely agreed about revolt. The effect was too disconnected from the flavor, especially given that it wasn't in red at all. Plus, it just seemed like a weird mechanic to center a set on.

Strictly for the purposes of reprints, I'm disappointed that Fatal Push was printed with Revolt, rather than being templated like Life Goes On. Even reprinting it in a Core or Masters set means that they'll have to revisit Revolt, which they're unlikely to do.

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