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DF Retro: Metal Gear Solid 2 - A Kojima Masterpiece

SkylineRKR

SkylineRKR

Member
GrantDaNasty said:
I remember having trouble doing the hold-ups, especially in the VR missions on the PS3 version of the HD collection, so I did some reading up on it.

Apparently you need to push/hold down on left analog-stick when pulling up a gun that isn't semi-auto.



No you absolutely can choke people out in MGS2. I believe it is 7 or 8 taps and if you go over, you snap their neck. It's essential for non-lethal runs and in VR missions. and you can use melee or throwing to knock enemies out, but it's time-consuming and not as reliable so I don't utilize it.
Click to expand...

It worked the same as in MGS1 which was sort of half baked to me. I think they don't lie down for too long as well. I always had one instance where I would let loose and trigger an alert, or go overboard and kill. It was clunky at best.
 
J

JP

Member
Wonderful videos, thank you.

Looking back, it;s difficult to explain how it felt to watch that trailer for the first time, what was perhaps more impressive was that the game more than matched up to the expectations created by the trailer for me.

I don't suppose there's really any chance that we'll get a full anthology with all the Metal Gear games with the way Konami is now. Or if we do, it probably won't be a good quality one. It is the 30th anniversary of Metal Gear this year and the 20th anniversary of Metal Gear Solid next year so it would be really nice to get a proper anniversary collection that encompassed all the games.

I can't explain how optimistic I am for Death Stranding now that Kojima Productions have been freed from Konami. I've absolutely loved the Metal Gear games but I'm far more interested in a new Kojima Productions game that I ever could be for a new Metal Gear game developed by somebody else.
 
P

Paz

Member
I'm not gonna lie, that MGS2 trailer holds a special place in my heart. When I first watched it I got the impression that anything was possible with games, it was so slick and so intriguing.

Chills just seeing bits of it in this wonderful video. Probably my favorite DF Retro even over the Shenmue eps.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
MGS2's plot gives me some 'Banshee's Last Cry' vibes with how its plot goes on about. Like as you keep progressing things just get weirder and weirder and the game's plot becomes more like Kojima touching up on themes rather than telling a story of some kind.
In the case of BLC, like the SNES game for example, the plot changed based on the choices you make and some paths go into really weird directions compared to the other endings.
 
M

MikeE21286

Member
Great game. Maybe even slightly better trailer, as far as trailers go. What an unbelievable moment seeing that trailer for the first time was.
 
K

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
Neper said:
I'll comment here something that I also posted on their video.

Why does press keep doing things like "A Kojima Masterpiece"? Did Hideo Kojima single-handedly develop the entire game and all its assets? I'm quite sure he didn't. Then, why on Earth don't we stop treating the directors like all-powerful gods and start crediting video game development as a collective achievement?
Click to expand...

It is pure marketing. Plus a bit of hero worship (which is dangerous as well, as we saw with the Konami/Kojima shit). We get attached to "names" that stay around for awhile and put them on a pedestal to praise or tear down. Sad thing is, those names, especially those who stay at some place for a long time, have key people with them the entire time you never hear of. Names who play critical parts of their games and keep these people in check who never get the credit.

It starts to get lame when those names can do no wrong and become untouchable.
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
I still can't believe Konami hasn't ported the Legacy collection to PC/PS4/XBO and we are this far into the lifestyle. Konami does seem to be pulling back from the industry to a degree, but they are still a publicly traded company and Remastered releases generate high margin profits.

MGS4 might pose some issues with Sony copyrights in game, I'm not sure how deep the ownership goes with that property.
 
R

rjc571

Banned
MGS2's visuals hold up so insanely well. It's almost as big of a leap over the DC as DC graphics were over the N64.

Anyway, more videos from PS2/GC generation please!
 
P

Paz

Member
Kintaro said:
It is pure marketing. Plus a bit of hero worship (which is dangerous as well, as we saw with the Konami/Kojima shit). We get attached to "names" that stay around for awhile and put them on a pedestal to praise or tear down. Sad thing is, those names, especially those who stay at some place for a long time, have key people with them the entire time you never hear of. Names who play critical parts of their games and keep these people in check who never get the credit.

It starts to get lame when those names can do no wrong and become untouchable.
Click to expand...

Eh in most cases I'd agree, but having known a few people who worked at KojiPro they've made it very clear that Kojima is one of the industries few legitimate big team auteurs, in the same way well known film directors are often correctly attributed for the work of huge crews.

Yes all these people still rely on others who perform critical roles, but it's not _always_ wrong to attribute them as the main creative driving force. Just most of the time in games.
 
butman

butman

Member
Whatever people say, for me MGS2 is the epitome of the saga, just as OoT is for the Zelda games.
MGSV and BOTW are good and innovative, but only share the name and characters of their franchises.
 
W

warheat

Member
I'm pretty sure in the original PS2 version, it ran on 30fps on outdoor Big Shell area, not sure about Tanker though. Didn't notice John mention this in the video.
 
N

N7.Angel

Member
The best MGS game for sure, my favorite, my king, he never achieved something as good as this one even if MGSV come close, if only Konami let Kojima finished it...+

Xliskin said:
People need 15 years to understand how MGSV is masterpiece the way MGS2 was
Click to expand...

Can take even longer, it's Marvel/FF/Transformers generation we're talking about.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
warheat said:
I'm pretty sure in the original PS2 version, it ran on 30fps on outdoor Big Shell area, not sure about Tanker though. Didn't notice John mention this in the video.
Click to expand...
It most certainly does not. It's always 60fps.

Some areas can exhibit a little bit of tearing and the Fortune fight drops pretty hard but it's 60fps 98% of the time.
 
W

warheat

Member
dark10x said:
It most certainly does not. It's always 60fps.

Some areas can exhibit a little bit of tearing and the Fortune fight drops pretty hard but it's 60fps 98% of the time.
Click to expand...

Found this article written by Richard, but I'm not sure if he's referring to the PS2 version.

lEb8PUP.png


source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-watch-mgs5-at-60fps
 
W

warheat

Member
That reflection trick is pretty insane though, never thought about that. I'm wondering how many games use the same technique to achieve the illusion of reflection because modern games reflection is always resulted in huge performance hit.
 
W

warheat

Member
Luigiv said:
I imagine Richard would have wrote that paragraph from memory and got the performance of the Vita version muddled with the original. I'd trust John has a better idea of what he's talking about, given he replayed the game in the lead up to this video.
Click to expand...

I've played MGS2 for like 5-6 times and I always notice that the Big Shell outdoor area not as smooth as the indoor, but I would love some clarification whether it's 30fps or just a huge performance hit.
 
L

Luigiv

Member
warheat said:
That reflection trick is pretty insane though, never thought about that. I'm wondering how many games use the same technique to achieve the illusion of reflection because modern games reflection is always resulted in huge performance hit.
Click to expand...
Hundreds of games I'd wager. The technique was super common back in the early days of 3D. I don't think it's is quite as common these days as cheaper techniques such as cubemaps and screem space reflection can be used in a lot of instances but that trick (or other similar ones based on multiple viewports) still have their uses.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
warheat said:
I've played MGS2 for like 5-6 times and I always notice that the Big Shell outdoor area not as smooth as the indoor, but I would love some clarification whether it's 30fps or just a huge performance hit.
Click to expand...
Vita is 30fps outdoors, not ps2. There are some areas with a little extra tearing but it's definitely not ever 30fps on ps2.

Luigiv said:
Hundreds of games I'd wager. The technique was super common back in the early days of 3D. I don't think it's is quite as common these days as cheaper techniques such as cubemaps and screem space reflection can be used in a lot of instances but that trick (or other similar ones based on multiple viewports) still have their uses.
Click to expand...
Exactly. It used to be the norm but I suspect a lot of folks have completely forgotten about it. There no reason to do it now and it would be a lot more expensive in a modern game scene.

LordOfLore said:
Can we get John in a room with the Guerrilla and KojiPro tech teams?
Click to expand...
Spent the day with Guerilla tech guys - hoping to produce something cool on that soon.
 
RAIDEN1

RAIDEN1

Member
This game was what MGS5 should have been, but wasn't..MORE immersive...the kick-ass soundtrack an actual plot...even if it was confusing...more tight-knit gameplay...the lot...
 
A

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Goddamn I love this game so much. I have a huge backlog, but I just want to play it again.
 
S

Space_nut

Member
I played mgs1 back in the ps1 days. One of my all time favorites. For me it's 1>= 3 > 2 >>>>>4. Haven't played 5 yet how is it?

Salz01 said:
3>1>4>2>..........any splinter cell game >5
Click to expand...

Heck nah splinter cell 1 - 3 were something else. Those were actually realistic hardcore stealth. Mgs weren't as hard for me. Choas Theory is the best stealth game ever till this day period
 
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