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George Lucas still offers the Star Wars films suggestions on the Jedi

LastNac

Member
Never said the movie was bad, nor is that the argument at hand.

But resulting to this weird need to rush in and protect its ears from any kind of criticism seems weird, oddly paternalistic, and exudes the worst kind of fan boy behavior.

Receiving the criticism "the movie isn't original" and then sticking your tongue out and saying "well...uh, yeah, but the one in 1999 wasn't original either" doesn't negate the flaws for the previously aforementioned film.

TFA was the most derivative film i had ever seen, and deflecting the issue towards another film that might borrow arcs, where as this films borrows literal OG actors and characters from the originals, couple that with a half step up in visual design isn't necessarily a good thing.

Movie isn't above criticism, people. Nor should any criticism thrown at it hurt or irk you on a deeply personal level.
 

Rookhelm

Member
I liked TFA quite a bit. I think the new characters are pretty good, especially Kylo and Rey. I hope Finn gets a little more time to shine. He was still a bit "green" and dumbfounded...hopefully he'll have an arc like Luke where he becomes a little more aware and hardened.


if I could change one thing though, it would be Starkiller Base's planet killing capability. Not only because it's just another Death Star (which they even point that out in dialogue), but because I'm typically against power escalation in series like this. "Oh, a NEW bad guy even MORE powerful than the last!". That can only go so far before becoming ridiculous.

Instead, Starkiller Base could have been the staging area/manufacturing area for a, I dunno, stealth Star Destroyer or something. Then, it could have warped to Hosnian and levelled the capital city (rather than blowing up the whole planet) while being invisible or whatever.

The government still would have been crippled, Starkiller Base itself is still a threat that needs destroyed, and now the Republic/Resistance is fully aware of the First Order's resources. All without having to copy the Death Star or escalating "power" to ridiculous levels.
 

DeathyBoy

Banned
Never said the movie was bad, nor is that the argument at hand.

But resulting to this weird need to rush in and protect its ears from any kind of criticism seems weird, oddly paternalistic, and exudes the worst kind of fan boy behavior.

Receiving the criticism "the movie isn't original" and then sticking your tongue out and saying "well...uh, yeah, but the one in 1999 wasn't original either" doesn't negate the flaws for the previously aforementioned film.

TFA was the most derivative film i had ever seen, and deflecting the issue towards another film that might borrow arcs, where as this films borrows literal OG actors and characters from the originals, couple that with a half step up in visual design isn't necessarily a good thing.

Movie isn't above criticism, people. Nor should any criticism thrown at it hurt or irk you on a deeply personal level.

Criticise it all you want, but - again - critically acclaimed and made 2 billion. So yes, they made the right choice.

So all the "why did they make TFA that way?" is some weird ass shit. When you're making s blockbuster, a billion and okay reviews is the peak. 2 billion and great reviews?
 

Kid Ying

Member
Yeah, I see your point. For me it's kind of hard to treat Revenge of the Sith as its own thing though when so much of it story wise is dependent on Attack of the Clones. Like, Return of the Jedi is less dependent on Empire Strikes Back than ROTS is dependent on AOTC in my opinion. So the AOTC connection just naturally brings it down for me. Part of the reason I think there's an argument to be made that Phantom Menace is the best prequel movie is because it's not bogged down by anything else and is a fairly standalone movie. Revenge of the Sith would ultimately be more fondly remembered if the lead in movie to it wasn't the worst thing the franchise has made since the Holiday Special (and honestly AOTC is the movie that sinks the entire trilogy)
Yeah. Totally agree. People love to hate on TPM, but back in 2015, in anticipation for TFA, i've went to see the whole series with a couple of friends and all, and we were like "Man, we really have to endure that shit again?" and after watching we were like "Wow. It wasn't as bad as i remembered". It is bad, but it's not like punch in the face bad that looks like by judging on some people's opinions.

When it aired at the theaters, it was such a letdown to me, but i guess it was more because of the expectations and stuff. I remember going with my mom, since i was a kid and stuff, and i was hoping she would see how SW was good. Hahaha. I was embarassed after that.

Funny that AOTC felt better at the theater, i guess because i was already expecting a big pile of shit. Rewatching it was painful and although Anakin is horrible in the whole trilogy, this one is special. I'm a romantic guy. I even watch soap operas and stuff and that was the worst romance i've ever saw in my whole life. Worst yet, it's almost half of the movie. It's unbelievable, creppy and awful. And i think most of it is because of the actor. The lines are bad, but he can make them specially worse.

People forgot with time how Anakin's actor played a huge role on the awfulness of the movies. I think Revenge is good, but it's not thanks to him.
 

Jinroh

Member
Someone here (or in the other recent thread) said they feel the force awakens is a somewhat claustrophobic movie, and I realized I tend to agree with it. Where does this feeling comes from? Does the movie lack open space?
 

Vagabundo

Member
Someone here (or in the other recent thread) said they feel the force awakens is a somewhat claustrophobic movie, and I realized I tend to agree with it. Where does this feeling comes from? Does the movie lack open space?

There is no galactic feel to the movie. I'd have to watch it again to compare it to the others - and that;s not going to happen - to tell you exactly why that is, but theyu seemed to have shorted down everything so there is no sense of scale to the universe.
 

1138

Member
Are you sure? Lets recap Episode 1

Obi-Wan Kenobi Qui-Gon Jin finds Luke Anakin Skywalker on planet Tattooine, determines he could become a Jedi knight, and together they go off on an adventure together to save Princess Leia Amidala from the grips of the Galactic Empire Trade Federation and destroy the Death Star Droid Command Station in order to save the planet Yavin Naboo. Tragically, though, Obi-Wan Kenobi Qui-Gon Jin loses his life to the evil Darth Vader Maul before he could finish training Luke Anakin. Additionally, Yoda initially refuses to train Luke Anakin because he feels he's too old and Obi-Wan has to insist. Then at the end of the movie, everyone gathers for one big medal ceremony glowing orb ceremony while victorious music plays.

Lucas's prequel trilogy apes a ton from the original trilogy. "It's like poetry, it rhymes"

Say what you want about Episode I's story and acting, but you cant deny that the movie did a lot more to expand the Star Wars universe than the TFA did. Great locations, new lore, fantastic designs and outstanding soundtrack. Lucas may not be much of a scriptwriter, but he did a good job as a world builder.

TFA had some good parts, mainly Jakku, but after they leave the planet it is all down hill. The movie lacks new ideas, story is a retread, as are the designs. There is very little that expands on the lore, and the main threath is beyond ridiculous. The moment when Starkiller base blows up the republic planets might be my most hated moment in the saga. It felt like all sense was thrown out the window when someone is able to shoot death star rays through hyperspace against several planets at once. The viewer has absolutely zero attachment to any of the planets that perish, and even worse is the fact that the whole thing is viewable from the planet surface. I have seen a lot of posters complain about the Starkiller charachter from the TFU in the Rebels thread we had yesterday, but nothing about him violates the universe's rules as much as the Starkiller base moment. When I saw the movie the first time I could not believe what I was seeing. Jar jar defeating the droid army from Episode I by himself would be more believable!
 
Funny that AOTC felt better at the theater.

It totally did. I saw it with an opening night crowd and while I found the movie as a whole to be pretty bad, the entire theater erupted when Yoda pulled out the lightsaber. That shit, in real time, brought the house down.

Not sure how it plays now. I haven't seen any of the PT since their theatrical runs.
 

Jinroh

Member
and even worse is the fact that the whole thing is viewable from the planet surface.
The whole thing makes no sense. It's going at least at the speed of light when it reaches the planets and they see it coming for long enough to go outside and watch it lol.

I'm not even talking about the fact that the cast is supposed to be on the other side of the galaxy and they watch it happening live by looking at the sky.

It makes no goddamn sense.
 

Lifeline

Member
What are you even trying to say here.

What is a "non profit franchise"

What are you talking about

You literally removed the explanation when you quoted me. Like you removed the answer you were looking for. Why lol.

I was just talking about how George Lucas still wants to be a part of the franchise, and if he does why did he even sell it. If he wanted money for charity, he could've easily done another trilogy and donated profits.
 
You literally removed the explanation when you quoted me. Like you removed the answer you were looking for. Why lol.

I was just talking about how George Lucas still wants to be a part of the franchise, and if he does why did he even sell it. If he wanted money for charity, he could've easily done another trilogy and donated profits.

to make this as clear as possible: I was asking a rhetorical question as a means to point out you have a bad grasp on the concepts you're trying to argue, and your assumption as to Lucas' desire to be part of the series is very incorrect on top of that.

I wasn't really looking for an answer from you because I'm pretty sure you don't really know what you're talking about.

That was the point I was making.
 
I'm curious to see what he had planned for this new trilogy.

There was a comic book series in the 90s called... uhhh...Dark Empire I wanna say? He said it was the closest to his vision without being his. All done in watercolor, super fun read. Really tied together the prequels statement of cheating death and showing how strong the emperor actually was.
 

LNBL

Member
The directors and new people in charge do their work and put their vision on the screen i assume. Having george give some suggestions about things doesn't seem like a big issue to me, i actually like that idea.
 

Lifeline

Member
to make this as clear as possible: I was asking a rhetorical question as a means to point out you have a bad grasp on the concepts you're trying to argue

Wait, I was arguing? You sure seem to know a lot more about me than I do. Your tag should be Psychology Expert.
 

border

Member
Is it possible to have a thread about the sequel trilogy that doesn't immediately devolve into "Well maybe the prequels were absolute garbage that no adult would ever want to spend their precious free time viewing, but at least they were original!" ??
 
Wait, I was arguing? You sure seem to know a lot more about me than I do. Your tag should be Psychology Expert.

I don't know if you know, but your grasp on how psychology works seems to be about as solid as the one on "non-profit film franchises."

Is it possible to have a thread about the sequel trilogy that doesn't immediately devolve into "Well maybe the prequels were absolute garbage that no adult would ever want to spend their precious free time viewing, but at least they were original!" ??

Sure, but it probably depends on how short it is.
 

lupinko

Member
Are you sure? Lets recap Episode 1

Obi-Wan Kenobi Qui-Gon Jin finds Luke Anakin Skywalker on planet Tattooine, determines he could become a Jedi knight, and together they go off on an adventure together to save Princess Leia Amidala from the grips of the Galactic Empire Trade Federation and destroy the Death Star Droid Command Station in order to save the planet Yavin Naboo. Tragically, though, Obi-Wan Kenobi Qui-Gon Jin loses his life to the evil Darth Vader Maul before he could finish training Luke Anakin. Additionally, Yoda initially refuses to train Luke Anakin because he feels he's too old and Obi-Wan has to insist. Then at the end of the movie, everyone gathers for one big medal ceremony glowing orb ceremony while victorious music plays.

Lucas's prequel trilogy apes a ton from the original trilogy. "It's like poetry, it rhymes"

This is the best recap I've seen. This made my day, thanks.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
My biggest fear with the sequel trilogy has always been that, without Lucas, it would be too safe and turn into another Blockbuster franchise. With Lucas I at least felt Star Wars had some kind of unique soul behind it. As has been said in this thread, Lucas is actually a great idea man, he's excellent when working with other people. The prequel trilogy is full of ideas that could have been used to make much better movies. Lucas just needed more people to rewrite and filter his ideas, and he probably should have gotten other people to direct the prequels like he originally wanted. I actually like how the prequel movies are patterned structurally after the original trilogy. I thought it was very effective when examining Sith and Jedi next to each other.

That being said, I like what Lucasfilm and Disney have done with Rogue One and the parts of Force Awakens that involve the new characters. I just hope TFA's nostalgia trip was only for that one movie, to bring everyone back on board. My biggest point of confidence with SW going forward is that Disney got a lot of the people who worked with Lucas back in the day and didn't just grab the SW license by itself.
 

sphagnum

Banned
There was a comic book series in the 90s called... uhhh...Dark Empire I wanna say? He said it was the closest to his vision without being his. All done in watercolor, super fun read. Really tied together the prequels statement of cheating death and showing how strong the emperor actually was.

Lucas later said after RotS that "the emperor doesn't come back", so Dark Empire was just a comic he liked and that he felt nailed the feel of Star Wars.

What we do know about Lucas' version of the ST largely comes from the TFA art book and some scattered statements by Pablo and other people here and there. Off the top of my head:

-Luke still would have disappeared, so the Jedi were probably all dead again. However the OT3 weren't really central to the story because Mark said George told them if they didn't want to come back they would just write around it.
-The main character was still going to be a young girl who becomes Luke's apprentice
-Darth Vader had multiple grandchildren
-The trilogy was going to focus on the murkiness of right and wrong and be "more ethereal"
-Episode VII, at least in the early stages, would have had something to do with the main character investigating the ruins of the second Death Star that crashed on Endor to find some sort of thing that would point the way to the rest of the plot
-Jakku was a literal junk world, not a desert
-Felucia heavily featured in the concept art
-Darth Talon (seriously) was used in concept art
 

DonShula

Member
My biggest fear with the sequel trilogy has always been that, without Lucas, it would be too safe and turn into another Blockbuster franchise. With Lucas I at least felt Star Wars had some kind of unique soul behind it. As has been said in this thread, Lucas is actually a great idea man, he's excellent when working with other people. The prequel trilogy is full of ideas that could have been used to make much better movies. Lucas just needed more people to rewrite and filter his ideas, and he probably should have gotten other people to direct the prequels like he originally wanted. I actually like how the prequel movies are patterned structurally after the original trilogy. I thought it was very effective when examining Sith and Jedi next to each other.

That being said, I like what Lucasfilm and Disney have done with Rogue One and the parts of Force Awakens that involve the new characters. I just hope TFA's nostalgia trip was only for that one movie, to bring everyone back on board. My biggest point of confidence with SW going forward is that Disney got a lot of the people who worked with Lucas back in the day and didn't just grab the SW license by itself.

This is not the first post I've seen about the prequels having "soul" and I just can't wrap my head around it.

Otherwise great actors delivering abysmal dialogue with dead eyes is pretty much my definition of the absence of soul. And it happened three times. Now that the effects have aged and look like network TV quality CG, there just isn't anything left there but the shreds of some unrealized visions and a bunch of Jedi acting like fools.
 
I know but that isn't explained in the film and that lore itself exists just to poorly explain why the resistances even exists. It's pretty obvious they didn't come to the conclusion that the resistance was most logical and believable future of the galactic affairs they wanted the rebels versus the evil empire theme no what and constructed some lore that doesn't even exist in the final cut of the film to explain it.


The old republic didn't have an existential outside threat (which is why it broke down from within) which is why you can or not feign believability about it since it'd be like the UN having it's own completely independent army which it doesn't. The new republic definitely does have existential threat that they even knew about.

IIRC, the prequel book to the movie laid it out pretty well: there were a lot of pro-empire senators int he new republic who really shut down a lot of investigation into the first order, which was made out as a minor threat. Leia disagreed, but was branded a warmonger. As a result, she basically formed a splinter group, armed with some "spare" fighters and resources, and kept an eye on the first order.

So what you had was basically this: The new republic, the remnants of the empire, and two splinter groups, one aligned with each side.

When starkiller base was completed, it tipped the scales. First order struck, destroying the new republic fleet, which left leia on her own, and removed the primary check on the remnants of the empire, and the resistances key support.
 
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