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Kickstarter: Project Rap Rabbit (Parappa x Gitaroo Man creators)

C

Crayolan

Member
Sounds like they have a good concept but I'm worried about this actually hitting its goal. Rhythm-action games in specific may be sparse nowadays but pure rhythm games do a good job of filling the void. I just don't see this capturing the whole "we need to bring this back!" crowd that Yooka Laylee did.

I also expect people will be more turned off by the price tag than usual because of the perception that rhythm games are cheap somehow. Or because the game is set to have only 6 songs and rhythm games nowadays have hundreds.

It also doesn't help that the heads leading this project don't hold the name recognition of people like Iga and Inafune, and their respective games are pretty niche.

ramoisdead said:
It was also another thing that put me off. Just forget for a sec that the "Make ______ Great Again" is now portrayed in negative connotation in the West, when were rhythm action games bad?? If anything they were just super niche.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if they were ever bad but I can't think of a single notable one since Ouendan 2. Unless Rhythm Heaven Megamix counts.

Deft Beck said:
Given that the theme of the story seems to be embracing diversity and making a constructive effort towards social change in lieu of polarization and despair, I think it's meant to tie into how it's an overall allegory for the current zeitgeist.
Click to expand...

Or just Japanese people seeing a phrase commonly used by Americans and not understanding the implications behind it.
 
W

Worthintendo

Member
Yeah I got burnt hard by Kickstarters early on in the Wii Us life with the promise of Wii U stretch goals only for them to not be delivered on. Not backing this, if it comes to the Switch will most likely get, but not risking it again.
 
G

GhostTrick

Banned
Crayolan said:
Sounds like they have a good concept but I'm worried about this actually hitting its goal. Rhythm-action games in specific may be sparse nowadays but pure rhythm games do a good job of filling the void. I just don't see this capturing the whole "we need to bring this back!" crowd that Yooka Laylee did.

I also expect people will be more turned off by the price tag than usual because of the perception that rhythm games are cheap somehow. Or because the game is set to have only 6 songs and rhythm games nowadays have hundreds.

It also doesn't help that the heads leading this project don't hold the name recognition of people like Iga and Inafune, and their respective games are pretty niche.



I'm not sure if they were ever bad but I can't think of a single notable one since Ouendan 2. Unless Rhythm Heaven Megamix counts.



Or just Japanese people seeing a phrase commonly used by Americans and not understanding the implications behind it.
Click to expand...



Well, it doesnt help that it IS expensive for a rythm game on Kickstarter. Kickstarter is the platform where you're supposed to draw funds by being attractive to investors, by offering them the game for a lower price.

40 euros is considered as a premium price, especially as for it being the lowest tier. Then again, Shenmue III was 30 euros to get the game. Same for Bloodstained. And Yooka Laylee was 18 euros.


40 euros just is too much to ask to fund a 6 stages rythm game. It should be 25 euros AT MOST in the Kickstarter stage, because you're asking people to trust you with no guarantee. Then 40 euros when you finally release it.
 
M

MrBadger

Member
Crayolan said:
I'm not sure if they were ever bad but I can't think of a single notable one since Ouendan 2. Unless Rhythm Heaven Megamix counts.
Click to expand...

Rhythm Thief and the Emperor's Treasure is really good. But its sales probably just hammer home the point about rhythm action games being super niche.
 
Deft Beck

Deft Beck

Member
squall23 said:
What is iNiS doing nowadays anyway?
Click to expand...

Mobile games.

GhostTrick said:
.

Oh and, game is fuckin expensive. 40€ for your base tier ??? And that's for a 6 levels rythm game. No early birds, no gameplay, nothing.

Shenmue 3 was 30 euros, Bloodstained was 30 euros, Yooka Laylee was 18 euros and Mighty n9 was 18 euros.
Click to expand...

I bought Gitaroo Man for $50 used at Gamestop a decade ago. It was still worth it.

MrBadger said:
Rhythm Thief and the Emperor's Treasure is really good. But its sales probably just hammer home the point about rhythm action games being super niche.
Click to expand...

Rhythm Thief is an awful game that fails to be a competent adventure game or a cohesive rhythm action game. I would argue the game being so slipshod is a big part of why it didn't sell well.

Crayolan said:
Or just Japanese people seeing a phrase commonly used by Americans and not understanding the implications behind it.
Click to expand...

Keiichi Yano went to college in the U.S. and appears to be completely fluent in English.
 
M

MrBadger

Member
Deft Beck said:
Rhythm Thief is an awful game that fails to be a competent adventure game or a cohesive rhythm action game. I would argue the game being so slipshod is a big part of why it didn't sell well.
Click to expand...

It's flawed in areas, but otherwise it's a decent rhythm game and I'd wager that the genre's wide appeal played a bigger role in its sales than the broken scoring or shitty motion controls.
 
G

GhostTrick

Banned
Deft Beck said:
I bought Gitaroo Man for $50 used at Gamestop a decade ago. It was still worth it.
Click to expand...



Right but you missed important points in my argument:
First, it was decades ago as you said.
But second and MOST importantly:
It's a Kickstarter. You're talking to investors which gets in return a game. And to convince these investors, you need appealing tiers and premise.

In a world where Shenmue 3 had a 30 dollars tier for being the sequel of two open adventure games with high production values, where Bloodstained had a 30 dollars tier for being a spiritual successor of Castlevania, where Yooka Laylee had a 20 dollars tier for being a spiritual successor to Banjo, Rap Rabbit cant exist at 40 dollars in the kickstarter form.

At release ? Sure and in fact, it'd be a decent pricepoint, even though slightly high. But at the Kickstarter stage ? It's indecent.
 
D

dracula_x

Member
update – https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/460689844/project-rap-rabbit-working-title/posts/1886521 :)


Somebody’s ripped down our Stretch Goals scroll! (Spoiler: it was us.)

Firstly – Another huge, huge thank you to everybody who’s backed, shared, liked, commented or even simply looked at Project Rap Rabbit so far. We’ve been blown away by the response since we first unveiled Project Rap Rabbit four days ago. Over the last 24 hours we’ve been taking the time to digest all your comments, wishes and feedback, and one request stands out above all others: a significantly lower Nintendo Switch goal.

We want to let you know that we hear you loud and clear. As a result, we are busy re-examining our Stretch Goal format to prioritise a Nintendo Switch version of Project Rap Rabbit above other features.

This is a process we need to undertake carefully and methodically, so please bear with us while we piece together our new plan. We’ll update our Stretch Goals as soon as we possibly can – until then, keep the comments flooding in on social media and here on the Kickstarter page, and we’ll continue to answer all your questions.
Click to expand...

.

Over the last 24 hours we’ve been taking the time to digest all your comments, wishes and feedback, and one request stands out above all others: a significantly lower Nintendo Switch goal. We want to let you know that we hear you loud and clear. As a result, we are busy re-examining our Stretch Goal format to prioritise a Nintendo Switch version of Project Rap Rabbit above other features.

This is a process we need to undertake carefully and methodically, so please bear with us while we piece together our new plan. We’ll update our Stretch Goals as soon as we possibly can.
Click to expand...
 
C

Camjo-Z

Member
Crayolan said:
Sounds like they have a good concept but I'm worried about this actually hitting its goal. Rhythm-action games in specific may be sparse nowadays but pure rhythm games do a good job of filling the void. I just don't see this capturing the whole "we need to bring this back!" crowd that Yooka Laylee did.

I also expect people will be more turned off by the price tag than usual because of the perception that rhythm games are cheap somehow. Or because the game is set to have only 6 songs and rhythm games nowadays have hundreds.

It also doesn't help that the heads leading this project don't hold the name recognition of people like Iga and Inafune, and their respective games are pretty niche.
Click to expand...

The more I think about how this KS is being handled the more it annoys me. I really want to play this game but there's so much working against it.

- No gameplay footage or music samples to pitch a rhythm game
- Extremely lofty funding goal for a game selling itself on the legacy of two fairly unknown devs
- Absurdly high stretch goals that have apparently been realistically budgeted but will look outlandish to the average KS user and never get reached. These are the kinds of things you hide until after you've smashed the funding goal.
- Lowest tier with a reward is $40, just for a digital copy of the game (basically a pre-order) so they've priced themselves completely out of the average donation amount of $25
- The first stretch goal is to make an extra level/costume for the game that only backers would get. For a game that only has 6 stages as it is. This is where the first $700,000 after the initial funding goal would be going, while the Switch goal sits behind an unattainable 5 million. Are you kidding me!?

I think these guys thought this was going to blow up in the same way Shenume 3/Yooka-Laylee/Bloodstained/etc. did and it's just not going to happen. They need a serious rework of some things if they want this to succeed. Some footage, a few lower tiers, maybe a tier between Phat and Hardcore without the vinyl to encourage pledge upgrades - and most importantly, KS devs need to realize that Switch is currently the new hotness and people will pledge to get more quality games on it... if you make it a priority. I just watched Super Plexis just barely get funded with its Kickstarter because they wanted $6000 for a mobile version with a $20,000 stretch goal for Switch. Meanwhile, nearly every post in the GAF thread I made about it was some variation of "not interested in mobile but I'd pledge if Switch was a sure thing".

edit: fucking lmao, the second i post this they do what i said
 
P

PoshAlligatorRD

Neo Member
Camjo-Z said:
edit: fucking lmao, the second i post this they do what i said
Click to expand...

At least is shows they're listening to what people are saying!

For what it's worth I spoke to some of the guys on this project earlier today, and they've been keeping up with pretty much everything posted about it everywhere (including here). Didn't know they were going to do this, but it makes sense I think.
 
P

papertoonz

Member
nice to see they are reevaluating the stretch goals, hopefuly they get rid of the backer only stage

i don't really care about switch that much but if giving it more priority means it getting more likely funded then okay
 
G

GDGF

Soothsayer
Hope they make their Switch stretch goal something reasonable. Would be great to play a game from them on a Nintendo system.

(and yes I remember the wii marching band game)
 
A

Axass

Member
This has been seriously mismanaged so far, and it's a shame, because the gameplay mechanics seem actually fresh and interesting, as is the mix of oriental and sci-fi elements.

This is like a theme for japanese game kickstarters: they either can't meet expectations (Mighty No.9, Project Phoenix) or fail to promote their product efficiently (Red Ash, Shen-Mue 3, Rap Rabbit).

Bloodstained is the exception so far, but it's not out yet, so who knows.
 
R

RecRoulette

Member
squall23 said:
What is iNiS doing nowadays anyway?
Click to expand...

Being dead? Earlier in the thread there was something from twitter talking about how iNiS proper shutdown and they salvaged iNiS J out of it.

The last major thing they worked on was Just Sing from Ubisoft. Before that I think was the Karaoke app on Xbox One

Just_sing_boxart.jpg
Click to expand...
 
C

Camjo-Z

Member
PoshAlligatorRD said:
At least is shows they're listening to what people are saying!

For what it's worth I spoke to some of the guys on this project earlier today, and they've been keeping up with pretty much everything posted about it everywhere (including here). Didn't know they were going to do this, but it makes sense I think.
Click to expand...

It's great that they're listening to feedback. I don't care if this thing inches over the goal with 2 seconds to spare, I want to see it get made!

GDGF said:
Hope they make their Switch stretch goal something reasonable. Would be great to play a game from them on a Nintendo system.

(and yes I remember the wii marching band game)
Click to expand...

The saddest thing about Major Minor is that it's not even a good music game even if you take away the Wii waggle controls, nearly all the tracks are just lame public domain marching band music. The last two levels have original compositions from Matsuura and they're so much better than the rest of the game, though I can't find the music anywhere online so unfortunately I'm forced to play the game if I want to hear them.
 
Wireframe

Wireframe

Member
As much as I loved the original parappa and gitaroo man, I'm gonna pass on this. After yooka-laylee and mighty number nine I've just been burned too many times by kickstarter. I've backed bloodstained and shenmue also.
 
G

GoaThief

Member
UnemployedVillain said:
Which are all considerations when porting to the XBO. I swear some of you see x86 and think porting is trivial compared to to ARM, like these devs are all coding to the metal or something
Click to expand...
No, they're not at all unless you're going to claim the XB1 is not x86 now? That it's likely developers have years of experience with both the PS4 and XB1 platforms - the Switch has only just arrived with less mature tools? Not to mention the huge gulf in power between the Switch and the others and the amount of optimisation required to get the game running smoothly on a fraction of the power (portable).

They're not the same at all and it's completely understandable why a Switch port from PC/PS4 lead platforms will cost more than XB1. It's not a conspiracy or underhanded just reasonable logic.
 
Toadthemushroom

Toadthemushroom

Member
GoaThief said:
No, they're not at all unless you're going to claim the XB1 is not x86 now? That it's likely developers have years of experience with both the PS4 and XB1 platforms - the Switch has only just arrived with less mature tools? Not to mention the huge gulf in power between the Switch and the others and the amount of optimisation required to get the game running smoothly on a fraction of the power (portable).

They're not the same at all and it's completely understandable why a Switch port from PC/PS4 lead platforms will cost more than XB1. It's not a conspiracy or underhanded just reasonable logic.
Click to expand...

It looks like it's Unreal 4, which has an "export to Switch" button. Not that that will actually generate a fully functional Switch version of the game, but note that Snake Pass on Switch was released before Unreal 4 support on Switch was finalised, and NBA Playgrounds on Switch is also Unreal 4. So it's a good thing that the stretch goals are currently being re-revaluated. Bloodstained is also coming to Switch on Unreal 4, though we haven't seen enough of that game to get a feel for how it'll translate.

If bringing the game to several platforms on day one (assuming the stretch goals are referring to that) is too risky I would be happy with it launching on PS4/PC and coming to XBO/Switch later, when there's less risk involved and more time to do good ports. That's happened with Thumper, where the dev team's single programmer was tasked with bringing it, and the game's custom engine, to Switch and Xbox One. Launching on Switch this Thursday.
 
G

GoaThief

Member
Toadthemushroom said:
If bringing the game to several platforms on day one (assuming the stretch goals are referring to that) is too risky I would be happy with it launching on PS4/PC and coming to XBO/Switch later, when there's less risk involved and more time to do good ports.
Click to expand...
Reasonable.

Have to say despite not being a fan of Parappa I'm digging the art style and the concepts they're presenting more and more. Might throw 30 in if momentum is maintained and funding is achieved.
 
F

FoneBone

Member
Camjo-Z said:
If they weren't already working on it they should definitely be making gameplay footage (or at least a music sample!) their first priority. There's 34 days left in the campaign so they've got plenty of time to cook something up.

So far they're just over 7% of the way to the goal during Day 1... which is good if pledges keep rolling in at this rate, bad if they're frontloaded.
Click to expand...
Kickstarters are always frontloaded. If it can't even get to 10% funded in the first 24 hours, it's effectively dead.
 
dickroach

dickroach

Member
they need to tear the whole thing down and start over.
modifying stretch goals, the things that are supposed to incentive people to help you blow way past your goal, means nothing when the goal isn't going to be met.

9% of the goal in the first day, more than half of that in the first 6 hours, and it's showing zero signs of gaining momentum into the second day.
 
C

Camjo-Z

Member
Noticed that some new FAQ sections were added.

Can I play Project Rap Rabbit with Japanese audio and English text?

Good question! Our intention is for all copies of Project Rap Rabbit to be fully playable in both Japanese and English – and we fully expect this to be the case at launch. Due to the complexities of translation and the fact that this is a rhythm-action game, however, engineering a way to play with English text and Japanese audio is a tough egg to crack crack crack in a way that makes sense.
It's something we've talked about at length, but while the English text/Japanese audio M.I.X. combo is looking highly unlikely, we're confident that no language has the edge when it comes to gaining scores. That way, our global leaderboards will be fair.
Click to expand...

What are the minimum PC specifications?

Though it's too early for us to fully commit to exact specifications at this point in development, our expected minimum requirements for Project Rap Rabbit are:

CPU: i5 3470 @ 3.0Ghz/AMD FX-6300
GPU: Geforce 750 Ti/Radeon R7 260x
VRAM: 2GB
RAM: 8GB
Click to expand...

I'm interested in the game and just one or two items from higher tiers – will you be adding further tiers or add-on features that I can select?

We hear you! We've had many questions asking to add, say, the vinyl soundtrack to the game's physical edition. As soon as our new Stretch Goal targets are established (soon!) we'll open up our reward tiers to offer up more flexibility precisely for this situation.
Click to expand...

So they're reworking the stretch goals and adding more flexible reward tiers. Throw in some music/gameplay and all of the campaign's issues will be solved as far as I'm concerned.
 
dickroach

dickroach

Member
Camjo-Z said:
Throw in some music/gameplay and all of the campaign's issues will be solved as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...

I think if they were at the point where they could just "throw in" gameplay they would have.

this thing is barely crawling at this point.after the first two days it'll be at 11% of the goal. it's dead.
 
C

Camjo-Z

Member
dickroach said:
I think if they were at the point where they could just "throw in" gameplay they would have.

this thing is barely crawling at this point. in the first 48 hours it'll be just over 10% funded. it's dead.
Click to expand...

Well yeah, what I mean is that a month should be enough time to put together a little something to show beyond concept art, especially if development is "well underway". Even Mighty No. 9 managed to have a jammin' sample of the main theme to listen to.

As for its current state, we'll see if the Switch rejiggering is enough to give it a second wind from Nintendo fans. It is the PaRappa successor, so... you gotta BELIEVE!
(and if it really is dead let's hope they try to sell it to sony as a straight parappa sequel hehe)
 
L

LAA

Member
Uff. Its not increasing like I hoped and seemingly a bad sign.
Hope the switch version pushes it more. I would probably pay another £20 to get it on Switch.
 
C

Crayolan

Member
GhostTrick said:
Well, it doesnt help that it IS expensive for a rythm game on Kickstarter. Kickstarter is the platform where you're supposed to draw funds by being attractive to investors, by offering them the game for a lower price.

40 euros is considered as a premium price, especially as for it being the lowest tier. Then again, Shenmue III was 30 euros to get the game. Same for Bloodstained. And Yooka Laylee was 18 euros.


40 euros just is too much to ask to fund a 6 stages rythm game. It should be 25 euros AT MOST in the Kickstarter stage, because you're asking people to trust you with no guarantee. Then 40 euros when you finally release it.
Click to expand...

Oh jeez I didn't even look at the reward tiers. $40 for digital? They're losing so many potential backers just off that. I agree, lowering the price for backers then raising it on release is a better model.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
Even if they fix the goals the momentum is gone. They'd have to lower the overall goal so that people believe in funding it by viablity.
 
L

LAA

Member
Crayolan said:
Oh jeez I didn't even look at the reward tiers. $40 for digital? They're losing so many potential backers just off that. I agree, lowering the price for backers then raising it on release is a better model.
Click to expand...

Yeah the price of the digital version has put me off, more so seeing it may only be for 6 levels.
But at the same time, they'd be lowering their funds already which isn't going tremendously well, in the hopes more would pay to increase it. I think it'd work for me, but can't say how many others it's tempt doing that
 
G

GhostTrick

Banned
Crayolan said:
Oh jeez I didn't even look at the reward tiers. $40 for digital? They're losing so many potential backers just off that. I agree, lowering the price for backers then raising it on release is a better model.
Click to expand...



That's basically what always have been the case for the biggest kickstarters or so. Kickstarter is preordering but with money upfront, with no way to cancel and not being sure to get your product. The least thing you can do is offer the game to your investors for a smaller price. In fact, it's also an incentive for people to pay right now and have it like 40% cheaper.

Heck, if they dont want to make it cheaper, why dont they have early bird ? Which is basically discounted pledge for the first backers.


The way this kickstarter is managed and amateur and silly. They treat it as a pre-order platform wuthout any showing. And as a lot of people said:
Rythm game without demo or even music ? Yeah, you're asking people to buy on pure faith.



And taking a look at the rewards, some are insanely expensive. Collector edition is 179 euros, getting it signed is 350€. Wtf.
 
C

Camjo-Z

Member
WAY better Switch goal, and that big discount for a digital version should be much more palatable for people who scoffed at $40. It'll be tough to regain the momentum that was lost by not having these from the start but let's hope word gets out to all the Switch fans out there!
 
C

capylikesgames

Banned
Doesn't seem to be a cap on Early Bird tier (yet?). Swapped to it as soon as I saw the news, though. Glad I checked my emails first thing in the morning, because I'd rather not risk it.
 
R

RoboGeorgeForeman

Banned
I kinda want to support the Switch version, but I can't even see it hitting its main goal. If it's doing a bit better towards the end of the kickstarted I might back it.
 
S

soultron

Banned
Hate to say it but I don't think it's happening. The initial wave of press is over and they've not hit a good % of their funding goal yet.

If they aren't planning on showing gameplay before the funding deadline then I have no faith in this scraping by. And please, don't quote me saying I've gotta believe.
 
L

LAA

Member
Sweet! They had an early bird special, consider it backed now.
Hopefully that and the Switch version addition will boost the numbers!
 
R

Ridley327

Member
jonno394 said:
Wow, didn't expect it to be moved to that low! I thought maybe switched with Xbox One, makes you question their initial explanation as to why it HAD to be so high at first.
Click to expand...

TBH, they even straight up admitted that the cost to do a Switch port really wasn't that high in the original FAQ, and reading between the lines made it sound like that they really wanted to have their "vision" fully realized with all of the other stretch goals before doing a Switch port. Putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.

I hope this does give them a boost, because these first couple of days have been pretty abysmal as far as the tracking is concerned.
 
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