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Best roguelike on the DS - New official thread of you will buy Shiren DS
- Thread starter dark steve
- Start date
Seconded. I've been playing Nethack off and on for more time than I am willing to admit...GreenNight said:
In addition to Nethack, Angband and it's bajillion variants are also hugely fun. They are a bit different in tone - less of a "hey let's figure out every possible item interaction" and more crawling through hundreds of levels of huge dungeons slaughtering thousands of monsters.
They're all freakishly hard, too. I think I've won maybe five games of Nethack and ten or so of Angband + variants the entire time I've been playing them.
All that said I am picking up Shiren as soon as I can find a copy. Sounds freaking awesome.
So is this gonna be Etrian Odyssey rare, where I need to pick it up ASAP or risk having to resort to Ebay to get a new copy?
I first learned of this yesterday by reading the new copy of EGM of all things, they had a small blurb on it. I like the screens and the general look of the game, and I love Sugiyama's stuff. I hadn't really even heard the term "roguelike" until a few years ago, but this game sounds old-school and hardcore enough to be lots of fun.
I first learned of this yesterday by reading the new copy of EGM of all things, they had a small blurb on it. I like the screens and the general look of the game, and I love Sugiyama's stuff. I hadn't really even heard the term "roguelike" until a few years ago, but this game sounds old-school and hardcore enough to be lots of fun.
TreeFrog78
Member
Does Shiren suffer from only being able to see a tiny number of squares at once? I found it really annoying on Izuna, trying to aim missile attacks at enemies that are off-screen...
In traditional (ASCII) roguelikes, this was never an issue.
In traditional (ASCII) roguelikes, this was never an issue.
TreeFrog78 said:
Enh, its a decent compromise, I think. The main screen appears to show about 9x9 spaces but the upper screen can show the map of the entire level and with the red little dots on the overhead map its easy enough to at least determine cardinal direction lineups for your wands and arrows even if out of sight but still within range (about ten spaces for most wands and arrows).
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
keanerie said:
8.5?
This game looks interesting. If I had a DS I would buy it
Grimm Fandango
Member
Good score from 1up, not so good ones from IGN and Nintendo Power.
I have enough on my plate as is so I'm going to pass.
I have enough on my plate as is so I'm going to pass.
Grimm Fandango said:
When it comes to niche titles like this, I tend to trust reviewers with somewhat niche-y taste like Parish.
Anyhow, NP probably doesn't want this to cannibalize Pokemon Mystery Dungeon sales, so there that explains that score without resorting to conspiracy theories, and IGN probably didn't want to give Shiren a good score cause the review would draw traffic away from their Brawl coverage. There, discrepancies explained, we can all return to buying this game.
The Hermit
Member
One of the best hype-driven OP I have ever seen! Never heard before and now I would consider buying
Also that US cover is Snes Goemon bad...
If I hadn´t given my DS to my brother 
Also that US cover is Snes Goemon bad...
great score from parish. guess he doesn't mind extremely difficult games, after all. eat that, UGNG whiners!
like Nintendo Power, IGN gave Shiren a 6.5.
i'm adding as many of you as possible to my friends list once i pick this up so you can all save my constantly dying ass.
like Nintendo Power, IGN gave Shiren a 6.5.
i'm adding as many of you as possible to my friends list once i pick this up so you can all save my constantly dying ass.
dark steve
Banned
oh hi IGN
Concept eluded: risk versus reward
Concept eluded: Basic fucking gameplay mechanic
Concept eluded: Simplicity over frills
Concept eluded: Monster drops, shops, monster houses
Concept eluded: Trial and error as a necessary gameplay mechanic
Also, I think there's like one time you can get hurt outside of a dungeon, and it's early in the game. Certainly not anything to get upset about.
I realize I'm ranting over an IGN review, but seriously, I have to say this again so everyone understands:
You are supposed to die in this game. Over and over and over again. The gameplay revolves around dying, because you are supposed to learn from your mistakes.
If I could change the size of the font, this would be in the biggest font possible.
I cannot overstate this enough: Death is not the game saying "fuck you". It's the game saying "pay more attention next time". Death is not the end. Death is not all your progress reset to zero, because unless you're a moron, you are smarter for your death.
Anyway, props to Mr. Parish for really understanding the game. I'll add both reviews to the opening and hope people choose the "right" one to believe.
Concept eluded: risk versus reward
Concept eluded: Basic fucking gameplay mechanic
Concept eluded: Simplicity over frills
Concept eluded: Monster drops, shops, monster houses
Concept eluded: Trial and error as a necessary gameplay mechanic
Also, I think there's like one time you can get hurt outside of a dungeon, and it's early in the game. Certainly not anything to get upset about.
I realize I'm ranting over an IGN review, but seriously, I have to say this again so everyone understands:
You are supposed to die in this game. Over and over and over again. The gameplay revolves around dying, because you are supposed to learn from your mistakes.
If I could change the size of the font, this would be in the biggest font possible.
I cannot overstate this enough: Death is not the game saying "fuck you". It's the game saying "pay more attention next time". Death is not the end. Death is not all your progress reset to zero, because unless you're a moron, you are smarter for your death.
Anyway, props to Mr. Parish for really understanding the game. I'll add both reviews to the opening and hope people choose the "right" one to believe.
the year 20XX
Member
lyre said:
Added a crucial point. I am not cool enough for roguelikes, but I really want the silly Wiimote stand.
edit: Give the OP an award for posting.
Synth_floyd
Banned
Is this the same as the SNES game of the same name that came out about 12 years ago? I've played that game (as well as it's prequel, Torneko's Mysterious Dungeon) and it's a decent Roguelike but it is a Roguelike. However, OP is a lame continuation of the "my opinion is right you are wrong" trend that's been on the internet since Maddox got popular a while ago.
dark steve
Banned
Synth_floyd said:
Well, uh, I'm not exactly going to argue your point that it is a roguelike, even if it's a specialized and refined one.
Believe me, I didn't make this topic the way I did in order to force the game on others - just to get attention for a game that will likely languish on store shelves due to bad box art and inherent niche appeal. I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't anticipating a backlash of people who are upset with my saying this is the best RPG on the DS and then it turns out that they don't like and/or get it. I've sown the seeds of hype, if they grow to become an army of Audrey IIs, that is my fate.
Luckily, I don't have a reputation to throw away - aside from topics like this, I'm mainly at NeoGAF to ask questions and hopefully net a wide range of answers. To give you my life story: I'm an amateur game researcher (I'm not exactly the GDRI, but I tend to accumulate odd trivia and knowledge in the back of my brain and I sometimes find reasons to share) and dream of being a game developer some day. So topics like this are really the exception for me, and mainly trying to make sure that the talent that goes into underdogs is recognized - I don't want ChunSoft to be known in the US as "that Japanese company that made that Pokemon dungeon crawler".
Even if you were to forcibly strip away every bit of hyperbole, I believe that pretty much any gamer with patience and an open mind will find an interesting and challenging experience in Shiren - and if they enjoy it, they will most certainly get their money's worth. This is a card I don't usually play, but when you consider some of the fare that that is being sold at $30 and above on store shelves, even and especially among DS games....Shiren is a damn good deal.
Synth_floyd
Banned
Actually my main argument was about the cliched rhetorial device you used rather than anything about the actual game. I checked Wikipedia and it says the DS version is a "port" of the SNES version (originally from 1995) which I assume means they didn't really change much. You don't really need to worry about Chunsoft though. They are known as the "company who made Dragon Quests 1-5."
rollingstart
Banned
is there a good trailer or video footage that shows the game off? I saw the official US trailer and it was terrible.
dark steve
Banned
Sadly, there's no good footage of Shiren out there. I'm thinking of emailing some sites that review it to request footage, but who knows how that may go over.
Cliches work, as this topic has displayed. Whether they should is a matter left for places other than this...
The changes to the DS version of Shiren are quite numberable, while it isn't a complete overhaul, the game itself has been enhanced in many gameplay areas. It's less of a port and more of a "Director's Cut".
As for ChunSoft, I doubt many western gamers realize that they were heavily involved in the Dragon Quest series. I'm fairly sure quite a number wouldn't even care....
Not many turn-based RPGs support co-op....however, the game does have a rescue mode, where you can rescue a friend from death and reap a reward or two. I believe it works basically the same as the mode in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon...
Synth_floyd said:
Cliches work, as this topic has displayed. Whether they should is a matter left for places other than this...
The changes to the DS version of Shiren are quite numberable, while it isn't a complete overhaul, the game itself has been enhanced in many gameplay areas. It's less of a port and more of a "Director's Cut".
As for ChunSoft, I doubt many western gamers realize that they were heavily involved in the Dragon Quest series. I'm fairly sure quite a number wouldn't even care....
bigswords said:
Not many turn-based RPGs support co-op....however, the game does have a rescue mode, where you can rescue a friend from death and reap a reward or two. I believe it works basically the same as the mode in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon...
Davidion said:
It does take a LOT from the original Rogue/Nethack (I mean the way the shops work complete with the keystone kops and secret gold vaults is RIGHT out of Nethack), but the concept of pots, monster meat, wands of swap spaces, and most of the weirder monster abilities (a tough brute that when damaged enough turns into a chicken, literally, or a scruffy looking guy that turns any item he steps on into a useless weed) are pretty unique to the Mystery Dungeon series of games.
I pre-ordered this yesterday from my local Game Crazy. The store manager said it was a "quick turn" game which means they may not get it in immediately since I pre-ordered it so late (they get copies purely based on pre-orders when they're quick turn, I guess). He said it'd hopefully be Friday.
Here's hoping.
Here's hoping.
Takeda Kenshi
blew Staal
I snagged it today.