Maintenance
Member
Seeing a better screen running around diminishes my will to play, to be honest. This is like getting the worst version of a multiplatform console game.
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New 3DS/XL top screen displays: IPS or non-IPS?
- Thread starter m0t0k1
- Start date
kitchenmotors
Banned
This, and obviously stock was an issue right at launch. If they were really trying to be cheap and screw everyone over, there wouldn't be a higher quality panel in the wild. Sounds like they needed more panels and went to a different manufacture to secure some. It happens all the time and while the lottery thing sucks, sometimes you end up with the good panel.
Most people don't notice though.
Not if you like 3D. I'd rather play Phoenix Wright in 3D than on my iPad. I just love the effect.
Maintenance
Member
You want to talk about 3D? Sure, let's talk about 3D. The one that I got is a piece of crap, my OG 3DS made 3-4 years ago had it better.
So yeah, 3D isn't an option here.
I don't know, resell it and get a non faulty unit? Mine is so much better than the OG, I'd be glad you shared the joy.
marc^o^
Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
(Today, 01:43 PM)
Probably gonnna wait until the second batch of N3DS XL's come in. Don't wanna take the risks. Sadly other companies do this too not just nintendo but it sucks to see Nintendo doing this as well. Now I gotta be checkin eBay and seeing if it's a "Type A" screen or "Type B" lol.
Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
(Today, 01:43 PM)
Probably gonnna wait until the second batch of N3DS XL's come in. Don't wanna take the risks. Sadly other companies do this too not just nintendo but it sucks to see Nintendo doing this as well. Now I gotta be checkin eBay and seeing if it's a "Type A" screen or "Type B" lol.
Maintenance
Member
Right, because I will obviously get enough money to buy a new one. And there is no chance whatsoever that I'll get another bad one.
EDIT: Returning isn't an option here. The vendor will just say: "this is working". The return policy here isn't as lenient as in the States.
truthiness
Member
Wow, that is ridiculous. Leave it to Nintendo to make a ridiculously inane QC process (or not have one at all).
I'm not sure which type of screen my n3ds xl has, but it seems to be a little better than my OG 3ds xl. The colors seem slightly better, particularly the darker colors. But it's not an omg improvement. Now the 3d improvement between my OG 3ds xl and n3ds xl is huge. Stable 3d works really well for me.
I have 4 nintendo handhelds for different members of my family, and we haven't had any issues. But we're not very discerning about perfect screen quality. I'm not sure expectations for near perfect quality 3ds/2ds screens are realistic. I paid a lot more for my iPad Air, and my expecations for screen quality were much, much higher.
I have 4 nintendo handhelds for different members of my family, and we haven't had any issues. But we're not very discerning about perfect screen quality. I'm not sure expectations for near perfect quality 3ds/2ds screens are realistic. I paid a lot more for my iPad Air, and my expecations for screen quality were much, much higher.
protomouse
Member
I was planning to pick up a N3DS this weekend, but I'm putting that off for now. It's really a shame that Nintendo allows such ridiculous tolerances in quality.
Maintenance
Member
I'm telling everyone that I know to wait if they want to get one, this first batch is terrible. A couple of friends already listened.
eighty(one)
Member
Have a MMXL - handed down to son, floppy hinge.
Had a RedNXL - perfect in 99% of all areas (hinge, screen, etc) except the c stick didn't like to move down for MH4. I exchanged it today (system transfer @ GameStop); no hassle got a 100% flawless unit. Everything is perfect.
From my anecdotal experience - if you want a beautiful handheld & less of a crapshoot - pick red.
They're obviously new manufactures for the NA region. They're probably also better tested, vs being holdover stock from another region (black).
Note: the 2 red units do have some movement (held at a vertical angle and really shaken/vibrated, to get the hinge to minorly wiggle/flop - but by no means do they move loosely or when the system is regularly used. They're considered tighter (by my OCD standard) than ANY DS/3DS system, I've ever used.
Again, anecdotal - but red seems the best bet for the screen and hinge lottery.
PS: the 3D effect works better on both red units than the MMXL. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the new 3DS - it really changes games, also just a visual game changer.
Had a RedNXL - perfect in 99% of all areas (hinge, screen, etc) except the c stick didn't like to move down for MH4. I exchanged it today (system transfer @ GameStop); no hassle got a 100% flawless unit. Everything is perfect.
From my anecdotal experience - if you want a beautiful handheld & less of a crapshoot - pick red.
They're obviously new manufactures for the NA region. They're probably also better tested, vs being holdover stock from another region (black).
Note: the 2 red units do have some movement (held at a vertical angle and really shaken/vibrated, to get the hinge to minorly wiggle/flop - but by no means do they move loosely or when the system is regularly used. They're considered tighter (by my OCD standard) than ANY DS/3DS system, I've ever used.
Again, anecdotal - but red seems the best bet for the screen and hinge lottery.
PS: the 3D effect works better on both red units than the MMXL. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the new 3DS - it really changes games, also just a visual game changer.
Maintenance
Member
Heh, mine is red. I agree on the hinge though, that works fine here.
Rodney McKay
Member
I'm just glad the N3DSXL got rid of the yellow tinge I had with my original XL's screen when in 2D mode.Everything was a little duller and muted when I played in 2D, so I almost always played in 3D.
Haven't noticed any screen issues with my new one which I'm very happy about!
Haven't noticed any screen issues with my new one which I'm very happy about!
Toadthemushroom
Member
I'm glad someone picked up on this, though I had no idea there were some N3DS XLs shipping with TN panels. I was always under the impression that they all did, did any JP/early EU models ship with TN panels? I wonder if Nintendo started switching to using several suppliers after production ramped up for worldwide launch, the same thing happened with original 3DS a few months after launch.
The black levels on the N3DS XL are a lot, lot better now though, compared with previous models and even my Vita-2000, which has a pretty decent IPS LCD panel.
My N3DS XL (from 2014) has a Type A panel, though I don't have any issue with flickering -- all pixels stay perfectly sharp for me and look consistent from grid to grid, no matter how close/far I look at it in 2D mode.
Regarding the scanlines, I think it isn't anything to do with the screen but rather how the 3DS works: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=155853997&postcount=25 -- I don't see the separation between horizontal pixels in 2D mode, but I do in 3D.
As for calibration, I'm also glad this has been picked up, though the difference in blacks between screens is more down to Nintendo sourcing an IPS panel on top and a TN panel with worse black levels for the touch screen.
On a somewhat related note...
Vita-1000's OLED display was poorly calibrated -- with a gamma level that's way off -- oversaturating all colours beyond their original intended look, but Vita-2000 is pretty well calibrated (Sony even marketed it as showing "natural" colours in Japan), a first for the company given how badly calibrated the Xperia phones were at the time.
It's a shame few people value the Vita-2000 display, as to my eye it produces colours similar to my iPhone 5s, which has a well calibrated IPS display, when comparing web browser pages.
A good test is to load this image up on your 3DS XL/N3DS XL/Vita-1000/Vita-2000, then to compare it to the same image on a device with a well calibrated display, like an iPhone 6, iPhone 5s, Surface Pro 3, iPad 4/Air/Air 2 (not the Mini), Nexus 5, or a Galaxy S4/5/Note with professional photo/movie calibration mode on.
If you've got the hardware, please post results (a photo of both displays -- handheld and well-calibrated iPad or whatever -- showing the same image). I plan to do so with my N3DS XL and my Vita-2000.
The black levels on the N3DS XL are a lot, lot better now though, compared with previous models and even my Vita-2000, which has a pretty decent IPS LCD panel.
My N3DS XL (from 2014) has a Type A panel, though I don't have any issue with flickering -- all pixels stay perfectly sharp for me and look consistent from grid to grid, no matter how close/far I look at it in 2D mode.
Regarding the scanlines, I think it isn't anything to do with the screen but rather how the 3DS works: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=155853997&postcount=25 -- I don't see the separation between horizontal pixels in 2D mode, but I do in 3D.
As for calibration, I'm also glad this has been picked up, though the difference in blacks between screens is more down to Nintendo sourcing an IPS panel on top and a TN panel with worse black levels for the touch screen.
On a somewhat related note...
Vita-1000's OLED display was poorly calibrated -- with a gamma level that's way off -- oversaturating all colours beyond their original intended look, but Vita-2000 is pretty well calibrated (Sony even marketed it as showing "natural" colours in Japan), a first for the company given how badly calibrated the Xperia phones were at the time.
It's a shame few people value the Vita-2000 display, as to my eye it produces colours similar to my iPhone 5s, which has a well calibrated IPS display, when comparing web browser pages.
A good test is to load this image up on your 3DS XL/N3DS XL/Vita-1000/Vita-2000, then to compare it to the same image on a device with a well calibrated display, like an iPhone 6, iPhone 5s, Surface Pro 3, iPad 4/Air/Air 2 (not the Mini), Nexus 5, or a Galaxy S4/5/Note with professional photo/movie calibration mode on.
If you've got the hardware, please post results (a photo of both displays -- handheld and well-calibrated iPad or whatever -- showing the same image). I plan to do so with my N3DS XL and my Vita-2000.
Maintenance
Member
Where can I get the original picture? I opened this one in my N3DS and in the top screen the red seems washed out, yellow-ish. The angles are terrible too.
I have an IPS monitor and comparing that to the N3DS is mindblowing.
Toadthemushroom
Member
Here you go: http://www.displaymate.com/Color_Diffs_13.html
From my eye, it seems like my N3DS XL doesn't fill the entire sRGB colour space, so it's a bit like the iPad Mini 2 and Surface Pro 2 in those respects (Apple did that to cut costs with the Mini and improve their margins).
It's still a huge improvement over the old XL by any measure though, deeper blacks and a significantly higher contrast ratio. The difference is stark on Etrian Odyssey, especially in the forest-y areas.
Does anyone know why original DS games look washed out on all 3DS models compared to the mighty DSi XL (which did indeed use twin IPS panels)?
From my eye, it seems like my N3DS XL doesn't fill the entire sRGB colour space, so it's a bit like the iPad Mini 2 and Surface Pro 2 in those respects (Apple did that to cut costs with the Mini and improve their margins).
It's still a huge improvement over the old XL by any measure though, deeper blacks and a significantly higher contrast ratio. The difference is stark on Etrian Odyssey, especially in the forest-y areas.
Does anyone know why original DS games look washed out on all 3DS models compared to the mighty DSi XL (which did indeed use twin IPS panels)?
Maintenance
Member
Just tried a picture with Full RGB on the 3DS and in the top screen the black looked like green, while in the bottom screen it looked like purple.
Necromanti
Member
IPS vs PPI... Decisions, decisions.
I think it has something to do with the resolution being different. But i don't have a source on that it's just me thinking out loud. The top screen on the 3ds is 800×240 counting the 3d and the bottom screen is 320×240 the screens on the ds on the other hand are 256 x 192. So guess they look blown up to fit the screen.
Hero Prinny
Member
i got regular xl and i find that the game has a tint when the 3d is off, its like a yellowish tint and the only time it goes away is when the 3d effect is on
Femmeworth
Banned
Yikes.this is false, the new 3ds uses at least two variants of panels and once again nothing is calibrated properly to save money. here's an example of two panels.
the easiest way to check which you have is to watch and see if the wifi indicator washes out or remains readable.
panel A seems to be more common, but it also suffers from a scanline or pwm effect as mentioned in this thread.
panel B is clearly a tn screen. it does not suffer from the scanline issue however the super stable 3D is reported to be much worse with this screen than type A. this might explain why a small number claim the 3D is still crap or worse.
its nice to see my test method being picked up by people. I got so tired of people thinking the off screens was glue drying and other ridiculous things.
for those reading that want more information you can see my other post here.
protomouse
Member
Nothing so far really substantiates the claims that (a) IPS panel technology is being used and (b) that it's exclusive to the XL model. Seems to me like there'll be lottery with either model.
Femmeworth
Banned
Thinking about it, they've done dubious shit like this since the original DS. Also the top screen was crooked on my DS Lite.
Those of you waiting thinking things will improve later on you might be waiting indefinitely. The quality of the original 3ds and 3DSxl never improved with time. In fact Nintendo downgraded the screens of the 3ds not long after launch.
I would not be shocked to see the tn version become the norm over time since tn is cheaper to make.
The second batch and beyond is already out there. You can tell by the serial number how new a unit is. Some units are shipping with the latest firmware which means they are very new and yet the crap to screens are still mixed in.
I would not be shocked to see the tn version become the norm over time since tn is cheaper to make.
The second batch and beyond is already out there. You can tell by the serial number how new a unit is. Some units are shipping with the latest firmware which means they are very new and yet the crap to screens are still mixed in.
Toadthemushroom
Member
The viewing angles on my N3DS XL are flawless from any direction and any angle up to 178 degrees. That's IPS, and at worst, PLS, which is what Surface RT had. It's certainly not a TN panel.
Sorry, I should have clarified -- the colours just look more washed out, even in 1:1 pixel mode. I should probably go on the N3DS web browser and look at some screenshots of DS games to see if it's the screens that are doing it, or the backwards compat mode.
True, I had a few duds with the dslite myself and remember complaints from some people.
You would think the screens would improve as manufacturing got better and cheaper but it seems it hasn't. It might have gotten worse, Nintendo even has some of the issues in there FAQs claiming manufacturing tolerences so they must get enough complaints. Mixing in tn panels is going a bit too far IMO considering it has direct negative impact on one of the big selling points for the n3ds.
Check my link earlier in the thread on how to test your 3ds for off calibration. That method works for comparing ds games with only one cart. I've actually done this comparison myself. The ds looks more vibrant at first glance but if you look close its missing fine detail in dark and very bright colors. The 3ds 1:1 mode does a better job overall.
You can't compare game screens from the Internet to actual hardware.
RadioJoNES64
Banned
Wait, are people upset that the smaller model has an inferior screen? Or is it that the New 3DS XL has been coming with two types of screens, one of which being inferior?
What numbers should I be looking for? I plan to get a N3DSXL in about a month.
What numbers should I be looking for? I plan to get a N3DSXL in about a month.
Apoleptica
Banned
Meh, the difference in image quality isn't as drastic as it was between the backlit and non backlit GBA SPs. I would still much rather have better pixel density / non stretched out image over slightly better colors.
I have no way of comparing multiple New XL screens, but my New XL's viewing angle is significantly better than my original XL's viewing angle. This is with 3D off- I'm not talking about 3D viewing angles.
My original XL's screen begins to blur significantly at about a 45 degree angle - the screen just washes into itself. This does not happen on my New XL. I can continue reading text until my eyes are almost on the same plane as the screen itself.
Is it safe to say that I have an IPS screen? I would think yes?
My original XL's screen begins to blur significantly at about a 45 degree angle - the screen just washes into itself. This does not happen on my New XL. I can continue reading text until my eyes are almost on the same plane as the screen itself.
Is it safe to say that I have an IPS screen? I would think yes?
Yeah I noticed the difference in colors between the top and bottom screen almost immediantly.
Decided to take a pic. Left is MM3DSXL, right is ALBWXL. Brightness at 5 on both, and 3D off. As you can see, the New XL's screen (on left) isn't nearly as washed out. Am I in the cool club?
RadioJoNES64
Banned
I found a list of serials that indicate which batch it is. Perhaps the newer it is, the least likely it is to have issues?
The XL comes with two different screens. One is better than the other.
Serial doesn't matter. Getting a newer manufactured system doesn't improve your chances with the screen and likely never will.
Look at the comparison picture then look at yours at the same angle. Can you still read the wifi indicator or does the screen wash out. It's pretty easy to tell which you have.
Your comparison picture doesn't work btw. Both screens have to be facing the same direction. It's likely you have ips.(the good one)
Opinionatedfish
Member
This reminds me of things I did.. I hope these kind of help?
Here's a bunch of pictures I took and a video I made.
So, I hope those kind of demonstrate a bit more of it?
Honestly, I think I lucked out on my Superior Red New Nintendo 3DS XL.
Pretty happy with it.
Here's a bunch of pictures I took and a video I made.
So, I hope those kind of demonstrate a bit more of it?
Honestly, I think I lucked out on my Superior Red New Nintendo 3DS XL.
Pretty happy with it.
protomouse
Member
Interesting. It's been near impossible to judge from the photos posted. I wish the various teardowns had paid attention to the display assembly. In my experience, quality TN panels can deliver much better color reproduction at wide horizontal viewing angles than the "Type B" example posted earlier, as demonstrated by my 2011 MacBook Pro: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cxGFzZe3HGM. So it's not only that they're using TN panels, but low-quality ones. They remind me of my earliest laptops.
family_guy
Member
I can see why some people would be upset, but the graphics are bad regardless of which one you got.
The screen on my n3DS is noticably punchier and more vibrant than on my MM n3DS XL. Guess I didn't get an IPS model.
Nintendo are fucking losing it...
Not really fixed with this new release, just dependant on luck. My first n3DSXL was yellow as hell on the top screen but snowy white on the bottom.
Nintendo are fucking losing it...
Not really fixed with this new release, just dependant on luck. My first n3DSXL was yellow as hell on the top screen but snowy white on the bottom.
soxinthebox
Member
The colours were noticeably better on the new XL my friend bought compared to my old XL. I just figured they upgraded the screens on all the new models.
Coffee Dog
Banned
haha, holy shit, dodged a bullet there I guess. I grabbed an NXL because DS games look best on it instead of waiting for the regular model w/ faceplates, had no idea the screen was different.
Hmmm...
I've definitely noticed that there are substantial differences between individual units when it comes to screen quality. This is particularly apparent in the colour temperature calibration.
I have the OG 3DS, the new 3DS (white) and the new 3DSXL (Majora's Mask edition). All three are PAL region. There is some screen colour variation between all three - the OG is white bordering on blue, the n3DS is slightly yellow while the n3DSXL is between the two (white).
I'll take comparison photos later, but I think of the three the n3DSXL has the richest colours (more contrast).
I used to have a 3DS XL as well but traded it in before buying a n3DS. It had a screen even warmer than the n3DS. In fact, the very first 3DS XL I bought I returned the next day for a replacement because the screen was disgustingly yellow (seriously, it almost looked like it was drenched in urine). The EB Games employee agreed with me when they saw it.
I've definitely noticed that there are substantial differences between individual units when it comes to screen quality. This is particularly apparent in the colour temperature calibration.
I have the OG 3DS, the new 3DS (white) and the new 3DSXL (Majora's Mask edition). All three are PAL region. There is some screen colour variation between all three - the OG is white bordering on blue, the n3DS is slightly yellow while the n3DSXL is between the two (white).
I'll take comparison photos later, but I think of the three the n3DSXL has the richest colours (more contrast).
I used to have a 3DS XL as well but traded it in before buying a n3DS. It had a screen even warmer than the n3DS. In fact, the very first 3DS XL I bought I returned the next day for a replacement because the screen was disgustingly yellow (seriously, it almost looked like it was drenched in urine). The EB Games employee agreed with me when they saw it.