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Paradox Grand Strategy - Thread of Fighting WW2 as Bithynia

Llyranor

Member
I bought EU4 week ago, and I must say, this game have me like almost no game before.
I like Civ series and Total Wars, but this actually you can learn politics and history from it.

What a good game!
Thanks Paradox!

I still like me some Civ, but yeah, Total War feels like a complete waste of time when there is EU.

I grew up with the Total War series and I have mixed emotions about the series after playing Paradox games :(


EU3 made Civ series obsolete for me.

Total War and Paradox are my favorite strategy games, though, each filling different itches.. The TW turn-based strategy layer isn't anything to write home about, but it's serviceable enough. I love the real-time tactical battles, though, and overall they're one of the better implemented coop strategy games series (alongside Paradox).
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
The one thing the better Civ-games does well is the feeling of literally civilizing the wilderness. I love moving the settlers/workers around and see your country literally transform. This is way more fun than the buildings they have going on in EU. Everything else is better in EU though.
 

ZZMitch

Member
Yeah Civ and Paradox stuff fill very different niches for me (Stellaris being the closest mechanics wise). I still love Civ, no other series is able to replicate the joy I have civilizing the wilderness like you can in Civ games.

The history nerd in me is what really gets me into CK2/EU4/HOI4. So many "what if" scenarios that I love to cause/experience.
 

Martian

Member
In terms of EU4 I strongly recommend just go through builtin tutorial, and then just learn during play.
I did it like this, and after few hours I was understanding core features, and after 26h (Steam log) I know almost everything.
And the good about this approach is that you really have better feeling of achievement learning by your own.
Also thanks to this you memorize much faster.

With regards to EU IV .. I spent time playing as Castile and colonizing the New World as it is the ideal starter nation. You have the leeway to make mistakes & get used to the game mechanics.


Thanks for the advice! I will definitely play the tutorial and my first game will be castile!
 
Yeah Civ and Paradox stuff fill very different niches for me (Stellaris being the closest mechanics wise). I still love Civ, no other series is able to replicate the joy I have civilizing the wilderness like you can in Civ games.

The history nerd in me is what really gets me into CK2/EU4/HOI4. So many "what if" scenarios that I love to cause/experience.

Agreed. But even then, EUIV has meant the last Civ i bought was Civ IV. ;(

If EUIV could get that wild side it'd be great. Ofc, that is predicated on romantic ideas of wilds being empty/natives magically disappearing, which EUIV doesn't/can't do.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Agreed. But even then, EUIV has meant the last Civ i bought was Civ IV. ;(

If EUIV could get that wild side it'd be great. Ofc, that is predicated on romantic ideas of wilds being empty/natives magically disappearing, which EUIV doesn't/can't do.

Civ4 was also the last good Civ-game so you are fine :)
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Civ 5 with CBP mod begs to differ good sir!

Im sure there exist a few mods that make Civ5 slightly less awful, but the big problems with the game (1upt, randomness etc), cant really be fixed by mods - unless they are extremely creative. Maybe some of them are, i havent followed it too closely, but i find the chances pretty slim unfortunately. Civ4 was not perfect either, but it was still a great game where expanding and becoming bigger both was the goal and ultimately gave you more strength. A true civilization-game.
 

Vinter

Member
Couple of hours into the new patch. The whole "ages" thing it's to early to have an opinion on yet. I like the new diplo UI. Also some changes to the building UI. As for all the different stats I must read the changelog first :p
 

Purkake4

Banned
Couple of hours into the new patch. The whole "ages" thing it's to early to have an opinion on yet. I like the new diplo UI. Also some changes to the building UI. As for all the different stats I must read the changelog first :p
All the age triggers should be dynamic, at the moment the second age triggers with protestantism + 10 years, but the other two are just tied with institutions that can only trigger after a certain year. I feel that this is lazy design and age changes should be dynamically triggered, allowing you to either topple a rival with a carefully planned out age change or lose your edge when you don't plan ahead.
 

ag-my001

Member
I wouldn't call it massive. Stream sales used to be 75% off for DLC, but the last couple have been only 60 or 66%. This one is down to only 50% off, even for the ones that are several years old and considered "essential".
 

frontovik

Banned
As much as I approve of Paradox's focus on grand strategy games .. their DLC/expansion practice makes me shake my head, especially for the price they're charging.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Played a bit EU IV with the new ages thing last night. Not too much to form an opinion about it, but it's a bit like having small achievements within a certain timelime. I actually kind of like it so far. Let's see how it plays further on.
 

mxgt

Banned
As much as I approve of Paradox's focus on grand strategy games .. their DLC/expansion practice makes me shake my head, especially for the price they're charging.

I don't really like that they have the content packs separately but other than that I have no problem with what they're doing. They have to charge for their work after all and the games provide massive value.

Gotta say the amount of idiots on Steam that buy the DLC then immediately write a negative review complaining about price are hilarious.
 

Vinter

Member
As much as I approve of Paradox's focus on grand strategy games .. their DLC/expansion practice makes me shake my head, especially for the price they're charging.

To be fair, I would argue that grand strategy isn't what sells the most. Besides the DLC's add a lot of content. CKII came out in 2012 and it still gets regular content updates. Should they do all that work for free? I understand why some are critical of it, but as long as they keep adding great content and making good games I have no issue with it.
 

CzarTim

Member
As much as I approve of Paradox's focus on grand strategy games .. their DLC/expansion practice makes me shake my head, especially for the price they're charging.
I think of it as a Patron. $20 once or twice a year to keep getting updates for some of my favorite games.
 
Honestly, the real problem with Paradox DLCs is that they make the games look very LTTP-unfriendly. Which is why I think Stellaris will probably overtake CK2 and EU4 in popularity going forward, since it doesn't yet have a massive stack of DLCs you additionally have to get in order to have the "complete" experience that everyone is talking about.

...I mean shit, how many LPs of Paradox titles do you see done with only Vanilla content? Most of the interesting shit that games like CK2 and EU4 got their reputations from are from DLC.
 

Purkake4

Banned
Honestly, the real problem with Paradox DLCs is that they make the games look very LTTP-unfriendly. Which is why I think Stellaris will probably overtake CK2 and EU4 in popularity going forward, since it doesn't yet have a massive stack of DLCs you additionally have to get in order to have the "complete" experience that everyone is talking about.

...I mean shit, how many LPs of Paradox titles do you see done with only Vanilla content? Most of the interesting shit that games like CK2 and EU4 got their reputations from are from DLC.
If they kept up the main game + DLC collections like they do with CK2 this wouldn't be a problem. I got CK2 + all the DLC up to Way of Life for like 35€ during a Paradox sale.

They pretty suspiciously stopped updating the EUIV collection like 2 years ago...

I also don't see why Stellaris wouldn't follow the same DLC strategy, it seems to be on track so far.
 

Wanace

Member
Playing as Ming right now, it's really OP.

I've been sinking my huge ducat surplus into early colonization, combined with the ages decision that gives the +3 development to completed colonies. Went exploration and expansion as first two ideas.

Already colonized the Moluccas, Taiwan, and have a colonial nation in Australia by 1500. Also spawned colonialism.

Been letting my tributaries give me monarch points and money and leaving them alone for the most part. Went to war with a few nations who refused to be tributaries and took land, but not too much because without humanism early Ming is still really fragile with rebels.

Passed the first two Mandates and about to get the third. Best not to do it before you get to 100 Mandate though because otherwise your army will suck balls against rebels that will definitely be spawning.

The new macro builder is AMAZING and should be a free addition if it's not (I didn't pay attention to what's free or not).

Overall having some fun with this. Actually got the "Die Please Die" achievement this run which wasn't great with my first ruler, but whatever, I didn't have it yet!

Always some controversy with the price but yeah I basically only play this game these days so I don't mind paying $20 for it.
 

Uzzy

Member
Yeah, I'm playing as Japan and Ming are terrifying. They're insanely powerful, with 35 tributaries including a bunch of Indian and Native American nations. They're two institutions behind me but are still on par with the European nations for tech.

Ming are as terrifying as Austria getting personal unions over France and the Ottomans.
 

CzarTim

Member
Yeah, I'm playing as Japan and Ming are terrifying. They're insanely powerful, with 35 tributaries including a bunch of Indian and Native American nations. They're two institutions behind me but are still on par with the European nations for tech.

Ming are as terrifying as Austria getting personal unions over France and the Ottomans.

Pretty much in the same boat as Japan. I managed to take Korea and had a bunch of Native American tributaries myself, but then Ming attacked me and I basically had no recourse.
 

Fitz

Member
All sounding good there so far, the less pointless mechanics in the game the better. Working in some buffs to the Naval ideas as well is great. Curious what changes they're planning for Hungary though to make it notable enough to name the patch after, I don't know much about what happened in that region during this period beyond swapping between the Turks and the Austrians.
 

Thraktor

Member
So I learnt a very important lesson in EU4 yesterday: If you start in the new world and expand into Europe, do not move your capital into Europe:

plopian_everything.jpg

Thank god for force quit. I was in Ironman (going for the Ideas Guy achievement), and had I not been able to force quit and revert to the last save I would have had to pretty much give up the game and start over. I try to stick to the spirit of Ironman and not squirrel my way through, but that's a case where I think squirrelling was definitely justified.

Looks like Sailors are getting an overhaul next patch. Ships at sea will drain them over time: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...development-diary-11th-of-april-2017.1012274/

Well there's an incentive to get my Ideas Guy run out of the way before this patch hits (or just disable updates in Steam). My trade protection fleet (~60 ships at about 1550) would probably chew through my supply of sailors in no time at all. It seems like a sensible enough way of approaching sailors, though. It never really made much sense to add them in only for them to be completely irrelevant 99.99% of the time.
 

Fitz

Member
Been taking a more leisurely approach than usual to Paradox dlc recently with lots of other stuff on the go, so haven't picked up any of the recent ones. Mandate of Heaven getting Mixed reviews on Steam atm. Not enough bang for buck with this one?
 
Been taking a more leisurely approach than usual to Paradox dlc recently with lots of other stuff on the go, so haven't picked up any of the recent ones. Mandate of Heaven getting Mixed reviews on Steam atm. Not enough bang for buck with this one?

Depends, personally I have always found that their expansion DLC is 5 € a bit too expensive, it should be 10-15 €.

Any ways, it depends on how much you actually like playing in the East Asia region or if you have always wanted to but the region didn't have good enough mechanics like Europe with the HRE.

While the new historical ages/golden era system is great and applies to everywhere in the game, that and the diplomatic macro builder aren't worth the 20 € if you don't care about East Asia.

However, if you do have interest in playing in that region then I think the 20 € price is fine, even though I think they should always be around 15 € instead.

I'm currently playing a game as Korea, which is a tributary of Ming, and having a lot of fun especially when trying to break away from being subservient to Ming, by aligning myself with the Japanese for help.

I never really played in East Asia, I have always played Europe and the Middle-east, but now I have a good reason to play games in East Asia, so for me I love the expansion.

Hi! Does anyone have a good youtube tutorial for EU4 and Victoria 2? I played HOI4, and i hoped i would therefore know how to play those other games (wrong!)

Quill18 has a good tutorial here, it's a bit outdated now but most of it all still applies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaLP7m_g5Q4&list=PLs3acGYgI1-uWvHEhlIvx-vzsX0vhMOZj
 

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
All sounding good there so far, the less pointless mechanics in the game the better. Working in some buffs to the Naval ideas as well is great. Curious what changes they're planning for Hungary though to make it notable enough to name the patch after, I don't know much about what happened in that region during this period beyond swapping between the Turks and the Austrians.
Unfortunately, I don't think that naval ideas will ever be as important as the other military ideas, at least not until the developers start making huge improvements to the naval part of the game. I know they made a few changes to naval combat in Mare Nostrum, but it wasn't enough. Naval combat is still somewhat lacking. (I also think it might be a good idea to add a fourth monarch point category focusing solely on trade/navy, splitting it away from diplomatic, but that might be too fundamental a change to make at this point in the game's development).

As for what Hungary patch could imply, I hope they add the ability for foreign powers to intervene in civil wars and internal conflicts - like the Castillian Civil War, except more dynamic.
 

Taffer

Member
This is barely relevant but anyway I read the first Wolf Hall book last year but put off reading the second one. Catherine of Aragon came home in my Castile game: omg is that a spoiler? Checked wikipedia, definitely know what happens to Catherine now. Should have picked the Ottomans.
Oh well, on with the conquest, time to unlock those naval ideas and look at gaf. Wait, Thomas Cromwell advises what?!?
 

The Judge

Member
So I'm going for the 'Sun God' achievement (form Inca and conquer all provinces in South America while embracing all Institutions)... pretty far right now, I think:




I think I can crush Portuguese Brazil in a couple of wars and be fine, as well as colonize the odd missing provinces. Already embraced all Institutions too. Quite amazed at how well it's been going, to be honest.

But... I have three major problems. Spain holds Falkland Islands and Portugal holds St. Helena Islands and Galapagos Islands. They are both superpowers in terms of army and navy (navy especially) which just makes me very worried about it... to top it off I think they're also allies (RIP me).

Do you guys have any suggestions on how to deal with wanting a specific province of a bully? I know you can sell a province to someone... no buying offer? I would take loans and pay it gladly. Either way, I don't know how to tackle this problem yet other than just winging it after declaring war. I can't seem to fabricate claims on them either, apparently. Any suggestions? :(
 
How do you guys get through CK2?

I like the game, but I can't finish it. I keep getting fed up. Either it takes ages to expand or once you have gotten ahead, its very difficult to fail.
 

Thraktor

Member
So I'm going for the 'Sun God' achievement (form Inca and conquer all provinces in South America while embracing all Institutions)... pretty far right now, I think:




I think I can crush Portuguese Brazil in a couple of wars and be fine, as well as colonize the odd missing provinces. Already embraced all Institutions too. Quite amazed at how well it's been going, to be honest.

But... I have three major problems. Spain holds Falkland Islands and Portugal holds St. Helena Islands and Galapagos Islands. They are both superpowers in terms of army and navy (navy especially) which just makes me very worried about it... to top it off I think they're also allies (RIP me).

Do you guys have any suggestions on how to deal with wanting a specific province of a bully? I know you can sell a province to someone... no buying offer? I would take loans and pay it gladly. Either way, I don't know how to tackle this problem yet other than just winging it after declaring war. I can't seem to fabricate claims on them either, apparently. Any suggestions? :(

Unfortunately you can't offer to buy provinces, which would have been very useful a great number of times in the past for me. You can threaten war over a province you've got a claim on, but you generally have to be quite a lot bigger than the country you're threatening for that to work.

It would be worthwhile going out of your way to get allies with decent navies. Britain and France seem like the most likely targets for that. Obviously you'll want to max out relations with them, but building up your army and navy to their maximum size, and getting land close to (but not bordering) them will also help your chances of getting an alliance.

It's worth keeping track of how many transports your enemies have in their navies, as well. A country may have 200k troops, but if they only have 10 transports then you can easily deal with each stack as it lands and their superior numbers become a lot less important. Similarly, as you want to take a couple of islands, you'll want to make sure you have enough transports yourself to land all your troops quickly.

You can declare war while you're got troops sitting in transports on sea or coast tiles, so if you're worried about naval battles just get your army sitting on ships on the coast next to St Helena and/or Galapagos and start landing them immediately when you declare war. They'll take about a month to land, then about a month to take the province, then you can dock your transports in the port. If Spain/Portugal's navy is in Europe, then that should be enough time to take the islands and dock your fleets without fighting a single naval battle (almost certainly so for Galapagos).

The final piece of advice (which pretty much always applies in EU4), is to wait until they're fighting in another big war which drains their manpower and pushes up their war exhaustion. If they're already fighting (say) the HRE or the Ottomans in Europe, they're going to be a lot less willing to send troops down to St Helena to fight over a single province, and the high war exhaustion allows you to peace out quicker.

Regarding claims, one of the idea groups (either Exploration or Expansion, I think) allows you to get claims on colonial provinces, which should include both Galapagos and St Helena. (Edit: and Falklands)
 

The Judge

Member
Unfortunately you can't offer to buy provinces, which would have been very useful a great number of times in the past for me. You can threaten war over a province you've got a claim on, but you generally have to be quite a lot bigger than the country you're threatening for that to work.

It would be worthwhile going out of your way to get allies with decent navies. Britain and France seem like the most likely targets for that. Obviously you'll want to max out relations with them, but building up your army and navy to their maximum size, and getting land close to (but not bordering) them will also help your chances of getting an alliance.

It's worth keeping track of how many transports your enemies have in their navies, as well. A country may have 200k troops, but if they only have 10 transports then you can easily deal with each stack as it lands and their superior numbers become a lot less important. Similarly, as you want to take a couple of islands, you'll want to make sure you have enough transports yourself to land all your troops quickly.

You can declare war while you're got troops sitting in transports on sea or coast tiles, so if you're worried about naval battles just get your army sitting on ships on the coast next to St Helena and/or Galapagos and start landing them immediately when you declare war. They'll take about a month to land, then about a month to take the province, then you can dock your transports in the port. If Spain/Portugal's navy is in Europe, then that should be enough time to take the islands and dock your fleets without fighting a single naval battle (almost certainly so for Galapagos).

The final piece of advice (which pretty much always applies in EU4), is to wait until they're fighting in another big war which drains their manpower and pushes up their war exhaustion. If they're already fighting (say) the HRE or the Ottomans in Europe, they're going to be a lot less willing to send troops down to St Helena to fight over a single province, and the high war exhaustion allows you to peace out quicker.

Regarding claims, one of the idea groups (either Exploration or Expansion, I think) allows you to get claims on colonial provinces, which should include both Galapagos and St Helena. (Edit: and Falklands)

Thanks a lot for the elaborate reply!

As it is right now, England has "they want your provinces" unfortunately, which gives an insurmountable negative relation with them, so it's going to be tough allying with a big navy nation. France has been almost wiped out of existence, hah. This playthrough looks like blob-land all around.

On my last session I actually had a very good chance when I supported Portuguese Mexico Independence (and they had a very big navy and army), and I even got to capture both Galapagos and St Helena, but not enough war score to get them for myself in peace negotiations. Very frustrating! And right after we won, Mexico got "want your provinces" penalty also, so I couldn't even enjoy the new strong ally.

Sadly, I think I might be running out of time. It's already around 1783, so less than 40 years left, and my last ditch strategy is to pour thousands of gold into navy buildings to raise my navy force limit and build a huge fleet to try and be able to stand up for myself, but I'm honestly not very confident it will be enough. My force limit right now is around 90, Spain is like 400... I might have a failure in my hands up until the end.

But I'll definitely try to work some way into finding a strong ally and luring them in. As for your last advice (the colonial province claim idea), I'm not sure if it applies because those islands are actually a part of their realm, and not the colony name they usually have such as 'Portuguese Mexico', it actually says Portugal.

Tough times ahead, pray for the sun gods guys. 20+ hours and the goal is not looking very likely. :(


 

ag-my001

Member
How do you guys get through CK2?

I like the game, but I can't finish it. I keep getting fed up. Either it takes ages to expand or once you have gotten ahead, its very difficult to fail.
That's true of many paradox games. The majority of games last something like 100-150 years. Pick a goal that looks fun and go for it. Once done, see if anything else looks like fun. If not, start over and try something else.
 
That's true of many paradox games. The majority of games last something like 100-150 years. Pick a goal that looks fun and go for it. Once done, see if anything else looks like fun. If not, start over and try something else.

Fair enough. I'm going to give the game another shot.

I'm thinking 768 starting date, start as a Greek Count within the Byzantine Empire and form the Crimean Kingdom.
 
It is rare i feel too op in EUIV. The best games are those that when i do feel op, it is brilliant because i earned it over 400 years or so.

Tuscany 2 province ministate to ruling from the Baltic to the Red Sea yo. 1000000000 soldiers feels good after beating up the Austrians and Ottomans.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
I have played Paradox-games since the original Europa Universalis, and i still havent finished a single game ever. Like was written above, i start with a goal, complete it, then see if there is anything else that looks interesting to do. If not, Im starting over.
 

ag-my001

Member
I am lucky that in my current game I've had some interesting things happen that keep me playing, even though I've snowballed. I've got an empire that stretches from Ireland to Egypt, with insane border gore throughout. I made my own mod for reduced vassal limit, so even as emperor I'm only allowed ten vassals. This means lots of kings who get uppity. I'm saving up culture points to get Majesty 5 for imperial admin, while dealing with all the Catholic orders that are propping up their remaining kingdoms. I'm at the mercy of the Fylkir's choices for GHW (hence Egypt), and the Jomsvikings ended up under a vassal, so I can't raise them. Meanwhile in the east, Seljuk has a proper sprawl going. All this while taking any duchy will raise my that by 50%.

So I've still got:

1) Survive vassals long enough to become a true empire.

2) Wipe out the last two Karling kingdoms and make prettier borders.

3) Take on Seljuk for at least one major continental wide war.
 

Thraktor

Member
Thanks a lot for the elaborate reply!

As it is right now, England has "they want your provinces" unfortunately, which gives an insurmountable negative relation with them, so it's going to be tough allying with a big navy nation. France has been almost wiped out of existence, hah. This playthrough looks like blob-land all around.

On my last session I actually had a very good chance when I supported Portuguese Mexico Independence (and they had a very big navy and army), and I even got to capture both Galapagos and St Helena, but not enough war score to get them for myself in peace negotiations. Very frustrating! And right after we won, Mexico got "want your provinces" penalty also, so I couldn't even enjoy the new strong ally.

Sadly, I think I might be running out of time. It's already around 1783, so less than 40 years left, and my last ditch strategy is to pour thousands of gold into navy buildings to raise my navy force limit and build a huge fleet to try and be able to stand up for myself, but I'm honestly not very confident it will be enough. My force limit right now is around 90, Spain is like 400... I might have a failure in my hands up until the end.

But I'll definitely try to work some way into finding a strong ally and luring them in. As for your last advice (the colonial province claim idea), I'm not sure if it applies because those islands are actually a part of their realm, and not the colony name they usually have such as 'Portuguese Mexico', it actually says Portugal.

Tough times ahead, pray for the sun gods guys. 20+ hours and the goal is not looking very likely. :(



Yeah, France might not be too useful in that game!

The lack of claims is a bit annoying, I'm not 100% sure how that feature is supposed to work. Are there any vassals you can release who have claims on any of the islands? If so (and it's a reasonably small vassal) you should have enough time to release the vassal, use its claims to declare war, occupy the islands, avoid other fights wherever possible, and simply wait for ticking war score until you can claim all three (they shouldn't be much war score each). Then, 10 years after the vassal has been released you can integrate it again (which may take a few years depending on the size of the vassal).

Regarding naval limits, keep in mind that heavies are far stronger than any other ships, so if you can afford it, then the ideal composition is enough transports to take the islands and then all heavies for the remainder. Hell, if you can afford to go over the naval cap you might as well, as it's not that expensive. Again, keep in mind their number of transports, and compose land regiments that are big enough to take out the largest possible landing party (two or three for the mainland, and then ideally one each for the islands). If, let's say they have 30 transports, and you set St. Helena as the war goal, then if you drop a well-designed 50 stack on St Helena (30 infantry/cav, 20 cannons), and are at relatively equal tech, then it will be effectively impossible for them to retake the island, given your numerical advantage and the -2 penalty they'll get from landing from sea. You'll likely take some attrition on St Helena (it's unlikely they'll have developed it enough for a 50 land force limit, although if you have a leader with high manoeuvre it'll help), but you get a guaranteed ticking warscore, plus bonus warscore every time they try to retake the island. So long as the rest of the war is pretty even, that's probably enough for all three islands in one war.

Plus, if you do it while they're engaged in another war in Europe, they may not even bother fighting you over the islands (particularly true if they're losing their European war). Attacking while they're in another war also decreases the chances of their allies joining, which should make things a bit easier.

That's true of many paradox games. The majority of games last something like 100-150 years. Pick a goal that looks fun and go for it. Once done, see if anything else looks like fun. If not, start over and try something else.

Particularly so for CK2, with the expansions you can now play for almost 600 years, whereas I feel CK2 works best on smaller timescales, given the focus on individual characters. Some people just play a single character until he dies, or you can go the "quantum leap" route and just randomly pick a new character each time your one dies (within the same saved game).

Paradox's achievements also tend to work pretty well if you're looking for a goal to work towards. They even have a reasonable number which can be completed in relatively short timescales (and some, in EU4 in particular, which have to be completed in a short timescale).
 

TeddyBoy

Member
So a new Hearts of Iron 4 expansion was announced, in short everyone is hating it for being a terribly small expansion that basically only adds focus trees for Hungary, Romania, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. It'll be $9.99 and no release date has been announced so far.


You can read more here.
 

Xando

Member
So a new Hearts of Iron 4 expansion was announced, in short everyone is hating it for being a terribly small expansion that basically only adds focus trees for Hungary, Romania, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. It'll be $9.99 and no release date has been announced so far.



You can read more here.
The money milking they're doing with HoI4 is kinda ridiculous. I like that they're redoing air warfare(let's face it the current system is pretty bad) (also seems to be in the free patch) but everything else is basically a 10$ mod i have had for 6 months now.
 
The money milking they're doing with HoI4 is kinda ridiculous. I like that they're redoing air warfare(let's face it the current system is pretty bad) (also seems to be in the free patch) but everything else is basically a 10$ mod i have had for 6 months now.

That's the problem with Paradox's DLC model, the paid content largely feels like a tax to subsidize the free updates. Hell, they even advertise stuff that's free as being part of the paid expansions to really confuse the issue.
 

ag-my001

Member
My guess is they feel mixing the content (if done correctly) increases the number of DLC sold. Without Old Gods, Vikings can still raid you, but you can only be the raider if you pay up. Without Way of Life, NPCs will still get lifestyle traits, but you can't.

They still need to have enough content, though.
 

Xando

Member
That's the problem with Paradox's DLC model, the paid content largely feels like a tax to subsidize the free updates. Hell, they even advertise stuff that's free as being part of the paid expansions to really confuse the issue.

It feels like they push it with HoI 4. Usually they atleast have some decent system addition for their expansions while with HoI4 they mostly pump out focus trees.
 
So a new Hearts of Iron 4 expansion was announced, in short everyone is hating it for being a terribly small expansion that basically only adds focus trees for Hungary, Romania, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. It'll be $9.99 and no release date has been announced so far.



You can read more here.

It adds focus trees, sprites, new music, new portraits, and two new mechanics that have been announced, equipment conversion (turn surplus old tanks into spart or tank destroyers) and licensed production. Axis nations get a new type of subject called a reichskomissariat with altered mechanics also.

It's small but to say it's just focus trees is not true. The focus trees paradox does also beat the shit out of the amateur modded ones in balance and complexity 99.999% of the time.

It feels like they push it with HoI 4. Usually they atleast have some decent system addition for their expansions while with HoI4 they mostly pump out focus trees.

I mean it depends right? There have been some bad DLCs. American Dream added minor cosmetic stuff and events that only fired when you picked the 1776 scenario. Garbage. New idea groups and national focuses were included in several EU4 DLCs... stuff you can mod in. They had the fucking balls to charge 15 bucks for Conquest of Paradise. Art of War was the first truly good expansion pack but cost $20 and came after several others. Then they follow it up with el dorado for 15 again. LOL.

The sticking point here is people seem to be unusually mad that focus trees are considered worthy of DLC inclusion since you can in principle create your own through modding. But on the other hand, focus trees are implicitly modular and the game works with or without minors having them. Would you rather they make focus trees part of the DLC, or would you rather they make the air warfare mechanics overhaul part of the DLC? They're giving that away for free. They gave you a basic battle log for free in the last DLC alongside new mechanics changes for garrisons and stuff like cosmetic tags.

If you don't feel the DLC is worth the money, that's not really a problem because they're giving you a lot of good stuff for free and you can just wait for deep discount to get the 1-2 small things you do want from them.
 

Xando

Member
The sticking point here is people seem to be unusually mad that focus trees are considered worthy of DLC inclusion since you can in principle create your own through modding. But on the other hand, focus trees are implicitly modular and the game works with or without minors having them. Would you rather they make focus trees part of the DLC, or would you rather they make the air warfare mechanics overhaul part of the DLC? They're giving that away for free. They gave you a basic battle log for free in the last DLC alongside new mechanics changes for garrisons and stuff like cosmetic tags.

If you don't feel the DLC is worth the money, that's not really a problem because they're giving you a lot of good stuff for free and you can just wait for deep discount to get the 1-2 small things you do want from them.
I see what you're saying but i think they shouldn't put as much focus on the focus trees for their "expansions" as they do. If they want to add more trees fine but don't sell them as expansions but rather focus sets (For example a balkan pack) and use expansions for larger stuff like adding a stability system or maybe espionage.
 
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