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Shouta · Feb 29, 2012

Devolution said:
Yeah but pussies can take more punishment than balls and yet balls = courage, pussies = cowards.

Probably not the correct answer but if you twist the thinking a little bit,

balls = courage because they're fragile and you'd have to be courageous to actually put them on the line.

pussy = coward because having one means your baby producers aren't in a place where they'd get ripped and mangled quite as easily.

...Eh, I got nothing.

Anyway, on the topic, there is no reason for sexual harassment and racism in the FGC. You can be loud, you can be rude, and you can be friendly without them.

PsychoSoldier · Feb 29, 2012

DryEyeRelief said:
Only when it's informed.

But sometimes people who have no loyalties to the people involved are the best ones to look at a situation like this, especially when it involves basic human stuff like this.

CoffeeJanitor · Feb 29, 2012

Threi said:
That and it's hard to accept criticism from people who have likely never had had any sort of interaction at all with the FGC if by chance they hadn't have stumbled on this incident and likely won't care at all when it's all said and done. And then those in the community that have spoken on it, have done so not as a means to attempt to improve the community, but rather to make it more ideal to profit from.

It is completely right to inform and push for change in the FGC. But I can understand if it comes off as someone stopping by on their high horse ready to push their social agenda on others, and then leave when they get bored.

...but if it promotes someone inside the FGC to step and say "hey, this needs to stop once and for all" then it's worth it. We will see. It would be cool to see an actual improvement, and those who started the fuss come back and possibly write a followup on how the community improved.

The "FGC" isn't some super exclusive special society. Its a group of people who play video games, some of which who are extremely immature and/or do not know how to interact with women.

I don't think there's anything hard to understand about the situation.

Charoncaori · Feb 29, 2012

QisTopTier said:
Insulting a crippled person about being crippled and having no chance at the game is just trash talk? Oh okay.

I'm not talking from a regular perspective of everyday gamer dude number what ever, I'm talking from life experience about people in general being assholes because "I'm Different". It's the same shit for girls in the community its the same thing for ricky ortiz.

People are immature assholes, but that's not everyone. The problem is the assholes are normally the loudest.

No that's a huge misunderstanding, I was trying to get the point across that you were super downplaying my message as insignificant because I'm a guy so it's standard trash talk.

Eh life deals random cards for everyone, I deal with it.

I wasn't trying to imply that what's trash talk for guys is unfair and sexism for girls. I just disagree that ANYONE should have to shrug off that sort of insult. I'm not downplaying your message because you're a guy, I'm disagreeing with you. I don't think that sort of person should be the one given a voice for the community, like Aris has. I'm sorry I came off that way.

QisTopTier · Feb 29, 2012

Charoncaori said:
I wasn't trying to imply that what's trash talk for guys is unfair and sexism for girls. I just disagree that ANYONE should have to shrug off that sort of insult. I'm not downplaying your message because you're a guy, I'm disagreeing with you. I don't think that sort of person should be the one given a voice for the community, like Aris has. I'm sorry I came off that way.

Oh no I completely agree that he shouldn't be given spotlight for anything. But everyone eventually has to learn how to shrug things off in life. Life always throws random GOD DAMN IT ALL moments at you and sometimes the best thing you can do with out letting things get worse is shrug it off. Specially when nothing good comes of not shrugging it off.

This whole situation on the other hand is not what I'm talking about when Im talking about this, I was simply referfing to your original post about being treated with disrespect.

Caerith · Feb 29, 2012

DryEyeRelief said:
Only when it's informed.

Considering that the subject at hand is sexual harassment, how does membership to the exclusive FGC inform one's opinions on basic human decency? Tekken doesn't grant esoteric insight into ethics.

Charoncaori · Feb 29, 2012

QisTopTier said:
I was simply saying it's not right for that type of trash talk, but it's also up to the victims to stay strong through it if they truly love what they are doing and to not let it get them down. Random jack ass number what ever shouldn't mean shit to you.

It's great that you're able to deal with criticism like that, my skin isn't that thick. I have a bad case of "someone's wrong on the internet!" syndrome. That's part of why I don't like playing too many fighting games. I do enjoy watching them, though.

QisTopTier · Feb 29, 2012

Charoncaori said:
It's great that you're able to deal with criticism like that, my skin isn't that thick. I have a bad case of "someone's wrong on the internet!" syndrome. That's part of why I don't like playing too many fighting games. I do enjoy watching them, though.

I think I have my brother to thank for that, as he was an "I'm always right type guy." I learned to not give a shit at a young age haha.

The thing doesn't just have to do with fighting games though, video game communities in general are very sexist. The best thing you can do is just do your best to enjoy the game and picture the faces the douchebags make when you do better than them that they make out of disgust at themselves for "losing to a girl". Most of the hate is fear, the sexisim is fear, a lot of guys have some macho mindset that girls can't win at things guys can, rubbing that shit in their face raw is the best thing you can do. Heck even if you are not that great and you can't beat every single guy who talks massive amounts of shit, or land a head shot on them every time and so on. The fact it does happen at all, makes those types RAGE. :3

alstein · Feb 29, 2012

Mahonay said:
Stop it. You're going to create some kind of paradox.

No, we're going to get Dhim vids posted up in here. I love Dhim's stuff, but it's not for everyone- or most likely GAF.

Trash talk is part of the community, but if your only trash talk is misogyny, you're a scrub tier trash talker.

Vodh · Feb 29, 2012

You know what's even more revolting? They are playing a game that's about fighting each other and it encourages violence! Oh gawd!

Yeah, Aris can be kinda creepy, yeah, sometimes he can overdo a joke to a point where the only 'funny' thing about it is him being creepy and that can be irritating. Yeah, he should receive a slap on the wrist, which I gather he has. And yeah, he's a dick for not noticing when he should stop because he's not being funny anymore and he's upsetting someone.

But it's ridiculous that people essentially claim that Miranda's mood had everything to do with the harrasment, and nothing with how bad she was compared to virtually anyone else on the show. Pretty sure it would be easier to eat a mildly offensive joke if she won a match. And it's so much easier to blame your crappy mood on being harrassed rather than on the fact that everyone thinks you're free and they are right. Some people need to get over it and stop treating mild case of bullying as if it was a rape or something.

Airan · Feb 29, 2012

Ah christ Aris, I thought he was a cool dude. Way to make the FGC look bad

LabouredSubterfuge · Feb 29, 2012

Vodh said:
You know what's even more revolting? They are playing a game that's about fighting each other and it encourages violence! Oh gawd!

Yeah, Aris can be kinda creepy, yeah, sometimes he can overdo a joke to a point where the only 'funny' thing about it is him being creepy and that can be irritating. Yeah, he should receive a slap on the wrist, which I gather he has. And yeah, he's a dick for not noticing when he should stop because he's not being funny anymore and he's upsetting someone.

But it's ridiculous that people essentially claim that Miranda's mood had everything to do with the harrasment, and nothing with how bad she was compared to virtually anyone else on the show. Pretty sure it would be easier to eat a mildly offensive joke if she won a match. And it's so much easier to blame your crappy mood on being harrassed rather than on the fact that everyone thinks you're free and they are right. Some people need to get over it and stop treating mild case of bullying as if it was a rape or something.

Golden

PsychoSoldier · Feb 29, 2012

Vodh said:
You know what's even more revolting? They are playing a game that's about fighting each other and it encourages violence! Oh gawd!

Yeah, Aris can be kinda creepy, yeah, sometimes he can overdo a joke to a point where the only 'funny' thing about it is him being creepy and that can be irritating. Yeah, he should receive a slap on the wrist, which I gather he has. And yeah, he's a dick for not noticing when he should stop because he's not being funny anymore and he's upsetting someone.

But it's ridiculous that people essentially claim that Miranda's mood had everything to do with the harrasment, and nothing with how bad she was compared to virtually anyone else on the show. Pretty sure it would be easier to eat a mildly offensive joke if she won a match. And it's so much easier to blame your crappy mood on being harrassed rather than on the fact that everyone thinks you're free and they are right. Some people need to get over it and stop treating mild case of bullying as if it was a rape or something.

Have, have you watched any of the videos that were linked?

If you think that what happened on that second day was just mild bullying and not fairly blatant sexual harassment then I really don't know what to say.

Charoncaori · Feb 29, 2012

QisTopTier said:
The thing doesn't just have to do with fighting games though, video game communities in general are very sexist. The best thing you can do is just do your best to enjoy the game and picture the faces the douchebags make when you do better than them that they make out of disgust at themselves for "losing to a girl". Most of the hate is fear, the sexisim fear, a lot of guys have some macho mindset that girls can't win at things guys can, rubbing that shit in their face raw is the best thing you can do. Heck even if you are not that great and you can't beat every single guy who talks massive amounts of shit, or land a head shot on them every time and so on. The fact it does happen at all, makes those types RAGE. :3

Yeah, I've run into sexism a lot playing video games in general, but video gaming has become so widespread now that it's easier to avoid people like that entirely. The vast majority of adults I've met at gaming events are mature and kind. I've found it's mostly only a real problem in small, insular communities.

Boken · Feb 29, 2012

Never been into the fighting game scene but I guess it's just a bunch of nerds who obnoxiously throw around insults and slurs to make themselves feel badass?

Rofl, now I know why the fighting game scene sucks.

Threi · Feb 29, 2012

Airan said:
Ah christ Aris, I thought he was a cool dude. Way to make the FGC look bad

It actually really sucks that Valle's great coaching and welcoming attitude gets completely overshadowed.

(interesting tidbit: Aris essentially complained that that's what changed about Valle over the years previously, right before the show started. Wonder what spurred his "change"?

getting older and gaining some damn sense

)

Boken said:
Never been into the fighting game scene but I guess it's just a bunch of nerds who obnoxiously throw around insults and slurs to make themselves feel badass?

Rofl, now I know why the fighting game scene sucks.

cmon man.

Aedile · Feb 29, 2012

Caerith said:
Considering that the subject at hand is sexual harassment, how does membership to the exclusive FGC inform one's opinions on basic human decency? Tekken doesn't grant esoteric insight into ethics.

The FGC has a special dispensation that makes sexual harassment, racism and homophobia OK. YJDK.

Actually, that's sort of true. Because fighting games have been a comparatively small scene in the gaming world, nobody's really given a shit about what people in it do. When the scene has been more prominent, i.e. EVO, it usually puts its best foot forward--except when Aris has been on the mic, come to think of it. Cross Assault was probably the first time when the community did something that would attract attention outside the bubble while engaging in very inside-the-bubble behavior. The results were predictable. Sure, most people realize that the rules of the real world apply to them at a pretty early age, but better late than never. Call it a teachable moment.

Wallach · Feb 29, 2012

Threi said:
It actually really sucks that Valle's great coaching and welcoming attitude gets completely overshadowed.

No shit. I feel pretty bad for Valle because he has tried so hard to actually make this work.

Sblargh · Feb 29, 2012

Threi said:
It actually really sucks that Valle's great coaching and welcoming attitude gets completely overshadowed.

It does suck. Valle was one of the best things in this show.
I remember when Valle started to figure out how alpha counters worked, you could see the machinations and learning and sharing. Anyway, Valle was great.

alstein · Feb 29, 2012

I should explain a bit why I have a minority opinion in the FGC.

I've done some things before that hurt some people in the past, I was wrong to do so, and I do feel bad about it. There's nothing I can do about it except change. I know I've been in a dick in the past, though it was being dumb and not knowing better. Also, another game I used to play back in the old, old days- a game that a lot of old-school GAF liked in the past, their community got a huge blow from misogyny. The funny thing was one of the girl players I knew from that game, I ran into ten years later running a girl gamer site, that another friend of mine from somewhere else was part of. She remembered me at least a little bit.

Secondly, about a year ago, there was a smaller-scale flareup, and I asked a couple of female players/game journos what they would want folks to do in the FGC. They said it was to try and make clear that this sort of behavior would not be tolerated. One of those persons is still at least somewhat part of the FGC (she was at Southtown arcade in the past month) I decided to take that advice.

A lot of the FGC isn't very good with women, including myself, though that's not the entire FGC- obviously, as many are married.

Finally, I came to the conclusion that if stuff like this was a necessary part of the community, I don't need to be a part of that community. There's enough good communities I've been part of, that I know this stuff isn't needed.

QisTopTier · Feb 29, 2012

Sblargh said:
It does suck. Valle was one of the best things in this show.
I remember when Valle started to figure out how alpha counters worked, you could see the machinations and learning and sharing. Anyway, Valle was great.

There is a reason spookys stream always had more viewers

Charoncaori said:
Yeah, I've run into sexism a lot playing video games in general, but video gaming has become so widespread now that it's easier to avoid people like that entirely. The vast majority of adults I've met at gaming events are mature and kind. I've found it's mostly only a real problem in small, insular communities.

Well it's a problem period, half the time it's just behind the scenes. I say give it 5 or 10 more years in general and things will be a ton better.

Boken · Feb 29, 2012

Threi said:
It actually really sucks that Valle's great coaching and welcoming attitude gets completely overshadowed.

(interesting tidbit: Aris essentially complained that that's what changed about Valle over the years previously, right before the show started. Wonder what spurred his "change"?

getting older and gaining some damn sense

)

cmon man.

Reading everything Aris says about the community, is there any other interpretation of it?

Charoncaori · Feb 29, 2012

QisTopTier said:
Well it's a problem period, half the time it's just behind the scenes. I say give it 5 or 10 more years in general and things will be a ton better.

I hope so.

DryEyeRelief · Feb 29, 2012

Caerith said:
Considering that the subject at hand is sexual harassment, how does membership to the exclusive FGC inform one's opinions on basic human decency? Tekken doesn't grant esoteric insight into ethics.

It doesn't?

PsychoSoldier said:
But sometimes people who have no loyalties to the people involved are the best ones to look at a situation like this, especially when it involves basic human stuff like this.

That is a reason for people to listen to others who are different. What you're trying to excuse is distance from the situation and making rushed conclusions. If you're arguing for impartiality, you certainly won't get it there, even if you personally agree with what's being said.

duckroll · Feb 29, 2012

Threi said:
(interesting tidbit: Aris essentially complained that that's what changed about Valle over the years previously, right before the show started. Wonder what spurred his "change"?

getting older and gaining some damn sense

)

Really? Wtf? That just shows the huge gap of maturity between Aris and Valle right there. :/

Threi · Feb 29, 2012

Boken said:
Reading everything Aris says about the community, is there any other interpretation of it?

I say that the community is full of racists.

About 95% of em.

duckroll said:
Really? Wtf? That just shows the huge gap of maturity between Aris and Valle right there. :/

Could have been him joking, or not, but yeah it was on one of the streams right before the show started

alstein · Feb 29, 2012

QisTopTier said:
Well it's a problem period, half the time it's just behind the scenes. I say give it 5 or 10 more years in general and things will be a ton better.

Not fair at all to the folks who wanted to wait 5 or 10 years.

I'll say this- go in a gay marriage thread and say they should wait 5 or 10 years.

Or folks who are currently being victimized by stuff similar to this- it's not acceptable to say that anywhere else.

Stuff, at least publicly, could be cleaned up very fast if the right folks wished it.

QisTopTier · Feb 29, 2012

duckroll said:
Really? Wtf? That just shows the huge gap of maturity between Aris and Valle right there. :/

The WNF before that had a very long talk between valle and aris about the past how things used to be and the direction things were heading.

alstein said:
Not fair at all to the folks who wanted to wait 5 or 10 years.

I'll say this- go in a gay marriage thread and say they should wait 5 or 10 years.

Or folks who are currently being victimized by stuff similar to this- it's not acceptable to say that anywhere else.

Stuff, at least publicly, could be cleaned up very fast if the right folks wished it.

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about peoples mindsets being non stupid. Not people having to hold emotions in.

The whole wait 5 or 10 years thing doesn't mean oh things wont change anytime soon SUFFER NOW KAY. I saying in due time no one will have to put up with it. Are anti gay assholes going to suddenly stop being anti gay? Hell no they are not. 5 or 10 years from now? Guess what those same assholes are still the same way for the most part, but now.... there are more people with a non asshole view on things.

Social change takes time

duckroll · Feb 29, 2012

QisTopTier said:
The WNF before that had a very long talk between valle and aris about the past how things used to be and the direction things were heading.

Is there a video of this on Youtube or something? I'm interested in watching it.

Feature · Feb 29, 2012

Wow that dude's creepy, him looking like a phedofile gragas from LoL doesn't make it any better...

QisTopTier · Feb 29, 2012

duckroll said:
Is there a video of this on Youtube or something? I'm interested in watching it.

Give me a bit I'll go try and dig it up. *it's in post below*

Vodh · Feb 29, 2012

PsychoSoldier said:
Have, have you watched any of the videos that were linked?

If you think that what happened on that second day was just mild bullying and not fairly blatant sexual harassment then I really don't know what to say.

Searched the entire thread, didn't find day2 videos. All that I have seen linked is the day1 stuff - I've seen the stream and watched random parts of the recordings, but I was admittedly more interested in actual games so I wasn't really searching for the drama parts. So far nothing struck me as being worse than the day1 stuff, but to make sure we're on the same page here, wold you mind directing me to the videos you're referring to?

QisTopTier · Feb 29, 2012

duckroll said:
Is there a video of this on Youtube or something? I'm interested in watching it.

http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/308726436

Jump around to 1h26m

listen to earlier stuff to hear "stories" and such.

Aris just tweeted this:

I understand that I said some controversial statements on the Cross Assault show, and a lot of people are deeply offended with what was said. When I made these statements, I was very heated as I felt that the culture of a scene I have been a part of for over 15 years was being threatened. I unfortunately used extreme examples in the heat of the moment and feel that my statements don’t actually communicate how I feel. This is similar to what people say when they get into an argument with their girlfriend, and they say things that they deeply regret. I sincerely apologise if I have offended anyone. My statements do not reflect those of Capcom or myself. The last thing I want to do is get them in trouble for giving me and the fighting game community the opportunity to have an amazing show like this.

What I was trying to communicate is that mild hostility has always been a defining characteristic of the fighting game scene. Back when arcades were more prevalent, people didn’t like newcomers, and players needed to fight and pay their dues to get respect. The debate I was in was with a person who supported professional leagues, who have intent to censor the community to make it more accessible. I think the sink or swim mentality is something that defined our culture, and if that succeeds it removes something which has been important to help create some of the best fighting game players of our time. I was unfortunately unable to make this point clearly. Again, I am deeply sorry for offending anyone. This was a combination of the people taking things out of context and my own inability in the heat of the moment to defend myself and the community I have loved for over 15 years.

Aris

Pretty much says the same thing he says in the WNF video 2 weeks ago

CountAntonius · Feb 29, 2012

From Aris

I understand that I said some controversial statements on the Cross Assault show, and a lot of people are deeply offended with what was said. When I made these statements, I was very heated as I felt that the culture of a scene I have been a part of for over 15 years was being threatened. I unfortunately used extreme examples in the heat of the moment and feel that my statements dont actually communicate how I feel. This is similar to what people say when they get into an argument with their girlfriend, and they say things that they deeply regret. I sincerely apologise if I have offended anyone. My statements do not reflect those of Capcom or myself. The last thing I want to do is get them in trouble for giving me and the fighting game community the opportunity to have an amazing show like this.

What I was trying to communicate is that mild hostility has always been a defining characteristic of the fighting game scene. Back when arcades were more prevalent, people didnt like newcomers, and players needed to fight and pay their dues to get respect. The debate I was in was with a person who supported professional leagues, who have intent to censor the community to make it more accessible. I think the sink or swim mentality is something that defined our culture, and if that succeeds it removes something which has been important to help create some of the best fighting game players of our time. I was unfortunately unable to make this point clearly. Again, I am deeply sorry for offending anyone. This was a combination of the people taking things out of context and my own inability in the heat of the moment to defend myself and the community I have loved for over 15 years.

duckroll · Feb 29, 2012

Vodh, before you continue to shame yourself by defending Aris, I think you should carefully consider his detailed comments about why he thinks all this shit he is doing is fine and acceptable, in an interview he chose to give to express that he's not the bad guy here when he absolutely is.

This isn't just about him giving Miranda a hard time, but it is about him being a total douchebag while speaking for the fighting game community to the press, and representing (misrepresenting I hope) the entire community as one where being unwelcoming is a good thing, and furthermore, "sexual harassment is part of a culture".

If you think that his behavior is really totally okay, and that no one should be giving him a hard time other than a "slap on the wrist", then not only are you condoning his sort of behavior, but you are encouraging this sort of behavior to continue within the community. Think about it.

GotchaForce · Feb 29, 2012

duckroll said:
Really? Wtf? That just shows the huge gap of maturity between Aris and Valle right there. :/

Check the end of last week's WNF discussion, Kadey myself and a few others were lolling about Aris telling Valle how he's softened over the years, the Valle of old would be like (to anyone coming into the arcade) "I'm gonna destroy you, I hate you". Where now he's like, "you want to learn an uppercut? I'll teach you an uppercut". To me, Valle was lolling and agreeing, but it kinda seemed like Miranda in that he was going along with it but never agreed with it. He said "yeah, back in the day I was a dick..." but never went into what has changed (the scene getting bigger, him becoming a mentor while Aris is a funny but obnoxious guy with a podcast and prominent in the Tekken scene).

Anyways, I'll re-iterate a bit what I posted before. Was just listening to the Bombcast and Patrick Klepeck said pretty much what I posted, that Aris and his mentality is like the people up in arms when the Wii and Iphone games were coming out that "hardcore" games would die. It's silly. We'll always have hardcore games and we'll always have hardcore streams, podcasts and shows keeping it "real". You come from that and want it to stay that way that's fine, you'll always have scenes for that. But if I don't want to be constantly reminded how largely immature the gaming community is I'll listen to UltraChen and SKill talk about the game instead of dumb internet shit. I love Gears of War. I love Plants vs Zombies. I want both. We're gonna have both. End of story.

Boken · Feb 29, 2012

Threi said:
I say that the community is full of racists.

About 95% of em.

Could have been him joking, or not, but yeah it was on one of the streams right before the show started

The difference is that you're trying to prove a point and he's just talking about the community

duckroll · Feb 29, 2012

QisTopTier said:
http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/308726436

Jump around to 1h26m

listen to earlier stuff to hear "stories" and such.

Thanks. This is a pretty good watch. I don't think that looks entirely bad for Aris other than the fact that he keeps lamenting the "old days" and arguing for people having thicker skin, while Valle is mostly smiling and just trying to nod along, but he realizes that adapting to a more welcoming environment is just the -right- thing to do.

Sblargh · Feb 29, 2012

CountAntonius said:
From Aris

He sounds like a kind of middle class that thinks they have a basic right and freedom to use slurs. I don't think he is defending "the culture of a scene I have been a part of for over 15 years", but the white culture that is used to talk down to minorities.

I'm judging from this text. I think he feels he is defending the "Fighting game community", but I think that the subtext here is the old guy who really wants to keep saying the "N" word. I don't think it is an isolated issue with the "FGC".

I kind of hate this "thick skin" talk. It is very easy to have thick skin when you are on your own shoes. It's very easy for a white guy to diss racism, for a guy to tell a girl that it is just a joke, etc.

The mentality of "swim or sink" is a lot easier when you own a boat.

SmokyDave · Feb 29, 2012

I'm shocked to find that some socially inept nerds would convey their insecurity through rampant sexism and misogyny.

I was even more shocked to discover that this 'Aris' chap looked exactly like I expected him to.

Sixfortyfive · Feb 29, 2012

Sblargh said:
He sounds like a kind of middle class that thinks they have a basic right and freedom to use slurs. I don't think he is defending "the culture of a scene I have been a part of for over 15 years", but the white culture that is used to talk down to minorities.

I'm judging from this text. I think he feels he is defending the "Fighting game community", but I think that the subtext here is the old guy who really wants to keep saying the "N" word. I don't think it is an isolated issue with the "FGC".

I kind of hate this "thick skin" talk. It is very easy to have thick skin when you are on your own shoes. It's very easy for a white guy to diss racism, for a guy to tell a girl that it is just a joke, etc.

The mentality of "swim or sink" is a lot easier when you own a boat.

Yeah, it's pretty clear that he doesn't get it. He may have no ill intent, but he also seems to lack some pretty basic empathy.

Feature · Feb 29, 2012

Sblargh said:
He sounds like a kind of middle class that thinks they have a basic right and freedom to use slurs. I don't think he is defending "the culture of a scene I have been a part of for over 15 years", but the white culture that is used to talk down to minorities.

I'm judging from this text. I think he feels he is defending the "Fighting game community", but I think that the subtext here is the old guy who really wants to keep saying the "N" word. I don't think it is an isolated issue with the "FGC".

I kind of hate this "thick skin" talk. It is very easy to have thick skin when you are on your own shoes. It's very easy for a white guy to diss racism, for a guy to tell a girl that it is just a joke, etc.

The mentality of "swim or sink" is a lot easier when you own a boat.

Why is that? Because white people almost never deal with racism?

Boken · Feb 29, 2012

White people, dominant race bla bla

Vodh · Feb 29, 2012

duckroll said:
Vodh, before you continue to shame yourself by defending Aris, I think you should carefully consider his detailed comments about why he thinks all this shit he is doing is fine and acceptable, in an interview he chose to give to express that he's not the bad guy here when he absolutely is.

This isn't just about him giving Miranda a hard time, but it is about him being a total douchebag while speaking for the fighting game community to the press, and representing (misrepresenting I hope) the entire community as one where being unwelcoming is a good thing, and furthermore, "sexual harassment is part of a culture".

If you think that his behavior is really totally okay, and that no one should be giving him a hard time other than a "slap on the wrist", then not only are you condoning his sort of behavior, but you are encouraging this sort of behavior to continue within the community. Think about it.

Don't see anything shameful in asking for links. And if you're referring to the earlier post, I really don't see it as defending Aris - i thought i made it pretty clear when I wrote he was kind of creepy and that he's a dick. But that's what I saw happen, and (again, from what I've seen so far) quite a lot of people seem to be blowing things out of proportion, and I don't think that making it a bigger deal than it actually is would be a healthy thing to the community. So once again no, I'm not defending Aris, I'm trying to point out that some people seem to be overreacting, and that Aris was just a part of Miranda's bad experience with Cross Assault, not the whole problem.

And to be clear, I was talking about what he was doing on the stream (that I've seen). The stuff he's saying when he comes out and speaks as a self-proclaimed voice of the community is actually way worse than that imho and this is where the damage to the community could be done - and with regards to that part, I don't think anyone is overreacting.

Hope that cleared things up.

Sblargh · Feb 29, 2012

Feature said:
Why is that? Because white people almost never deal with racism?

Not the same way. White people may get harassed in some very specific enviroment, but they don't lose jobs or are denied bank loans because they are white, for example.

QisTopTier · Feb 29, 2012

duckroll said:
Thanks. This is a pretty good watch. I don't think that looks entirely bad for Aris other than the fact that he keeps lamenting the "old days" and arguing for people having thicker skin, while Valle is mostly smiling and just trying to nod along, but he realizes that adapting to a more welcoming environment is just the -right- thing to do.

I don't know how much of the show you watched if any, but as I was trying to say before in the other thread. Miranda straight up shot down someone that was voicing against how she was being treated the day before calling them a dumbass, only to further go on mic herself talk about how much she liked black guys hitting on her *people accused her of being racist for some of the stuff she said the night off air on aurtos cam* to talking about the size of her boyfriends penis and how it's okay for her to talk about dicks as it's not on the bad word sheet... Toss in her breakdowns about her not deserving to still be on the show as other players got eliminated and she got ignored because she wasn't a threat.

I mean aris crossed the line, but.... shes.... a bit bad at handling the public light as well.

But yeah the Aris and Valle convo was really good. Listen to the Ultra David one before that if you want some laughs.

Unhandled Exception · Feb 29, 2012

SmokyDave said:
I'm shocked to find that some socially inept nerds would convey their insecurity through rampant sexism and misogyny.

I was even more shocked to discover that this 'Aris' chap looked exactly like I expected him to.

I straight up lost it when he was finally in frame. Couldn't have been more predictable.

Ogrekiller · Feb 29, 2012

Boken said:
Never been into the fighting game scene but I guess it's just a bunch of nerds who obnoxiously throw around insults and slurs to make themselves feel badass?

Rofl, now I know why the fighting game scene sucks.

Why are people allowed to post garbage like this?

Sblargh · Feb 29, 2012

Ogrekiller said:
Why are people allowed to post garbage like this?

Because Aris fed them.

Sixfortyfive · Feb 29, 2012

Ogrekiller said:
Why are people allowed to post garbage like this?

He's not worth it.

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