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Skullgirls |OT| New age of Heroines
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Slamtastic
Member
sixteen-bit
Member
You could try contributing to the discussion, instead of ignorantly reacting to superficialities?
...Oh, nevermind.
SousedLouse
Member
No no, obviously making a list with a reductionist version of the games features, and calling us all perverts, is the best way to follow up on a legitimate complaint with a description of the game. I wonder if he'll follow up with something about "fighting game hipsters"; someone posted that they were happy about the game appearing at an upcoming tourney, and we can't have that!
Parallax Scroll, I'm not about to defend Mike Z's quote about Skullgirls being like "fixed Marvel 2"; it's been so long that I can't even remember the context he said it it, but even I kind of facepalmed when I heard it. I certainly wouldn't describe a game that was made from scratch with actual effort put into it by comparing it to a cut-and-paste cash-in from the turn of the millennium, but that's just me. But if I had to take a guess, he probably meant that the characters in the game can actually be used both on point and as assists, unlike MvC 2 (or even (U)MvC 3!) where good point characters are hampered by possessing shitty assists, even when they've got other moves that would work perfectly as assist moves. Or how the only way to get any mileage out of certain characters (characters that may make the damn game for certain people) was to put them on point and pair them up with a specific type of assist, which hampered team composition. Even more so when you lose said point and have to flounder with 1 or 2 characters who are ass on point.
It's like how, in MvC2's early lifespan, people were always talking up how the only thing that mattered was team composition, and how you could get by with any team so long as you knew what you wanted to do (which is still true, as long as you completely ignore high level play). That's what Reverge Labs is trying to accomplish with Skullgirls.
Maybe claiming that it was "fixed" was too much. I wouldn't call it pretentious, seeing as how the devs still treat it like an indie game and don't pretend that it'll set the world on fire, but if that's what you take umbrage to, so be it. I, in turn, will continue to pop off every time you decide to shit on other posters for showing any sort of interest in the game or for pointing out that you're acting like a knob.
edit: Well damn, he's banned. Probably shouldn't have spent that extra time looking up the quote and proofreading, then.
I think that's a testament to just how important art direction is.
I've never seen this as a Marvel 2 analogue, regardless of what its original intentions were when Mike Z started it. It looks like it has a far slower, less relentless pace and much less reliance on assists. If I'd compare it to anything, I might say Vampire Saviour, but I'm not even too sure about that. It looks like its own thing, which is fantastic - I got sick of so many games trying to feel like GGXX over the last few years.
Is this just people getting overly defensive over Marvel 2 or something? It's hardly the best fighting game. Hell, I'd put dozens of fighters above it on a list. It's hugely flawed and I really don't find it much fun to play, but I've been incredibly excited for Skullgirls for the past month or so.
Is this just people getting overly defensive over Marvel 2 or something? It's hardly the best fighting game. Hell, I'd put dozens of fighters above it on a list. It's hugely flawed and I really don't find it much fun to play, but I've been incredibly excited for Skullgirls for the past month or so.
Riposte
Member
Perhaps. I feel like a veteran fighting game player can't ignore the god-like animation though.
I see very little in common between this game and MvC2 aside from the presence of assists and multiple teammates. And that it's a fighting game. Definitely a head scratcher when people bring up that comparison. I guess you could pick out elements that many games share but "MvC2 fixed" indeed sounds pretentious. Inspired by MvC2? Clearly, but not much more.
KingofSarus
Banned
Parallax Scroll may went full retard, but Marvel vs. Capcom 2 being broken is what gave it the charm that made us (except for the crybabies) play it for ten years~ <3
NOPE.
Old (inaccurate) joke is old.
There's nothing wrong with that...
...and there's nothing wrong with that.
NOPE.
Old (inaccurate) joke is old.
There's nothing wrong with that...
...and there's nothing wrong with that.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
From an aesthetic perspective the only problem I have with the game is I don't like how the hits look, feel and sound.
That's probably my biggest superficial barrier with getting into this game.
Really curious how a scene develops around this game more than anything. As it's not from a company with an established fanbase(Capcom players play new capcom. ArcSys play new ArcSys) it'll be interesting to see what communities it draws its playerbase from.
Vampire is about as fast as Marvel.
A lot of the reasons this game might not appear as fast is people aren't exactly experts in it, games generally get "faster" if the game heavily rewards aggression and the game itself has very fast moves and high mobility, which it seems like this game has.
I mean, it probably doesn't have 1 frame c.LKs, but it looks a lot closer in speed to Marvel 2/VS.
Also, if anyone is actually versed in airdash style fighters, they all play WAY more like Melty Blood than Guilty Gear. Guilty Gear actually has a much higher emphasis on a strong ground game.
Man, I'm the complete opposite. I think the hits feel and sound amazing, it's part of the reason I started to pay this more attention when videos began appearing. They feel chunky and absolute, like you can really be sure when you've connected with a move. The opposite of this is anything Arc System Works makes - the hits in GGX and BlazBlue look, feel and sound so papery and thin in comparison.
Melty Blood and GGX actually share quite a lot of ground in my mind in how they feel. Which is ambiguous, but meh, it's how I feel (and I'm not really fond of either). I think you're mad if you reckon Skullgirls looks anywhere near as fast-paced as Marvel though. It's nothing to do with skill, it's just the relative speed of the characters and the rate of attack. We've seen good people play the game.
SousedLouse
Member
Pretty much. Almost everyone I know who's into the game is trying as hard as possible to ignore the art style. I personally dig it, but only because
A) it kind of reminds me of some Euro comics I used to read, and
B) I like the fact that almost every playable character is monstrous or deformed in one way or another.
However, they are pretty happy about the game mechanics and the extra stuff surrounding it.
The way I see it, some people will be interested in the gameplay but turned away by the look, or vice versa. It happens.
Supposedly. According to Ravi and the team they gave it a lot of attention though they didn't mention how long it will take to finish.
That's all folks!
Perfect.
Anywhere with a collection of GIFs for the game?
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
These are my problems with it personally as well. I don't like the sound design at all. I don't really like the characters designs either.
I am still buying it though to give it a chance and see how it plays and mess with the mechanics. We shall see how it pans out.
Man it got bloody in here. I mean, no doubt there's going to be a good deal of folks off put by the visual style of the game, but I feel as though there's a tremendous amount of substance that's going to go overlooked if people don't just let it rock and see what the game plays like.
Comparisons are just to give folks an idea of what to expect mechanically, I don't think anyone really thinks the team wanted to make "Mahvel 2: Animaaaay Tiddies/Panties for All edition" but I guess there's some times when the sell is harder than it should be.
Edit: Yeah, this game really has a stronger Vampire Saviour feel to things at times than Marvel when assists and team mechanics aren't taken into consideration. I said as much to Ravidrath last NY Comic Con.
Comparisons are just to give folks an idea of what to expect mechanically, I don't think anyone really thinks the team wanted to make "Mahvel 2: Animaaaay Tiddies/Panties for All edition" but I guess there's some times when the sell is harder than it should be.
Edit: Yeah, this game really has a stronger Vampire Saviour feel to things at times than Marvel when assists and team mechanics aren't taken into consideration. I said as much to Ravidrath last NY Comic Con.
I don't really care for the animation, but that's because high animation count, lower contrast levels (black outlines and darker shadows hurt this more than help) and a fast game make for severe readability issues. These kinds of things are distinctly bad in a competitive game, especially for one so visually noisy through having assists and lots of projectiles.
From a pure gameplay perspective, I think the art style is bad for the type of game Skullgirls is. I think the animation itself is very well done.
Ravidrath, what's the fastest normal move in the game? (Obviously discounting throws).
From a pure gameplay perspective, I think the art style is bad for the type of game Skullgirls is. I think the animation itself is very well done.
It took years for people to make VS and Marvel look as fast as it did. I don't think it's QUITE Marvel speed, but it looks faster than GGXX if you discount how incredibly lengthy the hitstop is.
Ravidrath, what's the fastest normal move in the game? (Obviously discounting throws).
Could have sworn someone said they might be support for Vita release sometime later down the line, I assume it would'nt be too difficult with the cross-play functionality between it and the PS3...or I could be wrong.
I just know they said they're considering it.
I'm torn on the art direction.
I think some of the characters are really awesome and unique creations (Double, Peacock), but I dislike that that there are such heavy overtones in the cast toward over-sexualized, humongous titty, panty showing females. If the game continues to expand and they eventually shoot for ~30 characters, I think it would broaden the appeal a lot more to throw in a handful of male characters and some creatures (similar to Double).
I think some of the characters are really awesome and unique creations (Double, Peacock), but I dislike that that there are such heavy overtones in the cast toward over-sexualized, humongous titty, panty showing females. If the game continues to expand and they eventually shoot for ~30 characters, I think it would broaden the appeal a lot more to throw in a handful of male characters and some creatures (similar to Double).
SousedLouse
Member
Y'know, that's a good point. More often than not, I've seen the game demoed on lighter stages, but I could see dark palettes + dark stages being harder to parse than usual. I don't see it being TOO much of a problem, but if it causes enough problems I guess some stages would end up soft-banned; kind of like how Jill's camo/THC gimmick in MvC3 was banned in my neighborhood after NorCal Regionals this year
But I don't think you can, or should, discount how long the hitstop is; it's all part of flow of the fight. That's what I was saying in the other part of that post, the hits look chunky and absolute when they connect, and they definitely play a part in the game's pace. It's why I'm looking forward to it more than I would be if it truly was just "Marvel 2 fixed" and just played exactly the same.
Criminal Upper
Banned
The party still continues!
Huw_Dawson
Member
I'm somewhat baffled by the AH3 comparison. First of all, that game had a special edition with a mousepad with stick-out breasts. Secondly, the box art. Thirdly, everyone in that game is younger than sixteen, if memory serves.
Skullgirls and AH3 share an all female cast and are both 2d fighting games.
And it's not as if mainstream fighting games don't have comparably sexualised character designs.
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(Marvel is notorious for busty superheroes in skin-tight clothing!)
Hell, whenever anyone calls out Skullgirls, just point them at Mai. But KOF gets slack!
Of course, compare this to other genres of entertainment and it'll look worse or better than them by comparison. But SF has a character that wears a skintight leotard that makes her backside look huge and people call out Skullgirls?
I'm sure that everyone who hates the game is going to go down to their local gathering of fighting game players and smash all the monitors it's being played on, whilst sending messages to all their friends telling them to boycott the game because girls wearing knickers is a Bad Thing. I, on the other hand, will just try and show people how it plays, and all the funny and cool references that they shoved in.
One of my friends summed up the issue precisely - if there was a playable male, preferably in a karate gi and with big muscles, nobody would complain. They can give the female characters in SFxT jiggle physics, but Skullgirls gets attacked.
And just to get away from the Skullgirls vs MVC2 thing... Things that MvC2 does better than Skullgirls:
1) A slightly larger roster of usable characters - Magneto, Sentinel, Storm, Psylocke, Doom, Cable, Captain Commando as your top tier, then Iron Man, Tron, Juggernaut, Cyclops, maybe one or two others. Maybe twice this roster size as the absolute maximum - but MSP and MSS are extremely dominant.
2) I'M GONNA TAKE YOU FOR A RI-I-IDE
3) Fun brokenness. Unblockables, 300% combos, etc. If you like that sort of thing.
So yeah, MVC2 is it's own amazing thing that arguably kept the US scene alive for ten years. But Skullgirls does quite a lot better than it, as it learned from MvC2.
EDIT: Off the top of my head, I think that P4U might well have the largest number of not-sexualised women in the cast. The Persona series does a good job of making compelling character designs with a "real people" overtone.
Skullgirls and AH3 share an all female cast and are both 2d fighting games.
And it's not as if mainstream fighting games don't have comparably sexualised character designs.
(Marvel is notorious for busty superheroes in skin-tight clothing!)
Hell, whenever anyone calls out Skullgirls, just point them at Mai. But KOF gets slack!
Of course, compare this to other genres of entertainment and it'll look worse or better than them by comparison. But SF has a character that wears a skintight leotard that makes her backside look huge and people call out Skullgirls?
I'm sure that everyone who hates the game is going to go down to their local gathering of fighting game players and smash all the monitors it's being played on, whilst sending messages to all their friends telling them to boycott the game because girls wearing knickers is a Bad Thing. I, on the other hand, will just try and show people how it plays, and all the funny and cool references that they shoved in.
One of my friends summed up the issue precisely - if there was a playable male, preferably in a karate gi and with big muscles, nobody would complain. They can give the female characters in SFxT jiggle physics, but Skullgirls gets attacked.
And just to get away from the Skullgirls vs MVC2 thing... Things that MvC2 does better than Skullgirls:
1) A slightly larger roster of usable characters - Magneto, Sentinel, Storm, Psylocke, Doom, Cable, Captain Commando as your top tier, then Iron Man, Tron, Juggernaut, Cyclops, maybe one or two others. Maybe twice this roster size as the absolute maximum - but MSP and MSS are extremely dominant.
2) I'M GONNA TAKE YOU FOR A RI-I-IDE
3) Fun brokenness. Unblockables, 300% combos, etc. If you like that sort of thing.
So yeah, MVC2 is it's own amazing thing that arguably kept the US scene alive for ten years. But Skullgirls does quite a lot better than it, as it learned from MvC2.
EDIT: Off the top of my head, I think that P4U might well have the largest number of not-sexualised women in the cast. The Persona series does a good job of making compelling character designs with a "real people" overtone.
The opportunity for cross-play functionality has no bearing on the ability to port a game to a completely new platform such as the Vita.
It's a toss up for an indie dev to port to Vita, could be very rewarding, but putting a game out on a platform with a shaky start could be a massive risk on the business side of things as it can be expensive. If Skullgirls does well though, Sony may help out.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
I am NOT looking forward to Double fanart by the pervs, or whatever subgbroup thinks inside out bodies are hot.
Panty-shot lovers, represent.
I don't know if there are tweets, Floe's also a fan, as is Fanatiq.
sixteen-bit
Member
Mike Z is my FGC idol.
Wish this game was on disc so I could get it urleh at a mom and pop shop
I hope it gets a physical release eventually.
Y'know, that's a good point. More often than not, I've seen the game demoed on lighter stages, but I could see dark palettes + dark stages being harder to parse than usual. I don't see it being TOO much of a problem, but if it causes enough problems I guess some stages would end up soft-banned; kind of like how Jill's camo/THC gimmick in MvC3 was banned in my neighborhood after NorCal Regionals this year
Even on the lighter stages, by focusing on lower contrast outlines, less "dynamic" animation that's easier to read with one or two discernible poses etc, it makes it harder to react to things because the human brain cannot reasonably react to anything quickly other than fast changes in light and shape. This effectively slows your reaction time down a little bit.
On top of this, from a pure spectator point of view, and from a learning perspective, it's harder to understand what's going on. In general this makes it harder for people to pick up the game or understand things from watching. The easier it is to understand what's happening to a player, the faster they learn and the less frustrated they get, making them less likely to quit or not watch your game. Dynamic body shape affects this too, but this doesn't seem like a huge problem in Skullgirls, despite a few characters having similar body types, their silhouettes are a lot different.
These IMO are pretty important qualities in a tournament game. It directly affects your playerbase and retention rate.
Watching videos of the game (generally the easiest way of determining how "good" a game is at this), it's sometimes very difficult for me to understand what just happened strictly because of the contrast. If you look at really popular multiplayer games, one of the most consistent qualities between them all is how clear and understandable the game is. Street Fighter 4, for example, despite not being a very fun game IMO, is very easy to figure out what's going on visually. Most Street Fighter games adhere to this principle very strictly.
I think pace and speed are actually different things. I think the pace looks better than Marvel. The tension curve in this game is wholly different. I think long combos are HORRIBLE and the infinite prevention does nothing to fix the pace issues in VS games. Speed I would define more as how fast you move through the game screen, total frames of moves, etc. Pace would be combo length, knockdown length, how the "feeling out" phase tends to happen (less aggressive incentives cause this).
Shit like this is why you guys are great. A friend at work was telling me the other day that you guys kept in that quick switch into training mode from a regular match that you use in many of your demo videos because people at events loved having that. Much love. <3
SousedLouse
Member
Based on speculation from the earlier threads, I think that's the way they're headed, most likely after Squiggly and Umbrella (if Reverge Labs gets a chance to follow up on it.) The devs have expressed interest in DLC in the past, and if they sort out the details I think they'd be eager to do so.
I know that they had some concept art for a giantess, a walking, talking saxophone and an army dude with a tank for a fist. I think Crocodile posted a whole bunch of other stuff, but I can't figure out how to find those posts - I guess I'm still a junior at heart. Besides, even more speculation and theory crafting this early on based solely on the concept art, rather than the game we're getting at jump, might derail the OT too early.
Also as a followup, I'm mostly being critical because I think the gameplay design behind the game is really good. Even if I'm being very nitpicky here, I'm picking up the game and looking forward to it. I just want to share my experiences with visual style and competitive games.
Be grateful for what we have now, as the game looked like this 4-5 years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vXHRRI6qfE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vXHRRI6qfE
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I'm quoting both of this as they remind me of how I actually came around on the art direction and characters.
My initial reaction was: can't tell if it's any good, need to see animation.
My next reaction was: kind of looks Japanese girly, I'm not offended by that but don't particularly like it either.
My final reaction was: hey, suddenly I really like it.
What did it for me is that I realized the characters and art style are far, far more towards gothic than the lazy "loli" label that keeps getting pasted on the game. I pointed this out a long time ago in another thread but... all of the "sexualized" characters in SG (so far) are freaks. That they're "babes" seems almost satirical or dark. Parasoul, the most stately and serious female, seems the least "sexualized".
But everyone else is like something out of an Addams family reunion. Then I got the concept and the characters grew on me. Now I think they're pretty cool and the setting/premise of the fiction around the game is actually pretty unique and well done.
It's difficult to talk about this angle actually, because one can easily get accused of telling other people their taste is "wrong". Personally, I think maybe some (maybe a lot of) people honestly don't get what Skullgirls is going for, either because they're not interested in considering it past a thin slice or they have been exposed to way too many memes and stereotypes of games with female characters.
Showing SG to a lot of people is like showing people anime, any anime, and having their eyes glaze over as they snort "lol stupid Naruto shit".
Also, some of the rationalizations in the FG community ever since the game appeared can't help but sound suspect. Many people tried the tactic of "why would you be weird by making a cast all girls instead of guys". Nothing to do with sexualization mind you... just the basic concept "it has too many females". Gender bias showing much? People who play games full of electric mutants and chi throwing demon lords suddenly being red faced by "weirdness" because girls are involved? Hmm...
sixteen-bit
Member
Is this MUGEN?
Tizoc
Member
No offense mate, but looking at your current avatar...
Grr April 10th can't get here soon enough >_<
Maybe. I dunno. I haven't thought about it quite that much. I think we're starting to get into nebulous, subjective game design land now - I mean, what's "better"? How does someone qualify that, objectively? Some people like Marvel's pace, after all.
I'm not saying what you said about pace vs speed is wrong, but this is the kind of low level design that's impossible to nail down objectively. And I don't disagree that it does look better, but it's hard to judge, and I think it's fair to say that, broadly, generically, Skullgirls looks a lot slower than Marvel. For the better. Subjectively speaking. Yeah.
Well better in that post is my subjective opinion, I think the pace is slower and we can both agree that's a good thing