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NY Times: Sony is in "the fight for its life"

Omiee

Member
sell your tv bussines and you'll be making money. the tv side of the company has been losing money for years.

its not a smart bussines model.

they are making money on movies laptops console's and music artists. but are losing so much money on their tv's

sony shoul stop thinking they can make it turn around
 

HylianTom

Banned
sell your tv bussines and you'll be making money. the tv side of the company has been losing money for years.

its not a smart bussines model.

they are making money on movies laptops console's and music artists. but are losing so much money on their tv's

sony shoul stop thinking they can make it turn around

But their TVs are so so well-made! It'd be a shame to see the TV end go. And it would take heartless, draconian cuts in order to get rid of the whole division. I'm not sure if Kaz has it in him.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Lets not pretend that Sony is the only hardware manufacturer with a hard on for proprietary Peripherals.

Nobody does it to the extent that Sony does. They try to push some new format nearly every year pretty much. Some catch on and go mainstream, some don't.

Like it says in the NYT article, it was a while before Sony's audio players even supported MP3 instead of Sony's proprietary nonsense. Their portable stuff uses Memory Sticks instead of SD cards. Then Vita can't use those, you have to buy memory cards. They were trying to make UMD a thing, even though everyone knew that was dumb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_formats

Look at that, just as an example.
 

Omiee

Member
But their TVs are so so well-made! It'd be a shame to see the TV end go. And it would take heartless, draconian cuts in order to get rid of the whole division. I'm not sure if Kaz has it in him.

iv had a lot of sony tv's in the past and currently have one in my bedroom. absolutely love their tv's.

but id rather have sony be a healthy company than kill it self because i want a nice tv.

i love sony's other products to much for that.
 

erlim

yes, that talented of a member
If this happens I hope they at least sell off the playstation brand so it can keep existing in gaming. Kind of like infogrames became Atari.
 

HylianTom

Banned
If this happens I hope they at least sell off the playstation brand so it can keep existing in gaming. Kind of like infogrames became Atari.

I'd bet that Microsoft would end-up buying it in that case. Which would leave us with a Microsoft-Nintendo console landscape. Hmm.
 

ReaperXL7

Member
I'd bet that Microsoft would end-up buying it in that case. Which would leave us with a Microsoft-Nintendo console landscape. Hmm.

I know alot of people go for Apple, orsome others, but Google has a relationship with Sony, I think i'd be pretty interesting if Sony had to completely jump ship if they sold Playstation to them. Probably not very likely though, I would think Playstation would be one of the last things Sony would give up especially when you consider that Kaz plans to make it one of their top three pillars of the company.
 

Novid

Banned
Sony right now is caught between people who want Apple at 1000 a share, and other parts infighthing in its own company.

You know the people who want apple at 1000 bucks a share are gonna get reamed - and the infighting will stop when they those CEO's realise there not gonna have that office anymore.

All i ask is for some sort of UMD support for Vita better than this. PSN has to change dramaticly (SEN is a ok start but MS has a 15 year lead on that end) They need some sort of big hit with one of the 15 gaming studios the own. There creation tools are now on par with Apple's after years of middling bs and arnt arcane as avid etc. Sony provides every damn thing in the hollywood busness when it came to mastering and what not (HD tapes, which arnt that good, to the Prodisc which they stupidly left on the wayside despite it being high quality)

I have a Vaio. despite the plastic, if it had a SSD it would break the space time continum on start up speed from sleep. its that quick. with the hard drive is better than others. had never have a problem with it. Sony if one was a wise man would be a nice steal at 27 a share (it will be a bit less however) when Apples margins gets the better of them. but sony got to do the work now.
 
Stock keeps dropping on the Tokyo exchange. Has hit it's lowest point since the 90's for the fourth day in a row. I would say they are a prime takeover target but I don't know if there are any finance companies in Japan that have the financial might to pull it off.

There aren't. A buy out would have to come from the US. Even then, the premium would be massive given how large Sony is, the sum of Sony's parts is huge, even if that isn't currently reflected in the market cap. If an interested buyer came along, I would be surprised if they were able to buy Sony for less than $70bn, which is at least 3x what they are trading atm.

As soon as Sony spin off the TV division (I think it's coming) and bring all of the tax credits back onto the balance sheet the share price will go up. However, that is papering over the cracks, base profitability in their "good" divisions is very poor. That Sony, a formerly high end company, is aiming for a 5-7% net profit margin while Samsung, a mass market brand, brought in an 11% net profit margin last year shows just how poorly those "good" divisions are actually performing.

Kaz has taken over direct control of the TV division, but he hasn't gone far enough, he needs to also take control of the mobile devices unit which has underperformed relative to its peers (Apple, Samsung, HTC, LG) the only company worse off in that regard is Nokia. Sony's mobile strategy is still all over the place, the Xperia S, amazing design, uses last year's hardware and launched with last year's software. Xperia P, premium aluminium unibody construction and a new special type of LCD which really does have to be seen to be believed, uses this year's hardware, launching with last year's software at a mid range price so as not to compete with the S. What the fuck Sony, what the fuck. Why release a mid range phone with better features than the high end one!?!? What the hell kind of business model is that, the S should have an aluminium unibody and the WhiteMagic display as it would be able to justify the price premium. Right now, Sony's mid range phone is actually better than the top end one, the only area it loses out is in screen size and resolution, every other part of the P is stronger but it will sell for less money. Ridiculous.

Sony have also missed the boat with ultrabooks. That is a travesty as they have missed the opportunity to sell $500 hardware for $1200 under the guise of being an "ultrabook". What company intentionally misses an opportunity to do this? Ultrabooks are an area where Sony are getting their lunch eaten by Samsung once again, before they existed if one wanted to purchase a slick looking high end Wintel laptop Sony was first in the list. Now with ultrabooks, they are just one of a number of manufacturers who have slick looking laptops. By not competing in this market they lost market share in an area they still do well in. All they needed to do was slap something together, call it the UltraVaio and bring it to market for $1200, just having presence in the market would have been something.

Sony are a company which could be great, but the mismanagement has been terrible. I hope Kaz can turn it around, I really do.
 

Terrell

Member
The gaming division will be the last thing they sell, if it even gets to that point.

Problem is, with every division cut, there are expenses to be paid. You don't just close something down and reap reward. There's severance packages to be paid, first and foremost, as well as office closures in foreign countries, etc. etc.

By the time they've killed everything else, there'd be no money for the game division.

People say "kill the TV division", I say take your BEST TV and make it the ONLY model you sell, and do it as competitively as possible.

Then lather, rinse and repeat for every other hardware division.
 

NIGHT-

Member
NAme one that comes to the budget of Heavy Rain, or The Last Guardian. These are two very different games that will never be on any other console. That is not the story for MS. Most of their games end up on PC eventually, and usually better also. Come to think of it the only games not on pc that I know of on XBLA/Xbox are Gears, Halo 3 and after, and Shadow Complex. That is all I can think of and all those games are not very experimental. Fez is rumored to come to pc so I wouldn't count that one yet.

Nintendo I can give you that, but Nintendo is always the odd one out. I still support them, but not MS.

Do more research before posting stupid comments.... Thanks!
 

Auto_aim1

MeisaMcCaffrey
Didn't Sony Music buy the EMI label for $2.2 billion recently? So much for being in trouble. I feel they will bounce back, but they really need to stop making so many products. I think it's a combination of factors bringing Sony down - high yen, inefficient management, lack of innovative products, etc. but even then, they have no reason to post so much losses, they are clearly messing up somewhere.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I don't think they had no plans or stratagies. I think they wanted to be the go to brand for more expensive but higher quality tech. The problem was the economy plummeted and when looking to cut back, buying a bad LG instead of a good sony is an relativity easy cut to take. Doesn't help that traditional technologies have gotten good enough that most people are easily settling for cheaper stuff because that cheep stuff is pretty good too now.

I guess if there was a new technology where the cheep stuff would have to be really bad again then that might work, but for television that is 3D and the problem is no one cares about 3D, even though i think Sony does do 3D better than most
 

Fabrik

Banned
I don't think they had no plans or stratagies. I think they wanted to be the go to brand for more expensive but higher quality tech. The problem was the economy plummeted and when looking to cut back, buying a bad LG instead of a good sony is an relativity easy cut to take. Doesn't help that traditional technologies have gotten good enough that most people are easily settling for cheaper stuff because that cheep stuff is pretty good too now.

Yeah that's the thing. When I bought my TV, I couldn't see the difference between a LG or Sony TV but LG was way cheaper.
 

KingJ2002

Member
If I were Kaz... I would focus on the PlayStation brand and also focus on bringing a total and seamless entertainment experience.

+ I would make the PS4 incredibly dev friendly... consolidate our internal development studios to focus on our key franchises while supporting third parties better than the previous generation

+ I would re-launch the ps vita as a "all-in-one device"... give it more of a "PSP go" style design and have it compete against windows phone / iphone. Using PSN to create a more "entertainment" app driven environment while also having android run alongside the platform. Even have an annual upgrade cycle to stay ahead of the curve.

+ I would flex our entertainment muscle and push PSN to adopt an iTunes like environment where users would want to sign in with their PSN account to access movies, music, download games, etc.



overall... the key is to push entertainment first.
 

-viper-

Banned
I have the best strategy for Sony.

Release Gran Turismo 6 on the Playstation 4 as a launch game.

That is the honestly the ONLY thing they can do.
 

VAPitts

Member
I have the best strategy for Sony.

Release Gran Turismo 6 on the Playstation 4 as a launch game.

That is the honestly the ONLY thing they can do.

yes and they would have to sell like 100 million copies...*smh*

thinking like a fan doesn't help in this situation
 

Hyuga

Banned
yes and they would have to sell like 100 million copies...*smh*

thinking like a fan doesn't help in this situation

The current problem with their japanese studios (and every other japanese gaming company) is that they can't get their job done ON TIME!
They've already restructured their japanese studios in the last months, so I hope this will change now :)
 

-viper-

Banned
yes and they would have to sell like 100 million copies...*smh*

thinking like a fan doesn't help in this situation
It would be the best thing possible for the PS4.

Gran Turismo is Sony's best selling series ever. For the PS3, GT5 and GT5:p have sold more than 13 million combined.
 
I see no other chances for Sony than to drop unprofitable sections/devices completely.
As much as i would hate to see that but i guess they will finish off the Vita by end of this year.
I can also see them canceling the PS4 at this point
 

Fezan

Member
I see no other chances for Sony than to drop unprofitable sections/devices completely.
As much as i would hate to see that but i guess they will finish off the Vita by end of this year.
I can also see them canceling the PS4 at this point

is it so easy to drop a complete subsidiary of a company?
For example in Tv buisness they have factories & fabs set up many different r &d projects many contracts with other companies etc
 
They need to concentrate efforts and assets.

If you could buy Sony TV and it had a sony music and video streaming services that would be some major argument to choose it over LG or Samsung.
 

gogogow

Member
I see no other chances for Sony than to drop unprofitable sections/devices completely.
As much as i would hate to see that but i guess they will finish off the Vita by end of this year.
I can also see them canceling the PS4 at this point

I highly doubt it. Their TV division hasn't made money for 8 years straight and Kaz will not drop their TV business. What makes you think they will drop their SCE products which finally has been making money for the last few years since launch?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Like I said, it can't be that bad for Sony if they can spend $2.2b for music.

I think some observers are reading beyond performance problems (Sony's current issue) with 'survival problems', if you want to put it that way. There certainly isn't any liquidity issue. I think the only short term threat to Sony's survival as it is today would be a take-over and break-up. Most analyst commentary I've seen on Sony is preoccupied with results not getting to a level they deem acceptable fast enough - where acceptable means attractive for an investor vs alternative investment options...not acceptable from a survival POV.


I see no other chances for Sony than to drop unprofitable sections/devices completely.
As much as i would hate to see that but i guess they will finish off the Vita by end of this year.
I can also see them canceling the PS4 at this point

I don't think you've been paying attention. The games business is profitable and Hirai just came out and put it among just three businesses that will have priority for Sony going forward. In fact I'd speculate that the game business will probably have more resources at its disposal under this strategy than it did the last 5 years. Outside of those three they are going to be paring back.
 

Busty

Banned
Sony's quickly getting into a situation where it could find itself being swallowed up whole by some hedge fund and then sold off piece by piece as it's break up value must be much, much more than it's current market cap. And judging by Sony's current woeful stock price it's a startling thought.

From a gamer's perspective if this worst (..., and I do mean WORST) case scenario did happen the Playstation brand would simply continue under a new owner.

Sony would sell all it's assets and another manufacturer would start making Playstation devices. Though I'm not sure if all (or any!) of Sony's impressive first party studio portfolio would survive such a transition. :(

But the longer this financial doom and gloom around Sony continues the more and more likely it is that Kaz will simply sell or spin off the film/TV and music divisions to generate cash.

There are already rumours that the Sony lead consortium that bought out EMI Music aren't looking to hold onto the assets for very long. Instead looking to flip it in the near (?) future.
 

GopherD

Member
I see no other chances for Sony than to drop unprofitable sections/devices completely.
As much as i would hate to see that but i guess they will finish off the Vita by end of this year.
I can also see them canceling the PS4 at this point
Man I was wrong....THIS is the worst post in the thread.
 

Busty

Banned
The games business is profitable and Hirai just came out and put it among just three businesses that will have priority for Sony going forward. In fact I'd speculate that the game business will probably have more resources at its disposal under this strategy than it did the last 5 years. Outside of those three they are going to be paring back.

Yup. This is a great point actually. Kaz knows the strengths of the game biz and will look to build upon them.

Doubling down on games is a sure bet at this point.
 
I have a feeling Kaz will turn things around. I hope they don't do away with the TVs all together though, that CLED technology sounded pretty great, so even if they only make three models I hope this CLED becomes a reality.
 

Hyuga

Banned
As much as i would hate to see that but i guess they will finish off the Vita by end of this year.
I can also see them canceling the PS4 at this point

a3syq3jc.gif
 

AAequal

Banned
It's too late for Sony and for other Japanies electric brands. This is era of Samsung and Apple. Sony can streamline all they want but Samsung will counter attack and steal their customers no matter what. My guess is that sooner or later we will see mergers between some of the electric giants of Japan so they can somehow compete against S-korean and in the future Chinese companies.
 

dr_rus

Member
I see no other chances for Sony than to drop unprofitable sections/devices completely.
As much as i would hate to see that but i guess they will finish off the Vita by end of this year.
I can also see them canceling the PS4 at this point
notsureifserious.jpeg
 

Goodlife

Member
"AN area where Sony has found success — and perhaps one that most crystallizes the transition from stand-alone consumer electronics into a digital, Internet-centered world — is video games. Sony marketed its PlayStation 3 console, for example as an integrated entertainment system that serves as a hub in the living room, connecting the Internet and television."

By success do they actually mean "starting to make back some of the millions they lost on the PS3"
 

Wazzim

Banned
I see no other chances for Sony than to drop unprofitable sections/devices completely.
As much as i would hate to see that but i guess they will finish off the Vita by end of this year.
I can also see them canceling the PS4 at this point

Yeah cancelling everything that will make money for them is a great idea.
 

gogogow

Member
"AN area where Sony has found success — and perhaps one that most crystallizes the transition from stand-alone consumer electronics into a digital, Internet-centered world — is video games. Sony marketed its PlayStation 3 console, for example as an integrated entertainment system that serves as a hub in the living room, connecting the Internet and television."

By success do they actually mean "starting to make back some of the millions they lost on the PS3"

Yes, it's in quotation marks.

In original article:
the PlayStation brand is an area where Sony has clearly "found success,"
 

Cygnus X-1

Member
Want a strategy? Jettison the TV division.

Yeah, because if you had a half a century TV history you would shut down it so easily. No-one would.
I think Kaz want at least try to make some big change and see if it pays off. If not, they can still shut it down later. Once you do it, there is no turning back.
 
The PS4 needs to be a glorified Apple TV with a much stronger PS3 like device built in to leverage their content in terms of music and movies.

That SEN account was the first step.
 
Honestly, it sounds as if Sony is pretty much fucked, long-term, just because of specific entrenched 70s/80s/90s big J-business culture baggage that might be okay if they were still on top of things, but pretty much guarantees that rivals outside of Japan who are more flexible and able to better adapt will ensure some pretty bad odds for them.
 

2San

Member
"AN area where Sony has found success — and perhaps one that most crystallizes the transition from stand-alone consumer electronics into a digital, Internet-centered world — is video games. Sony marketed its PlayStation 3 console, for example as an integrated entertainment system that serves as a hub in the living room, connecting the Internet and television."

By success do they actually mean "starting to make back some of the millions they lost on the PS3"
To be fair ignoring the console industry, isn't the life insurance(lol) and camera department still doing great? Sony is still a real player in specific markets.
 

AAequal

Banned
Yeah, because if you had a half a century TV history you would shut down it so easily. No-one would.
I think Kaz want at least try to make some big change and see if it pays off. If not, they can still shut it down later. Once you do it, there is no turning back.
Agreed, again I would guess merger between Toshiba or Hitachi. They have already merged their small and medium screens divisions into one (Japan Display). Panasonic is expected to jump on board this or next year.
 
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