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Phloxy · Sep 23, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imjp...ature=youtu.be

I was super bummed by Horizon 3, but this demo ran fantastic for me. That video is only 1080p but I was playing at 4k, Ultra settings.

TylerDurden4321 · Sep 23, 2017

The lag from onscreen wheel to physical steering wheel is lower in every other damn racing game and they go with this excuse???!

Ploid 3.0 · Sep 23, 2017

Love the gif. Thanks for making a good day awesome!

paulpp · Sep 23, 2017

I've done some non-game related investigation of performance issues on multi-core CPUs in the past, and I've seen that the CPU power management can have a real impact on performance and latency.

If there is not enough work to be done, all cores except one can be powered down and multiple threads will run on a single core. With only a single core powered up, thread context switching would introduce latency.

I don't know if this is the case here, but I've definitely seen performance improvements with emulators when I've set the CPU affinity to a single core.

It's possible on consoles that the developer has more control of the CPU's power management states to prevent these type of issues.

tuxfool · Sep 23, 2017

paulpp said:
I've done some non-game related investigation of performance issues on multi-core CPUs in the past, and I've seen that the CPU power management can have a real impact on performance and latency.

If there is not enough work to be done, all cores except one can be powered down and multiple threads will run on a single core. With only a single core powered up, thread context switching would introduce latency.

I don't know if this is the case here, but I've definitely seen performance improvements with emulators when I've set the CPU affinity to a single core.

It's possible on consoles that the developer has more control of the CPU's power management states to prevent these type of issues.

Clearly other developers manage just fine, even on games with lower input latency no less.

PyroPaperPlanes · Sep 23, 2017

This not only makes no sense, but this is the same issue Forza Motorsport 6: Apex and Forza Horizon 3 suffered at launch. By limiting the engine to a single CPU Core, microstutters would consistently occur. This introduce additional input latency as well as affected the overall game presentation. Fortunately, both eventually received patches to fix this issue. The fact that Forza Motorsport 7 suffers the same issue is infuriating and baffling.

Profanity · Sep 23, 2017

TylerDurden4321 said:
The lag from onscreen wheel to physical steering wheel is lower in every other damn racing game and they go with this excuse???!

Where are these findings from?

J_ToSaveTheDay · Sep 23, 2017

Hm, how weird and disappointing.

Game generally runs quite nicely on my gaming laptop, but it DOES suffer from consistent dropped frames, like it's throttling on something every once in a while. I guess this kind of explains it, given my understanding of how CPUs work.

I never tried 6 Apex but Forza Horizon 3 was unplayable at launch for basically the same issue, though the staggers would happen far more frequently. It's... mostly playable now, but I still feel like Horizon 3 still leaves a lot to be desired on my laptop compared to playing on Xbox One, because it still does seem to have microstutters now. Much better than having like a full second where the image locks up then the game continues moments later, which is now what happens in Motorsport 7 -- just not as frequently.

kevin1025 · Sep 23, 2017

PyroPaperPlanes said:
This not only makes no sense, but this is the same issue Forza Motorsport 6: Apex and Forza Horizon 3 suffered at launch. By limiting the engine to a single CPU Core, microstutters would consistently occur. This introduce additional input latency as well as affected the overall game presentation. Fortunately, both eventually received patches to fix this issue. The fact that Forza Motorsport 7 suffers the same issue is infuriating and baffling.

Especially how they talked a good game during Gamescom about how important PC was to them.

Gideon_128 · Sep 23, 2017

Maintenance said:
Of the whole thing, that's your problem? That I used one word wrong (use instead of max)?

Here:

Akuun said:
https://imgur.com/gallery/mV9bFz7

This is why I read Gaf. Priceless...

tuna_love · Sep 23, 2017

i wish they could use the fox engine

tuxfool · Sep 23, 2017

tuna_love said:
i wish they could use the fox engine

Yes, because that engine will magically fix everything.

It will solve world hunger.

tuna_love · Sep 23, 2017

tuxfool said:
Yes, because that engine will magically fix everything.

It will solve world hunger.

i wish they could solve world hunger
vsync in this game is fucked, has anyone with stutters tried control panel vsync instead?

Tyl3n0L85 · Sep 23, 2017

I don't get why some people are saying the demo ran like shit on their pc while my old i7 3770 ran the game amazingly at max details.

What's the reason for this? Honest question.

truth411 · Sep 23, 2017

Maintenance said:
Of the whole thing, that's your problem? That I used one word wrong (use instead of max)?

Here:

Ha!!!

McStickenstein · Sep 23, 2017

Maintenance said:
Of the whole thing, that's your problem? That I used one word wrong (use instead of max)?

Here:

Stop I can't breathe

chromatic9 · Sep 23, 2017

Maintenance said:
Of the whole thing, that's your problem? That I used one word wrong (use instead of max)?

Here:

They lost a buyer for the time being but it delivered one of the best gifs.

BNGames · Sep 23, 2017

Zombie James said:
I've never heard of multithreading causing input lag. Is this legit?

It runs like utter dogshit

Proof: https://youtu.be/O9e0cT24C5c

The frame stutter and pacing were seriously making it hard to play. My video does not do it justice. This game should not be struggling on my rig.

Specs:
Fractal Design Node 804
COOLER MASTER Silent Pro Gold Series RS800-80GAD3-US 800W
Corsair h80i v2 Liquid Cooler
Intel Core i7-6700k 4GHz (Overclocked to 4.5GHz)
EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 SC2 GAMING iCX, 8GB GDDR5X (Overclocked to 2.1GHz)
GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5 Z170
CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000)
Western Digital WD Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
SAMSUNG 840 EVO MZ-7TE120BW 2.5" 120GB SATA III TLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
SAMSUNG 850 Pro Series MZ-7KE512BW 2.5" 512GB SATA III 3-D Vertical Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

wumster3000 · Sep 23, 2017

BNGames said:
It runs like utter dogshit

Proof: https://youtu.be/O9e0cT24C5c

The frame stutter and pacing were seriously making it hard to play. My video does not do it justice. This game should not be struggling on my rig.

Specs:
Fractal Design Node 804
COOLER MASTER Silent Pro Gold Series RS800-80GAD3-US 800W
Corsair h80i v2 Liquid Cooler
Intel Core i7-6700k 4GHz (Overclocked to 4.5GHz)
EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 SC2 GAMING iCX, 8GB GDDR5X (Overclocked to 2.1GHz)
GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5 Z170
CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000)
Western Digital WD Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
SAMSUNG 840 EVO MZ-7TE120BW 2.5" 120GB SATA III TLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
SAMSUNG 850 Pro Series MZ-7KE512BW 2.5" 512GB SATA III 3-D Vertical Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

I may have to go back a play it because I have not encountered any issues with it.

MontlyCure · Sep 23, 2017

7700k here. The game runs great (menus stutter a lot though) but it's disappointing seeing one core maxed out and my temps shooting up to 86c.

Momentary · Sep 23, 2017

You can eliminate framepacing and stuttering issues if you set the game to run above 60FPS and use rivatuner to limit the framerate to 60. Unfortunately the game only allows me to run the game at 72 FPS for some odd reason. Of the game actual supported non locked frame rates then I could probably have the game running at maybe a locked 90FPS. But for some reason this game locks any monitor that is 120 FPS or above at half the refresh. So 120=60, 144=72, 165=82, etc.

Anyway. Here's a video with me having the game running at 72 FPS and limiting it to 60.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qWEBh22UTc

Aside from the troublesome menus, it runs pretty well
Don't mind the shitty driving

Pepto · Sep 23, 2017

BNGames said:
It runs like utter dogshit

Proof: https://youtu.be/O9e0cT24C5c

The frame stutter and pacing were seriously making it hard to play. My video does not do it justice. This game should not be struggling on my rig.

Specs:
Fractal Design Node 804
COOLER MASTER Silent Pro Gold Series RS800-80GAD3-US 800W
Corsair h80i v2 Liquid Cooler
Intel Core i7-6700k 4GHz (Overclocked to 4.5GHz)
EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 SC2 GAMING iCX, 8GB GDDR5X (Overclocked to 2.1GHz)
GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5 Z170
CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000)
Western Digital WD Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
SAMSUNG 840 EVO MZ-7TE120BW 2.5" 120GB SATA III TLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
SAMSUNG 850 Pro Series MZ-7KE512BW 2.5" 512GB SATA III 3-D Vertical Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Why did you turn off the dynamic optimization?

rrs · Sep 23, 2017

Pepto said:
Why did you turn off the dynamic optimization?

if it's like in FH3, it is trash that doesn't do what it says on the label.

Condom · Sep 23, 2017

There is just no excuse in 2017 to not have efficient multicore performance

Pepto · Sep 23, 2017

rrs said:
if it's like in FH3, it is trash that doesn't do what it says on the label.

It does for me in all three games.

Skyr · Sep 23, 2017

Rayge said:
You can eliminate framepacing and stuttering issues if you set the game to run above 60FPS and use rivatuner to limit the framerate to 60. Unfortunately the game only allows me to run the game at 72 FPS for some odd reason. Of the game actual supported non locked frame rates then I could probably have the game running at maybe a locked 90FPS. But for some reason this game locks any monitor that is 120 FPS or above at half the refresh. So 120=60, 144=72, 165=82, etc.

Anyway. Here's a video with me having the game running at 72 FPS and limiting it to 60.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qWEBh22UTc

Aside from the troublesome menus, it runs pretty well
Don't mind the shitty driving

This is hilarious but that method actually works for me.
One little framdrop in 2 rounds but besides that it was pretty much perfect.

I did not disable any cores btw.

So the culprit may be the integrated frameratelimiter after all?
Because when I'm not limiting it with MSI afterburner as suggested the fps drops from 72->71 or 60->59 with the hitching occuring.
When I'm limiting it with MSI afterburner to 60 when the target is 72 ingame the hitching is gone and it sits perfectly stable at 60.

Such a weird behaviour...

BNGames said:
It runs like utter dogshit

Proof: https://youtu.be/O9e0cT24C5c

The frame stutter and pacing were seriously making it hard to play. My video does not do it justice. This game should not be struggling on my rig.

Specs:
Fractal Design Node 804
COOLER MASTER Silent Pro Gold Series RS800-80GAD3-US 800W
Corsair h80i v2 Liquid Cooler
Intel Core i7-6700k 4GHz (Overclocked to 4.5GHz)
EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 SC2 GAMING iCX, 8GB GDDR5X (Overclocked to 2.1GHz)
GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5 Z170
CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000)
Western Digital WD Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
SAMSUNG 840 EVO MZ-7TE120BW 2.5" 120GB SATA III TLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
SAMSUNG 850 Pro Series MZ-7KE512BW 2.5" 512GB SATA III 3-D Vertical Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Would you please try that method too and see if it works for you?

sirap · Sep 23, 2017

Oh wow we're back in 2007.

tuna_love · Sep 23, 2017

i wonder what my cpu temps will be when they unlock the framerate

Zeouterlimits · Sep 23, 2017

K.Jack said:
There's no way the console versions are only running on one core, so this reeks of complete bullshit.

Yeah, the One X version is hardly doing the same.

Theswweet · Sep 23, 2017

Wow, uh, I was thinking about getting this - I think I'm fine with Forza 6: Apex for now.

zoobzone · Sep 23, 2017

Yeah I'm getting noticeable stutters in this demo too.

cHaOs667 · Sep 23, 2017

MontlyCure said:
7700k here. The game runs great (menus stutter a lot though) but it's disappointing seeing one core maxed out and my temps shooting up to 86c.

You should really think about your cooling solution if you have this issue. For my taste this is way too hot for single core computing.

Xater · Sep 23, 2017

Tyl3n0L85 said:
I don't get why some people are saying the demo ran like shit on their pc while my old i7 3770 ran the game amazingly at max details.

What's the reason for this? Honest question.

I have an R5 1600X and the game runs with everything maxed at 60. No issues at all.

exmachina64 · Sep 23, 2017

Thanks for making my purchasing decision easier, Turn 10.

xrnzaaas · Sep 23, 2017

Bullshit explanation, more likely they didn't have the time or the manpower

or they were too busy swimming in money

to optimize the PC version.

JaseC · Sep 23, 2017

dr_rus said:
How is running everything on one core even improves latency? It may improve latency stability but when you have a 100% Skylake core load you're dealing with what is essentially the worst possible latency on a modern system as everything must wait for it's turn to be able to execute. Splitting this between four cores will effectively cut this latency in four although there may be some synchronization overhead and corner cases which can push the latency back up to single core 100% load figures - but it would still be a lot better on average, not worse.

Edit: maybe the meaning behind this statement is that they try to fight CPU power saving features this way? But it's still stupid even if true.

You two are on the same page; he agreed with you.

Alexious · Sep 23, 2017

Hi guys, I wanted to share an update we got from Turn 10 via PR. Apparently, they're chalking it up to a miscommunication on the Community Liaison's part. The story has now been updated.

Forza Motorsport 7 is not limited to running on one core. There seems to have been a miscommunication along the way. Forza Motorsport 7 uses as many cores as are available on whatever system it runs on, whether that is a 4- to 16-core PC or the 7 cores available on Xbox One.

The stuttering and uneven core balance are still there, though, at least in the demo. We can only hope the game will feature improvements, either at launch or afterward.

GearDraxon · Sep 23, 2017

Maybe they just ran out of development time, and will put out a revised version that takes advantage of a couple more cores.

Call it the Threecore Definitive Edition.

nekkid · Sep 23, 2017

Oachkatzlschwoaf · Sep 23, 2017

PyroPaperPlanes said:
This not only makes no sense, but this is the same issue Forza Motorsport 6: Apex and Forza Horizon 3 suffered at launch. By limiting the engine to a single CPU Core, microstutters would consistently occur. This introduce additional input latency as well as affected the overall game presentation. Fortunately, both eventually received patches to fix this issue. The fact that Forza Motorsport 7 suffers the same issue is infuriating and baffling.

Speak for yourself, I didnt have a single issue with Forza 7.

Fredrik · Sep 23, 2017

Turn 10, what are you doing? Forza Horizon 3 is fantastic, I run it on three screens way above 60fps, no issues. Are you seriously asking me to run Forza 7 at 30fps?!
(I don't have the demo yet, waiting patiently on the full game instead)

PowerK · Sep 23, 2017

Maintenance said:
Of the whole thing, that's your problem? That I used one word wrong (use instead of max)?

Here:

Instant classic.

MontlyCure · Sep 23, 2017

cHaOs667 said:
You should really think about your cooling solution if you have this issue. For my taste this is way too hot for single core computing.

My cooling solution is definitely not anything special (Cryorig H7), but temps in other games are rarely this high. It's not a sustained 86C, but it still fluctuates between 74C - 86C.

Xyber · Sep 23, 2017

Tyl3n0L85 said:
I don't get why some people are saying the demo ran like shit on their pc while my old i7 3770 ran the game amazingly at max details.

What's the reason for this? Honest question.

People saying it runs like shit is exaggerating, but the game could definitely perform much better.

Do you play at 60fps? How sensitive are you to stuttering? People have different standards.

Even if I play at 4K with most settings maxed out, the game still only wants to use between 55 and 80% of my GPU (mostly leaning towards the lower end). There's so much performance of my 1080Ti that is completely wasted. So I only get around 80-90fps instead of hitting like 120+ that I could probably do if it actually used my GPU.

And hitting 80fps at 4k is still pretty good, so that's why I don't agree with people saying it runs like shit. But the game does stutter and is CPU limited overall because it puts most of the load on 1-2 cores. And that's disappointing when they have had this exact same problem for the last 2 games now.

mrklaw · Sep 23, 2017

I wonder if they mean that by multithreading theyll be sharing cores with OS systems which may take cycles at inopportune moments. By only using one core they will be more protected from system impacts? Xbox is a more controlled environment so that is less of a concern.

Might be a stretch but all I can think of. And even then youd think they could at least go to 2 threads

watership · Sep 23, 2017

So the cpu threading info was wrong. Will this thread realize it? No.

Fredrik · Sep 23, 2017

RoboPlato said:
There's no way this game is running at 60fps in a single jaguar core on Xbox One. It has to have multithreading in the engine. Why it's not on PC is a mystery.

That's my thought as well. There is no logic reason what so ever for this game to run better on Xbox One than a gaming PC.

Slackbladder · Sep 23, 2017

cHaOs667 said:
You should really think about your cooling solution if you have this issue. For my taste this is way too hot for single core computing.

7700k's are known to run hot, if you're unlucky enough to get one that does. My one will easily hit 80+c and I have a Corsair H80i V2 Hydro Cooler going at nearly full whack. It's sometimes shit luck if you get a below average cpu.

If Turn 10 have said this is a miscommunication then I'm not sure what they were trying to say. Is the one core cpu load intentional or not? Do they recognise it as a problem? Sure, I didn't suffer too bad from it. As many have said it seems to affect the menu most. But that can't be intentional surely?

Fredrik · Sep 23, 2017

watership said:
So the cpu threading info was wrong. Will this thread realize it? No.

Aha, didn't get than until you said it.
Quoting the devs for others to see:

Turn 10 said:
Forza Motorsport 7 is not limited to running on one core. There seems to have been a miscommunication along the way. Forza Motorsport 7 uses as many cores as are available on whatever system it runs on, whether that is a 4- to 16-core PC or the 7 cores available on Xbox One.

Deaf Spacker · Sep 23, 2017

This has killed my interest, the demo was a bit stuttery in places and I'm not waiting months for a fix to be released like Forza Horizon 3.

It's even worse knowing that it was a deliberate decision.

Edit, ignore me, my interest is still killed though.

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