Ahoi-Brause
Banned
Now your post makes no sense anymore though.ultron87 said:
Just having a minimap and no real map is more proof that levels are super-linear.
That and checkpoints... lol
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Hitman: Abomination - Stealth, No Map, Killing only target 'ambition' and more
- Thread starter Speedymanic
- Start date
Just having a minimap and no real map is more proof that levels are super-linear.
That and checkpoints... lol
Speedymanic
Banned
ultron87 said:
There is a mini map, but no proper map. Not sure you can come away from that without thinking that levels will be linear.
Maybe linear isn't the right word, levels might be Mass Effect 2 like in design with there being very little need for a proper map because they are very guided with very little opportunity to go off the beaten track as you could in previous titles.
bjaelke said:
I'd be interested in seeing these. Link?
UnblessedSoul
Member
This game is looking good so far, some people here are taking the hating to the extreme it got old a while back
whalleywhat
Member
I don't really think of Hitman games as stealth. They're about blending into environments, watching the patterns of people within them, looking for objects you can interact with, and doing things like
Nothing I've seen indicates the new game will be anything like this.
replacing an actor's prop gun with a real gun so he does the killing for you.
To me the real worrying thing here are checkpoints, really.
It's a gamedesign feature that kinda means everything that you do, beyond a certain point, can't affect what comes next.
And that's a bummer, cause it removes from long lasting planning in a mission, what you do at the start, will not influence what you'll have at the end.
Everything else can be avoided, in some fashion.
It's a gamedesign feature that kinda means everything that you do, beyond a certain point, can't affect what comes next.
And that's a bummer, cause it removes from long lasting planning in a mission, what you do at the start, will not influence what you'll have at the end.
Everything else can be avoided, in some fashion.
-BLITZ-
Member
From what answers he gives, sounds off more like he's desperate with only some minor or simple path ideas of making this Absolution with such a brute-solid-rock typical linear game. I see this new Hitman, made more for testing the new engine and other brand new codes/cutscenes, to see how it rolls on PC/Console, you know, like how R* did to IV, after all, IV to me is nothing more and less than a test game based on a new engine.
I see this Hitman now more like Stranglehold Videogame. And Editions? Now I see the game already a Mafia II cut in 100 pieces with 4-5 DLC packs of clothes, armor and weapons. :{
I see this Hitman now more like Stranglehold Videogame. And Editions? Now I see the game already a Mafia II cut in 100 pieces with 4-5 DLC packs of clothes, armor and weapons. :{
That tells me that when Instinct mode is disabled, you have to rely on NPC action and talk. I have no idea how that answer implies that the level structure will be very linear, there have been maps in the other Hitman games as well and those levels were far from linear.Speedymanic said:
Now taking things away is also bad? I am out of ideas here.MMaRsu said:
Coming from a big fan of the series, I still thought the gameplay needed a shake up after Blood Money, in terms of the enemy AI particularly.
I'd be tentative about this game, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now. As long as you can still play without shooting (or meleeing), you can still disguise and there's a strong puzzle element to the missions then I'm optimistic.
I'd be tentative about this game, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now. As long as you can still play without shooting (or meleeing), you can still disguise and there's a strong puzzle element to the missions then I'm optimistic.
Speedymanic
Banned
derFeef said:
I can't find it now, but the developers have said that you can't disable instinct, you just can't use it as much/it has fewer features on the harder difficulties.
In most cases, when a game doesn't have a proper map, it's usually because the levels are linear/more guided/less room to get lost or not find your way around.
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
There have been maps, but not only a minimap that only shows where you are currently.derFeef said:
Also relying on npc action on talk? How so?
This indicates that you'll be sneaking through the shadows and planning stealth takedowns instead of trying to hide in plain sight.
If you got no floorplans of the buildings a big aspect of the series will be taken away.
Interfectum
Member
Ahoi-Brause said:
Yup. I don't think a lot of people have thought about what that means for level design if they are getting rid of an overall map view.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Instinct and the map replacement are changes that I'm... tentative on. Could go well, could suck.
No manual saving? In conjunction with some of the map changes we've been told about, fuck that.
No manual saving? In conjunction with some of the map changes we've been told about, fuck that.
Koopakiller
Banned
No doubt it'll be a good game. Even Mini Ninjas and Kane & Lynch are good games.
But will it be a good Hitman game? From the sounds of it this one won't scratch my Hitman itch so hopefully Death to Spies 3 delivers where this one doesn't
But will it be a good Hitman game? From the sounds of it this one won't scratch my Hitman itch so hopefully Death to Spies 3 delivers where this one doesn't
Doesn't sound that bad. Previous Hitman games were clunky and required an extreme amount of patience for the player to really feel like an assassin. As long as they don't go overboard with their streamlining I don't really have a problem with anything except the change from large explorable levels to more funneled designs, which may not be that bad if the areas are sizable.
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
I don't know what you mean with "extreme" amount of patience but you make it sound like requiring the player to do some thinking on his own was a negative trait of hitman.Ushojax said:
Interfectum
Member
NIN90 said:
Not only that but that levels have a lot of checkpoints which means it's going to be a lot more linear than previous games.
Interfectum
Member
Ahoi-Brause said:
Isn't that the general trend for modern games? Require no intelligence and constantly pat gamers on the back with trinkets, rewards and/or achievements.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Ahoi-Brause said:
I sometimes wonder if spite is your entire raison d'être.
So far, IO has sucked in their PR, but I don't think streamlining and changing things up is bad. Change is good, there's a lot of potential. Of course, if the game actually turns out to be stupid, sucks, and is a linear cover shooter with occasional costume changes, when playing it, I'll agree you were correct.
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
"You make it sound like shitting up the game is bad, making a hitman game that is nothing like hitman has lot of potential"NotTheGuyYouKill said:
In this case they should just call it kane & lynch 3: hitman
Thanks! If the game turns out to be a true hitman game I'll be the first to buy and praise it.NotTheGuyYouKill said:
After all I DO WANT more hitman games.
Interfectum
Member
Some quotes from the lead designer of Hitman 5 on previous Hitman games:
/wrists
/wrists
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
Those people are officially morons.Interfectum said:
It's like capcom saying "Well... we noticed streetfighter was always about fighting and that got a bit old, so now you also have to do unskippable shooting and do kart racing during the fights, we also reduced the number of buttons and attacks because that got a bit confusing!"
The lack of a map is worrying, and hopefully they add in manual saving. Aside from that, good to hear that it's still focused on being able to beat levels without killing anyone but the target.
I don't see why some people keep mentioning shit like Instict the way it was described by GI, basically being mark and execute. Based off what's being said, that will NEVER be required at all, it's just something you can do if you happen to fuck up.
I don't see why some people keep mentioning shit like Instict the way it was described by GI, basically being mark and execute. Based off what's being said, that will NEVER be required at all, it's just something you can do if you happen to fuck up.
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
It's theoretically possible to beat duke 3D or Kane & Lynch 2 without firing a gun, it's just not something the game wants you to do.KorrZ said:
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
MMaRsu said:
I thought you would like this removal, because it would make the game more hardcore. Isn't that what you want?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Ahoi-Brause said:
It just doesn't sound all that different to me. We'll still have multiple ways to take down targets in large-scale areas. As long as they don't screw it up, I think I'm okay with the minor changes like Instinct and stuff like that... as long as it's not over-powered or whatever. Also, Bateson should come back. Come on, IO.
Also, Absolution has Marsha Thomason starring in it. I give them props because I am superficial.
Ahoi-Brause said:
I would say that the amount of time you spend doing nothing but observing people and staring at the map frequently became tedious. If you enjoy that kind of gameplay, that's cool, but I think they can retain that idea without making it so crushingly dull. I own Hitman 2 and Blood Money but I've never played beyond halfway. If the game ends up like Conviction, I can see why people would be annoyed and I wouldn't want to play a Hitman game like that, but I think there is plenty of room to make these games more accessible without losing the spirit of the franchise. To me this franchise was great conceptually but just not that fun to play.
Interfectum
Member
Juan29.zapata said:
If the challenge is tedious and based on trial and error, then no.
A map helped you to learn the environment and scope out areas where you might be able to sneak in. Now you are going to have to go in blind, die, try another spot, die, etc. I'd rather try to think about a solution rather than brute force my way through it.
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
No, because they fucking dodge the question every time. "OH!... S-Sure YOU CAN STILL PLAY THE GAME WITHOUT.... K-KILLING!"derFeef said:
You can play every game in a way it is not supposed to be played. If this new hitman does not revolve about old hitman gameplay anymore you can still try to play it like the old games but it's just something the game is not designed for.
I think the game is going to be a stealth-shooter with a "loose" interpretation of the word "stealth", which already is a fucking big departure from the old hitman games. I think they somehow got "splinter cell" and "hitman" mixed up somewhere in their design documents, splinter cell was a "stealth" game while himan was something entirely different.
Well anyways - from all the information we got I think we can all be sure that the "non lethal" playthrough is not something you'll naturally do when you play the game the way it is supposed to be played but something you'll do when you need a challenge, like AXE ONLY run in quake.
edit:
Juan29.zapata said:
Io started this whole "hardcore" bullshit to flatter fans of the old hitman games as "too hardcore" to trick them into accepting the changes.
It's such an obvious pr-move.
I was 14 when I played the first hitman, I wasn't hardcore, I just liked to play videogames.
Fuck this whole bullshit "hardcore" talk.
This whole industry has become so fucking moronic when developers started picking up message board terminology.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
duffyside said:
Better start your list of who is saying what so you'll have it for reference.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Interfectum said:
Technically, you're not really blind... you just have AC-esque paranoia vision!
I don't mind that hint thing. I'd rather figure stuff out on the fly like that then stare at a map and think of a route.
Ahoi-Brause said:
Hitman is a murderous puzzle game, more than anything :/
Interfectum
Member
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Yeah I can see that. Personally though I'd like a map just to glance at from time to time. Make it optional, like instinct.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Interfectum said:
Agreed, that would be the perfect compromise.
Ahoi-Brause said:
You are passionate about it and I can respect and understand that, but you are just making things up now. You say the game is going to be a shooter, but we know you do not need to shoot a gun once. You say the game is dumbed down, but we know there is no instinct mode on the harder difficulty levels.
I am going to wait for new real information now, I need my nerves somwhere else.
Yeah, a map would be appreciated.Interfectum said:
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
Yeah we only hate this because it's a sequel! Remember how we all hated blood money?Orayn said:
Oh no wait, this is something entirely different and you're being overly smug about something without actually reading the threads.
Well yeah, the shooter part is speculation from my side considering the info and leaked gameplay. They even stated it has a higher focus on gunplay and considering this is from the people who made kane & lynch 2 and not the original hitman crew, the focus on checkpoints and linear level design and the fact that you refil "instinct" with doing stealth takedowns - I'm fairly certain that this game will be more action oriented.derFeef said:
MMaRsu
Banned
Juan29.zapata said:
Uhm I don't think I ever said I wanted the map gone? I don't want the game to be more 'hardcore' , I want the game to be as good as Blood Money was and then some.
The fact that they removed something as the map which has been in the series since the first game is just mind boggling to me. A minimap? fuck that, I don't even want that. Instinct? I don't want to see the next 5 steps of every NPC walking around. I don't want to hide in the goddamn shadows and lurk around like some kind of Sam Fisher.
This is Hitman, a series about being out in the open, going around like everyday's business and not making people notice you. Creating 'accidents' to kill your only target.
Orayn said:
Wrong, this isn't a kneejerk response because we are all responding to quotes made by the developers themselves.
FACT - they said the previous games were too much trial and error and want to 'fix' that.
FACT - they dumped David Bateson, the character basis for 47 and hired some Hollywood actors that nobody cares about. Worst of all, David had to hear this through fans, as IO wouldn't return his calls.
FACT - They are removing basic staples of the series and putting in new casual stuff to bring the Hitman franchise to a larger audience.
Blood Money is factually one of the best sandbox games that deal with freedom and how to approach the mission at hand. There is simply NO other game like it. Did we want new stuff for the new Hitman game? YES. Did we want them to build upon Blood Money, the best game in the series? YES.
Did we want them to reinvent the wheel when it was never broken in the first place? NO.
Also, no manual savind and no Jesper Kyd. Blerhg.
Koopakiller
Banned
I thought the map helped reinforce the puzzle-like feel of the game but I don't see it as a deal breaker, never used it all that much in the first place
What bothers me is that everything we've heard so far makes it sound like a more linear, focused, cinematic version of Contracts. Not a good thing.
What bothers me is that everything we've heard so far makes it sound like a more linear, focused, cinematic version of Contracts. Not a good thing.