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Is Every Speed Limit Too Low?

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B

BlackGoku03

Member
Tence said:
Could it be because of the exam/test? I know in the Netherlands they are very strict. You have to drive in the city, on the high way, do some stuff like parking in backwards and stopping on a hill, brake and drive again (et cetera) and even small mistakes like driving too slow or insecure can cost you the test. Like if you don't merge with the traffic on a high way with enough confidence, you could already fail.
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Having lived in Europe and in the US, I think it's the level of training and testing. The book in England was freakin huge... I didn't want to take it.

But yes, Europeans drive better than Americans. Our tests are a joke and they differ by state.
 
J

JertSim

Neo Member
SoRuffShoNuff said:
Yeah people driving at a comfortable speed and then slamming on the brakes when they see cops sounds safe.
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And speeding down residential areas is so much safer? Comfortable speed is one thing but these people like to do 30 plus down streets that have lots if kids on. No reason to be in such a rush all the time.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Auctopus said:
National Speed-Limit is a funny thing in Britain. Have fun going 60 down here...

national-speed-limit-applies-signs-in-country-lane-picture-id95914654
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its a bit odd, but its not really a 'you can go 60mph' road. It just means 'fuck it, figure it out yourself'.

All speed limits on roads get overridden by the principle of only driving at a speed that allows you to safely stop within the distance visible to you.

i.e you're going down that country road with a '60mph' limit but its tight and winding, you should probably be only doing 20. Always assume there is a tractor broken down or a flock of sheep just around that bend and adjust your speed accordingly
 
U

UpDownLeftRight

Banned
PG2G said:
Hopefully people on the street would be courteous enough to move to the side when people want to go faster than they do.

While I don't really like pushing people, you need some way to communicate with the person going 65 in the fast/passing lane.
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I mean, on the street I wait until I can get round the person. I'm not gonna push them or make a big scene about it. On the road I do the same. When it comes down to it tailgating is pretty much just kicking someone in the heels hoping they'll either trip or speed up. I just find it confusing that people feel justified in being more of a dick in a car, when it's significantly more dangerous than kicking heels which these people would likely never do.
 
R

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
We definitely need to raise the speed limit to at least 120km/h or 130km/h. You can comfortably cruise down the highway at that speed. I don't see many people exceeding that limit, either, because I don't think people feel comfortable at 140 to 160 km/h.
 
F

flohen95

Member
Cappa said:
There are stupid laws everywhere doesn't mean they're strictly enforced.

You won't be fined for Jay walking unless some sort of accident or another incident is involved.

As for raising the speed limits.... The US has a fairly high motor vehicle mortality rate percentage compared to many countries in Europe. Also many studies have proven that lowering speed limits actually causes more accidents than raising them.

As a former US resident my experiences in Europe outside of select cities and countries(Italy and Portugal are by far my worst experiences) generally people drive much better in Europe than in the US.
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The process for getting a driver's licence is a lot more rigorous in most European countries that it is in the US, which I assume is part of the reason for this. It's also why I'm not sure a system like Germany's would work in the US unless driver's licences would have to be reaquired under a more thorough test.

I do think though that the system implemented in Germany is a pretty good one. This is anecdotal, but I've seen a common sentiment on this site from mostly US residents that "no one sticks to the speed limits anyway". And while you will likely be overtaken by a few cars in Germany if you're going 130 kph on a part of the Autobahn limited to 130 kph, I feel like that sentiment is a lot less common here and people will abide by the speed limit more often, precisely because only certain areas are acutally speed restricted and there are plenty of sections where you can put your foot down if you want to.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
Roads are designed to be safe when driven at speeds above the speed limit. This is because they were made by us, and we know we're awful.

Speed limits are still too high in general, there's no reason any neighborhood should have a limit over 20 or a highway should have a limit over 70.
 
H

hydrophilic attack

Member
If you break the speed limit (except during short times in exceptional circumstances, such as when overtaking) you are a selfish asshole who value saving yourself 5 minutes over the safety of others. It's the same kind of mentality that makes people vote Republican regardless of how many people they screw over, just because they personally would get slightly lower taxes
 
S

Subpar Scrub

Banned
Not every one. There's extremely windy mountain roads in the QLD hinterland that's posted at 90/100kph that I sometimes struggle to stay at the limit on in my car, even with defensive driving experience and practice on my side. Never seen anyone keep pace either, they're usually going 70kph at the most on those roads.

In any case, speed limits are usually good. If it feels too slow for you, then just feel glad that you have extra time to perceive your surroundings and you're not part of the lowest common denominator that the "slow" limits must accommodate for.
 
highrider

highrider

Banned
People that rocket through residential neighborhoods seem to think so. American drivers are so incompetent they should have automatic speed limiters built in to cars.
 
A

Aeana

Member
Stallion Dan said:
People drive over the limit so raise it?

Wtf... They're just gonna drive over the new limit instead.
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The idea put forth by the person in the article is that speed limits don't tend to govern how fast people drive. Road design, proximity to houses, and other things like that factor in much more. You will always have some people who will exceed whatever the posted limit is, but as the article states, those people are actually in the minority when you have a speed limit set for a road that feels like it makes sense to drivers.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
Yeah, this is probably more relevant to the topic than speed limits (like the OP guy said, only 10% of people notice limit signs): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming

People will drive at whatever speed feels comfortable to them on the road they're on. I've learned this on certain roads where 12-foot wide highway lanes turn into the usual 8-ish city lanes, and people lose their minds trying not to adjust until the last moment where they have to. It's about the road design.
 
P

pa22word

Member
hydrophilic attack said:
If you break the speed limit (except during short times in exceptional circumstances, such as when overtaking) you are a selfish asshole who value saving yourself 5 minutes over the safety of others. It's the same kind of mentality that makes people vote Republican regardless of how many people they screw over, just because they personally would get slightly lower taxes
Click to expand...

The law in a lot of places disagree. If everyone else is going 10 over and youre sitting back there yelling at the clouds about how everyone needs to stop getting in such a damned hurry, you'll get the ticket for causing dangerous traffic conditions. Least where I'm from.
 
Goro Majima

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
I think 75-80 would be fine on the interstate.

I've done a whole lot of driving for work and the biggest issue to me is how semi-trucks perform at such high speeds. I'm not sure that they can maintain the same level of control.

Also from experience, often the speed of traffic is set by one semi-truck passing another semi-truck on a two lane highway. One will be going no more than 2mph faster than the other one and hills might slow down the passing process even more. Watching this unfold all at 5-10mph below the speed limit is a special kind of hell as cars queue up for a mile back in the left lane behind the passing truck. This happens like 3-4 times on a trip between Houston and Dallas on I-45.
 
B

bloodforge

Member
Most of the highways in my area are 75mph with areas that drop to 65. 65 feels slow when you have been cruising at 75 for awhile.

I think 75 is a pretty good compromise of not too fast and not too slow for most people.
 
C

Crispy75

Member
Jazzy Geoff said:
I think a lot of that comes down to the test you have to pass to get your licence. The impression we have in the UK is that the test in the US is ridiculously easy. I've never taken it though so that may be wrong.
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A friend of mine moved to Florida having never learned to drive in the UK. The "test" was apparently little more than "can you turn a car on, put it in gear and do a lap of an empty parking lot?"

Insane that you can be allowed to throw half a ton of metal around at high speed with so little training.

But even in the UK, which has one of the most rigorous driving tests in the world, the roads are full of dangerous asshooles.

Autonomous cars can't come fast enough (pun intended).
 
P

peteykirch

Member
Crispy75 said:
A friend of mine moved to Florida having never learned to drive in the UK. The "test" was apparently little more than "can you turn a car on, put it in gear and do a lap of an empty parking lot?"

Insane that you can be allowed to throw half a ton of metal around at high speed with so little training.

But even in the UK, which has one of the most rigorous driving tests in the world, the roads are full of dangerous asshooles.

Autonomous cars can't come fast enough (pun intended).
Click to expand...

Ever see the Top Gear episode where they talk about the driving test in India? Turn the car on, drive 20 feet, congrats you can now legally drive.

The issue in the US is that there isn't a National Standard for driving, some states are much harsher in what they test for i.e. California, some are much more lax.
 
L

LeroyPantwether

Member
wienke said:
I think 75-80 would be fine on the interstate.

I've done a whole lot of driving for work and the biggest issue to me is how semi-trucks perform at such high speeds. I'm not sure that they can maintain the same level of control.

Also from experience, often the speed of traffic is set by one semi-truck passing another semi-truck on a two lane highway. One will be going no more than 2mph faster than the other one and hills might slow down the passing process even more. Watching this unfold all at 5-10mph below the speed limit is a special kind of hell as cars queue up for a mile back in the left lane behind the passing truck. This happens like 3-4 times on a trip between Houston and Dallas on I-45.
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Omg this triggered me lol. Honestly, screw semi truck drivers. I know theyre the back bone of industry or whatever but they are trash on the road. Can't wait for self driving cars to make them obsolete.


On topic, speed limits outside my city are 75 mph and that seems pretty good to me.
 
Goro Majima

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
The driving test is kinda hilarious in the US because I took that nearly 20 years ago and have moved to four different states since then. Each state has their own rules but no requirement to ever actually take the test again. So as a result, I bet there are a few laws I'm ignorant about. Plus, does anyone remember everything that they crammed for on a random test in the 9th grade?
 
S

Steejee

Member
Jazzy Geoff said:
it always blows my mind that 'jaywalking' is a crime in the US
Click to expand...

Enforcement varies a lot though.

In Boston, people will use crosswalks, but there's no hesitation anywhere to cross if there's a chance. No one ever gets ticketed for it.

In California, the cops will jump on a chance to give you a ticket for it.

Same sort of variance in speeding laws. I do 80 coming home on a highway that has a 55mph speed limit. I've been passed by state troopers (who are usually eager to give out tickets) while going that fast on that specific road. But in Washington state they put the speed limits higher *and* enforce them more strictly. Massachusetts has started upping some limits to 65, and cities have dropped the speed limit on urban streets to 25 by default. The 25 is good - going above 30 is a bit crazy on city streets anyways, and dropping the speeds by just a few MPH can save a fair number of lives in pedestrian collisions.

It really just seems like states here need to be more flexible with adjusting limits to fit the actual road, and not some textbook definition or overly general spec.
 
mashoutposse

mashoutposse

Ante Up
For safety, minimizing speed differential between vehicles is more important than minimizing absolute speed of all vehicles.

I value my time too much not to speed. Raise the limits and get strict about people moving at a pace too far off the flow of traffic, plus and minus.
 
B

BlackRainbowFT

Member
to be honest, up to a certain point, speed isn't the problem...

it's people driving too close to each other, thinking their reaction times are amazing.
 
C

ChubbyHuggs

Member
On I-84 it goes 55-65-55, but everyone drives 65-75-85. The speed limit should be raised. I've gotten two tickets driving 75 there and I was the only one in the road...
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
Tence said:
Lmao. Me too.

Fun to see this apparently happens all over the world :p
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Yup me too (in England). Fuck them. They should be restricted to their own lane except in case of some kind of obstacle on the road. Do that and enforce the new rules on middle-lane drivers not pulling over and the world would be a better place.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
Yes they are. There should be an effort to re-examine and increase where appropriate.

Speed limits as currently designed are bullshit.
 
D

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
The US is just all over the place with them since states can decide individually. Here in Iowa the interstate is 70 and most highways are 55 or 65 (4 lane). I drove to Texas last week and they have 75mph highways and interstates, and even 85 on some tollways.

I think 75 should be the norm everywhere. Smaller highways 70. Dangerous spots should have a separate limit lower based on the road type and blind spots.
 
N

_Nemo

Member
Yes. In Canada the default highway speed is like 80 Km/h lol (that's 50 mph for you Americans). Most I've seen the limit go is like 100 Km/h but that's still way too low.

What's more annoying is main roads that are 60 Km/h. That's just 10 higher than residential areas which is bullshit.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
I wish the speed limit was bumped to 70 or 75mph on the main highways in Massachusetts. It's one thing I really like about driving through southern states where the speed limit is 75... You can reasonably go 85 along with everybody else and not be in danger of getting pulled over. Most highways are 65mph in Massachusetts, with variance if the lane narrows or it's a congested area, but on open highways, it's 65.

I could see 70 being implemented on the mass pike, which is largely straight, and 6 lanes for about 40 straight miles.

City streets, school zones, etc., I'm fine with them being low. When you're in stop and go city roads, it's waste to try to get any faster than 40mph... Both in gas mileage and in the time you're trying to get somewhere. I live just off a state rt where the speed limit is 35 through most of it but 40 in some sections, but it's a thickly settled double-lane road (1 lane on each side) with traffic lights every 4 or 5 miles, parks and schools. It pisses me off when somebody is tailing me trying to go anything over 45 on the thickly settled sections, and I stick to that 45 or just casually slow down to the speed limit... Not to avoid getting a ticket, but because it's a fucking residential neighborhood and you're not getting anywhere any quicker by driving faster.
 
Z

Zutroy

Member
I live in a major city that has just recently enforced a 20mph speed limit for the vast majority of the city streets. It was such a stupid decision and a complete waste of money.

  • Most people ignore it and drive 30 anyway
  • There was already twenty zones where needed e.g. outside schools
  • People get frustrated with people now doing twenty and I've seen a lot more reckless driving because of it like people overtaking on small city roads
  • Worse for the environment as you now need to drive about in a lower gear

Absolute joke of a council!
 
P

Polioliolio

Member
Oh my god no.

Have a little understanding of human fallibility. Brains have a limit. People don't just speed, they also leave about 1 or 2 cars length between them, instead of the 5, 6, or 7 you should. If a vehicle in front slams it's breaks, you're screwed.

I drive 40 min to work every day on a very simple highway, straight shot, speed limit 70mph in most parts. I see accidents nearly every single day.

Last time I talked about speeding on GAF, some bright bulb tried to convince me that speeding is okay, because your car manufacturer sets the speedometer ahead of your actual speed. Well it's not the case in my car. GPS speed readings are the same as my speedometer. This is such a lousy excuse. First, it's not common knowledge, second, are people expected to estimate their speeds to follow the posted limit, or just follow it based off the actual reading?

Can I ask you all a simple question?
If there is a speed limit, why are you speeding? Keep in mind this is the upper LIMIT, not the minimum limit which sometimes appears as well. Also this is the LEGAL limit. Professionals set these limits for matters of safety, and you will be pulled over for going over the limit and charged a 100+ dollar fine for Breaking the Law.

Like clockwork, if I'm in a crowd of folks who are speeding, and a police officer appears on the side of the highway in a turnaround, these assholes hit their breaks to quickly try to follow the law while passing the officer... What a bunch of fucking losers.

There's a section where the 70 mph switches to 55 mph. It switches because there is a difficult section with a busy on ramp joining the two lane highway and immediately an off ramp maybe 20 feet after the first one joins. There are signs saying 'thru traffic keep left' but most people don't care. Most people also don't change their speeds. Trying to maneuver that section is stressful because people are either ignoring or intentionally breaking the law here and avoiding safety measures for changes in the highway. It's anxiety inducing.

My solution for driving safely has been to set my cruise control to the speed limit. I no longer get pulled over, which is obviously a plus, but I also feel much more safe. I don't feel like I'm competing with a bunch of assholes in a game of Mario Kart or Nascar or some shit. People who can't manage to have self control in order to stay safe, and protect the families and children in other vehicles can pass me, and they do.

By the way folks, not everyone is comfortable driving at high speeds. It's extremely dangerous to put a person uncomfortable driving at high speeds in a high speed situation. Some people drive 65 instead of 70. Some trucks drive 10mph slower, and actually that may be what they're supposed to be doing.

"Because everyone else is doing it" is not an excuse. Try to remember there's a safety reason for speed limits.
I'm expecting a baby soon. I can't tolerate people who don't have self control for safety or common sense. Get your shit together folks.

Edit: again, human fallibility + physics. I don't care what your ego tells you and how good of a driver you think you are. Do you think everyone in an accident is some poorly skilled loser? Accidents happen all the time. This ego shot sounds like some 'poor people are poor because they deserve it, but not me' crap.

If everyone is speeding, what happens when one person falls asleep, texts, look away? You're all crashing and burning.
 
Soapbox Killer

Soapbox Killer

Grand Nagus
I think they are fine, considering people do faster anyway. If you raise the speed limit to say 85 people will do 95 and that will up the mortality rate in accidents.

Unless you want the cops to "Strictly Enforce" the speed limit. I have counties that do that.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
Polioliolio said:
Last time I talked about speeding on GAF, some bright bulb tried to convince me that speeding is okay, because your car manufacturer sets the speedometer ahead of your actual speed
Click to expand...

Wait... that can't actually be true, can it? I figured this was a myth that 18-year-old Imprezza or Civic R drivers convinced themselves of.
 
A

Agent Gibbs

Member
Jazzy Geoff said:
Thanks for posting. Is it true that plod will probably not pull you for doing 70-79 on the motorway?
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it depends on the county you are in really, but nationally there is a policy that they enforce people doing 10% over the speed limit, however I know a lot of different Police forces work on 10% +2mph, the Motorway Police generally stick to this - so yeah 79 on a motorway is generally allowed

Most speed limits were all based off of stopping distances and relative safety of vehicles from the 1960s (tanks by modern standards) when most of the basis for our "modern" highway laws were devised, in reality most modern cars can stop in a fraction of the same distance and are designed to crumple to protect people, so there really should be some reassessment.
Unfortunately public perception and politics for the past 30 years has been that speed kills and that lower speeds are generally safer, and whilst true its not entirely black and white, an older car hitting you at 30 will likely inflict more damage on a pedestrian than a modern car.
Just how would you police that? newer cars allowed to travel faster? older cars made to travel slower? the general stance from government is that they will stick with the status quo until such a point as the vast majority/all cars on the road are made after 2000
 
M

Mac the KNife

Member
This is why getting slow drivers to stick to the right lane is so important to roadway safety... a car driving under the speed limit in the left (passing) lane of a highway is almost as dangerous.
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PREACH.

Freeway & highway speed limits are far too low. Surface streets & residential are spot-on.
 
F

Frankfurter

Member
Soapbox Killer said:
I think they are fine, considering people do faster anyway. If you raise the speed limit to say 85 people will do 95 and that will up the mortality rate in accidents.

Unless you want the cops to "Strictly Enforce" the speed limit. I have counties that do that.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if there's actually a particularly clear correlation between speed and fatality rates (on proper roads, that is). German roads without speed limits are pretty safe actually, although they are like the worst possible combination - lots of traffic and high speed differences (all the way from 80km/h to 200+).
 
F

flohen95

Member
_Nemo said:
Yes. In Canada the default highway speed is like 80 Km/h lol (that's 50 mph for you Americans). Most I've seen the limit go is like 100 Km/h but that's still way too low.

What's more annoying is main roads that are 60 Km/h. That's just 10 higher than residential areas which is bullshit.
Click to expand...

When I was in British Columbia in 2008, driving down Hwy 5 from Kamloops to Merritt was one of the best things, because the speed limit there is 120 kph.

Also, I didn't drive myself then, but even as a passenger, when I was back in Germany going upwards of 130 kph felt way faster than I had remembered. I suppose that's the brain adjusting. :p
 
H

hydrophilic attack

Member
Insecure drivers are much safer than bad drivers who are convinced they are good drivers. Worst of all are bad drivers who have convinced themselves they are too good to follow the law.

Doesn't matter if you have perfect control over your vehicle. Traffic rules should also be followed in order to minimize the fallout if a bad driver fucks up. If you speed because you consider yourself to be good at handling your vehicle, but don't considered the possibility that someone fuck up, then you are a bad driver. A good driver considers not only their own driving but is also always on the lookout for someone else fucking up.
 
L

Lagamorph

Member
Speed limits are based in older cars and have never really been updated.

UK motorway speed limits absolutely need raising to 80 at least. Most people are doing 75-80 anyway and as long as you're under 80mph the police generally couldn't care less
 
C

Calamari41

41 > 38
When I leave for work in the morning in Southern California, at about 5 AM, the speed of traffic on the freeway is generally about 80-90 mph and there are very very very rarely any accidents on my 40 mile route (the 405 between Orange County and Culver City, so not exactly a back road). I can think of three over the past five years. The only time there are really issues are things like stalled cars. Sometimes you'll be driving 85 and cops will pass you like you're a grandma on her way to buy some milk. I've seen significantly more instances of a cop pulling someone off the road who is holding up traffic by driving the speed limit than I've seen accidents or the aftermath of accidents.

Once rush hour hits and the overall speed of traffic drops to below the speed limit, that's when accidents start ramping up. Because everyone is changing lanes and trying to get around one another.

My experience has taught me that its safer to drive fast without changing lanes than it is to drive at any speed while having to change lanes. Accidents aren't caused by someone driving 80 mph in a straight line alongside other cars driving 80 mph in a straight line. They're caused when people change lanes. Or caused when someone is driving below the speed of traffic in the fast or carpool lane and forcing everyone to have to change lanes into each other, or slam the brakes, in order to avoid the obstacle.

People always say "Oh ho! But what are you going to do if the guy in front of you slams the brakes with all of his might??" The issue there is, why is the guy slamming his brakes? Probably because someone in front of him is the lone car on the freeway driving the speed limit. In my experience I would put money down on it being a vanpool driver cutting across all lanes at 60 mph while everyone around him is cruising at 80.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
If people were actually good drivers, you wouldn't have maniacs trying to go 30 over weaving through traffic, and you wouldn't have people doing 5 under sitting in the passing lane. Everyone on the Jersey Turnpike ignores the "left lane for passing only" signs that are spaced every few miles, and it makes that stretch a PITA.

Let's re-evaluate speed limits when we've replaced everyone with driverless cars.
 
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